Support NeoGAF

[Gentle Rodriguez]

They should add some mechanics to encourage good support play. Give bonus gold/exp when enemy heroes are killed in range of a ward etc...

A lot of people that think they play a good support do not play a good support, there's a lot of things to take into account and it's impossible for the game to figure out whether you played a good support or not.

What if your mid got ganked and you didn't have a tp to save him?
What if you decided to buy 50 sentries instead of one gem to deal with an invis hero?
What if you place wards in places where they're not needed at that point in the game?

Also I'm not a good support, I'm just saying.

 

[twobear]

to whoever asked the other day what kind of state reborn is in atm;

 

[Pratfall]

they should make every hero get the same amoutn of gold and xp from everything and they should all have gap closers.

 

[GregLombardi]

No attacks, just wondering why you think that? Or what your alternative would be?

"Poor" supports are not an inherent design in the game. It's a player/team decision to funnel the experience and gold that 4th and/or 5th player would receive to other positions that can potentially take advantage of it more.

I struggle greatly with this, as DOTA / the genre are one of my favorite games of all time. The fact that certain positions can take advantage of gameplay better than others is, IMO, an inherent problem. I don't have a great solution other than to basically make the carry role a less winning role, or change it significantly. I do feel that every hero should have the chance to make a tangible difference in the outcome simply through unrefined gameplay.

It's funny, I remember games in DOTA 1 where a Veno or a Pudge basically ended a game for the other team and the "carries" on the team shared relevance from game to game in probably a 30-50% support 70-50% carry split. I'd like to return there, and I have seen some of that in the latest patch. But the hive mind of funnel all gold / experience to the carry is REALLY unfun for supports. Again, if my only role is to place wards and use my abilities / spells when the carries say I can, why am I even playing the game? Some games turn out like that.

Its a really tough problem no matter what. I could also see fixing it through items that are support only, or something, or assigning items to specific roles that can't be used by carries but are super powerful. This is just my arm-chair game designing though, and I realize the implications are far larger than I can capture here.

 

[NormalFish]

OD suport is basically just SD but shittier

 

[Hupsel]

http://blog.dota2.com/amazingdota2announcementpleaseclickme

 

[inkls]

http://blog.dota2.com/amazingdota2announcementpleaseclickme

don't trust his links huehuehue

also dendi first day in seattle

 

[G.ZZZ]

As much as i am a supporter of socialism in real life, dota is another thing and has to be realized in terms of roles.

Supports already win games. It's only that people don't really realize it. But when VG wrecked, it wasn't rotk or Sylar, it was Fenrir and Fy that did it. EG isn't winning on the back of fear, but of Aui and Universe. Arteezy in a team without good supports to create enough space for him wouldn't farm nowhere as fast. I agree there could be some more help for supports (mostly quality of life like more slots for sentries/obs/dusts/scrolls as i hate playing against invis as a supp etc...), but the game is already promoting good supports a lot, people just need to realize it more.

If you're finding urself to be only feeding with supports and not having a real impact, i'm sorry to say you are just not good at it. Try another role or different heroes. A good Earthshaker will never feel useless in a game no matter how underfarmed he is. A good tree basically kill the early game pace and make mid and offlane life much easier, while setting up big teamfights with mass invisibility in the mid-lategame. A good pugna support make teamfights under towers and int cores life impossible, while also being a decent counter to physical cores.

Just my 2c as a primarily support player.

This user solo MMR is 5332

 

[Shuggananas]

TA wins mid vs huskar, calls him noob
10 minutes later this happens

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1653397286

doom can't even into pressing R despite buying a blink. only time he did he doomed CM instead of omni
SS maxing shackles over hex. also kept ulting for kills he wouldn't get rather than save them for towers or actual big fights
fuck that shit man
of course doom and TA are a stack

next game we're 1:40 in the game and bane is on a killing spree getting a double kill in his safe lane against our WK/abaddon hard

 

[Haly]

The idea of "good support" is so nebulous that as I grow more experienced with the role, I become less sure as to what it actually entails other than doing the right thing at the right time and bootstrapping your team to victory.

Any automated system by which people are rewarded for doing "support-y things" is just going to teach them bad habits because you can't automate such a vague feeling.

 

[KingKong]

they should make every hero get the same amoutn of gold and xp from everything and they should all have gap closers.

Two words: skill shots

 

[Hylian7]

If you're finding urself to be only feeding with supports and not having a real impact, i'm sorry to say you are just not good at it.

I mean, seriously? No shit sherlock...

Why do you think pub games are usually a solo support that has to try to juggle everything, or there is the common, yet true, trope of teams ending up with too many heroes that can't really be played as support.

I try to avoid support, only playing it when the team absolutely needs it. I find it infuriating, frustrating, and not fun at all. I'm trying to buy all the wards, my wards get dewarded, the team says "WE HAVE NO WARDS WHERE IS OUR SUPPORT", I place the wards in unusual spots, they get dewarded there too, Night Stalker ults, Mirana ults, I get two shotted by SF because I can't see shit and I'm trying to get vision on the map for us to prevent that from happening. Then the mid wonders why I didn't give him tangos, because I want to be able to trade hits with the offlaner and have that extra regen. If I did give him the tangos, the offlaner is winning that trade much sooner than I would.

Support is mostly a binary skill, either you can do it or not, sadly. There's not much variance in skill for it other than just "levels" of support so to speak, and these come down to things like just knowing what your teammates will do, becuase you have played with them a ton before and know what to expect.

 

[bbd23]

whats your top 6 like lads for TI
1. EG
2. Secret
3.LGD
4.VICI
5.CLOWN9
6.Empire

 

[inkls]

1. Secret
2. EG
3. C9
4. VG
5. Na'Vi
6. Complexity (hue)

I don't think its accurate, but I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised

 

[NormalFish]

China

Empire

Scrub westerners

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

1. Secret
2. Vici
3. EG
4. LGD
5. C9
6. Empire/VP/IG

I'm so scared of listing either empire or VP since they're so damn inconsistent, I can see Empire getting as high as second place.

 

[Haly]

1/2) Secret/EG
3) One of the Chinese teams
4+) Who even cares? This is the International of father vs. son. Of old veterans and young prodigies. Of M I N D G A M E S between some of the best drafters and best supports in the scene.

 

[Monochromaticx]

1-VG

2-Secret
3-EG
4-IG
5-C9
6-Empire

 

[Deleted member 77995]

I mean, seriously? No shit sherlock...

Why do you think pub games are usually a solo support that has to try to juggle everything, or there is the common, yet true, trope of teams ending up with too many heroes that can't really be played as support.

I try to avoid support, only playing it when the team absolutely needs it. I find it infuriating, frustrating, and not fun at all. I'm trying to buy all the wards, my wards get dewarded, the team says "WE HAVE NO WARDS WHERE IS OUR SUPPORT", I place the wards in unusual spots, they get dewarded there too, Night Stalker ults, Mirana ults, I get two shotted by SF because I can't see shit and I'm trying to get vision on the map for us to prevent that from happening. Then the mid wonders why I didn't give him tangos, because I want to be able to trade hits with the offlaner and have that extra regen. If I did give him the tangos, the offlaner is winning that trade much sooner than I would.

Support is mostly a binary skill, either you can do it or not, sadly. There's not much variance in skill for it other than just "levels" of support so to speak, and these come down to things like just knowing what your teammates will do, becuase you have played with them a ton before and know what to expect.

buy two tangoes

 

[Hylian7]

buy two tangoes

What is courier, wards, sentries, and smoke?

 

[Shuggananas]

what is 2 supports

 

[Hylian7]

what is 2 supports

What are pub games

 

[JC Sera]

Support is mostly a binary skill, either you can do it or not, sadly. There's not much variance in skill for it other than just "levels" of support so to speak, and these come down to things like just knowing what your teammates will do, becuase you have played with them a ton before and know what to expect.

I wouldn't say that, there is about at least 3 different flavours of support, and you can be good at one but shit at the others.

edit: Actually this guide explains the three types really well

What are pub games

Play on Aus servers, just as likely to get no carries as no supports

 

[KingKong]

bold prediction: Newbee and NaVi will do much better than people expect (like top 8)

 

[sixghost]

What is courier, wards, sentries, and smoke?

If you are the only support you probably shouldn't be buying a smoke at the start.

You also don't need sentries every single game. You can save 150g at the beginning and if the camp is blocked, buy the sents.

Also, every time I look at your dotabuff your recent games are like 95% mid or hard carry. It's not some innate skill people have, you need to practice it.

 

[kionedrik]

My predictions right now are:

1- Secret
2- EG
3- VG
4- VP
5- iG
6- C9

I'm debating a lot between the order of the top 3 but I'm pretty sure those will be the top 3 teams.
I'm also not sure about VP or Empire or just put iG in #4 slot...

to whoever asked the other day what kind of state reborn is in atm;

At least it's tracking the wins on the compendium....

 

[Cellbomber]

to whoever asked the other day what kind of state reborn is in atm;

I saw some very strange graphical issues going on with my first match. If i used dagger on weaver when he went invisible it gave a strange static looking effect that didn't seem normal. Several things just don't feel right with it and it's strange to tie compendium points with it. I'll play unranked with it for the points though.

 

[Shuggananas]

carrying games as pocket strat jungle zeus

this game's stupid as fuck no matter what you do the outcome is almost always a coinflip

 

[G-Unit]

Calling it, dendi wins it....(I mean Na'vi)

Spoiler

I hope Burning wins it

I consider myself a good support, honestly I feel like I can find some farm and still have good warding. If anything I need to work on rotations.

Now, it really pisses me off when give my heart out to support and clearly teammates don't check the map, or they just don't work towards the impact I expect their role to have. For example, heavy farmers with no TPS, and when they are pushing a lane as four, and our carry does not see this and stick it to jungle, when I believe he should be pushing another lane safely.

 

[Kade]

Supporting is hard. It's a role I mostly play since I'm that guy that waits for everyone to pick their hero and then picks based on what's missing and needed in a bracket where everyone wants to be Dendi and I'm still junk at it. I used get very worried and get this weird anxiety and feeling of inadequacy from being underlevelled and farmed but I stopped worrying about any numbers that show up on the scoreboard and started worrying about what the map looked like for my team instead. I feel like I've gotten better in the past few months, thanks in part to IHL2 and playing with some great and helpful people.

This user's Solo MMR is: 2433

 

[Smithy C]

Do people really think C9 will do that good? I don't have them anywhere near my top 6...

 

[Shuggananas]

fata will carry them for a few games then ee will choke/throw at a crucial point and they'll finish 7-8

 

[Pratfall]

good supporting is all about patience and preparation. If you can't wait in the trees for 30 seconds for the right opportunity and if you can't predict the next objective your team will take and ward accordingly, the role aint for you.

 

[Visualante2]

To me I see support like playing Engineer in TF2, you're orchestrating the flow of the battle. It's one of my favourite roles but when I'm solo support it blows hard, I resent carries who take my share of the farm and feed it away.

People naturally want to fight where there is vision, and you're the one co-ordinating that. It's not about predicting, you're deciding what the next objective is.

 

[Strider]

1. Secret
2. VG
3. EG
4. IG
5. LGD
6. C9

Also I bought Purity Ring tickets last night. Anyone here seen them live?

 

[Shorty11857]

1. Secret
2. EG
3. VG
4. IG
5/6. C9 and LGD

Is what I'm going for

 

[JC Sera]

I'm curious, is there anyone here that played healer roles in MMORPGS/FPS before they started playing MOBAs, and got into support, or went fuck this role and chose something different to main?

Spoiler

This is probably more of a relevant question for the hots crew

 

[Glass Shark]

I don't know what it is lately, but I've been getting more and more people in pub matches who actually call support at the beginning, it's really crazy

I typically play support but I have been trying out more carries for this reason

 

[TUSR]

I'm curious, is there anyone here that played healer roles in MMORPGS/FPS before they started playing MOBAs, and got into support, or went fuck this role and chose something different to main?

Spoiler

This is probably more of a relevant question for the hots crew

i was my guilds main tank, and when burning crusade came out i switched to healing.

did pvp as both.

i play all positions.

 

[sleverfunk]

1.Secret
2.EG
3.VG
4.LGD
5.IG
6.C9

Might change it though.

 

[SteveWinwood]

the frequency of steam updates is absolutely infuriating

are you in the beta? you'll get like one a day there

 

[Demoli]

VG was sandbagging and is gonna take it all

I expect C9 to score higher than EG and Secret.

IG is gonna be up high as well.

Empire is not gonna choke for once.

Navi are gonna reach further than expected on the back of Sonneiko's ungodly support play.


Good couple of matches today, thinking about getting back to ranked but i honestly can't be arsed to it, would much rather play with friends for fun rather than alone for some extra/lesser numbers on my score.

 

[Chris R]

I'm curious, is there anyone here that played healer roles in MMORPGS/FPS before they started playing MOBAs, and got into support, or went fuck this role and chose something different to main?

Spoiler

This is probably more of a relevant question for the hots crew

I raided Vanilla WoW as a Shaman in a Horde guild (not server first, but top 5).

 

[NormalFish]

I'm curious, is there anyone here that played healer roles in MMORPGS/FPS before they started playing MOBAs, and got into support, or went fuck this role and chose something different to main?

Spoiler

This is probably more of a relevant question for the hots crew

Mained resto druid. also played holy pally.

when I started playing league I mained support, but I never prefered the super hard supports (leona > sona). gradually moved to carries.

Same thing in dota. I liked the stronger bully supports, but I pretty quickly decided I'd rather play core. Support is way too much pressure in soloq.

That said, I don't mind supporting in stacks, though I find the current support role very boring.

 

[rakkadakka]

EQ1 Monk

Only timed I healed was when a bugged robe let you cast infinite complete heals.

 

[Glass Shark]

dat Reborn MMR spread

 

[Kade]

I didn't know MMR went that low.

 

[Cellbomber]

I didn't know MMR went that low.

If they go full tilt they may hit 0. I wonder if a negative is possible?

 

[Glass Shark]

I've played with someone who had 32 MMR.

 

[Drkirby]

If they go full tilt they may hit 0. I wonder if a negative is possible?

No, 1 is the lowest MMR. I'm pretty sure everything below 100 is just full of people who try to lose.