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[Hylian7]

120 mana, which is a lot for him, and a very low HP regen. It's quite underwhelming even for passive while jungling/laning.

After checking the wiki I must admit I was wrong. The animation and sound are only visible to allies. Still that doesn't change the fact that you can easily play around it, you just need to think before acting.

That's what I thought (the animation thing), but I will double check in client later.

It still is extremely difficult to play around. You can think before acting but you have no idea if he started Dark Pact or not. This turns all of that to a game of whack a mole on the highest difficulty.

It's super obvious.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=GiiQWDQeJZw

Proven wrong above. That only plays for allies and that video is from Slark's team's perspective.

 

[Spookie]

I think bulldog just came live on stream D:

 

[kionedrik]

That's what I thought (the animation thing), but I will double check in client later.

It still is extremely difficult to play around. You can think before acting but you have no idea if he started Dark Pact or not. This turns all of that to a game of whack a mole on the highest difficulty.

Or you can bait him to use it.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Who watches admiral bulldog?

 

[Cellbomber]

Pick Elder Titan to counter Slark.

 

[Haly]

It's a mindgames thing, like with Nyx.

 

[Deleted member 77995]

https://youtu.be/N0U7_74DIUI

 

[G.ZZZ]

I think Slark is balanced.

Slark sux.

Spoiler

He's okay tbh. Nerf BS plz

 

[Hylian7]

Or you can bait him to use it.

While you animation cancel and he slips into fog, regens a good chunk of health, then re-engages you and kills 3 people. This is almost every Slark chase ever.

 

[Haly]

Don't chase him into fog. It's like BB.

 

[NormalFish]

Or you can bait him to use it.

Yeah, especially against pub slarks, I don't think dark pact is all that good if you know what you're doing.

Say, for example, you're playing lion. Storm works as well, but zip is a bit easier to react to than blink-hex. You just sit in blink/zip range when he's farming a wave and wait for the dark pact animation to go off. Additionally, both of those heroes have a way to deal lots of damage to him without their CC, while still being even more threatening with their CC, so if they jump a slark with dark pact, the slark's reaction will either be to immediately dark pact or ult, and you can abuse that.

Generally a Slark will, unless he's suicidal, Pact on the moment of engage, in which you case you just back off and wait for it to pop. If you've survived long enough to see that he didn't pop it, then you stun him as usual. After that it becomes a guessing game like in Death Note.

Yeah, pretty much. No pub slark is going to be able to deliberately dark pact something mid-animation unless it's something with a huge animation (earth shaker fissure perhaps) or they're playing in the server room.

Which means, hylian, animation cancelling or whatever isn't how you bait a slark.

 

[Haly]

Generally a Slark will, unless he's suicidal, Pact on the moment of engage, in which you case you just back off and wait for it to pop. If you've survived long enough to see that he didn't pop it, then you stun him as usual. After that it becomes a guessing game like Death Note. Some players will never change their pattern. Other players will try to anticipate you.

 

[Hylian7]

Pick Elder Titan to counter Slark.

I'm not seeing the counter in that one, especially basically sacrificing a spot on your team for dead weight. What is your idea behind that one?

It's a mindgames thing, like with Nyx.

Nyx is straight forward though. You bring detection, watch for the spike (or maybe cast anyway to get the stun on him at your teammates can pick it up, depending on your own hero, the spell, HP, etc). Slark is completely different and much more smoke in mirrors. You always think you got him but never do, then he's suddenly 20/0 after all the failed attempts at ganking him.

 

[Haly]

A good Nyx will spike on reflex, they're not going to walk around with spike up and hope you finger them.

It comes down to how well you can bait the carapace or how much discipline he has in keeping his finger off the carapace button.

 

[Cellbomber]

Was joking with the elder titan suggestion. I fall into the category that slark is annoying. He can be dealt with and I've been in matches where a farmed up spark lost; however he needs something done about his escape options. It seems he can just escape death to easily.

 

[kionedrik]

While you animation cancel and he slips into fog, regens a good chunk of health, then re-engages you and kills 3 people. This is almost every Slark chase ever.

That was not what I meant by baiting DP. Remember it is as much a defensive ability as an offensive one. Pick a situation and make him use it.

Unless you have an aghs KotL during daytime or an aghs Balanar during nighttime, with gem, chasing Slark is a losing game.

You're also forgetting there's a popular ~2.5k item that a lot of heroes, including supports, buy that can completely render Slark combo useless while at the same time forcing him to DP.

 

[twobear]

Smoke AND mirrors

 

[NormalFish]

Was joking with the elder titan suggestion. I fall into the category that slark is annoying. He can be dealt with and I've been in matches where a farmed up spark lost; however he needs something done about his escape options. It seems he can just escape death to easily.

I think it's more like, "Slark has lots of counterplay, but that counterplay is difficult to execute" hence his pubstomper status.

That was not what I meant by baiting DP. Remember it is as much a defensive ability as an offensive one. Pick a situation and make him use it.

Unless you have an aghs KotL during daytime or an aghs Balanar during nighttime, with gem, chasing Slark is a losing game.

You're also forgetting there's a popular 2k item that a lot of heroes, including supports, buy that can completely render Slark combo useless while at the same time forcing him to DP.

Yup. Like I said, you can make a slark dark pact easier than you can make a dog sit

 

[Hupsel]

Okay who we talking about here come out come out whoever you are

 

[Hylian7]

A good Nyx will spike on reflex, they're not going to walk around with spike up and hope you finger them.

It comes down to how well you can bait the carapace or how much discipline he has in keeping his finger off the carapace button.

But it's a very different beast though. If you're chasing a Nyx, chances are he probably already used Vendetta, so that is his other escape option gone. He is down to spike, which some people can say Fuck it and BKB. Slark is always going to slip away. You don't want to re-engage a Slark, but yet how do you stop a carry: kill him.

 

[TUSR]

killing heroes wins games

most of the time

 

[NormalFish]

But it's a very different beast though. If you're chasing a Nyx, chances are he probably already used Vendetta, so that is his other escape option gone. He is down to spike, which some people can say Fuck it and BKB. Slark is always going to slip away. You don't want to re-engage a Slark, but yet how do you stop a carry: kill him.

You're really overestimating Slark. Unless he's crazy fucking fed and 6 slotted at 35 minutes or something, he's not all that hard to kill with some AoE and CC. That said, if you've got a 5 man lineup and your only stuns are from AA and Centaur, yeah you're pretty fucked.

 

[Hylian7]

killing heroes wins games

most of the time

It's just Dota 101: You gank the carry to stop them from getting big. The same principle applies to Slark but it just turns into a rigged whack a mole game at a carnival where you are never winning that stuffed fish (pun intended)

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Slark is certainly not weak but he sure has weaknesses. Don't think he needs to be touched atm honestly.

 

[gai_shain]

Slark is strong right now, but certainly not as OP as you make him seem here

 

[Haly]

Kill him before 6.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

It's just Dota 101: You gank the carry to stop them from getting big. The same principle applies to Slark but it just turns into a rigged whack a mole game at a carnival where you are never winning that stuffed fish (pun intended)

You never want to be chasing a Slark but you act like that's an inevitability. Long duration stuns and silences(especially on blink initiators so he doesn't mash Q) fuck him hard and reduce his ability to run away. If you don't have either, then yeah he's going to fuck you over, but a lot of carries will fuck you over if you don't have either.

 

[Hylian7]

Kill him before 6.

If you can get your whole team on board, sure, but given that you will likely have 6-dependent heroes on your team, it usually just ends in a triple kill for him as people try to dive him.

You never want to be chasing a Slark but you act like that's an inevitability. Long duration stuns and silences(especially on blink initiators so he doesn't mash Q) fuck him hard and reduce his ability to run away. If you don't have either, then yeah he's going to fuck you over, but a lot of carries will fuck you over if you don't have either.

Of course it's an inevitability. Unless you have Lina and Lion both ult him at once, you bet he will put up a chase.

 

[twobear]

Does dark pact purge slardar ult

 

[Deleted member 77995]

yes

 

[SteveWinwood]

Does dark pact purge slardar ult

yep

heavens halbard is a good counter though he cant purge that and he kind of needs to be right clicking people a lot

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Does dark pact purge slardar ult

Yes

 

[Deleted member 77995]

if you really want to learn how to deal with annoying cores then play support. teamwork is a must + you will be forced to always build something you initially wouldn't to stay alive

 

[twobear]

Hypothetically Phoenix should be a good slark counter too

 

[Haly]

If you can get your whole team on board, sure, but given that you will likely have 6-dependent heroes on your team, it usually just ends in a triple kill for him as people try to dive him.

We're doing this song and dance again where I make a suggestion and you counter with "well what if it doesn't work out and he gets fed"?

You're creating a hypothetical where Slark is effectively untouchable and can get away from everything scott-free and no amount of planning or coordination can take him down because it'll fail (for whatever reason) and then make him stronger.

Like, what's even the point?

Slark has a 50% win rate on Dotabuff. Think about why that is.

 

[Madn]

I just had a great game with a team of russians. It was in a Russian server as i didn't want it to take forever to find a match in Reborn, so everyone was speaking in russian, but as soon as i asked something in english they started using english or pings.
We had a difficult start but no-one flamed and we proceded to destroy the enemy team.
My eyes are now open. I believe in the Dota 2 community again

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1657761363

Also i have 100% win rate in Reborn

This user MMR: need 10 more games to calibrate

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

Of course it's an inevitability. Unless you have Lina and Lion both ult him at once, you bet he will put up a chase.

You're either ganking him after he's already super farmed or you're vastly overestimating how much HP a Slark has.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Hypothetically Phoenix should be a good slark counter too

Not sure how he would counter him. Phoenix is good versus most melee heroes (sans Troll, Bloodseeker and Riki I think) and Slark can't really kill him at any point in the game but to be a legit counter, you need lockdown which Phoenix doesn't provide.

 

[SteveWinwood]

i always see a bird with three eyes

what are the circles

like hair rolls?

 

[twobear]

Not sure how he would counter him. Phoenix is good versus most melee heroes (sans Troll and Riki I think) and Slark can't really kill him at any point in the game but to be a legit counter, you need lockdown which Phoenix doesn't provide.

you get a bit of lockdown from her ult and his fire birds slows his attack speed so he can't steal agi

 

[Imp the Dimp]

you get a bit of lockdown from his ult and his fire birds slows his attack speed so he can't steal agi

Yeah, he's good. Not a counter however. Slark can't feed off of Phoenix so that's definitely a plus.

 

[twobear]

Yeah, he's good. Not a counter however. Slark can't feed off of Phoenix so that's definitely a plus.

Fair enough

 

[SilentRacoon]

I'm not seeing the counter in that one, especially basically sacrificing a spot on your team for dead weight. What is your idea behind that one?

Porbably just because of the long stun, but I think Silencer counters him just fine, bait his dark pact with curse then cast last word on him. Also bloodseeker is always a good pick against him to secure any failed ganks against him, he won't get the speed or hp regen when affected by thirst.

 

[Hylian7]

We're doing this song and dance again where I make a suggestion and you counter with "well what if it doesn't work out and he gets fed"?

You're creating a hypothetical where Slark is effectively untouchable and can get away from everything scott-free and no amount of planning or coordination can take him down because it'll fail (for whatever reason) and then make him stronger.

Like, what's even the point?

Slark has a 50% win rate on Dotabuff. Think about why that is.

It rarely ever does work out, the only reason his winrate is at 50% is because about that many players know how to play the hero, plus X factors of how individual games go.

Also if you are actually using pub winrates as a power metric, remember Earth Spirit's winrate had always been super low, even in 6.79 (where Grip = stun).

HH sounds like a good idea, but getting there is always an uphill battle for sure.

 

[SteveWinwood]

slark is not a complicated hero

i dont think you can use the earth spirit/invoker no one knows how to play them properly thats why the winrate sucks argument for him

 

[gai_shain]

It rarely ever does work out, the only reason his winrate is at 50% is because about that many players know how to play the hero, plus X factors of how individual games go.

Also if you are actually using pub winrates as a power metric, remember Earth Spirit's winrate had always been super low, even in 6.79 (where Grip = stun).

HH sounds like a good idea, but getting there is always an uphill battle for sure.

So what you are saying is, a good player can win games on a hero he is good with?

 

[Hylian7]

So what you are saying is, a good player can win games on a hero he is good with?

Let me rephrase that: there are tons of bad Slarks out there. Just because the hero isn't Earth Spirit and doesn't have an 80% winrate doesn't mean he doesn't need a nerf.

 

[twobear]

slark doesn't need a nerf

 

[NormalFish]

Of course it's an inevitability. Unless you have Lina and Lion both ult him at once, you bet he will put up a chase.

You have played this game enough to know you don't need a 5 man wipe to win games. If slark runs away, kill his team and hold your CC for if he comes back. If he reengages, stagger your CC so that he can't dark pact it all, and he's an easy kill.
**
Honestly all I've learned from this conversation is you want to play the way slark wants you to play.

 

[Monochromaticx]

slark is fine