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Dota 2 |OT11| $400 of Support and Passion
- Thread starter TUSR
- Start date
SteveWinwood
Member
LiS Ep.4 on Tuesday.
i really need to start that
And you're absolutely wrong and full of shit about it.
What does a 5 man wipe have to do with any of this? If a Slark can just eat up supports and run within 500 units of your team, your team isn't wiped but still significantly weakened.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
This happens every time you have a tough match with a hero. Revisit this topic another time because right now you're ignoring all the counters/gameplay advice people are giving to you and insisting he's OP/he gets away/team can't pull it off.
Slark wins: He is OP and the player knows how to bring it out
Slark loses: The player is bad and can't play Slark
Do you see the circular logic here? He's not even in the same ballpark as Earth Spirit, who had a very real barrier to execution that was holding back his pub win rate, but a "true" win rate that still keeps him out of CM.
I didn't want to do this but this is Slark's 6.84 competitive win rate from DatDota.
Win %: 0.413
And now you're going to tell me pro games are not like pub games where they're actually coordinated and can keep him down, even against pro players who know how to Slark.
There is no recourse here.
Slark loses: The player is bad and can't play Slark
Do you see the circular logic here? He's not even in the same ballpark as Earth Spirit, who had a very real barrier to execution that was holding back his pub win rate, but a "true" win rate that still keeps him out of CM.
I didn't want to do this but this is Slark's 6.84 competitive win rate from DatDota.
Win %: 0.413
And now you're going to tell me pro games are not like pub games where they're actually coordinated and can keep him down, even against pro players who know how to Slark.
There is no recourse here.
I haven't ignored anything and you are a liar and delusional if you believe that. Even when a hero is actually OP (6.83 Troll for example), people still give advice for dealing with him. It helps, but usually isn't always going to work.
sleverfunk
Member
i think slark is fine. The one who needs nerfing is leshrac. His fucking lightning is just ughhh.
And just because you can't deal with him doesn't mean he needs a nerf.
SteveWinwood
Member
make his ult a mini bash
Imp the Dimp
Member
Yeah, interestingly most of the recent OP heroes were too strong in lane and not punishable early and he along with Bloodseeker fits that exact bill too. Sniper and Troll were lane monsters as well.
so the hero has a 50% win rate...
it's lower than that in competitive games...
the best slark players in the world have better win rates with other heroes...
how does any of this say, 'the hero needs a nerf' rather than, 'i need to learn how to deal with this hero'?
it's lower than that in competitive games...
the best slark players in the world have better win rates with other heroes...
how does any of this say, 'the hero needs a nerf' rather than, 'i need to learn how to deal with this hero'?
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
slark is nowhere near that level.
Lots of fucking people can't deal with him. He needs at the very least a slap on the wrist, an animation for DP and CD increase on SD would be great.
Also since we are pulling Datdota numbers Huskar has a 42% winrate. And you guys said Huskar was strong.
SteveWinwood
Member
i think at the very least you should go for a walk and calm down or something for reals
NormalFish
Banned
lol ok.
why would you chase slark, then? If slark jumps on your supports and you're there, why don't you just blow CC on him? slark doesn't have burst damage without dark pact, so you know it's down. If slark is picking off heroes in your back line during a team fight, then turn around and smack him. I don't understand why this is so confusing.
If slark is around = blow him up
If slark is not around = hold your CC and play like he doesn't exist
SilentRacoon
Member
If he can go and kill anyone that easily it's because the teamwork isn't strong enough to avoid such scenario, slark doesn't get picked as much in the pro scene for a reason, he can get countered by a lot of heroes and doesn't provide a whole lot in a teamfight against a well coordinated team.
In this week's Fails of the Week, there was a play where a Lesh chased someone, used Lightning as they TP'd to the other side of the map...and it went ALL THE WAY ACROSS AND KILLED A TEAMMATE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP THAT WAS LOW. Fuck lightning, it needs a nerf yesterday.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Relax dude. Just how does it hurt your feelings so much to be proven wrong on the fucking internet?
Do you even read? He eats up a support, you try to chase him, he gets away. Play like he doesn't exist? Good luck farming, ever.
Monochromaticx
Member
Slark is fine. He feels bullshit because he is great at snowballing if there are no counters on the enemy team like stuns and shit or if the enemy team is stupid.
Troll could have been played by anyone during his reign and win even after not having a great start.
Try the advice we gave in the last 2-3 pages instead of dismissing everything instantly without even trying it any of it.
P.S. we all played vs a good slark not just you.
Troll could have been played by anyone during his reign and win even after not having a great start.
Try the advice we gave in the last 2-3 pages instead of dismissing everything instantly without even trying it any of it.
P.S. we all played vs a good slark not just you.
sleverfunk
Member
yeah his laning is inxredibly strong thanks too his 3rd spell. i think he needs just little tweaks.
fuck mobile
TRY FUCKING READING FOR ONCE, JESUS CHEST.
I have not dismissed anything. You are delusional if you think I have.
lightning isn't just a good laning spell, it's also ridiculously good in early teamfights; a couple of casts does more damage than a lot of early teamfight damage ults
you've theorycrafted your way out of a lot of the things that people are saying. the data shows that slark is not unbeatable and at high levels has a lower WR than other heroes. he's eminently beatable.
you've theorycrafted your way out of a lot of the things that people are saying. the data shows that slark is not unbeatable and at high levels has a lower WR than other heroes. he's eminently beatable.
"Lots" doesn't tell me anything.
There's 11 million people playing dota 2 monthly and with most of them being concentrated in the lower brackets there's lots of people that are unable to deal with a lot of stuff that needs no nerfing and lots of them that can't even handle very basic situations.
Basically, argumentum ad populum doesn't fly, really.
That's a bug that happens on other stuff as well, not exactly Leshrac exclusive.
Lightning is good no matter the time of the match, being able to slow consistently the entire enemy lineup (because that's basically how it turns out considering that the creepwave is gonna get annihilated in a couple seconds with all the AoE Leshrac shits out) is just amazing.
In the laning phase, however, it's just silly.
Most of it is tongue-in-cheek. At least I think so, anyway.
I think you want him to be nerfed because he's frustrating to play against if he goes online, which I understand, but it's a big "if". That's what your proposal for Pact says to me. You don't care about the numbers, or the effectiveness, or its versatility. What you care about the most is invisible information that has to be inferred or guessed and you just don't want to do that.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
sleverfunk
Member
allthis slark talk reminded me of a game earlier. allied slark was snowballing. He had abysal skadi sb treads about 25-30 mins in the game but we still lost. He fed about 3 then was having a hard time killing supports because sk had fs and silencer went for glimmer and ghost scepter.
What do you mean "if" he goes online? He's already doing a lot in any decent dual or trilane. Yeah, it is frustrating to play against that ambiguous bullshit. They also need to fix the BoTs ring bug, as that shit affects gameplay. I had a teammate die at a critical point because they saw the BoTs ring near our tax and assumed it was one of us with BoTs, but nope, it was the enemy Tinker, they died and we lost the rax.
NormalFish
Banned
Despite my best judgement, yes I have read every single one of your posts.
How is he eating those supports? Blink or Lothars in -> pounce/dark pact -> run/ult away. This is right, isn't it? I don't see how else it would happen.
If this is the case, then you need to just blow him the fuck up. You're acting like it takes you 10 seconds to respond to anything slark does. If you're so spread out that you can't react to slark picking off a support, then you fucked up. If you've used all your abilities and don't have anything to use on slark, then you fucked up. If you let slark waddle away while you have vision of him, you fucked up.
I can go on for days about this, but that's really not the point. He isn't some invincible hero, he's actually super fucking squishy, even with a skadi.
Seeing as I've explained the same thing 3 or 4 times now, I'm not so sure.
Last time I'm responding. My judgement's winning out, I fear.
Glass Shark
Banned
Slark is a pubstomp hero, he's absolutely fine if you actually have teamwork and develop a strategy to take him on
like, if we are going to debate OP heroes then yeah, we need to be talking about Lesh and a few others
Hylian, with how calm and "stay positive!" you try to be about everything, this is a weird thing to get hung up on
like, if we are going to debate OP heroes then yeah, we need to be talking about Lesh and a few others
Hylian, with how calm and "stay positive!" you try to be about everything, this is a weird thing to get hung up on
Lemon Crest
Member
I'm playing reborn trying to get 15 wins and the people playing are like x100 times more toxic than normal doto players.
It allows me to play Tusk and Lina guilt free.
It allows me to play Tusk and Lina guilt free.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Monochromaticx
Member
Pretty sure there are 5838953 versions of this post in the last 3 pages and somehow we don't know how to read.
Play slark for yourself hylian
Omega Kirby
Member
Last time I played was in 2013, back when drow ranger was considered op XD.
I'm aware there have been many changes. How are these heroes In today's meta?
Nyx assassin
Spectre
Morphling
Lich
Slark
And enigma?
I'm aware there have been many changes. How are these heroes In today's meta?
Nyx assassin
Spectre
Morphling
Lich
Slark
And enigma?
Glass Shark
Banned
Yeah but all you guys are like 7k MMR gods at this game and I'm sitting here sub 2k and even I know he's not OP, so that's what I'm saying
Besides Slark, I hardly ever see any of the others getting played in my skill bracket. In almost 1000 games I've only played 5 total against Morph
Besides Slark, I hardly ever see any of the others getting played in my skill bracket. In almost 1000 games I've only played 5 total against Morph
I lost to Pudge once 1v1 in safelane as Slark. And once again 2v1 vs Huskar.
That just comes down to matchup. Slark works in some lanes against some people and don't do well in others. And if you deny him farm then he's pretty jank. Most of the Slarks I've seen that lose are ones that lose the laning phase because, honestly, it's not very strong. Not unless the stars align.
That just comes down to matchup. Slark works in some lanes against some people and don't do well in others. And if you deny him farm then he's pretty jank. Most of the Slarks I've seen that lose are ones that lose the laning phase because, honestly, it's not very strong. Not unless the stars align.
Oh stop with the reductive bullshit. You think I'm fucking stupid or something?
I've been saying that blowing him up usually is easier said than done unless your team is Lion, Lina, Timbersaw, and QoP. I have seen it so many times.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
then play slark
Glass Shark
Banned
but he is "low skill" and doesn't give you enough e-peen, you need to Spectre for that
Monochromaticx
Member
Nyx assassin - meh
Spectre - dont know
Morphling - bad imo
Lich - bad
Slark - JUST FINE
And enigma - good
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
I'd go back in assuming nothing. So many new heroes, items, mechanic changes, etc.
SteveWinwood
Member
hylian, honestly, i've been there and done that with the 'the data lies! this hero is actually really broken even though he has a 50% wr and poor competitive standing!' and the answer, every single time, is that i just don't play against them properly.
i mean...that's not true
i mean...that's not true
Earth Spirit says hi
...you mean the hero that isn't in competitive dota because he's still too broken?