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Dota 2 |OT13| 6.86, our Pit Lord and savior

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Wok

Wok

Member
Sgt.Pepper said:
you guys still play void the same (farm farm farm) or differently? I think he is better now to get into teamfights early.

Thinking something like Vlads/Aquila, SnY (maybe make into a manta and silver edge, depending of game), blink, moon shard, bkb if necessary


I still have to try it though.
thinking.gif
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He is a super strong offlaner. Only pick him if your team has good AOE or range damage output.

I have tried various builds: Vanguard into Radiance, Aether Lens into Assault Cuirass, Aghanim into BattleFury into Assault Cuirass, etc. What I like best is Aghanim into Assault Cuirass. You still have reasonable DPS, plus tankiness, and you can use the chrono very often. If behind, S&Y is an okay choice.

Aether Lens is good to replace a blink dagger.
 
P

Pratfall

Member
Detox said:
How do you pull one of the bigger radiant camps after pulling the small camp?
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kinda tough now. you have to eat a tree in the back right of the small camp and pull the large camp through when your last creep is close to dead. The timing is much tighter than it used to be, more like the dire side pull through.
 
D

Detox

Member
Pratfall said:
kinda tough now. you have to eat a tree in the back right of the small camp and pull the large camp through when your last creep is close to dead. The timing is much tighter than it used to be, more like the dire side pull through.
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Thanks. I feel like it's much harder than dire side. I used to time it when there was one full HP and one quarter HP creep now it feels impossible.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
dagon is kinda epic doe...
who needs blink seriously just press R and dagon and any hero would die so why would you want blink anyways ?

your draft was fucking horrible yo. riki ? magnus but no actual melee carry ?
 
A

Acinixys

Member
Shuggananas said:
dagon is kinda epic doe...
who needs blink seriously just press R and dagon and any hero would die so why would you want blink anyways ?

your draft was fucking horrible yo. riki ? magnus but no actual melee carry ?
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Ye whole team -me randomed

Gotta get that bonus gold!
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
I tried aura horse Doom the other day and it was surprisingly strong... vlads + alpha wolf aura etc does quite a bit in fights and against buildings

still hate the hero tho


Acinixys said:
Support like a beast on AA

Kills in lane like a boss

Wards all game

Lion on my team goes 4/19 and rushes dagon into aghs

Dota is suffering
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wow.... AA is desperate for buffs.... do it Fraud....
 
H

Hylian7

Member
SecretMoblin said:
I tried aura horse Doom the other day and it was surprisingly strong... vlads + alpha wolf aura etc does quite a bit in fights and against buildings

still hate the hero tho




wow.... AA is desperate for buffs.... do it Fraud....
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I liked that they replaced Doom's most useless skill with something that's actually good now.

Nobody wanted to admit it before, but Lvl ? Death was shit. You never wanted to max it first in any situation, so it fell off to the point of being largely useless.
 
D

DrPizza

Banned
Hylian7 said:
I liked that they replaced Doom's most useless skill with something that's actually good now.

Nobody wanted to admit it before, but Lvl ? Death was shit. You never wanted to max it first in any situation, so it fell off to the point of being largely useless.
Click to expand...

Lvl? Death was glorious when you had the right multiple, and you'd never take stats over it.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
DrPizza said:
Lvl? Death was glorious when you had the right multiple, and you'd never take stats over it.
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Of course it's better than stats, but at the end of the day it was still a blight on the rest of Doom's kit. The only times it was good was when all the stars aligned (Read: right multiples) and when you had to stop TPs, which there are plenty of neutrals you can eat that can do that even better.

Scorched Earth only particularly became a notable fighting spell in 6.85, when you would see the offlane Doom turn it on and just run at the carry. Before that it was just used for maintaining health and extra damage in the jungle, occasionally used in fights, but still not particularly notable.

Changes like changing Lvl ? Death to something else are actually making Doom less of a one-trick one-dimensional hero, which he was for many years. The idea of Doom (the skill) is a good one, but also has been difficult to balance throughout the years. Devour is also a great skill.
 
D

DrPizza

Banned
Hylian7 said:
Of course it's better than stats, but at the end of the day it was still a blight on the rest of Doom's kit. The only times it was good was when all the stars aligned (Read: right multiples) and when you had to stop TPs, which there are plenty of neutrals you can eat that can do that even better.

Scorched Earth only particularly became a notable fighting spell in 6.85, when you would see the offlane Doom turn it on and just run at the carry. Before that it was just used for maintaining health and extra damage in the jungle, occasionally used in fights, but still not particularly notable.

Changes like changing Lvl ? Death to something else are actually making Doom less of a one-trick one-dimensional hero, which he was for many years. The idea of Doom (the skill) is a good one, but also has been difficult to balance throughout the years. Devour is also a great skill.
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Devour has had a de facto nerf with all the cloak aura creeps. It's now quite a bit harder to eat creeps to help clear camps more quickly without losing desirable spells.

Sure, lvl? death was only really great when it had the right multiple. But boy, when they had that multiple, was it ever awesome.

If they really must get rid of the level based mechanic, I'd rather have seen it reworked to be a one in 6/5/4/3 chance of doing the bonus rather than multiple of 6/5/4/3 (and leave the guaranteed hit for level 25).
 
U

User 85168

Banned
Hylian7 said:
I liked that they replaced Doom's most useless skill with something that's actually good now.

Nobody wanted to admit it before, but Lvl ? Death was shit. You never wanted to max it first in any situation, so it fell off to the point of being largely useless.
Click to expand...

New Doom skill makes Linkens infinitely better against Doom
 
S

Sianos

Member
i've been really enjoying od lately

i particularly like running him in the offlane with another hero who loves using magical abilities and going 1-1-4-1

and i know veil doesn't boost the orb damage, but it does boost sanity's eclipse and all of the magic damage we had on our team - plus, its a great early source of armor and intelligence on top of it
 
H

Hylian7

Member
chiym1992 said:
New Doom skill makes Linkens infinitely better against Doom
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There's tons of creeps with low mana direct cast spells to eat that work for it. Hell the Mud Golem is probably one of the best ones to get.

When a spell is nothing more than a Linkens popper, then the design of it is pretty bad in my opinion.
 
S

Sianos

Member
Sgt.Pepper said:
shit invoker, shit tusk and shit pa
PogChamp.png
PogChamp.png
PogChamp.png
PogChamp.png


ez game
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astral imprison the snowball target -> throw arcane orbs at tusk -> collect gold

turned a dive on a 20% hp cm into a four for nil engagement this way

and pa got demolished in lane both in terms of cs and getting ganked

game was indeed ez
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Hylian7 said:
There's tons of creeps with low mana direct cast spells to eat that work for it. Hell the Mud Golem is probably one of the best ones to get.

When a spell is nothing more than a Linkens popper, then the design of it is pretty bad in my opinion.
Click to expand...

lv? death was never just a linkens popper, the damage was fucking insane
675 damage nuke on a 7s CD for a 2000 HP target
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Shuggananas said:
lv? death was never just a linkens popper, the damage was fucking insane
675 damage nuke on a 7s CD for a 2000 HP target
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* Only if the stars have aligned and they are the right level or have hit 25

Plus it was 110 mana with Doom's absolutely amazing mana pool. :sarcasm:

You would be using your mana for Doom, Scorched Earth, possibly a creep spell, and items (like Refresher) leaving you to maybe get 1 or 2 Lvl ? Deaths off.

Doom always had other priorities for that spell to be useful. He would jungle and not even bother with it until the other team has magic resistance and BKBs up. Or he would be in his original 6.85 incarnation and offlane maxing Scorched Earth because he could just run over any carry with it, Lvl ? Death be damned.

You could do silly pub strats of laning and maxing Lvl ? Death, abusing enemy levels, and this worked in a lot of pubs. However in pretty much anything in high 3ks/4ks or higher, that shit won't work. It just makes Doom an even worse one trick pony, as he is a paperweight during the "off" levels. You might as well call him. "Lvl ? Death" with that build.

Infernal Blade is another tool that lets him actually lane, and is actually useful even with just a value point. It also does one of Lvl ? Death's jobs and can interrupt TPs. Making up something to pop Linkens is no problem with all the neutrals available.
 
Wok

Wok

Member
Hylian7 said:
* Only if the stars have aligned and they are the right level or have hit 25

Plus it was 110 mana with Doom's absolutely amazing mana pool. :sarcasm:

You would be using your mana for Doom, Scorched Earth, possibly a creep spell, and items (like Refresher) leaving you to maybe get 1 or 2 Lvl ? Deaths off.

Doom always had other priorities for that spell to be useful. He would jungle and not even bother with it until the other team has magic resistance and BKBs up. Or he would be in his original 6.85 incarnation and offlane maxing Scorched Earth because he could just run over any carry with it, Lvl ? Death be damned.

You could do silly pub strats of laning and maxing Lvl ? Death, abusing enemy levels, and this worked in a lot of pubs. However in pretty much anything in high 3ks/4ks or higher, that shit won't work. It just makes Doom an even worse one trick pony, as he is a paperweight during the "off" levels. You might as well call him. "Lvl ? Death" with that build.

Infernal Blade is another tool that lets him actually lane, and is actually useful even with just a value point. It also does one of Lvl ? Death's jobs and can interrupt TPs. Making up something to pop Linkens is no problem with all the neutrals available.
Click to expand...

The point was not to max level death, but to have it at the appropriate level based on the game timing. As soon as the ennemy reaches 6, tp and easy gank.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Wok said:
The point was not to max level death, but to have it at the appropriate level based on the game timing. As soon as the ennemy reaches 6, tp and easy gank.
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Or you would just Doom them and chase with Scorched Earth and that was usually enough. You might have had to throw a Lvl ? Death in there depending on target.

Doing the math, you had to do this:

Enemy is 6 - Get 1st point, useless for the next 3 levels
Enemy is 10 - Get 2nd point, useless for the next 1 levels
Enemy is 12 - Get 3rd point, useless for next 2 levels
Enemy is 15 - Get 4th point, only useful every 2 levels from here on out.

Obviously it still stops TPs and pops Linkens all the time, but is the damage having such ridiculous amounts of downtime worth it?
 
shira

shira

Member
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S

Shuggananas

Banned
Hylian7 said:
* Only if the stars have aligned and they are the right level or have hit 25

Plus it was 110 mana with Doom's absolutely amazing mana pool. :sarcasm:

You would be using your mana for Doom, Scorched Earth, possibly a creep spell, and items (like Refresher) leaving you to maybe get 1 or 2 Lvl ? Deaths off.

Doom always had other priorities for that spell to be useful. He would jungle and not even bother with it until the other team has magic resistance and BKBs up. Or he would be in his original 6.85 incarnation and offlane maxing Scorched Earth because he could just run over any carry with it, Lvl ? Death be damned.

You could do silly pub strats of laning and maxing Lvl ? Death, abusing enemy levels, and this worked in a lot of pubs. However in pretty much anything in high 3ks/4ks or higher, that shit won't work. It just makes Doom an even worse one trick pony, as he is a paperweight during the "off" levels. You might as well call him. "Lvl ? Death" with that build.

Infernal Blade is another tool that lets him actually lane, and is actually useful even with just a value point. It also does one of Lvl ? Death's jobs and can interrupt TPs. Making up something to pop Linkens is no problem with all the neutrals available.
Click to expand...
It just has to be a multiple of 3. That's not very rare.
Doom has 2.1 int growth and generally builds items that provide regen and mana pool.

You'd never get lv? death early but to call it a linkens breaker only is laughable.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Shuggananas said:
It just has to be a multiple of 3. That's not very rare.
Doom has 2.1 int growth and generally builds items that provide regen and mana pool.

You'd never get lv? death early but to call it a linkens breaker only is laughable.
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That's exactly what I said, it's a multiple of 3 on level 4. BKB and magic resistance (read: Glimmer Cape) do quite a bit to take care of it too since it is magic damage. The only time anyone was afraid of that skill was if they were low, where they were dead anyway, or didn't want their TP stopped.

Multiple of 3 is still somewhat rare, especially at higher levels since people won't be gaining levels as quickly. You still have a ton of time for one of your skills to be useless.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Hylian7 said:
That's exactly what I said, it's a multiple of 3 on level 4. BKB and magic resistance (read: Glimmer Cape) do quite a bit to take care of it too since it is magic damage. The only time anyone was afraid of that skill was if they were low, where they were dead anyway, or didn't want their TP stopped.

Multiple of 3 is still somewhat rare, especially at higher levels since people won't be gaining levels as quickly. You still have a ton of time for one of your skills to be useless.
Click to expand...

But there are 5 heroes, in average that means you'll have one or two with a level multiple of 3
Or just use it for the ministun which is really useful, esp on a 7s CD

^ not too surprising vs riki, ursa, lich and viper which all fall off hard
Also I'll never understand bloodstone instead of octarine on lina. Sure the respawn reduction is nice but imo octarine is far superior
 
Q

Quesa

Member
Infernal blade does more dps (using a 2000hp target as our measure), costs less mana, is better at canceling tps, interrupts blinks indefinitely if you keep casting it on a target, and doesn't rely on something that's out of your control to deal most of its damage. The downsides are that the damage isn't burst, you have to be closer to the target, and it doesn't pop linkens, but again, it's better for blink-carrying targets.

I would rather Doom have Infernal Blade than level death. I think it works better with his skillset.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Viper is boring indeed but I don't see how treant isn't. His early game is absolute fucking ass imo
He got a nice little buff with the new iron branch though
 
Wok

Wok

Member
Hylian7 said:
Or you would just Doom them and chase with Scorched Earth and that was usually enough. You might have had to throw a Lvl ? Death in there depending on target.

Doing the math, you had to do this:

Enemy is 6 - Get 1st point, useless for the next 3 levels
Enemy is 10 - Get 2nd point, useless for the next 1 levels
Enemy is 12 - Get 3rd point, useless for next 2 levels
Enemy is 15 - Get 4th point, only useful every 2 levels from here on out.

Obviously it still stops TPs and pops Linkens all the time, but is the damage having such ridiculous amounts of downtime worth it?
Click to expand...

Well, there are 5 opponents, so it was never useless in practice.

Plus the spell range was huge.

And the mechanic was a neat idea.

Quesa said:
Infernal blade does more dps (using a 2000hp target as our measure), costs less mana, is better at canceling tps, interrupts blinks indefinitely if you keep casting it on a target, and doesn't rely on something that's out of your control to deal most of its damage. The downsides are that the damage isn't burst, you have to be closer to the target, and it doesn't pop linkens, but again, it's better for blink-carrying targets.

I would rather Doom have Infernal Blade than level death. I think it works better with his skillset.
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2e0TpEe.png


39yG1j8.png


8rVWkBb.png


CABtNh7.png
 
A

A Sentient Keyboard

Member
The Adventures of Print Screen in Solo Queue:

Game 1: Our sniper steals mid so invoker goes offlane instead. The enemy offlane veno spams wards off cooldown against our alch, who unfortunately has an aversion to last hits due to a traumatic childhood accident, and has to be content with a 15 min naked midas. Sniper is surprised to find shadowblade invis rune doesn't help against zeus, and abandons after dying. Ez free to leave.

Game 2: One of my brothers in arms hovers over legion jungle, but our cunning opponents deny him this by picking legion for themselves. It's all good though, he opts for huskar instead. We manage to gain the upper hand by 4-man towerdiving as ogre (me), ck, pa and jakiro, and their omniknight disconnects. 5 mins later, their legion and ta leave as well and we end mid as per the enemy's request.

Combined game time: 47 mins

i don't know how you people do it
 
Q

Quesa

Member
Wok said:
snip
Click to expand...

Quesa said:
Infernal blade does more dps (using a 2000hp target as our measure), costs less mana, is better at canceling tps, interrupts blinks indefinitely if you keep casting it on a target, and doesn't rely on something that's out of your control to deal most of its damage. The downsides are that the damage isn't burst, you have to be closer to the target, and it doesn't pop linkens, but again, it's better for blink-carrying targets.

I would rather Doom have Infernal Blade than level death. I think it works better with his skillset.
Click to expand...
.
 
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