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Dota 2 |OT5| TECHIES!!!
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
- Status
Technosteve
Banned
I should of drafted black god damn they can farm.
SteveWinwood
Member
17 - 0
Still lose.
Still lose.
I want to change dota. I don't care what you do, I don't want split push like we saw in that game to be viable. It's dumb. It's not fun to play. It's not fun to watch.
Remove it.
Technosteve
Banned
I forgot how strong naga's illusions can get but god damn they were able to man handle the other team by denying them the ability to do anything to stop the push.
LGD had 45 minutes to stop it.
Well that's not true. They tried to gank him a few times, they just failed to find him most of the time.
I have a suggestion: Don't give Naga Siren 40 mins of free farm.
And they didn't have the best draft to deal with Naga, either.
SteveWinwood
Member
I think someone tested it on the last OT and came to the conclusion that Naga outcarries PL.
Yes, naga can be beaten. I think the hero is balanced.
I just want it to not even be an option, or at least a viable option.
I disagree, the game would be a lot less interesting with less viable strategies(even if said strategy isn't that interesting to watch).
I think that's a valid opinion.
That is not my opinion. The most interesting part of the game to me is teamfight coordination. Combining abilities. Split second coordinated reactions, like multiple force staffs.
I simply find the split push strat to stifle all of these kinds of gameplay at the benefit of allowing 1 extra boring way to win. It's not worth it to me.
the point of the game is to take towers/the ancient, not teamfights.
To say you don't want push strats to be part of the game is ignoring the actual goal of the game.
That a fair argument. In the defence of split push, it can make for some high skill exciting events too, with teams kiting each other to stall for time whilst the one hero is away killing buildings. The 2 hour game the other day, whilst it went on longer than it needed to because lol China, the clockwerk play with hooks and cogs constantly jumping in and around the enemy team making them chase their tails. I realize that may not be entertaining to some though.
After 4 or 5 attempts to beat my final 10-hero Beastmaster I gave up and rerolled and got a hero I hate playing even more, Tinker. Managed to beat it on first try just playing PVE. I barely ever saw bad guys after I got my BoTs. I guess if I were better at juggling active items and abilities it would be fun to burst people down but hex, dagon, rockets, lazers, soul ring, rearm, blah blah, it's too much for my old, shitty brain to handle.
Ty for the answers guys, I know it's likely never gonna happen in a proper game and it was something I had wondered about.
Similarly would you ever have Chen and Enchant on the same team? I've never seen it and was wondering if there's any sort of weird draft that relies on having both of them rotating through both jungles and having a serious army of minions.
There's still a lot I don't understand about viable and non viable drafts, things beyond don't go all melee and try to have at least one reliable stun confuse me. Like when one team picked TA into Batrider and the casters were confused I was lost until they explained why it was so bad. Some casters are better about this than others. I fucking hate "this matchup is fine for blank until lvl X" and then they never explain what happens at that level that changes things
Similarly would you ever have Chen and Enchant on the same team? I've never seen it and was wondering if there's any sort of weird draft that relies on having both of them rotating through both jungles and having a serious army of minions.
There's still a lot I don't understand about viable and non viable drafts, things beyond don't go all melee and try to have at least one reliable stun confuse me. Like when one team picked TA into Batrider and the casters were confused I was lost until they explained why it was so bad. Some casters are better about this than others. I fucking hate "this matchup is fine for blank until lvl X" and then they never explain what happens at that level that changes things
Well...
The goal of the game is ostensibly the destruction of the ancients. This is made both explicit in the tutorial and implicit with the victory conditions, yet that's not what DOTA2 is really about.
DOTA2 is a tug of war between two teams, each using their own strategy to complete the games' objectives while trying to disrupt the others'. Many games are "lost" or "won", far before the ancients are killed. It's similar to card games like Magic in that sense. The primary victory condition of Magic is reducing the opponent's life total down to 0, from a starting life of 20. One might be tempted to say that you can judge which player is winning in a match by their life totals, yet this is not true in the slightest. It doesn't really matter if a player has only 1 life left. So long as they maintain board control, and their opponent lacks the ability to actually close out the game, they can be at 1 life to 20 and still be "winning". Thus, DOTA2 is a game of momentum. The objectives are simply terminating conditions.
That said, I don't mind the existence of split push strats, and firmly object to the idea of enforcing "exciting" gameplay, which is exactly what causes League of Legends to be so stale. Because every champion in League is pigeonholed into some role, there is absolutely no way for any player to innovate a strategy like Radiance Naga. This is the only way to completely guarantee that games will be about team fighting:
1) By making all heroes within a role similar in capability
2) By limiting the amount of presence any single hero can project to within their immediate area, or limiting it drastically with cooldowns
3) By giving everyone movement options like Flash and gap closers
And I think we can all agree that the last thing we want for DOTA2 is for it to be more like League.
The goal of the game is ostensibly the destruction of the ancients. This is made both explicit in the tutorial and implicit with the victory conditions, yet that's not what DOTA2 is really about.
DOTA2 is a tug of war between two teams, each using their own strategy to complete the games' objectives while trying to disrupt the others'. Many games are "lost" or "won", far before the ancients are killed. It's similar to card games like Magic in that sense. The primary victory condition of Magic is reducing the opponent's life total down to 0, from a starting life of 20. One might be tempted to say that you can judge which player is winning in a match by their life totals, yet this is not true in the slightest. It doesn't really matter if a player has only 1 life left. So long as they maintain board control, and their opponent lacks the ability to actually close out the game, they can be at 1 life to 20 and still be "winning". Thus, DOTA2 is a game of momentum. The objectives are simply terminating conditions.
That said, I don't mind the existence of split push strats, and firmly object to the idea of enforcing "exciting" gameplay, which is exactly what causes League of Legends to be so stale. Because every champion in League is pigeonholed into some role, there is absolutely no way for any player to innovate a strategy like Radiance Naga. This is the only way to completely guarantee that games will be about team fighting:
1) By making all heroes within a role similar in capability
2) By limiting the amount of presence any single hero can project to within their immediate area, or limiting it drastically with cooldowns
3) By giving everyone movement options like Flash and gap closers
And I think we can all agree that the last thing we want for DOTA2 is for it to be more like League.
Backdoor protection used to not be in the game. A popular strat was to naga sing during a teamfight and have furion port to the other base and take rax with no creeps. It was effective.
Then backdoor protection was added. It removed this viable strategy from the game, however, I think this reduction in number of strategies was a good thing.
I would like a similar style change added for split pushing. I'm not exactly sure how, but something.
Yup, lucky!
It is not luck but skill
and Valve enabling the extra drop slot for TI3 ticket holders by mistake.
Dream's has likely gotten a drop by now if I have gotten 2.
edit: He has gotten two, looks like they were from the American Qualifiers.
I want one. I'm starving.
I understand your point. But push strats are absolutely necessary to balance the game out. Other team drafts a crazy late game power team? Draft an early pushing line up, beat them before they become unstoppable.
It isn't just another way to win, it is why the game can be balanced at all.
mastershake
Member
You can get it in a bowl as well, which is much easier to eat
I don't think anyone dislikes early 5 man push strats.
I'm talking about pl, furion, naga "rat" dota where the goal is to never directly fight. Split push.
Sigismundo
Member
mastershake
Member
NP fungus now
gimme gimme gimme
neurosisxeno
Member
Naga can be played as a support who transitions into a carry, Furion can gank at almost all stages of the game, and PL is PL. You ignored Tinker who is debatably the most annoying split pusher in the game. The problem is people for some reason don't press the issue against these heroes. Yes, Naga and PL are a bit illusive but that can be said about a multitude of heroes. As it is, these heroes are generally only played that way with consistant effectiveness by top teams when their opponents have drafted them into a corner.
Watching Replays won't magically make your fingers good at invoking.
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