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[Pratfall]

Lasso does dot damage, Lasso is unbreakable(probably broken), Lasso increases Batrider ms(also probably broken).

Also you can always get refresher on bat, even if you can't get 2 targets at once it's great to have 2 lassos in a row for 8 seconds of lockdown.

yeah, i should have gone refresher last night

 

[kionedrik]

i know bat is in a good place balancewise but an aghs upgrade on him would be pretty awesome. The hero can farm well and usually only needs 3 items to be effective (boots, blink, force) so I always feel like I am looking for items to fill the extra slots. What do you guys think would be a cool aghs on him? Flaming Lasso makes the target extra vulnerable to physical and spell damage?

Increase lasso range, it's extremely small right now, and reduce cooldown.

 

[Imp the Dimp]

Increase lasso range, it's extremely small right now, and reduce cooldown.

Turn lasso into pre-nerf lasso basically? I remember the free wins Batrider gave me in 2013. Hero was so ridiculous as well as underplayed in low level pubs.

 

[Cyborgmatt]

Batrider doesn't need a buff.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

yeah, i should have gone refresher last night

You not having refresher was the least of our problems, we fucked up so many fights. I found myself standing right next to Sniper several times and couldn't swap him out(not like there's a point since all of their heroes shit on sniper anyway).

We hit rock bottom at that attempted Weaver gank *insert Benny Hill music*

 

[NBtoaster]

Nothing bothers me more than seeing bad starting item builds. Seeing a guy random dk, claim mid, then decide to go to lane with a quelling blade, two gauntlets and several clarities is torture.

 

[kionedrik]

Turn lasso into pre-nerf lasso basically? I remember the free wins Batrider gave me in 2013. Hero was so ridiculous as well as underplayed in low level pubs.

You realise you're referring to a 6.79 nerf right? It would also require you to get an aghs, which realistically would only happen too far into the game because nobody in their right mind would get it before blink and force (and possibly BoTs).

 

[kvk1]

We hit rock bottom at that attempted Weaver gank *insert Benny Hill music*

 

[Acinixys]

Nothing bothers me more than seeing bad starting item builds. Seeing a guy random dk, claim mid, then decide to go to lane with a quelling blade, two gauntlets and several clarities is torture.

Your carry in lane with no items

You ask why

SAVING FOR HEAL RING

 

[shira]

Most likely. I'm pretty sure none of the Chinese teams will attend the LAN.

VG thought it was in Las Vegas until I explained to them that D2L is the Vegas event they were thinking of.

 

[Pratfall]

I dont see the aghs upgrade on bat as a straight buff, but something that is another interesting choice for the hero. A bit like nightstalkers aghs or tinkers aghs. Neither of those are perfect examples, but I think an upgrade that is great in certain games would be cool.

 

[Anbokr]

Cross-posting for visibility:

Missing team names/logos from: Tobe, Pillowknight, Madouu, Jakkufurosu, Hylian7, and Ksan.

Missing scheduling information from: Ksan/Pillow, IH8Memes/Freakinchair, Vade/Crow, Megaridley/Hylian7, Tobe/DV, and A Sentient Keyboard/Jakkufurosu.

You guys have until the end of today to get me this information. The pre-season is a captain/player activity check so please no flakerino on me. In future weeks if teams have failed to schedule their match by Thursday night, they'll both go 0-2 for the week. So if one captain is unresponsive, please take ample logs of you trying to contact them at different times throughout the week .

 

[Satch]

Tobe needs to use Thacker's avatar for his team logo

 

[twobear]

the flop disorganisation of some of these captains tbh

 

[Emerson]

i know bat is in a good place balancewise but an aghs upgrade on him would be pretty awesome. The hero can farm well and usually only needs 3 items to be effective (boots, blink, force) so I always feel like I am looking for items to fill the extra slots. What do you guys think would be a cool aghs on him? Flaming Lasso makes the target extra vulnerable to physical and spell damage?

Heroes like Batrider, Tidehunter and a couple others are in a really tricky place when it comes to Aghs upgrades because their ults are already so powerful and game-defining that any buff at all runs a serious risk of making them truly OP. Whenever they finally get aghs they're likely going to modify their other abilities rather than ults or will have to be very creative changes.

 

[Anbokr]

I feel like Icefrog gives aghs effects to underpowered or unpopular heroes (especially supports/offlaners) that could use a pseudo-buff (especially in the late game). Wouldn't be surprised to see DP get an aghs soon that basically restores her old ghosts' cooldown and buffs the damage a bit.

Batrider is a fkn monster early, mid, and late game (especially late game). I don't see a scenario where he ever gets an aghs unless he's just completely nuked out of the metagame for a couple of patches (like DP). He's survived a tirade of nerfs over the past 2 years. Plus an aghs would be a completely unnecessary perfect item for him (aka a flat buff to him) because his only core is blink + force and then he's free to get whatever he wants... in this case an aghs if it were available. I think it's a lot more interesting when you have a hero like Void who wants to get other items, but has to make the hard decision on if he really wants to use up a slot (and a lot of gold) on that aghanims.

 

[Emerson]

I feel like Icefrog gives aghs effects to underpowered heroes (especially supports/offlaners) that could use a pseudo-buff (especially in the late game). Wouldn't be surprised to see DP get an aghs soon that basically restores her old ghosts cooldown and buffs the ult a bit.

Batrider is a fkn monster early, mid, and late game (especially late game). I don't see a scenario where he ever gets an aghs unless he's just completely nuked out of the metagame for a couple of patches (like DP). He's survived a tirade of nerfs over the past 2 years.

I agree with that but I'm speaking from the assumption that every hero will eventually have an aghs upgrade, which I think is pretty likely.

 

[SteveWinwood]

i really dont care who gets them

i just want aghs

more aghs

 

[twobear]

troll warlord aghs: makes ult toggleable

 

[Pratfall]

I feel like Icefrog gives aghs effects to underpowered or unpopular heroes (especially supports/offlaners) that could use a pseudo-buff (especially in the late game). Wouldn't be surprised to see DP get an aghs soon that basically restores her old ghosts' cooldown and buffs the damage a bit.

Batrider is a fkn monster early, mid, and late game (especially late game). I don't see a scenario where he ever gets an aghs unless he's just completely nuked out of the metagame for a couple of patches (like DP). He's survived a tirade of nerfs over the past 2 years. Plus an aghs would be a completely unnecessary perfect item for him (aka a flat buff to him) because his only core is blink + force and then he's free to get whatever he wants... in this case an aghs if it were available. I think it's a lot more interesting when you have a hero like Void who wants to get other items, but has to make the hard decision on if he really wants to use up a slot (and a lot of gold) on that aghanims.

this seems correct. I was just playing him last night and snowballing a bit and I thought that an aghs upgrade that made him have a bit more solo killing potential could be fun. likely it would just make him OP.

troll warlord aghs: makes ult toggleable

wouldnt be too much different given its cooldown

 

[inkls]

I feel like Icefrog gives aghs effects to underpowered or unpopular heroes (especially supports/offlaners) that could use a pseudo-buff (especially in the late game). Wouldn't be surprised to see DP get an aghs soon that basically restores her old ghosts' cooldown and buffs the damage a bit.

Batrider is a fkn monster early, mid, and late game (especially late game). I don't see a scenario where he ever gets an aghs unless he's just completely nuked out of the metagame for a couple of patches (like DP). He's survived a tirade of nerfs over the past 2 years. Plus an aghs would be a completely unnecessary perfect item for him (aka a flat buff to him) because his only core is blink + force and then he's free to get whatever he wants... in this case an aghs if it were available. I think it's a lot more interesting when you have a hero like Void who wants to get other items, but has to make the hard decision on if he really wants to use up a slot (and a lot of gold) on that aghanims.

I would love that so much on dp

 

[A Sentient Keyboard]

Obviously, it shouldn't rile me up as much as it does but jeez, just accept that you are not exceptionally talented at the game and step back when a 4k comes along.

I feel like this sentence went underappreciated, I mean jesus christ.

 

[shira]

the flop disorganisation of some of these captains tbh

Can we have some kind of spread sheet or doodle.com for matches - open for both teams. Then we can just confirm our availability and all the admins can see who is coming or the progress.

idk how often non-dota gaf actually read posted messages and this way anyone on either team can initiate, it's not just 2 captains setting everything up

EDIT: updated image

Why not open that up for both teams though. You need an opponent as well

 

[52club]

I feel like this sentence went underappreciated, I mean jesus christ.

Honestly I can't tell if Imp is being sarcastic, or is missing a lot of self-awareness. Either way I fing his point of view entertaining.

 

[A Sentient Keyboard]

Can we have some kind of spread sheet or doodle.com for matches - open for both teams. Then we can just confirm our availability and all the admins can see who is coming or the progress.

idk how often non-dota gaf actually read posted messages and this way anyone on either team can initiate, it's not just 2 captains setting everything up

I have a spreadsheet set up with a schedule and announcements tab (that my team should check every second of their waking existance aaaargh). JakkuFurosu and I had set up a tentative match time for saturday 2pm PST, but unfortunately it turned out most of my players couldn't make that so we had to look for another time. Here's my team's situation (the 'available' column is for saturday):

EDIT: updated image

 

[Tieske]

Alongside new ones I hope they continue this recent trend of making some upgrades not terrible (remember old OD and puck?)
Specifically cm and gyro still have pretty lackluster upgrades

Valve returns next week right?

burden looking really rough in DL

 

[poppedcollar69]

jakkus team is 2 ogres 1 club

i want to say i agree that mmr is probably pretty accurate cause one time i made a smurf account and then calibrated at roughly the same mmr (I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA BE FOUR KAY

)

 

[bbd23]

I have a spreadsheet set up with a schedule and announcements tab (that my team should check every second of their waking existance aaaargh). JakkuFurosu and I had set up a tentative match time for saturday 2pm PST, but unfortunately it turned out most of my players couldn't make that so we had to look for another time. Here's my team's situation (the 'available' column is for saturday):

IMAGE OUTDATED ARGHHHHHHHHHN

 

[SteveWinwood]

look as soon as every single under 5k player understands they dont know what theyre talking about the sooner we can hunt them down and put our badges on to their clothes making systematic internment and eventual execution possible

the sooner you realize they have no rights and are sub human pond scum the better

its not that theyre bad that annoys us (we promise) its that they dont bow down to the superior 5k and above ubermenschs and step aside for them to take the roles they were bred to

thanks imp for showing me the way you just got the numbers wrong and you will have to be executed as well to keep your bad at dota genes out of future populations sorry so please no comments on balance coming out of you imp the dimp youre just not good enough

 

[A Sentient Keyboard]

IMAGE OUTDATED ARGHHHHHHHHHN

UPDATED JEEZ

 

[Satch]

look as soon as every single under 5k player understands they dont know what theyre talking about the sooner we can hunt them down and put our badges on to their clothes making systematic internment and eventual execution possible

the sooner you realize they have no rights and are sub human pond scum the better

its not that theyre bad that annoys us (we promise) its that they dont bow down to the superior 5k and above ubermenschs and step aside for them to take the roles they were bred to

thanks imp for showing me the way you just got the numbers wrong and you will have to be executed as well to keep your bad at dota genes out of future populations sorry so please no comments on balance coming out of you imp the dimp youre just not good enough

 

[NormalFish]

jakkus team is 2 ogres 1 club

i want to say i agree that mmr is probably pretty accurate cause one time i made a smurf account and then calibrated at roughly the same mmr (I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA BE FOUR KAY

)

MMR for soloq is probably really accurate. I think MMR is held in too high esteem when it comes to organized teams/stacks, though. A 2800 soloq player might not know how to carry games from the support role as is necessary in soloq, but might be able to work with a carry a little bit and quickly be as valuable within the stack as some pub 3500 support player might be.

But, again, soloq MMR is depressingly accurate.

 

[kvk1]

sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, steve

if you were 4K+ in english rhetorical devices you'd know that

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Just wanted to say that MMR is accurate provided you've played a fair number of ranked games. Initially it isn't because it uses your unranked hidden MMR as a starting point. Most people don't take unranked especially seriously and don't spam their best heroes constantly like they would in ranked. Most players have a very real range of skill depending on the hero they've chosen. They might have 4K or better confidence and performance on their Batrider, but 2K on their Chen. But they played Chen more in unraked pubs because they like the hero more. When reducing your played hero pool to your 20-30 very best heroes and playing with others who want to win with balanced team compositions, I think everyone's MMR should rise from wherever it starts (to some degree).

Though I suppose if you spammed only your best heroes in unranked pubs, ranked MMR is probably more immediately accurate than those who play a little of everything.

 

[Procarbine]

Yeah, that's what it felt like. He literally said MMR wouldn't matter in that discussion because of how right he was and due to how wrong I was. What the hell, I virtually have twice his MMR. There is no way he would know a thing about the game that I don't. I'm not asking 2Ks to worship me, but damn, show some respect, scrubs.

When exactly is your opinion allowed to count? As a 4k player you can sit here and say that a 2k has no business contradicting your opinions, but then a 5k can say the same to you, and a top 100 can say the same to them. Then professional players can enter the discussion, call all of you shit, and then say your discussions don't even matter because pro games are the only place where the real game is played. An open discussion means anyone can contribute, and if people are giving bad advice you can quote them and correct it. Sure, they won't ever admit to being wrong but if your arguments are decently explained and make sense you should get through to the third parties reading. Attaching mmrs to posts would make people more toxic and unwilling to put forth their ideas, I can imagine many people in this thread not even wanting to post if that was the case.

And while mmr is a decent general indicator of your skill, it isn't an insanely accurate end all. Solo mmr measures how many games your willing to play alone and how good you are at winning them alone. This favors playing snowballing mids extremely selfishly, or spam picking your best snowballer/fotm over and over. Say what you want, but the best 5 position player ever is going to have an extremely slow (and unpleasant) time climbing compared to sniper/troll/sf/meepo/whatever spammers.

 

[DrPizza]

Yeah, that's what it felt like. He literally said MMR wouldn't matter in that discussion because of how right he was and due to how wrong I was. What the hell, I virtually have twice his MMR. There is no way he would know a thing about the game that I don't. I'm not asking 2Ks to worship me, but damn, show some respect, scrubs.

I routinely know mechanical things that people with twice my MMR don't know. Hell, it wasn't so long ago that a pro tried to buy an abyssal on one of the prohibited heroes and was surprised that it didn't work.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I routinely know mechanical things that people with twice my MMR don't know. Hell, it wasn't so long ago that a pro tried to buy an abyssal on one of the prohibited heroes and was surprised that it didn't work.

agree, generally. that said, I can't think of anything I know that someone twice my MMR wouldn't. but that doesn't mean that they can't be wrong about an item purchase or fail more often at some mechanic (like casting difficult skills effectively). It also doesn't mean I can't play my best heroes better than they could play them.

When exactly is your opinion allowed to count? As a 4k player you can sit here and say that a 2k has no business contradicting your opinions, but then a 5k can say the same to you, and a top 100 can say the same to them. Then professional players can enter the discussion, call all of you shit, and then say your discussions don't even matter because pro games are the only place where the real game is played. An open discussion means anyone can contribute, and if people are giving bad advice you can quote them and correct it. Sure, they won't ever admit to being wrong but if your arguments are decently explained and make sense you should get through to the third parties reading. Attaching mmrs to posts would make people more toxic and unwilling to put forth their ideas, I can imagine many people in this thread not even wanting to post if that was the case.

And while mmr is a decent general indicator of your skill, it isn't an insanely accurate end all. Solo mmr measures how many games your willing to play alone and how good you are at winning them alone. This favors playing snowballing mids extremely selfishly, or spam picking your best snowballer/fotm over and over. Say what you want, but the best 5 position player ever is going to have an extremely slow (and unpleasant) time climbing compared to sniper/troll/sf/meepo/whatever spammers.

this post is winning.

should be copied and pasted daily into the IHL lobby. because...

 

[NormalFish]

Troll balanced hero...

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Troll balanced hero...

fuck Troll.

 

[NormalFish]

fuck Troll.

I honestly enjoy playing troll quite a bit so I don't want him gutted, but I wouldn't mind it right now. Hero's so stupid.

 

[TommyT]

Yeah, that's what it felt like. He literally said MMR wouldn't matter in that discussion because of how right he was and due to how wrong I was. What the hell, I virtually have twice his MMR. There is no way he would know a thing about the game that I don't. I'm not asking 2Ks to worship me, but damn, show some respect, scrubs.

This is just... whatthefuck.gif

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

So we're attaching our MMR's to our posts whenever we talk about Dota right?

Fuck Sniper

- 2.5K player

 

[mastershake]

I honestly enjoy playing troll quite a bit so I don't want him gutted, but I wouldn't mind it right now. Hero's so stupid.

Sorry, you don't meet the MMR requirements to post about hero balance in this thread.

Please edit your post or I will be forced to contact the mods. Thanks in advance

1.09 is the only person that can discuss doto in this thread

 

[Imp the Dimp]

All right guys I give up. Social Darwinism might actually not be the ideal solution to me being shittalked by an anon on Reddit.

 

[NormalFish]

Sorry, you don't meet the MMR requirements to post about hero balance in this thread.

Please edit your post or I will be forced to contact the mods. Thanks in advance

1.09 is the only person that can discuss doto in this thread

I give it 4 days before the thread is closed.

 

[Emerson]

This is actually one of the most idiotic fucking discussions this thread has ever had to endure. Right up there with the week of misery that was Hylian vs. Thomas the tank engine or whatever his name is. The idea that people are actually attaching any value to their MMR in discussion about the game and "Who's Right" is incredible.

 

[SecretMoblin]

if only you got mmr for stacking for your carries

more aghs would make ARDM a lot more interesting

 

[ViviOggi]

I like how we have absolutely no idea of what the argument even was but like four posts of MMR gloating

 

[TommyT]

This is actually one of the most idiotic fucking discussions this thread has ever had to endure. Right up there with the week of misery that was Hylian vs. Thomas the tank engine or whatever his name is. The idea that people are actually attaching any value to their MMR in discussion about the game and "Who's Right" is incredible.

It's Timmy the Tooth to you. Get it right or get toothed.

if only you got mmr for stacking for your carries

more aghs would make ARDM a lot more interesting

Best mode gets even better!

 

[SteveWinwood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETfiUYij5UE