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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)

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A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Gentle Rodriguez said:
Me earlier:"What if we don't get a new patch before TI?"
everyone else:"That would never happen"
Me:"Yeah I know"

I'm starting to doubt myself

I'm scared

HO HO HA HA
Click to expand...

Na, there will 100% be a patch before TI. Probably a B and C version too.

But as Shugg said, I only think that icefrog is just trying to get it right before TI. Yes, players get bored of every patch and start complaining at some point, but this patch feels different. The whine surrounding 6.83 mechanics and heroes is just crazy compared to most of the older patches. People have issues with this version in both pubs and competitive--the constant pro whine is especially out of the ordinary compared to say your standard reddit spam.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
Na, there will 100% be a patch before TI. Probably a B and C version too.

But as Shugg said, I only think that icefrog is just trying to get it right before TI. Yes, players get bored of every patch and start complaining at some point, but this patch feels different. The whine surrounding 6.83 mechanics and heroes is just crazy compared to most of the older patches. People have issues with this version in both pubs and competitive--the constant pro whine is especially out of the ordinary compared to say your standard reddit spam.
Click to expand...

I don't really know if it's worse than last year when everyone hated Void and Tinker. It honestly seems about the same level of that, I just hate this patch slightly more out of personal bias because Tinker is one of my favorite heroes.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Calidor said:
Can confirm. The recipe to win MMR is actually very very simple and has been demonstrated numerous times.

1) Pick impactful hero that can 1vs5 and don't need babysitting: Troll, Slark, PL, Huskar, TA, Storm, Jug. Big No-nos are: Specter, AM, Medusa, Naga
2) Mute all your team, farm farm farm efficiently and ignore every-fucking-one
3) only tp to teamfights after the enemy has spent their nukes killing your team mates and you can come to clean them up.
4) Get towers, get solo rosh, Win
Click to expand...
For the record, my Medusa is undefeated in ranked play, and my Luna is something like 6-1. Combined, something like 11-1. No imba picks required. Small sample size, but solid results. I did try PL a couple of times but ran into a lot of trouble without sufficient land support (as is the reality for almost all never carries).

Though I reserve the right pick a Sniper with no shame if I feel like I'm not going to have any lane support vs a double stun lane or some other harass-heavy lane comp.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Thank god this shit is just getting unpaused in the C9 game. No sympathy at all.

Hylian7 said:
I don't really know if it's worse than last year when everyone hated Void and Tinker. It honestly seems about the same level of that, I just hate this patch slightly more out of personal bias because Tinker is one of my favorite heroes.
Click to expand...

Troll is easily stronger than Void a few patches ago (and I played both a shit ton). Void could be comfortably dealt with with a WK or Venge pick. Troll has hardly any counters and a fucking stupid pub winrate. 100% p/b in pro games as well.
 
C

Calidor

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
For the record, my Medusa is undefeated in ranked play, and my Luna is something like 6-1. Combined, something like 11-1. No imba picks required. Small sample size, but solid results. I did try PL a couple of times but ran into a lot of trouble without sufficient land support (as is the reality for almost all never carries).

Though I reserve the right pick a Sniper with no shame if I feel like I'm not going to have any lane support vs a double stun lane or some other harass-heavy lane comp.
Click to expand...

Like everything in dota, it really depends on the situation. To me the biggest weakness of Medusa is that you can just give no shits about her, even if 6-slotted. She is a walking tower that can be chain hexed, euled and stunned while you team wipe the rest, and then you deal with her. (or just back off and re-engage the same way).

Luna is ok-ish late game I guess, she can farm FAST. She needs a range buff, better cast point on eclipse and a higher str gain to be on par with other carrys.

PL: Probably the most underrated hero right now IMO. Extremely powerful lategame and a strong counter to most caries right now (including Troll, Jug and Medusa)

I really like Huskar against Qop/Storm/lina. Troll will make you cry though.

Lesh and Riki might be OP next patch (C9 drafted them today)
 
B

Bubbavelli

Banned
Shuggananas said:
You should wait till you have a good 300 games at least before jumping into MMR
I'd even suggest 500 or 1000 even
Click to expand...

kionedrik said:
Don't calibrate at 13. The ranked calibration takes into account your hidden MMR that it's used in non-ranked games. I've heard countless stories of people that calibrated as soon as they could and ended up in MMR hell.
Play the game, try all heroes more than once, try builds and items and find your comfort zone/picks, then try ranked games.

A good rule of thumb seems to be to calibrate once you get "normal skill",or higher, games regularly in dotabuff.
Click to expand...

Ahhh I see. I've been getting a lot of normal skill ratings on a good portion of my latest games. I've played 133 games so far so I might just take that 300, 500 advice. I use to only play all pick with sven (I really liked him when I started out) but all i've been playing lately is single draft. I like the opportunity it gives to try all the heroes. Some where I've done extremely well and other times not so much. Honestly I just want my day of classes to be over so I can jump back in.


Honestly this game just makes me want a Warcraft 4 more than anything else. RIP ;_;
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
Emerson said:
You realize TI5 is still nearly a full 4 months away right
Click to expand...
Don't worry I know there will be a patch. Though they can't exactly drop it a day before TI, nor can they drop it in the middle of quals. The timeframe they have is kind of specific.

I just really want it before quals as I watched almost all of them last year and will not survive watching 200 games of HOHO HAHA + spin to win.

I mean I survived Mirana qualifiers but she's not a boring hero. Same reason SF doesn't tire me out, exciting heroes.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Gentle Rodriguez said:
Don't worry I know there will be a patch. Though they can't exactly drop it a day before TI, nor can they drop it in the middle of quals. The timeframe they have is kind of specific.

I just really want it before quals as I watched almost all of them last year and will not survive watching 200 games of HOHO HAHA + spin to win.

I mean I survived Mirana qualifiers but she's not a boring hero. Same reason SF doesn't tire me out, exciting heroes.
Click to expand...

I don't think having qualifiers and the tournament going on different patches makes sense anyway
 
K

kionedrik

Member
You can compare this patch to 6.81(?) from last year but lets be honest with ourselves, the viable hero pool in this patch is substantially smaller than that patch, and that's what's really killing the fun for me.
Also I'm not a fan of the comeback or rubber band mechanic that was introduced since then.

I honestly think we'll hear about 6.84 next week. Let's just hope I'm close to the truth.
 
G

Gentle Rodriguez

Member
I actually think the viable hero pool is bigger than ever, the problem is that certain heroes are so much stronger than the rest that they dominate picks. Several people have already said that most heroes don't need any buffs, there's just a bunch that need nerfs, and I agree with that notion.

But also buff armlet, Druid and Alch.
 
C

Chris R

Member
Yep, when you are forced to use a ban or pick on a very small set of heroes almost every game it makes it seem like the viable pool is smaller than it really is. If Troll/Sniper were removed from cm tomorrow the picks could start getting exotic again.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
worse than the limited picks and bans is the complete inability of teams to finish a goddamn game

pushing high ground this patch is a perfect shitstorm of flavor of the month heroes that are great turtlers and the ridiculous rubber band making everyone scared of their own shadow
 
D

DrPizza

Banned
Gentle Rodriguez said:
I actually think the viable hero pool is bigger than ever, the problem is that certain heroes are so much stronger than the rest that they dominate picks. Several people have already said that most heroes don't need any buffs, there's just a bunch that need nerfs, and I agree with that notion.

But also buff armlet, Druid and Alch.
Click to expand...

Lone Druid's position is so sad. I love his cosmetics (red panda bear hell yes) but the hero is fucking garbage right now, so I never get to use them.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
You guys are right, "viable" wasn't the correct word to use. What I meant was that "top-tier" or "first-pick" pool are smaller than it ever was.

About nerfs, it's obvious who needs them and what items need some tweaking.

About buffs, don't forget about Ursa and Beastmaster.
 
C

Chris R

Member
kionedrik said:
You guys are right, "viable" wasn't the correct word to use. What I meant was that "top-tier" or "first-pick" pool are smaller than it ever was.

About nerfs, it's obvious who needs them and what items need some tweaking.

About buffs, don't forget about Ursa and Beastmaster.
Click to expand...

Beastmaster is fine I think, and Ursa would be tough... you don't want to make a pubstomp hero like Ursa can be even better, but what can you tweak to make him viable in pro games?
 
S

Sgt.Pepper

Banned
Calidor said:
Like everything in dota, it really depends on the situation. To me the biggest weakness of Medusa is that you can just give no shits about her, even if 6-slotted. She is a walking tower that can be chain hexed, euled and stunned while you team wipe the rest, and then you deal with her. (or just back off and re-engage the same way).

Luna is ok-ish late game I guess, she can farm FAST. She needs a range buff, better cast point on eclipse and a higher str gain to be on par with other carrys.

PL: Probably the most underrated hero right now IMO. Extremely powerful lategame and a strong counter to most caries right now (including Troll, Jug and Medusa)

I really like Huskar against Qop/Storm/lina. Troll will make you cry though.

Lesh and Riki might be OP next patch (C9 drafted them today)
Click to expand...

QoP and Lina have powerful pure damage nukes, albeit Aghs necessary for the latter. That shit wrecks Huskar, as fas I've seen.

Lesh is pretty good. Some like maxing Edict and/or Split Earth first, but I like Lightning the best. Riki is pretty damn good, dunno why he doesn't get picked.
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
Sniper in particular is easy to counterpick (if you're playing a mode where that's possible) and it's not like Troll's win rate is absurd. Both are annoying but there are tons of players who pick them because they think it's a win button and have no idea what makes them difficult to play into.

Plus, people are apparently allergic to the cheap, easy-to-use, and stat-rich ghost scepter.
 
P

pompidu

Member
Hylian7 said:
Then either you are extremely lucky or the ones you do play against are bad. Those heroes are very hard to win against typically.
Click to expand...

There is a good set of heroes that can handle troll sniper. Neither of them have a free bkb, monster burst damage (while invulnerable), one of the best healing skills in the game, absurd armor or bkb immune skills.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
SecretMoblin said:
Sniper in particular is easy to counterpick (if you're playing a mode where that's possible) and it's not like Troll's win rate is absurd. Both are annoying but there are tons of players who pick them because they think it's a win button and have no idea what makes them difficult to play into.

Plus, people are apparently allergic to the cheap, easy-to-use, and stat-rich ghost scepter.
Click to expand...

People always say this when referring to taking on difficult right clickers but at the same time they forget about the downside of it: The amplified magic damage. This can be dangerous if something like a Skywrath or Lion is in the house. I wouldn't say it's really "easy-to-use". Plus 1600 gold is a lot of money for a support potentially.

It absolutely is a good solution, but isn't an end-all, be-all.

pompidu said:
There is a good set of heroes that can handle troll sniper. Neither of them have a free bkb, monster burst damage (while invulnerable), one of the best healing skills in the game, absurd armor or bkb immune skills.
Click to expand...

Sniper I'll give you, but Troll is very hard to handle on pretty much any hero in the game. He's a natural BKB buyer, and probably will get a BKB eventually, no matter what you do. Also his bashes go through BKB!
 
K

kionedrik

Member
rhfb said:
Beastmaster is fine I think, and Ursa would be tough... you don't want to make a pubstomp hero like Ursa can be even better, but what can you tweak to make him viable in pro games?
Click to expand...

Right now the only thing that's great about Beastmaster is the Hawk, the rest is pretty meh. I would change 2 things:
- Give axe's a scaling mana cost
- Change the Ags ulti to be a small AoE stun instead of a target stun and an AoE knockback.

Ursa is a lot trickier. He has huge kitting issues and does't really scale that well into the late game. I always thought about giving Fury Swipes a chance to slow the target (10%) for 30 to 60 MS and it would stack with Earthshock (multiple instances of FS would refresh the duration and wouldn't stack)
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Ursa isn't a pubstomp hero at all lol, or maybe in lower brackets, but the hero does jackshit
He needs :
blink
lifesteal
bkb
basher
some instant disable (abyssal + hex for instance)

to do shit
Like geez he's just garbage, WK is a better ursa
Make beastmaster's axes pure, or apply his auto attack damage or part of it I don't know, it falls off hard really fast. Make his roar actually instant (like a hex) and then he's good
 
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