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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)

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shira

shira

Member
http://live.starladder.tv/en/news/2316-starseries-xii-lan-finals-announcement
dota2_s12_lan_grid_4.png

24 of April, start at 10:00 CEST — 6 matches bo3
25 of April, start at 10:00 CEST — 6 matches bo3
26 of April, start at 10:00 CEST — 1 match bo3, 1 match bo5
Secret: (Puppey, s4, Kuroky, Zai, Arteezy)
Cloud9: (EternalEnvy, Bone7, FATA-, BigDaddy, Misery)
Alliance: (Loda, Akke, Pajkatt, Niqua, 7ckingMad)
London Conspiracy: (Spartan, Madara, Keysen, Realax, SKANKS 224)
iG: (Faith, Burning, Chuan, Luo, Ferrari)
VG: (Fy, Fenrir, Hao, iceiceice, Super)
Tinker: (pieliedie, Bulba, qojqva, Waytosexy, Black)
Malaysia: (kYxY, Kecik Imba, Ohaiyo, Johnny, Mushi)
Click to expand...

Standard format, 29-45 matches

No Navi
tears.gif
 
manfestival

manfestival

Member
I feel like I have been out of the dota 2 pro scene loop so I have some questions.
Is alliance back?
What team is singsing on now?
Is EG still DA BEST?
Will rotk rise back to glory?
How has team secret been doing?
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
manfestival said:
I feel like I have been out of the dota 2 pro scene loop so I have some questions.
Is alliance back?
What team is singsing on now?
Is EG still DA BEST?
Will rotk rise back to glory?
How has team secret been doing?
Click to expand...
possibly, they've been solid
burden united, keep your expectations low
they're still really good
who knows
okay
 
P

pompidu

Member
I think some fair nerfs for troll would be,
BattleTrance: From 60/120/180 to 50/100/150.
Whirling Axes: From 450 radius to 400 radius.
Bash duration: From 0.8/1.2/1.6/2.0 to 0.6/1.0/1.4/1.8.

I think that bumps him down to a good spot without losing his "identity".
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
pompidu said:
I think some fair nerfs for troll would be,
BattleTrance: From 60/120/180 to 50/100/150.
Whirling Axes: From 450 radius to 400 radius.
Bash duration: From 0.8/1.2/1.6/2.0 to 0.6/1.0/1.4/1.8.

I think that bumps him down to a good spot without losing his "identity".
Click to expand...

This + make skadi not stack with orbs and ok
 
D

DrPizza

Banned
Shuggananas said:
This + make skadi not stack with orbs and ok
Click to expand...

That's so awkward, though. Skadi for years was an item that only Medusa and Morphling would ever buy. Now it's an item that quite a few heroes value, but removing its ability to stack with lifesteal would kill it stone dead. At which point, why even keep it?

If they are to nerf it, it needs to be something along the lines of making the slow a little less potent.
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Shuggananas said:
I guess it was a different region ? Didn't follow the qualifiers
edit : well I have no idea actually, this repartition in the teams is weird as fuck
Click to expand...

Navi lost, they came in third in their bracket and got knocked out. Shira was connived someone would yet again have Visa issues and Navi would be subbed in like last season, but SL moved the finals to Romania to help minimize visa issues.

Also, this is my expected changes to troll:
Whirling Axes changed from 50 to 75 mana per cast
Battle Trance chanced from 75 to 100 mana per cast
Click to expand...
 
P

pompidu

Member
Shuggananas said:
This + make skadi not stack with orbs and ok
Click to expand...

DrPizza said:
That's so awkward, though. Skadi for years was an item that only Medusa and Morphling would ever buy. Now it's an item that quite a few heroes value, but removing its ability to stack with lifesteal would kill it stone dead. At which point, why even keep it?

If they are to nerf it, it needs to be something along the lines of making the slow a little less potent.
Click to expand...

I really dont like changing how items work besides cost. If Icefrog insists on keeping this large gold pool, they need to start making items more expensive.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
DrPizza said:
That's so awkward, though. Skadi for years was an item that only Medusa and Morphling would ever buy. Now it's an item that quite a few heroes value, but removing its ability to stack with lifesteal would kill it stone dead. At which point, why even keep it?

If they are to nerf it, it needs to be something along the lines of making the slow a little less potent.
Click to expand...

Vladmir%27s_Offering_icon.png


hey !
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Skadi on ranged is already pretty broken, but on a hero with 1000+ range ? That's just fuckin insane, the chasing power it gives him is huge, same goes for you trying to close the gap, good luck with skadi+sny+hs on your ass
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Shuggananas said:
This + make skadi not stack with orbs and ok
Click to expand...

Nah, Skadi will get a nerf but this ain't it. The only orb it stacks with is lifesteal. If anything, some of the stats on Skadi might get nerfed, but I'm not even sure it needs a nerf honestly since it's so expensive. I do think Heart could use a buff though. In like 90% of cases Skadi is better right now.

Shuggananas said:
It's pretty common for sniper to go full glass cannon though, without lifesteal
Or you know you can also not buy skadi as well
Click to expand...

It is common but not always recommended. I know plenty of times I've gotten Skadi/suggested it to someone else playing Snipper as a defensive item against an Axe that was getting in my face. Gives you enough survivability for your team to help you without you instantly getting dunked.

On another note, I think it is somewhat stupid that Culling Blade goes through Shallow Grave. It makes sense why, and I understand the logic behind it, but I think it's kind of dumb that it just goes "FUCK YO NOT DIE SPELL". If I remember correctly, wasn't HoN's version of Dazzle's Shallow Grave different, where you basically give a brief duration aegis to someone else rather than not letting them fall below 1HP? One of you HoNGAF people help me out on this.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Why would you even consider nerfing skadi?

The problem with Troll and Sniper rely on the heroes themselves and their abilities, not the items they usually buy (MoM is an exception).
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
Yes it's extremely stupid that culling blade goes through shallow grave and flies in the face not only of logic but also of good taste and decency

It also kills thru False Promise, for reasons. Because I guess being able to kill any hero in the game thru magic immunity wasn't enough it was decided that it should also kill thru the abilities that only exist to prevent heroes being killed 💁
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Shallow Grave stops all damage sources from lowering your HP below 1 but Culling Blade is not a damage source, it instantly lowers your HP to 0 (aka kills) if it is already below a certain threshold.

I think it's just a simple case of one modifier overwriting an existing one.
 
Q

Quesa

Member
If Shallow Grave stops CB it should also prevent Techies from dying from Suicide Squad.

Is that what you want? Is it?

I want it
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
kionedrik said:
Shallow Grave stops all damage sources from lowering your HP below 1 but Culling Blade is not a damage source, it instantly lowers your HP to 0 (aka kills) if it is already below a certain threshold.
Click to expand...
That's not why it does it. It's because Culling Blade removes all buffs from a hero before it deals damage. It's expressly designed to kill thru Grave.

The Shallow Grave description is misleading, tho I don't know it's Alt description.

An ally blessed with Shallow Grave, no matter how close to death, cannot die while under its protection.
Click to expand...
They should add a line on the end, "except for Culling Blade because fuck you".
 
D

DrPizza

Banned
Quesa said:
If Shallow Grave stops CB it should also prevent Techies from dying from Suicide Squad.

Is that what you want? Is it?

I want it
Click to expand...

It would open up a whole new meta: refresher Techies.

Shallow Grave -> Suicide -> Refresh -> Suicide. For a 2300 physical AOE nuke.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
kionedrik said:
Why would you even consider nerfing skadi?

The problem with Troll and Sniper rely on the heroes themselves and their abilities, not the items they usually buy (MoM is an exception).
Click to expand...

because probably over 50% of the carry pool now buys it--when a luxury item becomes this prevalent, it's usually a good time to take it down a notch (ala old daedelus).

I too like the idea of A) making it so it no longer stacks with lifesteal or B) just making every item orb stack with lifesteal. Skadi has been buffed to the point where the orb effect is potent on it's own and comparable to the other orbs, not to mention the stats are absurd. A big reason why heart (and deso/mjolnir) has completely disappeared is because skadi stacks with lifesteal so it pretty much becomes the definitive late game defensive (and utility item). This little exception is no longer necessary, unless you want to see the item nuked in other ways, which I don't.
 
D

DrPizza

Banned
Anbokr said:
because probably over 50% of the carry pool now buys it--when a luxury item becomes this prevalent, it's usually a good time to take it down a notch (ala old daedelus).

I too like the idea of A) making it so it no longer stacks with lifesteal or B) just making every item orb stack with lifesteal. Skadi has been buffed to the point where the orb effect is potent on it's own and comparable to the other orbs, not to mention the stats are absurd. A big reason why heart (and deso/mjolnir) has completely disappeared is because skadi stacks with lifesteal so it pretty much becomes the definitive late game defensive (and utility item). This little exception is no longer necessary, unless you want to see the item nuked in other ways, which I don't.
Click to expand...

I think heart is just a problematic item. Satanic active heals you faster, and lets you heal in battle rather than after backing out. And even if you do back out to heal, the cooldown on Satanic is such that you can heal and have it back off cooldown faster than Heart's 2% manages anyway. Heart still has a role, if you really want the +40 Str instead of Satanic's +25, but it's not the go-to item for "I want a ton of HP", even though that's its entire purpose.
 
K

kionedrik

Member
godelsmetric said:
That's not why it does it. It's because Culling Blade removes all buffs from a hero before it deals damage. It's expressly designed to kill thru Grave.

The Shallow Grave description is misleading, tho I don't know it's Alt description.


They should add a line on the end, "except for Culling Blade because fuck you".
Click to expand...

From here:

Code: 
Axe spots weakness and strikes, dealing moderate damage but instantly killing an enemy unit with low health. When an enemy unit is killed this way, Culling Blade will not go on cooldown.

Anbokr said:
because probably over 50% of the carry pool now buys it--when a luxury item becomes this prevalent, it's usually a good time to take it down a notch (ala old daedelus).

I too like the idea of A) making it so it no longer stacks with lifesteal or B) just making every item orb stack with lifesteal. Skadi has been buffed to the point where the orb effect is potent on it's own and comparable to the other orbs, not to mention the stats are absurd. A big reason why heart (and deso/mjolnir) has completely disappeared is because skadi stacks with lifesteal so it pretty much becomes the definitive late game defensive (and utility item). This little exception is no longer necessary, unless you want to see the item nuked in other ways, which I don't.
Click to expand...

I believe this is linked to the majority of the carry pool being agility heroes, that require, most of the time, to tank up, and skadi is a great item for that. Since they naturaly tend to have high agi gain, their armor and attack speed will be naturally high, so they avoid the need to invest in items like deso o mjolnir.

If the meta changes towards strengh heroes, like many believe, we'll see a significant increase in +attack speed and armor items, because that's what most of them need, which will leave skadi as a second, or even third, choice.

An indirect nerf to skadi could be making deso work with lifesteal. Another idea could be remove orb of venom and add a 400/500g recipe.
 
K

ksan

Member
sny+skadi being a viable item build is fucked up, and its even more fucked up that they can make certain heroes into killing machines
 
T

twobear

sputum-flecked apoplexy
kionedrik said:
From here:

Code: 
Axe spots weakness and strikes, dealing moderate damage but instantly killing an enemy unit with low health. When an enemy unit is killed this way, Culling Blade will not go on cooldown.
Click to expand...
That doesn't refute what I said. Logically speaking, 'can't be killed' overrides 'instantly kills'. If you didn't know the interaction, you wouldn't guess that it works the way it does from the spell descriptions.

It's just a funny interaction that works this way because axe is a more popular hero. Nothing to do with what makes sense or is balanced.
 
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