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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)

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N

NormalFish

Banned
BraXzy said:
Ya'll think that 6.84 is coming but it's not.

7.0 bitches

2 new Heroes day one bitches.

More hats than sense bitches.

#Insider
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I

I H8 Memes

Member
Hylian7 said:
I know the froggy doesn't usually balance around pub Dota, and AM is kind of a fringe pick in pro games, but what would it take to make him relevant again?

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1427092933

In this recent game, it didn't matter how well I farmed, we still lost, I couldn't stop the push that was happening. This is a pattern in most of the AM games I lose. I know other people have the same sentiment: Any kind of "We have to end this now" is a lost game for AM.

In that game above, I took an entire rax by myself, and still had no chance to actually carry my team like a carry. With so many other carries the game may be falling apart around you, but if you farmed well, you still might come back. Medusa and Spectre are great examples of this.

But AM, it's unfortunate the state he's in. How do we make him more relevant?
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I party up regularly with Jambi and Captain Action. I cant tell you how many times Captain Action has bailed our whole team out with that hero just in the last few months. The hero is fine.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I H8 Memes said:
I party up regularly with Jambi and Captain Action. I cant tell you how many times Captain Action has bailed our whole team out with that hero just in the last few months. The hero is fine.
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As long as your team doesn't lose everything without you, sure, he could be, but he really isn't that great right now.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Have your team force a 4v5 fight in a favorable position (like high ground) while you push another lane like a rat. Have them cancel as many TPs as possible too.
AM doesn't push towers very fast, but he pushes wave fast, and with manta you can hurt towers pretty good still

AM is not the greatest teamfight carry, he can do it but other heroes do it better. He's better at farming the whole map and split pushing
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Shuggananas said:
Have your team force a 4v5 fight in a favorable position (like high ground) while you push another lane like a rat. Have them cancel as many TPs as possible too.
AM doesn't push towers very fast, but he pushes wave fast, and with manta you can hurt towers pretty good still

AM is not the greatest teamfight carry, he can do it but other heroes do it better. He's better at farming the whole map and split pushing
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Look at the game above. That was exactly what I did and it did absolutely nothing. The problem is that teams are able to force things faster than he can take all the towers or anything on the map.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
I H8 Memes said:
How are you going to push the whole map with power treads?
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What does that have to do with anything? They're power treads, the standard AM boots. I had Battle Fury and Treads by 16 minutes, even with the game going poorly all around. It did not matter, I was still nonfactor.
 
S

sixghost

Member
Hylian7 said:
Look at the game above. That was exactly what I did and it did absolutely nothing. The problem is that teams are able to force things faster than he can take all the towers or anything on the map.
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479 gpm isn't enough on Antimage if you aren't showing up for fights. You lost at 28 minutes and didn't even have manta.
 
A

Artanisix

Member
Your antimage did not do enough to solo carry the game. Note that this may not be your fault.

A big indicator that things went very bad very quickly is that you, even with battlefury, are equal to or lower level than almost everyone on the enemy team. With how quickly AM powerfarms after acquiring an early bfury, with proper team support, AM will be one of the highest levels on the map and the highest GPM on the map. Your level indicates that your team and maybe even you were piledriven into the dirt before you could even stand up and walk.

All your lanes lost before you could even play your hero.
 
Wok

Wok

Member
Hylian7 said:
I know the froggy doesn't usually balance around pub Dota, and AM is kind of a fringe pick in pro games, but what would it take to make him relevant again?

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1427092933

In this recent game, it didn't matter how well I farmed, we still lost, I couldn't stop the push that was happening. This is a pattern in most of the AM games I lose. I know other people have the same sentiment: Any kind of "We have to end this now" is a lost game for AM.

In that game above, I took an entire rax by myself, and still had no chance to actually carry my team like a carry. With so many other carries the game may be falling apart around you, but if you farmed well, you still might come back. Medusa and Spectre are great examples of this.

But AM, it's unfortunate the state he's in. How do we make him more relevant?
Click to expand...

I don't get the part where Venge is jungle and Morphling solo against a trilane composed of Juggernaut, Silencer and Mirana.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Artanisix said:
Your antimage did not do enough to solo carry the game. Note that this may not be your fault.

A big indicator that things went very bad very quickly is that you, even with battlefury, are equal to or lower level than almost everyone on the enemy team. With how quickly AM powerfarms after acquiring an early bfury, with proper team support, AM will be one of the highest levels on the map and the highest GPM on the map. Your level indicates that your team and maybe even you were piledriven into the dirt before you could even stand up and walk.

All your lanes lost before you could even play your hero.
Click to expand...

That's what I felt like, and this goes back to my point that the hero is generally pretty weak, because he easily loses to this kind of thing.

Wok said:
I don't get the part where Venge is jungle and Morphling solo against a trilane composed of Juggernaut, Silencer and Mirana.
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I'm going to guess that DB being buggy on what she actually did, because she did more roaming and didn't "jungle".
 
H

Hylian7

Member
SteveWinwood said:
am is fine

there are lots of heroes that arent going to be doing anything if your entire team collapses into itself at 15 mins
Click to expand...

AM is more prone to this than almost any other hero in the game in my opinion. They can be knocking on your T3's, and you could take a rax by yourself with Manta and it still might not matter. They will wipe your team and you'll get one rax out of it, while they are killing T4s and you can't defend it. This is typical AM Dota right now.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Unless the enemy is constantly ganking both jungles and ancients, I don't see how you can only have 187 last hits on your antimage at 26 minutes though. Maybe practice more.

With QB + yasha + treads + BF you should farm super fast, especially if the jungle is a bit stacked (but I guess it doesn't happen that much in pubs). If your jungle is too dangerous go to a lane where it's safe or the enemy jungle, shouldn't be a problem
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Shuggananas said:
Unless the enemy is constantly ganking both jungles and ancients, I don't see how you can only have 187 last hits on your antimage at 26 minutes though. Maybe practice more.

With QB + yasha + treads + BF you should farm super fast, especially if the jungle is a bit stacked (but I guess it doesn't happen that much in pubs). If your jungle is too dangerous go to a lane where it's safe or the enemy jungle, shouldn't be a problem
Click to expand...

It certainly felt like they were, I didn't feel safe in a lot of places on the map. Obviously my team was definitely not stacking jungle. I always feel like jungling enemy jungle is a risky proposition.
 
Wok

Wok

Member
Shuggananas said:
Unless the enemy is constantly ganking both jungles and ancients, I don't see how you can only have 187 last hits on your antimage at 26 minutes though. Maybe practice more.

With QB + yasha + treads + BF you should farm super fast, especially if the jungle is a bit stacked (but I guess it doesn't happen that much in pubs). If your jungle is too dangerous go to a lane where it's safe or the enemy jungle, shouldn't be a problem
Click to expand...

If you look at the last hits early game, I think Hylian did pretty okay.

ZPpodue.png
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Wok said:
If you look at the last hits early game, I think Hylian did pretty okay.

ZPpodue.png
Click to expand...

Sums it up pretty well. At those points in the screenshot where I wasn't top of the last hits chart was about the time they were all over the place and I couldn't find anywhere to safely farm.
 
A

Artanisix

Member
AM has pretty good lane strength, actually. If you had proper supports, blink+manaburn provides a lot of kill potential and bullying power.

He's in a fine spot and is used here and there in competitive.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Hylian7 said:
It certainly felt like they were, I didn't feel safe in a lot of places on the map. Obviously my team was definitely not stacking jungle. I always feel like jungling enemy jungle is a risky proposition.
Click to expand...

Were your supports buying wards? If not, buy them yourself if that's what it takes to secure some farm. 150 gold isn't much to buy security, hell buy some sentries too.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
BlastProcessing said:
Were your supports buying wards? If not, buy them yourself if that's what it takes to secure some farm. 150 gold isn't much to buy security, hell buy some sentries too.
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They were, the problem was just we could see them coming and mostly everywhere turned into a "no-no" zone very quickly.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Re: Anti-mage...

I think Clinkz does what antimage does almost as well right now. Clinkz pushes towers harder, pushes lanes decently fast and is almost as slippery. Vastly prefer playing both as Clinkz and against Clinkz as well.
 
S

Smithy C

Member
Just played against a team of Jugg, Troll, Sniper, Tiny and qop.

They had the gall to shit-talk us after we put up a good fight for like 40 minutes.

I can't wait for this balance patch to render all 5 of these heroes completely useless.
 
J

JawesomeJaw

Member
Smithy C said:
Just played against a team of Jugg, Troll, Sniper, Tiny and qop.

They had the gall to shit-talk us after we put up a good fight for like 40 minutes.

I can't wait for this balance patch to render all 5 of these heroes completely useless.
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Tiny needs buffs, duh.

And you can't judge a rock man by the company he keeps.
 
J

JawesomeJaw

Member
But really though, Bristle is already really strong. He got a buff he didn't need last patch and if he gets anything this patch he might be our juggernaut or at least get up there in impossible to kill high pun win rates like Abby or Omni.
 
K

Kade

Member
Unfinished basement, toques, unkempt hair, basketball shorts. This is the stream of a group of guys who have given up.
 
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