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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)

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Haunted

Haunted

Member
SteveWinwood said:
arcanes vanguard mek crimson greaves pipe

yummy

I dunno greaves is like super expensive makes it hard to get mid game

I think it's just further item slot consolidation for supports for late game
Click to expand...
Yeah 1650 for the recipe means you either skip the Vanguard or have to wait until later in the game to consolidate the Boots + Mek into one slot.

The additional armour aura for the team might make it worth prioritising over Vanguard -> Crimson though.




Also, Hylian, you're an alright dude that seems to fall for trolls easily. Don't let those hon players drive you out.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
I think guardian greaves are the most underrated item in these notes. Gzzz got it yesterday on pugna and the game IMMEDIATELY turned a corner. It gives amazing sustain and survivability to the entire team (I think we took 3-4 fights at the enemy raxx before backing) and i just such a nice boost to a carry that doesn't prioritize survivability in the early to mid game.

With the way gold works now, a 5 will probably be able to afford it at some point, maybe 30-35 minutes, but it really shines on a hero like pugna. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid core like SF maybe getting it for the entire team, or of course, heroes like enigma, visage, or like some of you suggested, undying. Makes deathball A LOT stronger.

Also, a Huskar with at least armlet + lifesteal + lvl4 inner vitality paired with a teammate that has guardian greaves is going to be nigh unkillable. Should be a fun patch.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Hylian7 said:
What exactly does one do about mana on Invoker? I know people have always skipped bottle on that hero since the dawn of time basically, but what exactly covers your mana problems before early game. Assuming you go Quas Wex, you're going to need the mana to gank unless you should just play it like most other mids, and farm til you have Euls or something.
Click to expand...

mangoes
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Hylian7 said:
What exactly does one do about mana on Invoker? I know people have always skipped bottle on that hero since the dawn of time basically, but what exactly covers your mana problems before early game. Assuming you go Quas Wex, you're going to need the mana to gank unless you should just play it like most other mids, and farm til you have Euls or something.
Click to expand...

EMP gives you a ton of mana back if it hits 1-2 heroes. Your first item should be orchid as a quas/wex invoker, and one oblivion staff paired with your int growth pretty much solves your mana issues (along with hitting EMP's during ganks).
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
EMP gives you a ton of mana back if it hits 1-2 heroes. Your first item should be orchid as a quas/wex invoker, and one oblivion staff paired with your int growth pretty much solves your mana issues (along with hitting EMP's during ganks).
Click to expand...

So in that case I'm guessing the go-to combo is basically Tornado EMP. Once you get the orchid is it worth a value point in exort to get Alacrity?
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Hylian7 said:
So in that case I'm guessing the go-to combo is basically Tornado EMP. Once you get the orchid is it worth a value point in exort to get Alacrity?
Click to expand...

tornado ---> emp ---> cold snap or cold snap ---> emp ---> tornado.

After you get your orchid, you can probably get many support kills off just cold snap ---> tornado, but it never hurts to throw out an EMP just in case (and prevent a counter gank). This is the early/laning combo though, as the game goes later you want to be using more spells.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
tornado ---> emp ---> cold snap or cold snap ---> emp ---> tornado.

After you get your orchid, you can probably get many support kills off just cold snap ---> tornado, but it never hurts to throw out an EMP just in case (and prevent a counter gank).
Click to expand...

Gotcha. Should you pick up a value point in Wex at all or just skip it until you max Quas and Wex?
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Hylian7 said:
Gotcha. Should you pick up a value point in Wex at all or just skip it until you max Quas and Exort?
Click to expand...

I thought you said you wanted to play quas/wex? If you're playing quas/exort, then disregard all I said above. Quas/exort is pretty much the afk farm and snipe people with sunstrike until you have necro3 (and can deathball with your team) or euls/blink (and can blink --> euls --> sunstrike ---> deafening blast ---> meteor one shot people). With quas/exort you really only need 4 points in quas (for double forge spirits), then you start putting points into wex to get access to meteor, deafening blast, and the like.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
I thought you said you wanted to play quas/wex? If you're playing quas/exort, then disregard all I said above. Quas/exort is pretty much the afk farm and snipe people with sunstrike until you have necro3 (and can deathball with your team) or euls/blink (and can blink --> euls --> sunstrike ---> deafening blast ---> meteor one shot people).
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was a typo. I meant Quas/Wex. But that's good advice if I want to try Quas Exort
 
K

kionedrik

Member
Anbokr said:
I think guardian greaves are the most underrated item in these notes. Gzzz got it yesterday on pugna and the game IMMEDIATELY turned a corner. It gives amazing sustain and survivability to the entire team (I think we took 3-4 fights at the enemy raxx before backing) and i just such a nice boost to a carry that doesn't prioritize survivability in the early to mid game.

With the way gold works now, a 5 will probably be able to afford it at some point, maybe 30-35 minutes, but it really shines on a hero like pugna. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid core like SF maybe getting it for the entire team, or of course, heroes like enigma, visage, or like some of you suggested, undying. Makes deathball A LOT stronger.
Click to expand...

It was me not Gzzz but your point still stands. I felt really strong and survivable with them, never went back to base again since I had all the sustain I needed to farm, fight and push when the time was appropriate. It's really a great item.

I think it's tailor-made for some spell casting offlaners like Timber or Omni or some mids like Pugna or even Necro. Apart from them, I think #4 are more likely to get it and #5 get vlads.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Hylian7 said:
Yeah, that was a typo. I meant Quas/Wex. But that's good advice if I want to try Quas Exort
Click to expand...

Quas/wex you want to max wex asap, and keep around 3-4 points in quas. After that, you can start maxing exort to transition into late game or you can be a lazy hoe like me and max quas for maximum cold snap damage. The latter is usually a lot more subpar, and you really should start putting points into exort in order to get your full arsenal of spells. Like I said though, I'm not the best invoker (and a lazy one), so I'll just start maxing quas for ez cold snaps.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
Quas/wex you want to max wex asap, and keep around 3-4 points in quas. After that, you can start maxing exort to transition into late game or you can be a lazy hoe like me and max quas for maximum cold snap damage. The latter is usually a lot more subpar, and you really should start putting points into exort in order to get your full arsenal of spells. Like I said though, I'm not the best invoker (and a lazy one), so I'll just start maxing quas for ez cold snaps.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. So is there any situation where you would max Quas first? The way you talk about it it doesn't sound like there is.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
kionedrik said:
It was me not Gzzz but your point still stands. I felt really strong and survivable with them, never went back to base again since I had all the sustain I needed to farm, fight and push when the time was appropriate. It's really a great item.

I think it's tailor-made for some spell casting offlaners like Timber or Omni or some mids like Pugna or even Necro. Apart from them, I think #4 are more likely to get it and #5 get vlads.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah shit, sorry. I'm used to gzz playing pugna because he drafts it for himself all the time. gj btw, but yeah, point is the same. We were able to sustain w/o going back to well for like 4-5 different fights at the enemy base thanks to guardian greaves lol.

Hylian7 said:
Makes sense. So is there any situation where you would max Quas first? The way you talk about it it doesn't sound like there is.
Click to expand...

No.
 
shira

shira

Member
Satch said:
kard do you have a wii u
if you do, are you going to buy x e n o b l a d e
Click to expand...

I read it as wii u but my brain processed it as waifu.
facepalm.gif
 
A

A Sentient Keyboard

Member
I wonder how Jakiro is gonna do this patch. Guardian Greaves and Octarine Core both seem like solid items on him, and the bigger focus on objectives in 6.84 might make deathball a little stronger again.

EDIT: also his ult is a little less garbage now. Maybe one day it will not be the second worst ult in the game.
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Hylian7 said:
Sounds to me like this.

QW = teamfight, anti-deathball
QE = lategame, decent mid-game.
Click to expand...

late game your goal is to understand how fights will develop and use your skills based on your team's needs.

don't throw tornado unless you're initiating/disengaging or chasing. throwing it in the middle of a team fight can interrupt your own teams offense and give enemy heroes time to TP in and make a difference.

don't forget you have alacrity and ice path. they his 2 strongest late-game abilities. drop alacrity on your carry and watch them do their best ulted Troll Warlord impression. drop icepath to cover the enemy escape or to provide a barrier that is difficult for them to cross.

always hit as many autoattackers with deafening blast as possible. it's not about the pushback or damage; it's about the disarm. If you can, wait out bkb's before using it. it's a big fucking deal and missing your target can lose your team a team fight.

look at the tooltips and know how much lift time your tornado has so that you know what order you need to put it in to make sure the enemy target(s) get hit by the EMP. In early levels you will want to lead with

EMP --> cold snap and chase with tornado after

OR initiate with tornado with Invoke off CD so you can quickly invoke cold snap after dropping the EMP. That will look like

Tornado --> EMP --> Invoke ColdSnap --> ColdSnap

In later levels you can intiate from a bit of distance with tornado and drop emp and it will still hit without absolutely needing cold snap.

Once you have 4 points in Q and E, keep spirits up as much as possible. They are your farming assistants at minimum.

Rush phase boots if you're having trouble last-hitting. Trying to rush a Midas when you can't get any CS in the first place puts you farther behind and makes you even less relevant early and early-midgame.

eh, that's all I got.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
late game your goal is to understand how fights will develop and use your skills based on your team's needs.

don't throw tornado unless you're initiating/disengaging or chasing. throwing it in the middle of a team fight can interrupt your own teams offense and give enemy heroes time to TP in and make a difference.

don't forget you have alacrity and ice path. they his 2 strongest late-game abilities. drop alacrity on your carry and watch them do their best ulted Troll Warlord impression. drop icepath to cover the enemy escape or to provide a barrier that is difficult for them to cross.

always hit as many autoattackers with deafening blast as possible. it's not about the pushback or damage; it's about the disarm. If you can, wait out bkb's before using it. it's a big fucking deal and missing your target can lose your team a team fight.

look at the tooltips and know how much lift time your tornado has so that you know what order you need to put it in to make sure the enemy target(s) get hit by the EMP. In early levels you will want to lead with

EMP --> cold snap and chase with tornado after

OR initiate with tornado with Invoke off CD so you can quickly invoke cold snap after dropping the EMP. That will look like

Tornado --> EMP --> Invoke ColdSnap --> ColdSnap

In later levels you can intiate from a bit of distance with tornado and drop emp and it will still hit without absolutely needing cold snap.

Once you have 4 points in Q and E, keep spirits up as much as possible. They are your farming assistants at minimum.

Rush phase boots if you're having trouble last-hitting. Trying to rush a Midas when you can't get any CS in the first place puts you farther behind and makes you even less relevant early and early-midgame.

eh, that's all I got.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll take this stuff into account. I'm probably going to another Invoker stream tonight.
 
S

SteveWinwood

Member
Hylian7 said:
Sounds to me like this.

QW = teamfight, anti-deathball
QE = lategame, decent mid-game.
Click to expand...

thats probably a decent gist of it

granted there is a lot of variety you can play with on him how early you feel comfortable putting a point in the off skill of your build to adequately use his whole set of skills and certainly item builds (when or if to get aghs for example, i get it because i have poor skill management, but if you can keep a calm head and use your skills well you really shouldnt need it unless youre trying to get on a xx420invokerplayzxx youtube video)

a lot of players underestimate his right click and forget to use it outside of an occasional cold snap kill, but generally in fights he can just right click almost as well as any other semi carry (well depending on your e and w)

skill management is super important as invoke has a shit cooldown for so long, so you have to think like 30 seconds ahead and know what you need to have a third skill able to invoke when you get there

dont waste your spells on stupid shit early or else youll be going back to base a lot (unneeded sunstrikes or random tornadoes/meteors to clear creepwaves etc)

for qe the skill pattern is first skill q or e (defensive or aggressive in lane? are they ranged and going to bully you? or do you want to last hit better and youll be fine?) than the other, than an invoke (a lot of this can be shuffled around depending on how comfortable you are with him, and when you watch pro players on him you'll notice they all have little quirks they do differently) then you just get 4 e and 4 q to get your two forge spirits where you stop leveling q max e, get some w, run around like an asshole kill things

practice
gCc6t4h.gif
's, practice last hits so you know how to do it with him

also just spam shit like in sc2 for max apms... i mean not really but when youre not actually attacking to get a last hit you should be 3 q for regen instantly 3 e for a quick attack and then back to 3 q, practice that and you get good regen and high damage for bully or last hit, its like tread switching you just need to practice

the stuff about knowing how to actually invoke yeah thats important but whatever that takes like 10 mins of learning

edit dreams post gud too
 
H

Hylian7

Member
SteveWinwood said:
thats probably a decent gist of it

granted there is a lot of variety you can play with on him how early you feel comfortable putting a point in the off skill of your build to adequately use his whole set of skills and certainly item builds (when or if to get aghs for example, i get it because i have poor skill management, but if you can keep a calm head and use your skills well you really shouldnt need it unless youre trying to get on a xx420invokerplayzxx youtube video)

a lot of players underestimate his right click and forget to use it outside of an occasional cold snap kill, but generally in fights he can just right click almost as well as any other semi carry (well depending on your e and w)

skill management is super important as invoke has a shit cooldown for so long, so you have to think like 30 seconds ahead and know what you need to have a third skill able to invoke when you get there

dont waste your spells on stupid shit early or else youll be going back to base a lot (unneeded sunstrikes or random tornadoes/meteors to clear creepwaves etc)

for qe the skill pattern is first skill q or e (defensive or aggressive in lane? are they ranged and going to bully you? or do you want to last hit better and youll be fine?) than the other, than an invoke (a lot of this can be shuffled around depending on how comfortable you are with him, and when you watch pro players on him you'll notice they all have little quirks they do differently) then you just get 4 e and 4 q to get your two forge spirits where you stop leveling q max e, get some w, run around like an asshole kill things

practice
gCc6t4h.gif
's, practice last hits so you know how to do it with him

also just spam shit like in sc2 for max apms... i mean not really but when youre not actually attacking to get a last hit you should be 3 q for regen instantly 3 e for a quick attack and then back to 3 q, practice that and you get good regen and high damage for bully or last hit, its like tread switching you just need to practice

the stuff about knowing how to actually invoke yeah thats important but whatever that takes like 10 mins of learning

edit dreams post gud too
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll also keep this stuff in mind.
 
A

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
So apparantly ebola spirit's silence duration was ninja buffed up to 3/4/5/6 seconds (not in the patch notes for whatever reason)... and on top of the damage rescale on boulder--this now means the hero is a little worse early on, but even more cancerous mid to late game.

the fuck are you doin icefraud
 
shira

shira

Member
$98k, MLG2: Austin Jun 4-7 Q: Empire, EG +6
$322k MarsTV Shanghai June 3-7 Q: LGD +7
t1433437200z1.png


Interesting MLG and MarsTV going head to head. June 4th.
 
S

Shuggananas

Banned
Anbokr said:
So apparantly ebola spirit's silence duration was ninja buffed up to 3/4/5/6 seconds (not in the patch notes for whatever reason)... and on top of the damage rescale on boulder--this now means the hero is a little worse early on, but even more cancerous mid to late game.

the fuck are you doin icefraud
Click to expand...
Ebola is necrophos not earth spirit
 
H

Hylian7

Member
Anbokr said:
So apparantly ebola spirit's silence duration was ninja buffed up to 3/4/5/6 seconds (not in the patch notes for whatever reason)... and on top of the damage rescale on boulder--this now means the hero is a little worse early on, but even more cancerous mid to late game.

the fuck are you doin icefraud
Click to expand...

Wait what?! Oh god...

[Magnetism intensifies]

shira said:
$98k, MLG2: Austin Jun 4-7 Q: Empire, EG +6
$322k MarsTV Shanghai June 3-7 Q: LGD +7
t1433437200z1.png


Interesting MLG and MarsTV going head to head. June 4th.
Click to expand...

A tournament in my back yard that I can't go to. GG.

I'm going to TI though so whatever.
 
N

NotoriousPUG

Member
Anbokr said:
So apparantly ebola spirit's silence duration was ninja buffed up to 3/4/5/6 seconds (not in the patch notes for whatever reason)... and on top of the damage rescale on boulder--this now means the hero is a little worse early on, but even more cancerous mid to late game.

the fuck are you doin icefraud
Click to expand...

He has been nerfed to trash tier
 
I

inkls

Member
Anbokr said:
So apparantly ebola spirit's silence duration was ninja buffed up to 3/4/5/6 seconds (not in the patch notes for whatever reason)... and on top of the damage rescale on boulder--this now means the hero is a little worse early on, but even more cancerous mid to late game.

the fuck are you doin icefraud
Click to expand...

purgable ult tho. Which I think was the core of his mid-late teamfight contribution
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
if ur not utilizing ghost walk as quas/wex you might as well go ice wall meteor tornado atos

ghost walk -> orchid -> cold snap -> emp/tornado is a great way to kill just about anything that isnt a strength hero.

necro3 invoker is really weak right now, may change in 684 with the necro buff. atm I still suggest euls comboing kids, as its pretty much a completely safe kill on a single target.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
NotoriousPUG said:
Shhhh, let's get him buffed
Click to expand...

I love the hero, but I don't want to go back to 6.79. Hero is still soo gud.

1.09 said:
if ur not utilizing ghost walk as quas/wex you might as well go ice wall meteor tornado atos

ghost walk -> orchid -> cold snap -> emp/tornado is a great way to kill just about anything that isnt a strength hero.

necro3 invoker is really weak right now, may change in 684 with the necro buff. atm I still suggest euls comboing kids, as its pretty much a completely safe kill on a single target.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was curious about the Euls combo. I see people do it and it definitely seems like it stays relevant for a while, but was wondering if it ever falls off like Euls SF does.
 
1

1.09

Low Tier
euls sf falls off at the point where he's selling the item to finish his 6th item wtf is ur blind hatred for the best item on sf

euls invoker is similar story.
 
C

Calidor

Member
Anbokr said:
I think guardian greaves are the most underrated item in these notes. Gzzz got it yesterday on pugna and the game IMMEDIATELY turned a corner. It gives amazing sustain and survivability to the entire team (I think we took 3-4 fights at the enemy raxx before backing) and i just such a nice boost to a carry that doesn't prioritize survivability in the early to mid game.

With the way gold works now, a 5 will probably be able to afford it at some point, maybe 30-35 minutes, but it really shines on a hero like pugna. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid core like SF maybe getting it for the entire team, or of course, heroes like enigma, visage, or like some of you suggested, undying. Makes deathball A LOT stronger.

Also, a Huskar with at least armlet + lifesteal + lvl4 inner vitality paired with a teammate that has guardian greaves is going to be nigh unkillable. Should be a fun patch.
Click to expand...

I think it will work great with the Doctor. Specially the considering the buff that kicks in once the ally is below 20% with Voodoo restoration.

It is a 60HP Regen + 250 instant heal + 160 Mana + 17 armor, and can be applied FOR THE WHOLE TEAM
crazy.gif


In comparison, a Bottling Tethered Wisp gives you 200Hp aprox per charge
 
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