tsunami643
Member
mfw we're still on OT9
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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
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Do you want to refute my points?
Honestly hope someone else looks at the replay and confirms what I was saying as I watched you play for 50 minutes. I don't know why it's so hard to let go of your preconceived notions. AM is a carry that can contribute to fights relatively early in a big way. ESPECIALLY since you had 83CS at 12 minutes. If you never use your advantage it isn't one.
If you can't adapt 6.84 is going to do horrible things if you keep playing ranked.
He's good in early fights vs storm and skywrath if you come in the second half of the fight.
Wonderboy91
Member
I feel like people keep saying "adapt to 6.84" when nobody really has an idea of what that is yet. I don't think its a super helpful piece of criticism.
SteveWinwood
Member
are we going to have a new op this time or is it going to be techno just reposting the old one for the fourth time
someone needs to just pull a ihl2 and do it because milk is never going to say he won't
someone needs to just pull a ihl2 and do it because milk is never going to say he won't
one way to get experience of how to beat the average 6.84 pub game is to play lots of bot matches
SteveWinwood
Member
taken by itself id agree
but it's the larger theme that he never adapts for anything ever regardless of patch, heroes, item choices, anything
Its the fucking thunderdome format tournament.
SteveWinwood
Member
best format
I think that's an important subtlety; AM can't afford to eat the Skywrath silence or Storm pull, but once those high int heroes are low on mana, he can clear up.
I watched his entire game. I think you can safely say that letting your team wipe 4v5 vs a Lycan is bad in any patch and worse in this one than before.
And his team had Global Silence + Ravage + CM
Wonderboy91
Member
To be honest in this instance I don't really disagree with him. Looking at the dotabuff it just looks like a game where your 2nd highest networth player is a CM. Probably just the sort of game you have to let go.
Edit: Never mind tides probably had more relevant items than cm, the lotus orb looks ok, given the number of hexes and abyssal.
Wonderboy91
Member
Im honestly not that invested in it.
Haunted
Member
The Silencer seemed to be using global like a jackass tbh.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
It's simply untrue that AM requires Manta to contribute to a fight. He puts out fair damage and is decently survivable with BFury and Vlads. Or you could get a plain Yasha and fight a bit prior to Manta.
I'm not saying that once you've got BFury and Yasha you say "I have completed farming" and push mid. You can still farm most of the time. But once you're on your feet you need to contribute to big fights if your team is struggling. You will not be able to solo carry in that situation when your opponent has been winning teamfight after teamfight. If your team is doing well you can continue to AFK farm. You can't treat every match as the same PvE challenge.
I'm not saying that once you've got BFury and Yasha you say "I have completed farming" and push mid. You can still farm most of the time. But once you're on your feet you need to contribute to big fights if your team is struggling. You will not be able to solo carry in that situation when your opponent has been winning teamfight after teamfight. If your team is doing well you can continue to AFK farm. You can't treat every match as the same PvE challenge.
Wonderboy91
Member
Ok I watched like 5 minutes from where you linked there, but it didnt really change my view on anything.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
Voted for Medusa (Disruptor), Sven, Drow, Sand King, Templar Assassin, Doom, Chaos Knight, Skywrath Mage, Zeus, Earth Spirit, Abbadon, Shadow Shaman, Ember Spirit, Naga Siren, Puck, Morphlin
Silencer and rest of team is mid with ultis ready pinging. Tide is getting his blink on courier. They are at enemy T2.
You think he should keep farming? These are game losing decisions.
Wonderboy91
Member
To be honest that didnt look like a good fight to me. I didnt really get why his team was so into forcing it.
This I think is a fair criticism, I know my map awareness needs work.
Regarding the "AM can fight" thing though. I don't think it works that way. Almost every single tiem I have asked for AM advice from other people or in this thread, people say "Just don't fight until you have Manta" not much on the hero is changed, so why is this not still true?
Just to reiterate on my point even though Haz already kinda did, you can fight early as AM with those two items if your team is built around it like yours was. They had a Storm on their team and you are AM, just your ult on Storm alone does a shit ton of damage in team fights and if placed right can blow up their entire team even without the help of yours.
I linked you games with AM where he obviously fought early and his team won by a large margin because of it. A six slotted AM can't do much against an entire team with farm but if you had joined your team early on like everyone else is pointing out you wouldn't have been the only one on your team that had farm and you would have probably won the game.
It isn't true any longer because the meta changed. You had a team built around team fights and if fought properly you could have helped your team without any real worry. AM's ult against Storm and Sky can absolutely destroy entire teams.
The actual engagement was not good, but he should have been there as a decision.
Early advantages are worth more, comeback is lessened. You had a power spike, etc.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Because you seem to take every piece of wisdom regarding this game as being 100% true all the time and the game just doesn't work that way.
Yes, Anti-Mage is a hard carry. He benefits from hard farm early game and is not a strong early game fighter. Some metas reward hard farming more than others.
This does not mean NEVER fight early game. Every single hero can contribute to a fight in some way at any stage of the match. That's the entire goddamn point of Dota. You need to evaluate who your hero is, what their general goals are (NOT ironclad goals), what your team is doing, what the enemy is doing, and where you are in relation to all those things. If you treat every single game the same way you'll never improve. It's just that simple.
edit: Furthermore you always seem to completely discount what your teammates say and become adversarial no matter what it is and whether it's 1 saying it or all 4. We all know there are idiots in this game but sometimes you are the one who is wrong, and even if you're right you need to at least consider working with them, even if you disagree that their plan is the best one. It's a team game.
At a certain point in this match we're discussing you've got a BFury, manta, Abyssal, etc. and you're still refusing to fight because "AM doesn't teamfight." You're just wrong. AM can completely dominate a teamfight if he's farmed well, which you were.
Yes, Anti-Mage is a hard carry. He benefits from hard farm early game and is not a strong early game fighter. Some metas reward hard farming more than others.
This does not mean NEVER fight early game. Every single hero can contribute to a fight in some way at any stage of the match. That's the entire goddamn point of Dota. You need to evaluate who your hero is, what their general goals are (NOT ironclad goals), what your team is doing, what the enemy is doing, and where you are in relation to all those things. If you treat every single game the same way you'll never improve. It's just that simple.
edit: Furthermore you always seem to completely discount what your teammates say and become adversarial no matter what it is and whether it's 1 saying it or all 4. We all know there are idiots in this game but sometimes you are the one who is wrong, and even if you're right you need to at least consider working with them, even if you disagree that their plan is the best one. It's a team game.
At a certain point in this match we're discussing you've got a BFury, manta, Abyssal, etc. and you're still refusing to fight because "AM doesn't teamfight." You're just wrong. AM can completely dominate a teamfight if he's farmed well, which you were.
poppedcollar69
Member
that comic was just more shitty lore for a hero with exceptionally shitty lore
I don't always discount what teammates say, that simply isn't true, but I'm not going to do something just because a teammate says to do it if I know it's stupid. It's like how the Silencer wanted me to do the 10-man idiot dance on the mid lane and then kept saying "farm more" sarcastically.
I didn't refuse to fight when I had all those items. I refused to take BAD fights, but did not refuse to fight. It turned out to be a very difficult team to teamfight into. I mean fighting a Lycan that's running around crazy fast, even with Abyssal, is very hard it turns out.
I actually kept tryign to ult Storm but he always managed to juke me out of vision and I could never get the ulti off.
Probably the single most frustrating thing in pub games is you telling your teammates "Please don't fight this." when you know it's a bad fight, and they go in anyway. It's a coordination thing, but it really does get frustrating when they know it's a bad idea and still go in regardless. I just don't go into fights like that, as going in and being the 5th man to feed is pointless.
I skipped and watched some moments of the game. There were a lot of game losing decisions, like everywhere.
wtf is this shit:-
http://www.twitch.tv/hylian7/b/656525649?t=57m30s
3 heroes pushing while your supports are defending, CM and Orge. Lol. This is like the dumbest shit ever.
I watched some other moments too, Your team kills Lycan and don't push when you have the creep wave at their T2. Like its free racks or a forced bb if he has bb money.
I'm sure there's more in this game but this game is just bad plays for days.
But this is how you support a AM,:-
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1444685683
We literally played the game 4v5
I skipped and watched some moments of the game. There were a lot of game losing decisions, like everywhere.
wtf is this shit:-
http://www.twitch.tv/hylian7/b/656525649?t=57m30s
3 heroes pushing while your supports are defending, CM and Orge. Lol. This is like the dumbest shit ever.
I watched some other moments too, Your team kills Lycan and don't push when you have the creep wave at their T2. Like its free racks or a forced bb if he has bb money.
I'm sure there's more in this game but this game is just bad plays for days.
But this is how you support a AM,:-
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1444685683
We literally played the game 4v5
Yeah, I panicked in that play. I still have a problem doing that sometimes.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
If the team's that insistent on fighting and you can't rat then you don't really have a choice. You're obligated to fight with them because if you don't and they choose to continue fighting you'll lose regardless.
I queued into blackmoore today with vivioggi and co and asked him when is the next giant bomb tournament going to be and he was like: "Sorry to burst your bubble but it ain't happening"
My poor bubbles
They beat us in the finals. GAF was 1, 2, 3 or something. Wasn't Guidos third?
My poor bubbles
They beat us in the finals. GAF was 1, 2, 3 or something. Wasn't Guidos third?
Yeah AM and two team fight heroes are alone with no ulti. That's not his fault. Calling a back saying to wait for ulti is something to work on and make calls to your team about what to do.
Got me into Dota
Yeah AM and two team fight heroes are alone with no ulti. That's not his fault. Calling a back saying to wait for ulti is something to work on and make calls to your team about what to do.
Got me into Dota
Wait wait, I'm confused, who was he saying made the mistake there, me or the supports or some combination or both? I mean yeah we should have backed there.
Yep, I casted the finals.
Correct decision was to back. You didn't, but your Tide blinked past rax with no ulti to... anchor smash a skywrath?
Shoulda just looked at ulti timers and NOPE'd the fuck outta there and told your team why
sleverfunk
Member
Gyro is ez mmr this patch.
I queued into blackmoore today with vivioggi and co and asked him when is the next giant bomb tournament going to be and he was like: "Sorry to burst your bubble but it ain't happening"
My poor bubbles
They beat us in the finals. GAF was 1, 2, 3 or something. Wasn't Guidos third?
RIP ViviOggi's prediction.
poppedcollar69
Member
that enigma item actually 100% looks like he's wearing water wings
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