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DOTA 2 |OT9| League of Ancients (6.84)
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
- Start date
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Comments like "gg ez" might be bad mannered but they're pretty innocuous compared to some actual toxic behavior. They really shouldn't be taken so seriously, but 99.9% of us that play this game take any minor slight as a personal affront since we're already of pissy disposition just by merely booting up the client. It's on you to learn how to let that minor stuff roll off you. You're gonna lose games and kids and immature fucks are going to rub it in. That's just competition and not inherent only to Dota.
If someone is shit talking you in all chat directly, just mute them. If someone is shit talking you in all chat directly and you won the game, why are you even mad? When I win a game regardless of my feeding and someone throws shade it's so easy to turn it around and say how bad they are that they couldn't win the game 6v4.
If someone is shit talking you in all chat directly, just mute them. If someone is shit talking you in all chat directly and you won the game, why are you even mad? When I win a game regardless of my feeding and someone throws shade it's so easy to turn it around and say how bad they are that they couldn't win the game 6v4.
Do you know what's even easier than not getting pissy about it?
Not saying it to begin with!
The people I don't get are the ones who rage over voice, ping spam and write out long rants only to suddenly tone switch the minute you do something they approve of. Like thanks but that doesn't make up for some of the shit you said earlier. I didn't save you for your approval, I just calculated I could do it without dying. Also yelling doesn't make the team better but the enemy being garbage at going high ground and wiping several times will indeed lead to a comeback, no one on our team magically learned to play better during that time but I swear that's what some people take away from those situations.
On the other hand I've learned to mute people who start out being foul mouthed dicks before the counter hits zero or who react to my using the mic with sexist comments and jokes. The likelihood they will say anything useful isn't worth the irritation and stress that will actually make me play poorly.
All in all I've had less problems with the community than I expected after hearing what moba communities were like but the few times shit got really bad I was shocked at how terrible some people could be. The few times I've had to report someone for truly bad behavior have all resulted in me being informed later that action was taken + here's a fresh report etc.
On the other hand I've learned to mute people who start out being foul mouthed dicks before the counter hits zero or who react to my using the mic with sexist comments and jokes. The likelihood they will say anything useful isn't worth the irritation and stress that will actually make me play poorly.
All in all I've had less problems with the community than I expected after hearing what moba communities were like but the few times shit got really bad I was shocked at how terrible some people could be. The few times I've had to report someone for truly bad behavior have all resulted in me being informed later that action was taken + here's a fresh report etc.
idk, I've seen plenty of teams that were arguing and bitching among themselves that only started playing as teams when it came to a high ground defence. The successful first defence leads to improved attitudes and better teamplay, and a virtuous circle forms.
I think it's because with the right team composition you can pull off that defence without necessarily working together (even if only because everyone just unloads their ults), which provides the first seeds of positivity.
SilentRacoon
Member
Fucking comebacks, all you gotta do is to go all tortoise mode, wait for them to make mistakes and sit back as troll wins the game, gg ez.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Fuck you, maintenance
Is this worldwide?
Is this worldwide?
Apparently for the second time in a row they've patched the game without patching the GC.
Sometimes, I really wish Valve was run like a proper company, or at the very least, they had a proper fucking dev team for Dota 2. You know, one to do those boring tasks like "testing that shit works before you deploy it into fucking production".
But because they can just pick and choose whatever they do, they don't have people doing such tasks (or so they told me when I took the tour at TI4). On some levels it's not surprising, but it is tremendously irritating as a player of the game.
Sometimes, I really wish Valve was run like a proper company, or at the very least, they had a proper fucking dev team for Dota 2. You know, one to do those boring tasks like "testing that shit works before you deploy it into fucking production".
But because they can just pick and choose whatever they do, they don't have people doing such tasks (or so they told me when I took the tour at TI4). On some levels it's not surprising, but it is tremendously irritating as a player of the game.
Reddit down as well?
What does it all mean?
PRMinati confirmed.
Gabe client.
What does it all mean?
PRMinati confirmed.
Gabe client.
Game client.
The_Hitcher89
Member
What is GC?
Cyborgmatt
Member
Game Coordinator.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
With regard to support riki: Guys, the point of the atos is to annoy and disable enemies from outside dust range. Milk makes the enemy team feel and fear his presence not because of the threat of the solo kill, which is certainly possible if you snowball enough, but because they can't catch him and they don't know if he is precipitating a gank.
The next question here is "Why not just threaten the solo kill with a more aggressive intended item build?" and the answer is that it's not worth the risk. A non-farming riki that went for a diffusal is likely just going to be complete paper, you'll get dusted or sentried and die if you put one toe out of line. Compared to the atos where you run around slowing, eulsing, constantly pressuring the enemy while being entirely, or at least mostly, safe in doing so. Not to sound like a dick here but this is the reasoning for the games that we play (I think), at lower levels you might be able to get away with more assuming people are more lax in their detection buying or positioning.
The next question here is "Why not just threaten the solo kill with a more aggressive intended item build?" and the answer is that it's not worth the risk. A non-farming riki that went for a diffusal is likely just going to be complete paper, you'll get dusted or sentried and die if you put one toe out of line. Compared to the atos where you run around slowing, eulsing, constantly pressuring the enemy while being entirely, or at least mostly, safe in doing so. Not to sound like a dick here but this is the reasoning for the games that we play (I think), at lower levels you might be able to get away with more assuming people are more lax in their detection buying or positioning.
Game Coordinator; server component that (I think, I'm sure Cyborgmatt would know for sure) is responsible for grouping people into games and then finding an actual gameplay server for them.
The_Hitcher89
Member
#TeamGameClient 
Thanks guys
Thanks guys
you still are nuts, we're not real hylian
Haunted
Member
That's fantastic. We know they build all those stats while the game is played. I always thought it was stupid that I couldn't see the Gold and XP graphs after a game until I went into the replay.
The Starcraft 1 results screen is more featured and complete, think about that for a moment.
Diffusal 1 gives 2.8 armor. On a level 16 Riki with no other stat items, that's an extra 181 EHP, compared to Atos' 350. So while I don't disagree that the Atos gives more raw EHP, but I don't believe that this is a night-and-day difference (especially as the game right now seems to favour physical DPSers over magic nukers).
I don't get how either of those things pressure the enemy if there's no follow-up. And if you're following up, that Diffusal is going to do a hell of a lot more for you than the Atos.
Diffusal is stronger offensively (agi + mana burn + removes positive buffs) and it's stronger defensively (since it's a second way of removing dust/silences, which as any Riki knows are disastrous).
That's the difference between support and carry Riki here. With Diffusal, you might as well be going carry Riki. Supports in generally try to position themselves back out of the fight and cast their spells.
For instance, Frostbite from Crystal Maiden is useless if you have no follow up for it. The same thing applies to getting Atos and Euls on Riki here.
Diffusal is cast range 600.
Atos is 1200.
That difference is HUGE, and makes or breaks Riki surviving or not. If he's going carry, he's probably already buying stuff to survive by being close and going ham. Support Riki can't afford to do that.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
I'm going to break this post down, but before we start I get the feeling that you fail to appreciate that riki played in this manner is not intended to be a damage source primarily. His purpose is to annoy, scout, and tax the enemy supports with detection while setting up ganks and counterganks.
Your ehp comparison is faulty in that it assumes level 16, in all likelihood you will not be level 16 when completing your item of choosing, putting atos far ahead in terms of raw survivability. Even more so if you factor in base armor and magic resistance, which you ignored. More than raw survivability you do not acknowledge that the biggest reason why atos leaves you much safer is that you don't have to be anywhere near the enemy to utilize it, compared to the shorter range of diffusal.
With regard to pressure, I don't know how those things don't apply pressure. The premise here is in that getting hit by a random atos you are in vision of an enemy hero and it has disabled you. If the hero were to be visible I'm sure you would agree that it would be an extremely perilous situation, say a ds runs into jungle and hits you with atos. Why is it less of a threat, rather than a greater threat, if the hero slowing you is invisible? A possible scenario: You're farming in a lane or in your woods, or doing anything at all, and you get atos'd. You don't know where it came from and it's difficult to guess because of the huge range. You must respect it unless you are completely sure that you are safe because either the other four enemy heroes are visible or their locations known and you can solo the riki, you have strong back up close at hand that you are confident can respond quickly and effectively, or you are on a place on the map where it is extremely unlikely you will be ganked, such as behind a second layer of towers. If you don't, you immediately make yourself vulnerable. You don't know whether or not the gank is coming as others have earlier in the game. Even if wards are up the follow up could be smoked. If no follow up comes a couple times in a row and you decide not to make yourself safe, you've now been conditioned and are more susceptible to future ganks.
Next you assert that diffusal is stronger in following up, but this is only if you consider riki's role to be that of damage. As milk's post nicely outlines the point of support riki is to set up ganks with euls, cloud, and atos. The cloud prevents defensive skill usage and blink counter initiation while euls and atos keep the enemy in there. Now diffusal has a more or less identical slow on a shorter cooldown but it is charge limited. You wouldn't be able to go around harassing with diffusal charges and still have more left for ganks. It becomes more restrictive in the way you have to play and if you took anything away from the previous section hopefully you can see how it becomes less effective overall.
As for removing positive buffs, euls already does that for you. Moving on, sure, diffusal makes you hit harder, it's very efficient on riki and you can just blanket that as "better" if you want to, but you need to remember that this isn't a core hero in the scope of this discussion. Riki does plenty of damage with just backstab, agi gain, and ultimate, certainly enough to contribute to any gank and easily solo most supports. The additional damage you gain with diffusal is what you need to go up against cores, which isn't the job of this build. Diffusal is only stronger defensively if you put yourself in the position there you need to be purging dust or silences and haven't already had to use euls, and that's not often where this kind of riki is situated.
If he can afford Euls (2850) + Atos (3100) he can afford Diffusal (3150) + Sange (2050) or Vladmir's Offering (2075) or Drums (1850) or (even) Vanguard (2225) or Mekansm (2300). Mek almost ties Atos for raw HP (95 from stats + 250 from active), and is well ahead for EHP (because of 5.7 base armour, rising to 7.7 with the active buff), plus it also helps your team out (which a support should be doing!).
A position 5 won't get the farm to support Euls + Atos. A position 4 should (IMO) be buying items with greater utility to the entire team (because somebody should be getting Mek, and unless you have a Shadow Fiend or a Viper, that's probably the position 4). Positions 1-3 should be getting more combat-oriented items.
I'm sure you can make Atos work. It's Dota; anything can work. I just cannot see how it's the best choice, even if you're wanting to go for a "support Riki" that's not really buying support items.
Shit's vital. I have a N3DS XL and had a regular 3DS XL and it was jarring how much better it is with a second stick/nub.
the little nub on 3ds is surprisingly good, but yeah nothing beat cpp grip
I'm assuming that if Riki can get enough farm for Phase + Eul's + Atos, along with buying support stuff like wards and sentries and couriers and such, that the game has gone on long enough to hit level 16.
As for the range, it's true that the range of Atos (1200) is slightly larger than that of dust (1050), so if you're _extremely_ careful, OK, you can Atos people without risk of getting dusted.
But that's all you can do. The range on Eul's is 700; toss them in the air and you'll get dusted when they land. The range on smoke screen is 550; same deal; they can instantly dust and you'll be instantly revealed. The range on Blink Strike is 800. In the danger zone again.
So I simply don't believe that this extra range is a serious advantage. You talk about a Riki dancing around the fight, Eulsing people here, smoke screening them there, blinking on them everywhere, and that means that you're talking about a Riki who's a hell of a lot closer than 1200 units.
Except it hasn't disabled me. Slowed, yes. But I'm not going to pop dust just because I've been slowed.
If I'm hit by the Eul's, then yes, I'm disabled, but Riki's now in dusting distance and, more importantly, just used his purge on me. So now I can freely dust him and he has no way of getting rid of it.
But DS merely Atosing me isn't perilous. DS Atosing me and then getting close so the ion shell hits me, sure. DS Atosing me and dropping a wall on my head, sure. But otherwise? I'm just slowed. I'm not silenced, I'm not stunned, I'm not disarmed, I've taken no damage, and unless something happens in the next 4 seconds, I'm not any worse off.
But the situations you describe aren't dangerous because I've been Atosed. They're dangerous because the entire enemy team is off the map. That's dangerous no matter what.
If you're using Smoke Screen and Eul's, you've got to be closer than 1200 units anyway, so what is the extra range getting you?
You can blink to allies, you know.
It's pretty simple:
1) To make the most of Diffusal, you need to attack a lot. If you're not attacking all the time, it's worse than Atos except in certain cases like being up against Omniknight or Warlock.
2) This Riki is not built for attacking. He'll build Phase -> Orb -> Euls -> Atos ideally, but the game can change at any moment and he could be caught with his pants down unable to finish any major item.
If you run into a farm wall, as support, which would you rather have:
- Two 1000g items boosting your primary stat getting you ready for a role you don't have nearly enough farm priority to sustain in the long run because you're also buying wards, dust, gem, smoke, etc....
- Half a Eul's
- 2 Vitality boosters
It's pretty simple:
1) To make the most of Diffusal, you need to attack a lot. If you're not attacking all the time, it's worse than Atos except in certain cases like being up against Omniknight or Warlock.
2) This Riki is not built for attacking. He'll build Phase -> Orb -> Euls -> Atos ideally, but the game can change at any moment and he could be caught with his pants down unable to finish any major item.
If you run into a farm wall, as support, which would you rather have:
- Two 1000g items boosting your primary stat getting you ready for a role you don't have nearly enough farm priority to sustain in the long run because you're also buying wards, dust, gem, smoke, etc....
- Half a Eul's
- 2 Vitality boosters
Mine doesn't have that, its just a regular XL
I can't wait to play 3Doto with this ice cream cone
where do u stick those
poppedcollar69
Member
d-does it go up your butt
haptic feedback
haptic feedback
Theorycrafting and putting something into practice are radically different things.
Eul's into Smoke Screen is low-risk for the Riki. It is very difficult, in practice, to actually catch Riki with all the bonus movement speed he has from phase / eul's, the silence that smoke provides, and the slow that smoke provides. You can cast Eul's and Atos from inside of trees and never expose yourself.
I can assist in ganks and teamfights without ever leaving invisibility. I can pop my items and smoke on the frontlines, then circle around the back and pick off a support who can't run away due to my phase, euls, and orb of venom. And if you don't think teams won't pop dusts when they get tornadoed into a smoke screen after they lose control of the whole map because I have a gem and can decimate all your wards and sentries, and I have perma-invisibility and can put my own wards deep into your jungle and behind your tier 2 towers, well, then I guess you're just theorycrafting.
It's a utility-focused build whose prime objective is to give your team an absurd amount of map control while providing powerful counter-initiation and initiation tools.
I prefer Atos for several reasons. One, your raw health pool is quite low with this build, so this beefs you up just a little more. Two, mind-game factor for when you start dewarding everything and you atos a poor support that you've already picked on for 75% of the game, or atos a carry who is alone in his jungle and you feel like giving him a lovetap blink strike because he's carrying no invis reveal himself. Three, to help bail allies out of bad spots when they're being chased, or to catch up to an enemy from 1200 range away so you can follow up with Eul's and Smoke Screen. It's a far more versatile item in the midgame because the brunt of the damage won't be done by you... and if you're doing your job right, you'll be able to kill or heavily injure supports yourself anyway.
An answer to a question earlier in the thread, I roam starting from level 1, typically heading to the offlane or enemy jungle and being obnoxious to enemy supports. You can leech from their pulls, take their creeps, and when you get level 2, do a lot of damage and hurt their tango/salve supplies. I rotate often between offlane and mid, and if sentries go down, I'll spend less time in that area or just show myself briefly to scare them. For the record, sometimes I don't get enough gold to buy a Eul's until 20 minutes in, and an Atos until 30 or 40 minutes in. And that's OK.
I really do recommend watching this replay (or any of my other Riki replays) from player perspective at 2x speed just so you get a good idea of how to move. Moving around and deciding what fights to pick is the hardest part about this hero, because he's not like your traditional support where you pull your lane and zone out offlaners! It's also what makes him so much fun!
Note that all this doesn't mean support Riki is without his weaknesses... he certainly has them.
Eul's into Smoke Screen is low-risk for the Riki. It is very difficult, in practice, to actually catch Riki with all the bonus movement speed he has from phase / eul's, the silence that smoke provides, and the slow that smoke provides. You can cast Eul's and Atos from inside of trees and never expose yourself.
I can assist in ganks and teamfights without ever leaving invisibility. I can pop my items and smoke on the frontlines, then circle around the back and pick off a support who can't run away due to my phase, euls, and orb of venom. And if you don't think teams won't pop dusts when they get tornadoed into a smoke screen after they lose control of the whole map because I have a gem and can decimate all your wards and sentries, and I have perma-invisibility and can put my own wards deep into your jungle and behind your tier 2 towers, well, then I guess you're just theorycrafting.
It's a utility-focused build whose prime objective is to give your team an absurd amount of map control while providing powerful counter-initiation and initiation tools.
I prefer Atos for several reasons. One, your raw health pool is quite low with this build, so this beefs you up just a little more. Two, mind-game factor for when you start dewarding everything and you atos a poor support that you've already picked on for 75% of the game, or atos a carry who is alone in his jungle and you feel like giving him a lovetap blink strike because he's carrying no invis reveal himself. Three, to help bail allies out of bad spots when they're being chased, or to catch up to an enemy from 1200 range away so you can follow up with Eul's and Smoke Screen. It's a far more versatile item in the midgame because the brunt of the damage won't be done by you... and if you're doing your job right, you'll be able to kill or heavily injure supports yourself anyway.
An answer to a question earlier in the thread, I roam starting from level 1, typically heading to the offlane or enemy jungle and being obnoxious to enemy supports. You can leech from their pulls, take their creeps, and when you get level 2, do a lot of damage and hurt their tango/salve supplies. I rotate often between offlane and mid, and if sentries go down, I'll spend less time in that area or just show myself briefly to scare them. For the record, sometimes I don't get enough gold to buy a Eul's until 20 minutes in, and an Atos until 30 or 40 minutes in. And that's OK.
I really do recommend watching this replay (or any of my other Riki replays) from player perspective at 2x speed just so you get a good idea of how to move. Moving around and deciding what fights to pick is the hardest part about this hero, because he's not like your traditional support where you pull your lane and zone out offlaners! It's also what makes him so much fun!
Note that all this doesn't mean support Riki is without his weaknesses... he certainly has them.
Cheers. Roaming and ganking heroes are my biggest obvious weakness that I know of, I'll take a look.
Do you have a not as successful one?
"Cheers. Roaming and ganking heroes are my biggest obvious weakness that I know of, I'll take a look.
Do you have a not as successful one?"
Things go downhill fast against Blitz tryhard stack (seriously what kind of asshole picks that combination of heroes).
This replay may be dead, but it's a game that starts off pretty bad but we end up winning anyway: That feel when you have four melee against Razor.
Do you have a not as successful one?"
Things go downhill fast against Blitz tryhard stack (seriously what kind of asshole picks that combination of heroes).
This replay may be dead, but it's a game that starts off pretty bad but we end up winning anyway: That feel when you have four melee against Razor.
Oh this is the game pro mentioned. WOW what a bunch of nerds.
shira
Member
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