Imp the Dimp
Member
What is wrong with reshuffling? Why can players not play with whoever they want?
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DOTA2 |OT14| i give up like your pubs do
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
He said "Prelude 3.0"
the overwatch thing is made up and a joke
Yeah this is how I feel pretty much. Valve set roster deadlines, valve wrote the rules to punish teams who break them and make them take the most difficult path to TI/majors and to discourage mass reshuffling. They've done their part and demotivated anyone but the most desperate of teams from shuffling outside of the given period.
Reddit is whining and begging for a solution to something that isn't a problem nor needs a fix. Valve shouldn't force teams to stay together for whatever reason nor make players play with who they no longer wish to play with, nor stay on teams they no longer wish to stay on. Last place teams know they have to do something if they want a shot at TI and making a change, and then going through the hell of the qualis seems a lot better than 3 months of bitter practice, frustration, and expected failure.
Dota isn't the NBA/NFL, at least not yet and I don't think Valve should strive to be THAT hands on. Besides it should come down to the individual teams to set/word/dictate player contracts if they want to lock them up, no?
Maybe make whoever leaves a team unable to join another for a period of 1 or 2 months. While punishing the leaving player heavily the team that loses the player would also be incentivized to keep whoever they have or they would be unable to find a suitable replacement. At the end of TI there would be a free transfer period of 1 month where no one would be penalized.
On the other hand, you can't expect a team that was just put together to be efficient. An endless cycle of reshuffling will only hurt the players in the long run. It should come to no ones surprise that the teams with better performances are the ones that have been together the longest (NB, Liquid, OG, etc)
Imp the Dimp
Member
That's stricter rules than soccer rofl. Why would people be upset when player swap teams? It happens in soccer all the time. Obviously, there are designated transfer periods (only 2 per year) but Dota has those as well albeit with higher frequency. Just leave it as it is.
NormalFish
Banned
I'd be happy to see some sort of penalty for teams that change rosters (like, teams with more than 1 seat of the team being changed forfeit their direct invite to a major), but I don't think there needs to be a major overhaul of the system.
SecretMoblin
Member
ia but from Valve's point of view it makes the scene look chaotic if there's constant shuffling of players. It's in Valve's business interest to have teams with stable rosters that develop a following -- it looks better for the game and the pro scene. It's the same reason pro sports leagues benefit from having megastars associated with one major club/franchise rather than being passed around more than Twobear on a Saturday night house party in Kelowna.
If Valve wants to make this shit look professional then allowing totally free movement among players and teams damages their brand.
Ultimately I don't care about roster lock rules because I only stan icons, like CHUAN (the best dota player), and don't consider any of this garbage a "sport". But it makes sense for Valve to try and prevent this petty high school drama shit.
They already do this though. If a team reshuffles after the determined shuffling period they forfeit direct invites and have to go through open quals.
NormalFish
Banned
I'm not talking about "after the determined shuffling period" I don't think a team that hasn't been sufficiently tested should ever be invited to a major. Regardless of when they replace people. This idea of "Oh, if you shuffle during this set time, it doesn't matter that your roster is clearly drastically differently from when you earned a major invite" is stupid.
Folks were talking about this on reddit and one post was pretty reasonable. Basically made the point that the folks actually competing in the major probably couldn't care less. While we see the noise and aftershocks from TS/EG shuffle pretty readily, I don't think it actually impacts the major itself in any substantive way.
Oh I'm not worried about how it would affect competitors. I'm more worried about how this stuff makes the people behind the scenes look childish, and gets people talking about "drama" instead of how OG is so godlike. Probably won't have a big impact on viewer numbers. It just bothers me these kids can't even hold it together for more than a day when they lose.
Normally I'd agree, but rumors were starting to spread and it's better to just put out all the fires and clear the air with one direct statement than let speculation run out of control on social media for an extra week or two as all kinds of crazy shit is disseminated along with bits and pieces of the truth.
my 2 cents at least
It does matter though. You have to prove that you are the BEST uninvited team in your respective region and go through hell according to a pro who played in the NA qualifier (of all regions LOL). You have no security or guarantee whatsoever and are under immense pressure to practice, perform, and then qualify for TI whereas the other guys get some semblance of relief and security.
they do, just on euro time
That's fair. I guess the onus is on players to not start leaking things as soon as they lose.
euros tried to ruin IHL and now they ruin this.
rakkadakka
Member
Well the teams either announce it and confirm or let Reddit be fed by rumors. Either way threads and attention will be given.
Regardless, I'm not sure how this actually hurts the tournament. It doesn't look great but it's not like people are going to stop watching good dotes because of it.
I mean I guess it depends on if you look at teams the way pro sports do (an organization and not based around individual players) or if you base the teams on what individuals exist on them. EG will always technically be EG, even if you replace 4/5 players or whatever. So if EG gets invited to a major and then reshuffles during the designated period then that team still exists as EG, just with different players.
Pro sports teams can make trades that drastically change their teams during their set periods and they don't lose a playoff spot because of it. Granted playoffs in sports work differently than they do in Dota obviously but it's really our only point of comparison here.
NormalFish
Banned
I don't see an issue with teams that undergo significant roster changes -- regardless of when -- have to undergo the same gauntlet as the other teams not invited.
I don't look at the teams as being organizations rather than groups of players. Guess that explains the difference.
I believe Valve treats players and organizations separately, so if the 5 members of EG became their own team, they'd get the invite and not whatever new EG team
I have no damn clue, the games were ok, but they were honestly not that great looking back or replaying them. They were technical marvels of their day, but that doesn't make them timeless.
Plus, its a series that kept selling worse and worse. The reason they don't make Crash games anymore is by the end, they sold like crap.
NormalFish
Banned
If we could get a ps1 platformer back in the fray, spyro would be a better choice, frankly.
are you forgetting someone or are you intentionally trying to hurt me
SecretMoblin
Member
Everyone knows what a huge deal it is that Dendi = Na'vi and Loda = Alliance, & even if the teams are usually not at the absolute top they still do a shit ton for the game's image. Valve wants more of that
Yeah, I feel team identity is something that is really lacking in Dota 2, but with teams only being 5 players, it still allows players to shine. Like a lot of people, I tend to root for teams because of who is playing on them rather than what banner they play under.
also, i guess if you're changing members because you don't get along with them that's one thing, but surely not everybody in the pro dota community hates each other so much that it's causing all of the team changes. so that means they're changing because they think they can get a better team. but if you've only been together for three months...like you have barely even sat your ass down on the chair and booted up dota at that point, they should at least give it some time tbh.
NormalFish
Banned
No kidding. It's so weird that after all this time, teams still think that eventually they're going to roll the perfect roster and everything will be amazing, as if that's ever happened.
Secret looks like the opposite. On paper their Manilla roster was amazing, but it clearly fell flat. They would have likely been much better off if they just stuck with their roster after Shanghai, but the potential for improvement was there.
I don't think either Secret or EG's rosters are going to last more than 3 months. Bulba feels very much like "Best we can get on short notice", unless he turns out to play amazing in the team. And I don't think Sumail is actually going to stay on the team, from the sounds of it him and PPD do not get along.
Dreams-Visions
Member
glad I can come i from the mountains of Maui and find more treacherous terrain in pro doto.
I'm pretty sure most of those players hate each other.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I wouldn't mind Zai at the 1. Apparently he really wants to play it and I think he can. Zai seems to always work well with others and I like his style quite a bit for whatever he plays for EG. Certainly Fear probably has one last major as carry in that wrist of his...and we know what kind of flexibility that can offer EG in terms of carry options (anything from standard meta picks to Weaver to carry Venomancer and carry Visage)...but I think Zai can be scary at carry and we've seen as much in the past from him. With EG not playing in the next ESL tournament, they'll have time to figure that part out themselves which will be good for them...though going into a tournament with a new carry and primary support (potentially) cold will be difficult regardless.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I think some stability would be good for the pro circuit regardless. There's a reason why players in established sports don't switch teams 5 times a season. It's bad for the sport, bad for brands, and bad for the players who often times get left behind in the shuffle or otherwise lose gainful employment. After all, the shit is becoming the way people support themselves. Nobody wants to be in a "career" where they my only be a "pro" for 3 months. Stability and at least some level of reliability will be essential sooner or later in esports for the same reasons they are in traditional sports.
neurosisxeno
Member
Artstyle being a beast.
Na'vi looks good in this first game. A win here is exactly what they need to be considered a T1 team now--the panelists were talking about them being on the cusp, and eliminating Liquid definitely pushes them over.
Na'vi looks good in this first game. A win here is exactly what they need to be considered a T1 team now--the panelists were talking about them being on the cusp, and eliminating Liquid definitely pushes them over.
manfestival
Member
dendi is the hero that dota 2 needs
Dreams-Visions
Member
he always was.
shira
Member
daijobu daijobu
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Damn. I think the panel called it; NaVi's drafts were just too light on damage. I don't think they played particularly badly (though perhaps not as inspired as in some of their previous matches), they just couldn't break down the Liquid heroes.
https://twitter.com/alexgarfield/status/740919198424010752?lang=en
https://twitter.com/alexgarfield/status/740919198424010752?lang=en
sleverfunk
Member
So where is aui will go?
Kaipi?
Kaipi?
neurosisxeno
Member
Back to DC?
Like dc would even want him back 😂
That youtuber that makes songs out of Dota soundbytes made one with Overwatch sounds and Bliz actually featured it in the b.net launcher.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGrMQhowWIQ
Imp the Dimp
Member
Why do I have to look on page 2 for the Dota thread? Shugga's lack of presence is staggering.
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