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DOTA2 |OT14| i give up like your pubs do
- Thread starter Artanisix
- Start date
SecretMoblin
Member
buff agi a bit and #carryOmni is coming
the buffs to tank visage are super cute.
also str gain viper, I tried and failed to carry with him for my daily yesterday, more hp would have been slightly adorable
the buffs to tank visage are super cute.
also str gain viper, I tried and failed to carry with him for my daily yesterday, more hp would have been slightly adorable
Doesn't matter if you managed to buy diffusal if the enemy carry was able to run around for at least 20 min with a free bkb to build an advantage and get an extra damage item before he built bkb.
His strength has always been to grant heroes with high mobility/damage but vulnerable to lockdown a free couple of seconds of being able to run around and snowball without fear in the early-mid game teamfights.
Gonna assume you get a 16-20 min diffusal on heroes that builds it. Even slower for those who don't even build it naturally. So you skewer your build for that item. Oh look my PA didn't go farming build or early fighting build, she went diffusal which doesn't give her more survivability or much damage or lockdown. Welp, their sven went farming and now he has a 3 more items than she does and a bkb so her diffusal doesn't do much.
You shouldn't effectively lose the game in 20 minutes to Omniknight though. On some heroes you may have to delay the Diffusal after something like Battle Fury, and that's fine. You just still need to get it. Heroes other than the safelane carry can get it too. I know I've bought it on Timbersaw before because no one else would. It's like wards or courier: Sometimes you have to buy them because no one else will.
An item that effectively makes one of the enemy heroes useless with the press of a button is always worth it.
Had an absolutely shit weekend of Dota, and now my International MMR is even lower than my normal ones.
How the fuck do you win when the Alchemist on your team goes 0-12.
And then to top it all off, was winning a game as Medusa (as my daily hero) and then my Internet went down for several hours, causing me to abandon and my team to lose.
How the fuck do you win when the Alchemist on your team goes 0-12.
And then to top it all off, was winning a game as Medusa (as my daily hero) and then my Internet went down for several hours, causing me to abandon and my team to lose.
Its not as in a 20 min loss, its like. That 20 min the enemy carry/mid got to do w/e he wants or those fights where you lost or they got all your t1-t2 in that timespan is what sets up the loss. You built a 3k gold item for the sole purpose of countering a pos 4-5 support. You're not itemizing again his cores that can have itemized to no longer be dependant on repel or his ult.
Unless the enemy team relies completely on their omniknight's abilities to win and don't buy bkb's when they need one or the game remained close, then yeah you can win.
There's a reason Omni + OD were considered an OP combo in 6.86 even if OD was a hero that built bkb so you might think it was redundant. But again, thats not the point. The point is I have a free bkb before I farm an actual bkb, so I can be more active much earlier.
If they aren't relying on Omniknight's skills (even if they all buy BKBs and Omni never uses repel for whatever reason), then they are just setting themselves up for a loss. Guardian Angel is critical, otherwise he's a potato. Granted he is a potato anyway if people buy Diffusals.
Guarantee you, pretty much any game against an Omniknight I have lost before 30 minutes was because of other problems that weren't Omniknight, and that was often without a single Diffusal on the team. I have seen so many 50+ minute against Omniknight games get thrown because of #RefusalToBuyDiffusal. He ults, and everyone runs like headless chickens, trying to get away and and can't fight back.
Saying you are "wasting money countering a pos 4-5 support" is like arguing that you shouldn't buy BKB for Crystal Maiden just because she is a position 5 support.
I really can't get over this. Do you seriously believe that the hero is useless outside of his ult? And despite this he has a winrate of 57.85% at 5Kmmr and higher?
The only issue Omniknight has, the reason why pros don't pick him, is his static, weak laning.
They'll be relying on it in the early game. With farm they probably won't be needing it later on. Once again, if they can snowball because of repel in the early game, which means gold lead, which means they have at least one extra item then you do.
So the problems that weren't omniknight didn't benefit in anyway from omniknight yeah?
except bkb doesn't just counter crystal maiden and you're not forced to buy one vs her.
I really can't get over this. Do you seriously believe that the hero is useless outside of his ult? And despite this he has a winrate of 57.85% at 5Kmmr and higher?
The only issue Omniknight has, the reason why pros don't pick him, is his static, weak laning.
No, I think he is useless altogether if teams itemize correctly against him.
If they don't, then yeah, Repel is absolutely useful.
Outside of that, his heal is good early game, his slow makes for somewhat decent laning/early harass.
Talk with your teammates about who needs what.
If your carry needs to get BKB first, that's fine, someone else that can stay further out of the fight can get Diffusal, and the carry can pick it up later. You have to talk with your teammates about these things.
The thing is, early game you need to capitalize on the low mana pool of Omniknight. Snowballing isn't a reliable to win games, nor is it a realiable way to lose them. Omniknight doesn't just fall off the face of the map after BKBs go up.
The other problems still benefitted from Omniknight, but you can guarantee he was not a very high percentage of why they are running your team over already.
BKB counters lots of heroes, and if you're getting fucked by something like Frostbite every single time, you may have to get one. Granted CM is a weird example for that, I'll admit, but you could apply this to many other heroes. Lion or Shadow Shaman would probably be better examples.
Didn't say he fell off the face of the earth. Just said his team doesn't rely on him as much. Which means countering him has less impact.
Same problem as countering brood. You invest money into countering the hero, but the difference with Omni is that he's not a gold piñata and isn't played as a core as much a support. Theres a difference between buying an item like bkb that allows you to ignore damage from multiple heroes and any heroes can buy and buying an item like diffusal to counter one hero which means you'll be keeping your charges for him and not offensively to slow or defensively to purge silences, etc.
Hero still has a 57% wr in 5k+ bracket so clearly they either really can make the hero's strength work or he's much harder to counter than what you're making it sound like.
You counter Brood because you will lose to that hero fast if you don't. It's that simple. Omniknight has stuff that affects his whole team, and Diffusal takes care of it. It counters Omni specifically, but also his team because he is a potato when you take away his two best skills.
Isn't the regular 4-4-0 build still a better deal in the end though? I feel like it is.
Just depends how you like to play and the matchup; dota is rarely cut and dry. Hell, milk puts 0 in raze, and it works for him--he does him. As for me, I'm going to experiment with picking up a point in presence at level 4.
Monochromaticx
Member
xbone
?
NormalFish
Banned
xbone
IT'S A MONSTER
shira
Member
scorpio is interesting, the rest not so much
NormalFish
Banned
scalebound is coming to PC so i'm set.
is there anything from Microsoft thats not coming to PC
NormalFish
Banned
not at their show afaik. scalebound wasn't announced for pc before though as best as I can remember
reformat
I saw that earlier, and got really excited. Then I watched the gameplay video and was left... utterly underwhelmed.
Maybe it'll play better than it looked but boy it did not look great.
I thought Milk's Razeless build was just an "I'm fucking around because I'm so much better than who I am playing against" type of thing.
I'm curious how picking up early Presence turns out though. Please let us know.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Is 6.88 live?
it has been live since last night
Imp the Dimp
Member
Well thanks, that's nice
shira
Member
Windows 10 store or Steam?
he did that in one (or two?) completely free 2k mmr games
He has regularly done no raze SF in ap/rd games for a few patches now and it works out just fine for him. You bully out other mids with the enormous -armor and damage edge (completely out deny them) and then take rosh quite easily at 10-20 mins with some lifesteal.
Not something i'd probably ever do but just an example of how you shouldn't think with the mindset "ALWAYS X, Y, AND Z" when it comes to heroes and item builds. Part of what makes a good dota player is someone who can adapt to lane, composition, and just general game flow with respect to items/skill-ups while injecting a little bit of your own personal flavor and (hopefully) success.
Probably W10 store.
I know that demo probably wasn't the greatest light to protray it in, but I'm curious to see more of the game. Kamiya hasn't let me down yet.
Wok
Member
It is still messing around. Getting a value point in presence makes sense, but saying "I'm gonna value -1 additional armor over having a spell to use some mana on before level 6" is trolling.
Situational at best depending on the match-up.
Hell, you could event take 1 point in raze just to fake some raze and cancel the animation at this point.
shira
Member
misses bull
Banned
too bad it looks like kamyia worst game
yeah yeah I know
with the amount of +armor going around these days. The shift to having more souls early makes that value point in Presence really desirable.
regardless the point i'm making is there is no definitive best build whether that be the traditional build, no raze sf, value point in presence sf, level 1 raze sf, level 1 necro sf, ulti before presence vs. presence before ulti, etc... the list goes on and on
do what you like, experiment, and iterate
Find what works for you, yes 4/4/0/1 is the traditional build. No, I'm not going to say it's the definitive 100% best build in every situation (even though it's what I've done by far the most too) or for every person. That's an asinine claim when it comes to dota with variables like your specific lane, your matchup, the gameflow, etc... there are so many factors that demand or require changes to the "traditional."
do what you like, experiment, and iterate
Find what works for you, yes 4/4/0/1 is the traditional build. No, I'm not going to say it's the definitive 100% best build in every situation (even though it's what I've done by far the most too) or for every person. That's an asinine claim when it comes to dota with variables like your specific lane, your matchup, the gameflow, etc... there are so many factors that demand or require changes to the "traditional."
NormalFish
Banned
I'm sure if he showed okami or viewtiful joe people would say the same thing, though. Demo wasn't flattering but I just can't imagine a bad kamiya game.
Monochromaticx
Member
PogChamp NX game announced PogChamp
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