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[e0n]

This is good

I personally don't care if a game wants to have a woke message, but at least let it come from the writers own beliefs and not some corporate consultants embedding themselves into games nefariously

This will make it easier hopefully for Devs to say no to these shit heels

lol, the client list you can already find on their main website lists nearly every major Western gaming studio/publisher. The curator list is just a politically-motivated attempt to lower the ratings of games for ambiguous reasons.

 

[nush]

You think they would be proud of someone promoting their work.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

 

[Mister Wolf]

Again, this goes back to my point in the other thread. Everyone is treating this company like some larger than life boogeyman in the same vein as Blackrock Vanguard and Tencent. None of those other companies would go and cry on twitter. It's an ocean of difference.


He's making things worse, but he does have a point about the word woke. The definition of it needs to be more solid than it is because it continues to change depending upon who uses it.

Woke is a general descriptor for those that share beliefs of feminism, racial activism, or gender/sexual identity activism. They started getting grouped together under the banner of "woke" because many fall into more than one of these groups, and are perceived as being allies in a united front to sway society towards their ideals. Myself personally, I single out the specific groups as there is no need to be vague.

 

[Kacho]

He's making things worse, but he does have a point about the word woke. The definition of it needs to be more solid than it is because it continues to change depending upon who uses it.

I find it disingenuous and an extremely lazy way to distract people from the issue being discussed. Even if you don’t understand why that term is being used, you should be able to infer the meaning based on the context of the conversation.

 

[Jaybe]

via Niche Gamer

​

I’m guessing some angry black female perspectives coming soon from this Chris. Probably worked on Alan Wake 2.

 

[Phase]

They get so mad because they can't subvert if too many people notice.

 

[TheUsual]

People who lash out like this usually are themselves uncomfortable with what they're doing.

It's just a fucking curator on Steam. If that is already enough to trigger you and to try to "ban" discussion, then that tells me a lot about the work you're doing. Ergo: Fuck Sweet Baby Inc.

I would think if the individual was proud of their work they would use this to make a mockery of the curator.

But that isn't happening. They don't want the spotlight on their work. I wonder why.

 

[Kacho]

I would think if the individual was proud of their work they would use this to make a mockery of the curator.

“Here are some examples of how Sweet Baby Jesus was able to add value to this game”

But nope

“This curator page is problematic! What does woke even mean?”

 

[ManaByte]

He’ll be Swatted before the weekend is out.

 

[March Climber]

Woke is a general descriptor for those that share beliefs of feminism, racial activism, and gender/sexual identity activism. They started getting grouped together under the banner of "woke" because many fall into more than one of these groups, and are perceived as being allies in a united front to sway society towards their ideals.

We all know what 'woke' means today - even the shill who interviewed Elon Musk a few moments before the now legendary 'go fuck yourself (Bob Iger)' and used the word 'woke' with the meaning everyone here now uses.

Forced diversity, attack on masculinity, demeaning women to be mere costumes to be appropriated by men, striving for equity instead of equality, encouraging males to be feminine and females to be masculine in order to create a 'gender neutral' 'global' consumer to whom any product will appeal to in order to maximize a company's sales, attacking religion and the nuclear family and the newest 'male and pale is the new stale'.

That's what wokeness is.

No, it’s clear:

Race Marxism
Gender Marxism
Fat Marxism
Brony Marxism

Notice a pattern?

I know what it is generally supposed to mean. My problem with the word only lies with how people use it, which is why I say the meaning of the word is too fluid.

For example, a game can be revealed at TGA or at Summer Games Fest starring a black female character, ex: Flintlock, and people here will call it 'woke' when there are no signs of anything in your definition that's present in the trailer.

That's what I need explained because it doesn't make sense.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

What makes this meltdown more pathetic, is that the average everyday gamer or casual gamer is not going to use this tool, or barely even know it exists.
Not because they are "woke" or whatever, they just don't care.

Most people won't use this tool, so why the fuck does he care?

I'm being the devils advocate here, don't show weakness, when you truly don't need to.
But it's too late, guy already made his whining public.

It's only for a particular group of people, that REALLY don't like Sweet Baby's input in the games they play.
And I say "really" because there are people that don't like them, but like other stuff about the game enough that they will still play it.

Again, pathetic.

 

[FinalBossWithTheMostPower]

 

[Complistic]

This should just about be the end of them right? No one's gonna want to associate with them after this.

 

[March Climber]

I find it disingenuous and an extremely lazy way to distract people from the issue being discussed.

I agree about this part.

Even if you don’t understand why that term is being used, you should be able to infer the meaning based on the context of the conversation.

I don't agree about this part, because the definition is too fluid.

It's that easy. Both can be true.

 

[LordCBH]

The sooner this cancer is cut out the better. These ass clowns at sweet baby add nothing to anything they “work” on, they’re simply making everything worse.

 

[Kacho]

I agree about this part.

I don't agree about this part, because the definition is too fluid.

It's that easy. Both can be true.

I’m not saying this to be snarky to you personally, but if you can’t understand why that’s your problem.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

This is just clever marketing to make Sweet Baby Inc employees the next victimhood group, so they can put themselves in all these games.

 

[Banjo64]

lol, the client list you can already find on their main website lists nearly every major Western gaming studio/publisher. The curator list is just a politically-motivated attempt to lower the ratings of games for ambiguous reasons.

Of course. Couldn’t just be that no sane person wants to go to their website to have a running list of which devs are thick enough to include this shoddily written tripe.

 

[semiconscious]

okay, I really like 'woke ppl'. gonna have to start using it more often...

 

[digdug2]

What makes this meltdown more pathetic, is that the average everyday gamer or casual gamer is not going to use this tool, or barely even know it exists.
Not because they are "woke" or whatever, they just don't care.

Most people won't use this tool, so why the fuck does he care?

I'm being the devils advocate here, don't show weakness, when you truly don't need to.
But it's too late, guy already made his whining public.

It's only for a particular group of people, that REALLY don't like Sweet Baby's input in the games they play.
And I say "really" because there are people that don't like them, but like other stuff about the game enough that they will still play it.

Again, pathetic.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I am really hoping that this pissy little meltdown brings tons of attention to Sweet Baby and what they "bring to the table". I'm glad that they're getting pushback and handling it like the absolute turds that they are. I'm fine with diversity, equality, and inclusivity... but this shit that they're actually trying to shove down our throats is not that- it's insidious.

 

[Kilau]

This tweet lol, lmao even

“They are openly avoiding our inclusivity!”

Way to signal boost.

 

[nush]

This should just about be the end of them right? No one's gonna want to associate with them after this.

Kotaku defense article will be up within a few hours.

 

[Hudo]

I would think if the individual was proud of their work they would use this to make a mockery of the curator.

But that isn't happening. They don't want the spotlight on their work. I wonder why.

Exactly.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Again, this goes back to my point in the other thread. Everyone is treating this company like some larger than life boogeyman in the same vein as Blackrock Vanguard and Tencent. None of those other companies would go and cry on twitter. It's an ocean of difference.


He's making things worse, but he does have a point about the word woke. The definition of it needs to be more solid than it is because it continues to change depending upon who uses it.

We all know what 'woke' means today - even the shill who interviewed Elon Musk a few moments before the now legendary 'go fuck yourself (Bob Iger)' and used the word 'woke' with the meaning everyone here now uses.

Forced diversity, attack on masculinity, demeaning women to be mere costumes to be appropriated by men, striving for equity instead of equality, encouraging males to be feminine and females to be masculine in order to create a 'gender neutral' 'global' consumer to whom any product will appeal to in order to maximize a company's sales, attacking religion and the nuclear family and the newest 'male and pale is the new stale'.

That's what wokeness is.

Kotaku defense article will be up within a few hours.

Pity that nobody reads that piss pool anymore.

 

[March Climber]

I’m not saying this to be snarky to you personally, but if you can’t understand why that’s your problem.

By 'why that's your problem' if you mean the definition of the word being too fluid, I find it to be a problem because the ones who are using it to define too many things they don't like, are making it much harder for the ones who are actually using it to point out real tangible issues within the entertainment industry.

There is a big difference to say "I don't like this because it's inaccurate to the source material, it puts activism or modernism in parts that detract from the art, or it generally distracts from the art' vs 'I don't like this because _____(gender/race) is in it.'

As a conclusion for this post to make it absolutely clear again, even from me saying all of this, it doesn't excuse that the tweet in question from being a dumb one.

 

[Kacho]

“They are openly avoiding our inclusivity!”

 

[Kacho]

By 'why that's your problem' if you mean the definition of the word being too fluid, I find it to be a problem because the ones who are using it to define too many things they don't like, are making it much harder for the ones who are actually using it to point out real tangible issues within the entertainment industry.

There is a big difference to say "I don't like this because it's inaccurate to the source material, it puts activism or modernism in parts that detract from the art, or it generally distracts from the art' vs 'I don't like this because _____(gender/race) is in it.'

As a conclusion for this post to make it absolutely clear again, even from me saying all of this, it doesn't excuse that the tweet in question from being a dumb one.

See, you're doing exactly what I'm talking about. We're getting way off topic here. It's no ones responsibility to get you to up to speed on this. I can understand why the term is applied in pretty much all conversations. If someone is struggling to figure it out, no one is obligated to hold their hand. They are free to ignore it and focus on the meat of the conversation.

 

[night13x]

That's no sweet baby of mine

 

[March Climber]

See, you're doing exactly what I'm talking about. We're getting way off topic here. It's no ones responsibility to get you to up to speed on this. I can understand why the term is applied in pretty much all conversations. If someone is struggling to figure it out, no one is obligated to hold their hand. They are free to ignore it and focus on the meat of the conversation.

It seems that what you are unsure about is Marxism. Let me try to explain as briefly as possible.

Originally, long long ago, every man and woman worked only for him and herself. Everyone was happy, because they were MAKING themselves (important point).

Then someone figured out that you can make people work for you, ie wages, money. This meant people were no longer Making themselves. They were alienated from their labour, and alienated from themselves. Now people were not happy.

The rich people invented stories that justified this alienation. God chose the king. Men are stronger and more rational than women. Civilization is superior to barbarism.

But these stories also hid things. It hid that women are as strong as men, and better hunters. It hid that there many black vikings, and many blacks in medieval Europe. It hid that gays and trans people have always made up a substantial proportion of the population.

Marxists want to equalize the distribution of wealth, so that oppression will end, and everyone will be happy. Woke is when you are awoken to the oppression caused by the division of labor, and the stories that legitimate it.

Stories have a function in general: to legitimize the oppression of the have nots by the haves. This is the reason Marxists cannot make their own stories. So what they do is they take pre-existing stories and try to subvert to gradually neutralize their oppressive effect.

So, for example, they might make Anne Boleyn black, which disempowers whites, and empowers blacks. This is actually counterproductive.

For example, let’s say you play golf. You don’t think it is an important part of your identity, but suddenly, all your favorite media is filled with golfers as villains, insisting that it is the most important thing about you, and that it makes you evil. Every game and movie considers it essential presupposes that you are evil, and your identity must be deconstructed. You are going to be defensive, and you will naturally group together with other golfers.

This is what we detest about wokeness. Every trope that is subverted, and every race that is swapped is an attempt to deconstruct and demoralize. Moreover, from an entertainment perspective, it just sucks because it is based on a false psychology- no man murders his father without severe psychological consequences. I know it seems like the term woke is being used too loosely, but this is because ALL identities are being deconstructed constsntly.

There is a lot of truth in the accusations Marxism makes, but they always mix in a bit of truth with a falsehood in order to forget or deny basic realities: Being fat is legitimately unhealthy. Only women can have babies. Gender is real. You can’t be born in the wrong body. Most scientific discoveries were made by European cultures. Britain ended the slave trade.

If all you got from my post is that "March Climber doesn't understand the word" then I don't know if you read my post properly.

 

[worldwithpyramids]

these kind of 'consultants' should be purged from gaming. you've ruined enough. go away now.

 

[Jaybe]

Figured I'd follow for fun. Latest count. https://store.steampowered.com/curator/44858017-Sweet-Baby-Inc-detected/

 

[Nickolaidas]

For example, a game can be revealed at TGA or at Summer Games Fest starring a black female character, ex: Flintlock, and people here will call it 'woke' when there are no signs of anything in your definition that's present in the trailer.

In that hypothetical (or not) example, the word woke is used with the term everybody uses it, but it's wrongfully applied there. There is nothing woke with a female black lead, unless her presence makes no narrative sense (i.e. a portrayal of the Greek Goddess Athena which was and should be white since she's based off Ancient Greek women, or her being the only black character in a medieval Chinese village or something). Usually the race of a character is deemed woke if it makes little to no narrative sense.

There is also a case to be made for an explosion of female black leads after the Summer of Love, which makes people suspicious of the motives of the devs behind their choice of a (female) black lead. Causing said people to go 'Yeah, yeah, we get it, black lives matter, can you stop making every lead a female black character now'? It may be an unfair accusation/observation, but it *is* being made due to the suspicious 'timing'.

 

[Crayon]

Oh lovely another grudge match. Pick your battles.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Oh lovely another grudge match. Pick your battles.

Every side which opposes wokeness will always have my sword. And my bow. And my axe.

 

[Crayon]

Every side which opposes wokeness will always have my sword. And my bow. And my axe.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

What is there even to report?
These soy snowflakes really think they can just report the world away so they can live in their delusional bubbles.

 

[Dazraell]

Figured I'd follow for fun. Latest count.

Seems like their drama went exactly the same way as Hogwarts boycott last year. These idiots never learn lmao

 

[March Climber]

In that hypothetical (or not) example, the word woke is used with the term everybody uses it, but it's wrongfully applied there. There is nothing woke with a female black lead, unless her presence makes no narrative sense (i.e. a portrayal of the Greek Goddess Athena which was and should be white since she's based off Ancient Greek women, or her being the only black character in a medieval Chinese village or something). Usually the race of a character is deemed woke if it makes little to no narrative sense.

I agree with this part. I will say it's a tough line to walk because if there is any type of hard fantasy(like fantasy creatures) inserted into the historical piece, then technically anything should be open, but people will still claim it is woke when that fantasy piece stars someone who is not from that culture.

There is also a case to be made for an explosion of female black leads after the Summer of Love, which makes people suspicious of the motives of the devs behind their choice of a (female) black lead. Causing said people to go 'Yeah, yeah, we get it, black lives matter, can you stop making every lead a female black character now'? It may be an unfair accusation/observation, but it *is* being made due to the suspicious 'timing'.

I remember another poster said this months ago when we were discussing the word 'woke' here. I once asked a poster 'how can a developer reasonably create a game with a black female protagonist(if that was their intent since the start) and reveal the title at a big conference without it being considered 'woke'. He took a while and then literally responded 'they can't.'

I consider that a pretty big problem and pretty sad as well.

 

[RespawnX]

Seems like their drama went exactly the same way as Hogwarts boycott last year. These idiots never learn lmao

Well deserved. No reasonable person has anything against open mind, cultural or gender diversity. But they drive the whole thing ad absurdum and do 1000x more harm than good to the term "woke". They just want to ride the horse to death and make money out of it, as you can see from their reaction.

 

[Skifi28]

There no such thing as bad publicity, right?

 

[nush]

I agree with this part. I will say it's a tough line to walk because if there is any type of hard fantasy(like fantasy creatures) inserted into the historical piece, then technically anything should be open, but people will still claim it is woke when that fantasy piece stars someone who is not from that culture.

I remember another poster said this months ago when we were discussing the word 'woke' here. I once asked a poster 'how can a developer reasonably create a game with a black female protagonist(if that was their intent since the start) and reveal the title at a big conference without it being considered 'woke'. He took a while and then literally responded 'they can't.'

I consider that a pretty big problem and pretty sad as well.

It's not about color, these idiots fucked it up by having "The message" be the character.

 

[Zathalus]

Its 2024 and idiots on the internet still don't understand the Streisand effect.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Doesnt the curator just report on their involvement and nothing more?

So their argument against the curator is that they themselves perceive their own involvement as a negative, even though nobody but them has made such claim? Wow, says a lot when they see themselves as a net negative.

 

[Faust]

I agree with this part. I will say it's a tough line to walk because if there is any type of hard fantasy(like fantasy creatures) inserted into the historical piece, then technically anything should be open, but people will still claim it is woke when that fantasy piece stars someone who is not from that culture.

I remember another poster said this months ago when we were discussing the word 'woke' here. I once asked a poster 'how can a developer reasonably create a game with a black female protagonist(if that was their intent since the start) and reveal the title at a big conference without it being considered 'woke'. He took a while and then literally responded 'they can't.'

I consider that a pretty big problem and pretty sad as well.

One of the biggest games in recent years is Final Fantasy VII Remake and Rebirth. Both prominently feature a black main character and nothing regarding that character was deemed “woke”.

Same when they announced Blade.

Same when they announced GTA V, Watch Dogs 2, Half Life Alyx, Dishonored Mask of the Outsider, Mafia 3, and plenty more.

Plenty of games can have black main characters and not be considered or decried as being “woke”. Despite your best efforts to try and falsely associate being anti-woke/anti-slacktivist as being racist/bigoted, that was never the case.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This should just about be the end of them right? No one's gonna want to associate with them after this.

oh sweet little baby, the companies are going to double down on them

 

[Fbh]

I bet deep down this is the best shit that has happened to them in months.
Get to be at the center of online drama and play the victim card while calling for the cancellation of evil bigots? It's like the wet dream of all of these people

The sooner this cancer is cut out the better. These ass clowns at sweet baby add nothing to anything they “work” on, they’re simply making everything worse.

The problem is that Sweet Baby is a symptom, not the illness.
If they go away there's just going to be some other consulting firm doing this shit.
People can hate on Sweet Baby all they want but ultimately they aren't forcing devs/publishers to hire them. The real problem is devs/publishers actually wanting this shit in their games.

 

[March Climber]

It's not about color, these idiots fucked it up by having "The message" be the character.

You're missing my point entirely. I'm not talking about an established character like Alyx from Half Life, who was revealed back in 2004. I'm talking about newer poc main characters who have been revealed in the past few years, when people started using the term 'woke' more and more. When Flintlock was revealed, quite a few people had already dismissed the game as 'woke' when there was no 'message' anywhere in the trailer.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I remember another poster said this months ago when we were discussing the word 'woke' here. I once asked a poster 'how can a developer reasonably create a game with a black female protagonist(if that was their intent since the start) and reveal the title at a big conference without it being considered 'woke'.

Pretty easy. You write her with flaws, insecurities, a mix of good and bad qualities, but generally make her sympathetic enough to be likable and relatable. You avoid making a flawless paragon of perfection while all the men around her are toxic, racist with sub-normal intellect or beta bitches and you have a solid black character whom the vast majority of male and female players will have no problem using as their avatar in the game.

Oh, and you avoid making her look like this bitch.

 

[Herbspiceguy]

I checked those tweets yesterday. They were bombarded with backlash, and ppl reporting him on x for actual targeted harassment and thanking him for showing the curated list. It was fun to read, but probably not enough for him to receive a reality check unfortunately.