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Gaming Journalists stepped in to defend Sweet Baby Inc. after curator page went viral
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InterMusketeer
Member
You are absolutely right. She's not telling these people to threaten violence against their co-workers or anything. But what she is proposing here is still completely insane and breeds unsafe work environments. Strange for sensitivity readers to encourage this type of behavior.
The rest of her talk shows she is a mentally unstable narcissist who's obsessed with race and seems to hate white men specifically. Everything she does or says is ideologically motivated, and the fact that she's given a platform on stage to spout her nonsense in a professional context is a disgrace.
Also, please tell me you're not defending SBI's racist employees and the
Neon Xenon
Member
This has only gotten more obnoxious over the years. Either gaming has expanded its reach over time and many types of people are into it (which is true) or it's one massive hive mind where everyone always shares the same opinion and thoughts about everything.
People can't pick a story and stick to it.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
All the details are almost meaningless. The consultants are clearly trying to handwave away their own work, and no one seems satisfied by the current products. The memory of better times when creators just went with their gut is appealing to the majority of consumers at this point. What does the consumer want, and what are is being made instead?
A diverse, thriving industry was built without sweet babies and similar consultants and executive edicts across all media. Kids aren’t interested in the products, teens are confused, adults are angry.
What is the harm of rejecting this path? I don’t remember anyone feeling left out until they were convinced they were left out, and no one wants to be included in the spidemanless, fat faced alloy world we live in.
I think people on the curator’s side are asking if they are wrong, and if they are wrong they will leave. But the reality is they are not wrong.
A diverse, thriving industry was built without sweet babies and similar consultants and executive edicts across all media. Kids aren’t interested in the products, teens are confused, adults are angry.
What is the harm of rejecting this path? I don’t remember anyone feeling left out until they were convinced they were left out, and no one wants to be included in the spidemanless, fat faced alloy world we live in.
I think people on the curator’s side are asking if they are wrong, and if they are wrong they will leave. But the reality is they are not wrong.
Robb
Gold Member
I have already watched it. Doesn’t matter if it’s ethical or financial, or something else. The sentiment is ‘terrify your peers so that you get what you want’. Absolutely insane advice/recommendations to give, especially to a workplace.
I’m happy to take a coffee with the guys over at marketing where I work and pitch whatever. I sure as hell ain’t going to go to them, or anyone else I work with for that matter, with the sheer intent of terrifying them of what might happen if they don’t buy into my pitches.
Aces High
Member
She's advocating for the infusion of politics into video games, which is totally okay.
I'm not a fan of it, but she has the freedom to do so.
However, this freedom comes with a responsibility to foster constructive discourse and respect differing opinions.
And this is where she fails.
There's a fine line between presenting political ideas and propagandizing.
Encouraging developers to terrify management into adopting specific political stances raises ethical concerns.
No matter if you're convinced that you're playing for the good guys, using fear as a tool for persuasion is always coercive and unethical.
The Sweet Baby CEO risks creating a hostile work environment, undermines democratic principles of open and respectful debate, and creates division rather than constructive engagement with issues.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
For these people that line doesn't exist. Everything is political, nobody escapes. If you don't follow their manifesto you are labeled a hundred names and the mob comes after you. This is terror tactics.
Since there are no gulags in the West (they would love that) they try to remove you from your job, your social circles, friends, etc. They don't kill you, but the intent is as evil.
Another example of the DEI mindset and why we should reject all their talking points and never give them the benefit of the doubt.
Warner Bros. Plans To Double Down On DEI And Force Out Those Who Disagree | Fandom Pulse
Companies like Warner Bros. are counting on showing people the door who disagree with their DEI programs and pushing the agendas further.
fandompulse.com
Bloobs
Al Pachinko, Konami President
Still the best.
Man, why is DF still part of Eurogamer
MacReady13
Member
My fav youtuber and gamings own Nostradamus, Jeff "I pull things out my arse so often that I'm bound to get 1 thing correct" Grubb blocked me on twitter after I saw him agreeing with that racist Kotaku slag who said you can't be racist to white people. I said to him that he continues to disappoint. Guess he doesn't like any form of criticism. Fuck him and fuck ANYONE defending these looney fucking people.
CherryFalls
Banned
Claim: sweet baby inc had nothing to do with the development of the saga anderson character from alan wake 2
Neogaf expert fact checking department found that to be: NOT TRUE!
Fact: sweet baby inc was fully involved in the making of her character
Proof:
Source:
www.gamedeveloper.com
Neogaf expert fact checking department found that to be: NOT TRUE!
Fact: sweet baby inc was fully involved in the making of her character
Proof:
Source:
Why Remedy Entertainment went all in on Saga Anderson in Alan Wake 2
An in-depth interview with Alan Wake 2 creative director Sam Lake and game director Kyle Rowley about designing the studio's first Black protagonist.
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elementalnocturne
Neo Member
When did the Neogaf expert fact checking department claim that Sweet Baby Inc had nothing to do with Alan Wake 2? No one argued that. The game was explicitly listed on their website.Claim: sweet baby inc had nothing to do with the development of the saga anderson character from alan wake 2
Neogaf expert fact checking department found that to be: NOT TRUE!
Fact: sweet baby inc was fully involved in the making of her character
Proof:
Source:
Why Remedy Entertainment went all in on Saga Anderson in Alan Wake 2
An in-depth interview with Alan Wake 2 creative director Sam Lake and game director Kyle Rowley about designing the studio's first Black protagonist.
Also nothing that you posted is really proof that the game is driven by DEI other than maybe the term “person of color” which is factually accurate given that Saga is a black woman.
The difference between Alan Wake 2 and every other game with Sweet Baby Inc interference is that Alan Wake 2’s story doesn’t feel like it was workshopped by a corporate HR department. The writing, the story, and the characters all stand on their own and it’s done exceptionally well. Isn’t that what we want for all of our games?
simpatico
Member
I've seen plenty of critiques on AW2's story.
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elementalnocturne
Neo Member
Sure. It’s subjective like anything else but it’s far more creative than most AAA western games. It takes risks and not everyone is going to like that.
Aces High
Member
Alan Wake 2's protagonist is openly racist.Claim: sweet baby inc had nothing to do with the development of the saga anderson character from alan wake 2
Neogaf expert fact checking department found that to be: NOT TRUE!
Fact: sweet baby inc was fully involved in the making of her character
Proof:
Source:
Why Remedy Entertainment went all in on Saga Anderson in Alan Wake 2
An in-depth interview with Alan Wake 2 creative director Sam Lake and game director Kyle Rowley about designing the studio's first Black protagonist.
Which is not a problem by itself.
If the inclusion of an openly racist character is intended to provide social commentary or critique, it could be seen as a daring move to spark conversation about racism and its effects.
However, the effectiveness of this approach depends on the context in which the character is presented, the narrative surrounding their actions, and whether the game offers critical perspectives on the character's beliefs and behaviors.
This is where Alan Wake 2 fails.
The situation is problematic because the character's racism is not critically addressed within the game.
Even worse:
The racism in Alan Wake 2 mirrors the controversial social media posts of the Sweet Baby Inc CEO.
As a result, Alan Wake 2 appears to endorse or trivialize racism.
This can have harmful effects on the audience by normalizing prejudiced views, reinforcing stereotypes, and potentially encouraging similar behavior among players.
The alignment of the character's views with those publicly expressed by Sweet Baby's CEO raises ethical concerns.
It suggests a lack of critical distance from harmful ideologies and indicate an intention to use the game as a platform for spreading divisive or harmful ideas under the guise of entertainment.
Power Pro
Member
I really liked Alan Wake 2 while I was playing it for the most part, but I did have issues with by the time I finished it. Some of the stupid decisions ruined the experience for me. Hearing Saga complain about "another white guy controlling her fate" or something along those lines felt so out of left field and forced. I also did start to feel by the end of the game that she was high jacking the story. It felt like she was the real hero, and Alan Wake was just too weak to do anything himself. It's weird when you have something call Alan Wake, and the story makes it seem like it's actually called "Saga Anderson (and Alan Wake)".
I didn't know about SBi when I was playing the game, but hearing that a group like them was involved just feels so obvious now because the problems it has feel shoehorned in. Like someone else had took the script and inserted things into it.
I didn't know about SBi when I was playing the game, but hearing that a group like them was involved just feels so obvious now because the problems it has feel shoehorned in. Like someone else had took the script and inserted things into it.
Exactly. I don't know why the dude in this thread is trying to defend the game so hard twisting this blatant "white people suck" moment into some kind of a "black person overcoming her racism" moment.
First of all there was not a single moment in the game previously to this scene indicating that Saga was prejudiced against by white people etc. On the contrary she has a white partner who sings her praises from the first minute of the game.
Secondly, we are talking about Sweet Baby Inc whose employees don't even think there can be racism against white people.
It was an obvious personal touch from that toxic company, maybe even the CEO of Sweet Baby herself inserted that line there. A fuck you to the core audience of the game.
DirtyBast8rd
Member
Have to agree unfortunately. While Saga didn't bother me and I knew this was a diversity inclusion it didn't bother me up until the point it became clear SBI was involved. Puts it into a whole other perspective. The white asshole line does not bother me because I'm not a snowflake but it does bother me that a white dude saying something like that: 'that black bitch' would not be acceptable and would be labeled racist. Fuck that, that's not how it works. You either do or you don't. I'm a white/black mix so my life is hard picking sides (joke).
shaddam
Member
GameStar, one of the biggest gaming sites in Germany:
BIG "One of the biggest Steam curators, 'Sweet Baby Inc detected,' is currently fueling a huge hate campaign on the internet."
small "We explain why a consulting firm for games like Alan Wake 2, God of War Ragnarok, and Suicide Squad is being massively threatened."
Of course they deactivated the comments on this.
I checked out the Hungarian gamestar site and... its almost the same. They always had quality problems, but I never thought they are in the woke crowd too.
kurisu_1974
is on perm warning for being a low level troll
I made these and that is my contribution.
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STARSBarry
Gold Member
To be fair, that would require people to actually play Alan Wake II.
NoobSmog
Member
Armored core claw grip? WouldI made these and that is my contribution.
Randall365
Member
I think it’s worse than that - if this is a grift, as it looks like, with developers threatened with ‘cancellation’ in the media if they don’t consult with these companies (i.e. don’t you dare have a ‘tribe’ in your game or write for a character who is not identical to you) - then not only is this parasitical financially but it will change the story in all these games which we pay so much money for. If you have paid £70 for a major Sony release lately, you will know what I am talking about.
I am not adverse to people wanting to tell all sorts of diverse stories - but don’t try to change other peoples just to make a buck.
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SJRB
Gold Member
Claim: sweet baby inc had nothing to do with the development of the saga anderson character from alan wake 2
Neogaf expert fact checking department found that to be: NOT TRUE!
Fact: sweet baby inc was fully involved in the making of her character
Proof:
Source:
Why Remedy Entertainment went all in on Saga Anderson in Alan Wake 2
An in-depth interview with Alan Wake 2 creative director Sam Lake and game director Kyle Rowley about designing the studio's first Black protagonist.
I hate the Alan Wake bullshit so much. Especially Remedy going "Saga was black from the start, that was always our intention". Such a dumb thing to lie about. Saga Anderson is a character in other Remedy games and she's white there, plus Sam Lake himself posted an Alan Wake 2 teaser with white Saga.
The game was probably too far into production to just create a new character, but that's no reason to be so needlessly daft about this.
Lokaum D+
Member
not diverse enough 2/10Real life sweet baby employees photoed at dinner time with their own children.
Isn't AI great!
Zathalus
Member
Nobody in the game is racist. Have you played the game or are just basing your opinion on screenshots with no context?
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Claim: sweet baby inc had nothing to do with the development of the saga anderson character from alan wake 2
Neogaf expert fact checking department found that to be: NOT TRUE!
Fact: sweet baby inc was fully involved in the making of her character
Proof:
Source:
Why Remedy Entertainment went all in on Saga Anderson in Alan Wake 2
An in-depth interview with Alan Wake 2 creative director Sam Lake and game director Kyle Rowley about designing the studio's first Black protagonist.
Sounds perfectly fine to me. Makes me happier to have bought the game.
Aces High
Member
"Another white asshole deciding what I get to do, how I get to do it"
This statement is racist because it targets an individual based on their race and attributes negative characteristics or actions to them on that basis.
Alan Wake 2 has a racist protagonist.
Zathalus
Member
Of course it's a racist statement, nobody is arguing otherwise. The protagonist was brainwashed into saying it by a supernatural force and was immediately horrified that she said it. She was also forced to say horrible stuff about herself, her daughter, and her partner.
Context matters. Being forced against your will to do a certain action obviously doesn't mean you support said action.
InterMusketeer
Member
Seeing how SBI employees talk and think about white guys, and considering they were involved with the writing for this character, it makes the inclusion of this sentence suspect to say the least. I haven't played the game, but the sentence in question seems completely uncalled for. Even within context, she could have said a multitude of other horrible things, but the writers specifically wanted her to say something negative about white guys. That's weird.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
You say "context matters" but if it was the same thing turned around, it wouldn't matter and everyone knows it. NAACP and Al Sharpton and many others would cancel it into oblivion.
ssringo
Member
This is part of the problem at this point. We've have so much of this crap shoved into various media and making it worse for so long that even if something should be innocuous we can't help but be suspicious.
Listening to the scene being described it sounds like it should be fine but I've heard variations of "white man bad" so much and for so long that anything along those lines automatically sounds forced in by the dirtbags that spout shit on Twitter.
Aces High
Member
I stand corrected.
However, creating a video game character who, under a magic spell, starts making racially charged statements, is fraught with reputational risks.
It's a bad idea from a business perspective and also ethically and morally questionable.
Creating a character who suddenly starts making racist remarks, even under the guise of a magical spell, can normalize these behaviors. This is especially concerning if young people or impressionable individuals are part of the audience.
The fact that these racist statements mirror those of the Sweet Baby CEO on X reflects poorly on the ethical standards and cultural sensitivity of the company.
From an ethical standpoint, creating a narrative that trivializes racism by attributing it to a magical spell undermines the real-world struggle against racial discrimination.
It diminishes the experiences of those who face racism daily and can be seen as making light of serious issues. Ethical storytelling involves treating sensitive subjects with the gravity they deserve, not reducing them to plot devices or gimmicks.
Video games play a significant role in culture and society, often reflecting and influencing societal norms and values.
Introducing content that can be perceived as racist not only harms the individuals targeted by such statements but also contributes to a broader societal acceptance of intolerance.
This is counterproductive to the ongoing efforts to build more understanding communities.
The writing of the protagonist of Alan Wake 2 is not only a bad idea from a business perspective but also ethically and morally questionable. It undermines the game's potential for positive impact, risks significant backlash, and contributes to the perpetuation of harmful stereotypes and attitudes.
Valonquar
Member
Honestly I'm really not sure who "gaming journalism" sites are even for now. It definitely isn't for gamers IMHO. It's just a cliche circle jerk set of sites eating each other's shit and regurgitating it back out in overly obvious paid advertisement "reviews" and OP EDs. Half of them can't even be assed to even finish a game they review, or even have enough historical context to properly review anything.
elementalnocturne
Neo Member
If people on this side of the issue ignore nuance and look for any reason to get offended/upset they become just as dogmatic as the ResetERA types. It does not further your goals. Even if you are on the right side of the issue, to outsiders it makes you look just like them.
I want less DEI influence on media also but I want no part of a group of people that police what stories should be allowed to be told in the culture.
The steam page with 250,000 people means there is a lot of momentum but if the movement is going to turn into ResetERA but reversed then it will fail.
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Still the best.
Wichard!! We love him
elementalnocturne
Neo Member
This was from an Easter Egg that plays during Quantum Break which came out 7 years before Alan Wake 2. They weren’t even sure there would be an Alan Wake 2. How many TV show have pilots that recast when the show gets picked up?I hate the Alan Wake bullshit so much. Especially Remedy going "Saga was black from the start, that was always our intention". Such a dumb thing to lie about. Saga Anderson is a character in other Remedy games and she's white there, plus Sam Lake himself posted an Alan Wake 2 teaser with white Saga.
The game was probably too far into production to just create a new character, but that's no reason to be so needlessly daft about this.
Also
Saga is Mr. Door’s daughter which is something they probably wrote during development of the game. It makes sense that they would need to recast based on that. [\spoiler]
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Sleepwalker
Member
Claim: sweet baby inc had nothing to do with the development of the saga anderson character from alan wake 2
Neogaf expert fact checking department found that to be: NOT TRUE!
Fact: sweet baby inc was fully involved in the making of her character
Proof:
Source:
Why Remedy Entertainment went all in on Saga Anderson in Alan Wake 2
An in-depth interview with Alan Wake 2 creative director Sam Lake and game director Kyle Rowley about designing the studio's first Black protagonist.
The game was worse for it as Saga imo was a net negative to the franchise.
cormack12
Gold Member
Basically, it's now a platform for certain people - who have an issue with videogames still thought of as immature - to show the world how they are the mature, sophisticated part of the gaming community.
The funny thing is, they show themselves constantly to be the most insecure and stupid people time and again.
Unless they can make peace with the fact that even the most based video game is just how we waste time for entertainment they will always be self conscious. Who the fuck cares if your gf or wife walks in and you've got Eve's massive ass cheeks splayed as she's hacking off heads. Who cares if I'm cautiously picking my way through shrubbery sniping in BF, or if I sit down in GT7 and pretend I'm in Ford v Ferrari. I have to walk in while they're watching shit like dancing on ice, soap opera's or worse reading shite by Louise Bagshawe.
They have self elected themselves as model gamers. Which is different to the vomit inducing Gamers TM.
Games can tell interesting stories, and as a medium have a higher level of interaction. But the Simpsons has had some really poignant episodes with cultural commentary as well.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
Still the best.
Aces High
Member
Our goal shouldn't be about trying to be different from people we disagree with.
If people on this side of the issue ignore nuance and look for any reason to get offended/upset they become just as dogmatic as the ResetERA types. It does not further your goals. Even if you are on the right side of the issue, to outsiders it makes you look just like them.
I want less DEI influence on media also but I want no part of a group of people that police what stories should be allowed to be told in the culture.
The steam page with 250,000 people means there is a lot of momentum but if the movement is going to turn into ResetERA but reversed then it will fail.
The problem with the argument that just wants to make sure we don't look like the bad guys is that it misses the point.
This is not just about looking good. It's about actually doing good and bringing people together.
If we have a game with a black hero who starts saying racist things because of a magic spell, it does more harm than good. We can see that right now in online forums, in social media, in YouTube comments
It makes people feel more divided.
Instead, why not just have a likeable black hero? This way, we're adding to the stories that bring us together, not the ones that pull us apart.
The movie Schindler's List is a great example.
This movie teaches us about the Holocaust in a way that makes us understand the pain and the bravery of people back then. It shows us that even during terrible times, there were people who did the right thing. I, as a German, can watch Schindler's List without feeling offended, blamed or attacked. This is a big reason why people respect and learn from this movie.
Alan Wake 2, the Sweet Baby CEO, and that Kindred guy are the exact opposite of Schindler's List. They just add more fuel to the fire.
StueyDuck
Member
Whoa I've seen all those twitch streamers beforeI made these and that is my contribution.
balls of snow
Gold Member
.
Conveniently missed the note of the hick cops who said that people like her (ie of a certain skin colour) tends to stay together with regards to the Bookers.
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DaciaJC
Gold Member
Providing context is not being an "apologist for evil," come on. Argue all you want about the intent behind putting that line in the game, but let's not stoop to personal attacks, else we're no better than Era where nuance is considered heresy.
elementalnocturne
Neo Member
The goal should be to shun identity politics and welcome a world where racial identity doesn't matter. Fighting identity politics with more identity politics just makes outsiders hate both sides.
Once again the line that everyone is making such a big deal about is NOT PRESENTED AS A POSTIVIE ATTRIBUTE. It is part of a mental breakdown and inner demons that the character has to fight against. Let a story just be a story without looking to be so reactionary and stop looking to find problems that don't exist. That's what ResetERA does every time they see an attractive female character or a white straight male. How are the people trashing Alan Wake 2 doing anything different?
Saga should be the gold standard as to how to do a likeable black hero in a game.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Identity politics doesn't even make sense because people use it to silo and segregate people. I thought the world was all about understanding and not trying to go skin deep (or gender deep) splicing the population into fragments? Yet here we are where a million acronym groups wants their day under a Hollywood spotlight.
As for the AW2 hate for the "another white asshole telling me what to do" it is totally justified because media is very one sided when it comes to political claims like that. White people (esp. the guys) are punching bags.
Now if the story was changed and it was a white character whose inner demons were "another black asshole looting a store" because his back story was his parents convenience store got mobbed by black teens stealing shit, you know very well that example of creative writing would be nailed to the cross.
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