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[p3n]

What EVERYBODY is missing here though, is that doesn't mean the AI can't get unrealistic good traction and acceleration out of the previous corner exit, meaning that they get closer to that top speed way before your car does.

Which is exactly what is happening.

The AI all of a sudden is the master of braking, apex holding and exiting corners at full throttle to the point where they can approach ANY skill level of player as if they have unlimited KERS. IF anything, I'd say that's exactly what it is. The AI has a hidden KERS button which allows it to get massive acceleration out of corners that IMO is not possible for players to get.

Regardless of what the so called definition of rubber banding is, this method still essentially means that the cars end up somehow going inexplicably faster than you on a straight, which is precisely the thing people don't like about rubber banding......

Try the BAC Mono on the Pro Tour event...then read your own statement again.

 

[Hugstable]

All these mountain tracks that can get twisty keep reminding me of Initial D, and it makes me want a track like Irohazaka so bad as like one of the DLC tracks in DC. I mean just check how crazy this track gets in its own game, and it's based on a real life mountain road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7W2IrZHTQ

176/16 = 11 events per pack.

Coincidentally the current tours in the game (Rookie, Amateur etc.) each have 11 or 10 events.

So it seems 1 tour pack will be similar content wise as the tours we have in the game now.

Ohh that would be pretty awesome then.

 

[p3tran]

Yep, and I haven't seen anybody denying it. The rubber-banding, and specifically the AI slowing down to a crawl when the player messes up is my one big criticism when it comes to the parts of the game that work ;p

I don't mind aggressive AI though, and they've never come from behind unfairly that I've noticed. But in one of the Inside Sim Racing videos the host crashed three times - and I'm talking complete spin-offs the road and going sideways - on the last lap mind you - and he still finished first. It was an early race, but that really shouldn't have happened.


Were they drafting you or in a car with a higher top speed? One of those seems to be true when I've had that happen. That or I've seen the AI getting a better start off of the line because they nail their shifting. On straights its either drafting or a better car, or maybe you hit the brakes too much on that last turn?

rushy denied it, didnt he?

I think ISR was critical of evo, both with the rubberbanding and also with game not being as smooth/fluid as it ought to be.
"shame on the devs for this, with all the extra time they had" or something in the lines of that, I am pretty sure they said that while doing racing.


about the second part you say, it has been my experience too, especially after running a solid race, near the finishing line, the opponent cars behind me usually hit extra big turbo boost button. I was usually looking backwards in my finishing line sprint (after remapping look back to R3), so I could close the road to any ai that suddenly found 200hp more just to pass me on finish line...

 

[TylerDurden4321]

AI slowing down because you are slow isn't really rubber banding - at least in a problematic way - it's just making the game more interesting and less frustrating for the less able players - it doesn't impact your game if you are a better player. Everyone gets a challenge and no one gets an unfair advantage for lap time comparison because the player isn't boosted, just the AI is restricted.

But you see how it can be frustrating when you drive poorly and still be rewarded in the end, then in another race feel like you've perfected all the really difficult corners, the reward system of your brain is stimulated and ready to fire on all cylinders and at the end you get overtaken on the last long straight. It's a problem in AI drivers that needs a name. If the name isn't rubberbanding it needs a different name.

 

[ambar_hitman]

2 more videos I uploaded (dont miss tunnel lights and fireworks) :

Nail biting finish in this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyl6bAB78Z8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCulNP7nm6g

 

[BloodMoney]

The AI is far better than those whom I've raced against online...

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I just saw I posted in the challenge thread oops

finally got pass Rookie Trophy taking my time and using the brake lol

I guess all that grinding helped me out too now I don't feel so weak sauce

I am going to keep practicing

 

[viveks86]

For the record, I've done all 225 stars, and the only time I've been overtaken in the last straight when I didn't screw it up is if I was being chased by a faster car. And I'm not even great at racing. Since everyone is making these claims based on anecdotes, this is mine.

 

[DrDamn]

But you see how it can be frustrating when you drive poorly and still be rewarded in the end, then in another race feel like you've perfected all the really difficult corners, the reward system of your brain is stimulated and ready to fire on all cylinders and at the end you get overtaken on the last long straight. It's a problem in AI drivers that needs a name. If the name isn't rubberbanding it needs a different name.

Dynamic AI? . I think in the latter case you are experiencing the AI at the level it should be experienced for the race and to win in that situation is lots more rewarding in a pure game-playing sense than crashing out and catching up with some slowed drivers.

The slowing of the AI is a reasonable compromise between a single mistake ruining a race and a full rewind system - which I'm glad of in other games but I don't want in everything. Maybe it needs tweaking a little, but don't just look at it as the result of the race - look at how you win and take the extra satisfaction in that.

 

[AndyD]

For the record, I've done all 225 stars, and the only time I've been overtaken in the last straight when I didn't screw it up is if I was being chased by a faster car. And I'm not even great at racing. Since everyone is making these claims based on anecdotes, this is mine.

I don't have 225 stars, but that's my experience so far. Much like how I can effectively draft and pass a technically faster car if I position correctly, they can do it to us.

As to larger scale AI changes when the gap gets big/small I am not sure what I think of it. Overall though, I still think I would like to see more variety over time. As in they should space out more. Now they seem to stick in clumps/tiers, and you can often tell the top/middle/bottom groups that form with a few seconds between groups.

Also, I would like for personality to carry over. Since they use real names for the AI drivers, I want them to have individual identities so I know that Beth is always fast and reckless and Mary is always slow but accurate.

 

[p3tran]

Dynamic AI? . I think in the latter case you are experiencing the AI at the level it should be experienced for the race and to win in that situation is lots more rewarding in a pure game-playing sense than crashing out and catching up with some slowed drivers.

The slowing of the AI is a reasonable compromise between a single mistake ruining a race and a full rewind system - which I'm glad of in other games but I don't want in everything. Maybe it needs tweaking a little, but don't just look at it as the result of the race - look at how you win and take the extra satisfaction in that.

how so? I mean, its not the first racing game ever created. I think we have some pretty good standards in the last 10 years or so.
we call a white color -> white, and black color -> black. likewise, if there is rubber banding, there is rubber banding.
try to rename meat -> fish, is not the best thing to do.

 

[Toma]

For the record, I've done all 225 stars, and the only time I've been overtaken in the last straight when I didn't screw it up is if I was being chased by a faster car. And I'm not even great at racing. Since everyone is making these claims based on anecdotes, this is mine.

People dont realize how important it is to get out of a turn with a good acceleration, a well timed break and acceleration into the turn (instead of only starting to accelerate after the turn) helps a lot with that. I never had these issues.

 

[DrDamn]

But you see how it can be frustrating when you drive poorly and still be rewarded in the end, then in another race feel like you've perfected all the really difficult corners, the reward system of your brain is stimulated and ready to fire on all cylinders and at the end you get overtaken on the last long straight. It's a problem in AI drivers that needs a name. If the name isn't rubberbanding it needs a different name.

Also consider that this doesn't happen all the time and that essentially you are seeing the AI occasionally nail a corner. Essentially some variance in a set AI level - which is kind of a good thing too? Makes them a bit less predictable and a bit more real. It feels a lot more like racing decent human opponents to me. Even down to random shunts as you overtake them and smashing into your back end as they try to out brake you into a corner.

Is it my imagination or do AI cars also get the same penalties for collisions we do too? I often feel like other cars get restricted when I do too - which is fantastic is true.

 

[travisbickle]

But you see how it can be frustrating when you drive poorly and still be rewarded in the end, then in another race feel like you've perfected all the really difficult corners, the reward system of your brain is stimulated and ready to fire on all cylinders and at the end you get overtaken on the last long straight. It's a problem in AI drivers that needs a name. If the name isn't rubberbanding it needs a different name.

If you get overtaken in the last long straight either your cars not fast enough or you're a bad driver.

 

[hellmonkey]

I really don't think there is rubber banding or super powered cars. I did 75% of the tour and never once though the AI was being unfair. If I raced a clean lap/race then I got to first and stayed there. If I got sloppy, I lost 1st place and had to get it back. Its as simple as that.

Lets think about this logically and it will make more sense.

1. This is not a racing sim, its sim-arcade, so AI wont start perfect, that's not fun or welcome to casuals.

2. Given 1, assume that as long as you are in the back half of the pack, the AI drives at 70% (just a number from my ass) of max. This means they will only use 70% throttle of go up to 70% of the skidpad in a turn.

3. As you advance to the front of the pack, the AI becomes more aggressive, up to 100% of the cars abilities.

4. If the AI is pushing the car 100% AND so are you, then you should both have near identical lap times. If you mess up, the AI will pass you, its that simple. Don't take bad lines, and don't go into turns too fast.

5. Packs travel faster than single cars. This is because of drafting. Cars will use the draft to slingshot past each other, this "artificially" increases their max speed. I saw this all the time in Gran Turismo. On high speed ovals, wind resistance would limit the top speed of the car, despite gearing. Get in a draft and the wind resistance lowers, so you can go much faster, but once you get ahead of the car you drafted, you slow back down because you have the full wind resistance again. Then the car you just drafted, drafts you and goes around. This process repeats the whole race.

The AI is this game tough but fair, at least from what Ive seen. Now, the carnage and pile ups in corners is another thing, and quite annoying at times. But I do same to the AI, so turnabout is fair play.

 

[Flail]

NfS is the best example of rubberbanding...

I played NfS Hot Pursuit and drove with the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport with a max speed of 258 mph (415 km/h)
I was leading and kicked in my boost on the freeway and got to a speed up as high as 450km/h and a few moments later I was overtaken by a Porsche 911 GT2 RS with a max speed of 205 mph (329 km/h)

That's the definition of rubberbanding and this will never happen in DriveClub!

 

[OmegaDL50]

how so? I mean, its not the first racing game ever created. I think we have some pretty good standards in the last 10 years or so.
we call a white color -> white, and black color -> black. if there is rubber banding, there is rubber banding.
try to rename meat -> fish, is not the best thing to do.

Rubberbanding is when an AI car is given an artificial speed boost to keep up with the player.

If a car the AI is using has a max speed of 170mph and the game allows them to do 200mph for a "fake" advantage then yes this would be rubberbanding. Driveclub has not shown to do this.

I've yet to see the AI to do the impossible in being able to push a car far beyond it's actual speed limits, outside of Drafting which also happens in actual real life racing.

Edit: Flail's post above me has a good explanation on actual rubberbanding.

 

[p3tran]

If you get overtaken in the last long straight either your cars not fast enough or you're a bad driver.

OR there is rubber banding, which really is the case here.

come on guys... deal with reality. this is not looking handsome for any of you.

 

[Topi]

I've never loved and hated any game this much before. If the online worked they way it was meant to work, I'd rate this 10/10. At the moment it's still probably 8/10.

 

[travisbickle]

OR there is rubber banding, which really is the case here.

come on guys... deal with reality. this is not looking handsome for any of you.

The developers said there isn't rubberbanding.

It's quite easy for you to record some footage and post it here to show us.

But I remember the old footage of Canada when everyone screamed rubberbanding from the clip of a CPU player passing on the straight just before the finishing line. I said the player braked when he didn't need to. And guess what, now I own the game I have never braked on that last corner to finish.

 

[viveks86]

OR there is rubber banding, which really is the case here.

come on guys... deal with reality. this is not looking handsome for any of you.

Ok then. Must have been dreaming through all my races. Either that or my irrational love for the game is clouding my judgment. That was my last comment on that topic anyway.

 

[hellmonkey]

Try the BAC Mono on the Pro Tour event...then read your own statement again.

I think I may have done this last night, or maybe it was another event. I had the BAC Mono and there were 2 Atoms in the race. The Mono was way more responsive in the turns and acceleration, but it lacked top end. This is also reflected in the stats during car selection (I think, I only did this race once and only looked at the cars stats once, and the Atom was still locked for me). Anyway, in the twisties, the Mono was an unmatched beast flying through the turns. On the straits, it sucked cause it had no top end. The Atom flew by me on a long strait, but I easily caught back up in the curved part of the track.

 

[baconcow]

For the record, I've done all 225 stars, and the only time I've been overtaken in the last straight when I didn't screw it up is if I was being chased by a faster car. And I'm not even great at racing. Since everyone is making these claims based on anecdotes, this is mine.

You have played a lot more than I. However, I have been overtaken on a straight (always at the end of a race, too) by slower cars (both in velocity and acceleration). These vehicles were not within drafting distance (at least in the occasions that frustrate me) and came out of the final turns slower than I did. Therefore, there is no physical way they could have passed me since I was on a straight, out of drafting range, and at a higher velocity than they were. This would mean the game gave them an acceleration that was not possible for their car, a velocity that was not possible for their car, a drafting condition that was not possible for their car, or just plain rubber banded them.

Once replays are part of this game, these rubberbanding elements will be very obvious. It will be humorous to watch these overtakes at the end of a race, to find a car exceeding its physical capability, something Rushy claimed was not possible.

On another note, there desperately needs to be multiplayer collision penalties (slowdowns). There also need to be more race and time trial collision penalties. Nothing worse than beating your time trial by a significant amount, finding that you bounced off of a corner or two, at high speed, in the process. This may not seem like a big deal, now, but will mess up online and the leaderboards, in the long run.

 

[AndyD]

Also consider that this doesn't happen all the time and that essentially you are seeing the AI occasionally nail a corner. Essentially some variance in a set AI level - which is kind of a good thing too? Makes them a bit less predictable and a bit more real. It feels a lot more like racing decent human opponents to me. Even down to random shunts as you overtake them and smashing into your back end as they try to out brake you into a corner.

Is it my imagination or do AI cars also get the same penalties for collisions we do too? I often feel like other cars get restricted when I do too - which is fantastic is true.

They do. I sometimes get a speed penalty and so does another AI ahead of me, and we both lose a bunch of spots. I took a video of it yesterday where this red Ferrari and I got 3-4 penalties each in the same race and he was always just ahead of me.

 

[AndyD]

You have played a lot more than I. However, I have been overtaken on a straight (always at the end of a race, too) by slower cars (both in velocity and acceleration). These vehicles were not within drafting distance (at least in the occasions that frustrate me) and came out of the final turns slower than I did. Therefore, there is no physical way they could have passed me since I was on a straight, out of drafting range, and at a higher velocity than they were. This would mean the game gave them an acceleration that was not possible for their car, a velocity that was not possible for their car, a drafting condition that was not possible for their car, or just plain rubber banded them.

Once replays are part of this game, these rubberbanding elements will be very obvious. It will be humorous to watch these overtakes at the end of a race, to find a car exceeding its physical capability, something Rushy claimed was not possible.

One way or another there will be crow to eat.

 

[Putty]

OR there is rubber banding, which really is the case here.

come on guys... deal with reality. this is not looking handsome for any of you.

Rushy said there isn't any, I've not seen any, thus I'll go with my own reality.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

I'm not great at racing games and I rarely play them, and I found the Ai to be perfectly reasonable. The only time I had difficulty with them was in one of the last events where you have two races and you are all in either a n atom or a bac mono. On the straights literally all the AI players in atoms would shoot past me and take harsh turnings perfectly.

Other than that event and the venom hot lap I found the single player tour to be incredibly easy. But it was a fun ride as I never do well in most raceing games.

 

[Lady Gaia]

OR there is rubber banding, which really is the case here.

There's a certain amount of "rubber banding" in competitive behavior. When there's someone ahead of me I'm more likely to take risks and push to make up time, while when I'm in front I may tend to get more conservative so as not to blow my lead. I have no problem at all with something like that being modeled into AI.

The reality is that I was initially getting completely trashed in races, but taking the time to get better makes a huge difference. Tracks where I was finishing dead last initially now have me finishing first by a wide margin using the exact same car. It's fun and rewards dedication. What more should I be asking for, exactly?

The only times a comparable car passes me it has either been drafting or it clearly came out of the prior turn on a better line than me.

 

[frizby]

NfS is the best example of rubberbanding...

I played NfS Hot Pursuit and drove with the Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport with a max speed of 258 mph (415 km/h)
I was leading and kicked in my boost on the freeway and got to a speed up as high as 450km/h and a few moments later I was overtaken by a Porsche 911 GT2 RS with a max speed of 205 mph (329 km/h)

That's the definition of rubberbanding and this will never happen in DriveClub!

You're right. This will never happen in Driveclub, because neither of these cars are in Driveclub.

Edit...Maybe the GT2?

 

[p3tran]

The developers said there wasn't rubberbanding.

It's quite easy for you to record some footage and post it here to show us.

But I remember the old footage of Canada when everyone screamed rubberbanding from the clip of a CPU player passing on the straight just before the finishing line. I said the player braked when he didn't need to. And guess what, now I own the game I have never braked on that last corner to finish.

you know what? I'm not making a video.

and I also said before (look above) that rushy always said there will be no rubber banding,
and the game is full of it.



now, game is out for almost two weeks, right?

if you guys that are playing it, and giving all these great comments about it, you cant even tell if there is rubber banding or not after two weeks playing it, then I should just remember to never take your opinion in racing games for anything in the future...

 

[baconcow]

One way or another there will be crow to eat.

I don't mind preparing my plate, if the time comes and I am found incorrect. However, if the AI stops passing me on straightaways, at the end of a race, I might just re-shelve my plate.

you know what? I'm not making a video.

and I also said before (look above) that rushy always said there will be no rubber banding,
and the game is full of it.



now, game is out for almost two weeks, right?

if you guys that are playing it, and giving all these great comments about it, you cant even tell if there is rubber banding or not after two weeks playing it, then I should just remember to never take your opinion in racing games for anything in the future...

There definitely is a form of rubberbanding in this game. I plan on recording my video, now, to capture obvious times it occurred.

 

[hellmonkey]

OR there is rubber banding, which really is the case here.

come on guys... deal with reality. this is not looking handsome for any of you.

The reality is people need to learn to drive. Racing is pretty easy, racing well is quite difficult. Missing the apex of a turn or taking a bad line can drastically increase lap times, especially when turns/curves are chained together.

 

[Flail]

about drafting

The low-pressure wake behind a group's leading car reduces the aerodynamic resistance on the front of the trailing car allowing the second car to pull closer. As the second car nears the first it pushes high-pressure air forward so less fast-moving air hits the lead car's spoiler. The result is less drag for both cars, allowing faster speeds.

they AI don't need to be in range of you if they drive in a bulk

 

[viveks86]

One way or another there will be crow to eat.

Yeah. I'm really tired of this never ending debate with what seems like the exact same people over and over again. I'd rather eat crow than go through this. Just give me replays with real numbers and prove me I'm wrong. Until then, I'm doing fine sticking to my alleged delusions.

 

[p3n]

OR there is rubber banding, which really is the case here.

come on guys... deal with reality. this is not looking handsome for any of you.

How do you explain this:

Pro Tour - MP12C, 3x 1st place, top speed just above 310kph on BHR.
Pro Tour - BAC Mono, 3x 1st place, top speed 255kph (physical limit of gear box)
Pro Tour - Vanquish, not even close to the top 3, top speed ~275kph on BHR

The lead over 2nd place on BHR with the 12C was ~9 seconds, with the BAC Mono ~7 seconds. No rubber banding. Just some cars are really bad and some are really good. If you are a consistently good driver the better cars will win every time. Even if said cars are very different (Mono vs MP12C).

 

[travisbickle]

you know what? I'm not making a video.

and I also said before (look above) that rushy always said there will be no rubber banding,
and the game is full of it.



now, game is out for almost two weeks, right?

if you guys that are playing it, and giving all these great comments about it, you cant even tell if there is rubber banding or not after two weeks playing it, then I should just remember to never take your opinion in racing games for anything in the future...

you're crazy. Your opinion isn't the truth, stop acting like this.

 

[ricen-beans]

then I should just remember to never take your opinion in racing games for anything in the future...

Likewise

 

[Shchenok]

I present to you all, one of my worst events (and my worst wreck) ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaqfyYLyBZc

 

[p3tran]

The reality is people need to learn to drive. Racing is pretty easy, racing well is quite difficult. Missing the apex of a turn or taking a bad line can drastically increase lap times, especially when turns/curves are chained together.

are you telling me I dont know how to take a turn? and you think this is the reason for what I write? lol
are you for real?

anyway, I think I wont be participating in this thread anymore. I mean, I can easily deal with whatever aspects of the game came as slight disappointments to me. I can even enjoy it.
but to deal with all this damage control from forumers? nope. better things to do. enjoy

 

[viveks86]

On another note, there desperately needs to be multiplayer collision penalties (slowdowns). There also need to be more race and time trial collision penalties. Nothing worse than beating your time trial by a significant amount, finding that you bounced off of a corner or two, at high speed, in the process. This may not seem like a big deal, now, but will mess up online and the leaderboards, in the long run.

At least we can agree on this. I'm bowing out of the other debate. People (not you) are starting to be disrespectful and condescending to each other, so I want no part of it

 

[Hugstable]

are you telling me I dont know how to take a turn? and you think this is the reason for what I write? lol
are you for real?

Why not just restart the race and try it again, the races aren't all that long and if you're a good driver in the game and don't crash alot then maybe you'll win, just keep trying, or stop playing. Even if it does have slight Rubberbanding (I don't think it does myself), there are many games that have had rubberbanding and aren't shit because of it. If you actually own the game, the time spent arguing about this way outweighs the time it would take to retry the race. Also if you believe it's a problem happening alot, why not take a video and share with us, it's not too hard to record and I wouldn't mind seeing if the rubberbanding is real or not. Either way it wouldn't detract from the enjoyment of the game myself, but we need some kinda proof if you want people to believe that there is rubberbanding in teh game and not just "ohh he passed me

anyway, I think I wont be participating in this thread anymore. I mean, I can easily deal with whatever aspects of the game came as slight disappointments to me. I can even enjoy it.
but to deal with all this damage control from forumers? nope. better things to do. enjoy

You came in here with zero proof of it, what do you expect? Kinda weird how you participating in this thread is based off us disliking the game or not...

 

[Coolbgdog12]

I had a dream challenges were working.

 

[baconcow]

At least we can agree on this. I'm bowing out of the other debate. People (not you) are starting to be disrespectful and condescending to each other, so I want no part of it

I meant no disrespect. I am going to take a video to support my claims before I am more elaborate with them. Maybe, with one, a more constructive viewpoint can be made on the games AI and capabilities (regardless of the findings). On the record, I would love to prove myself wrong, as I hate rubberbanding AI with a passion.

 

[hellmonkey]

are you telling me I dont know how to take a turn? and you think this is the reason for what I write? lol
are you for real?

anyway, I think I wont be participating in this thread anymore. I mean, I can easily deal with whatever aspects of the game came as slight disappointments to me. I can even enjoy it.
but to deal with all this damage control from forumers? nope. better things to do. enjoy

Just curious, have you gotten 3 stars in the Venom hot lap?

 

[viveks86]

I meant no disrespect. I am going to take a video to support my claims before I am more elaborate with them. Maybe, with one, a more constructive viewpoint can be made on the games AI and capabilities (regardless of the findings). On the record, I would love to prove myself wrong, as I hate rubberbanding AI with a passion.

That would definitely help have a reasonable conversation (though I'm a little skeptical). However it turns out, thanks for the effort.

 

[liger05]

Surprise surprise try to play some multiplayer and get error messages.

What a clusterfuck!!!

 

[Nyx]

if you guys that are playing it, and giving all these great comments about it, you cant even tell if there is rubber banding or not after two weeks playing it, then I should just remember to never take your opinion in racing games for anything in the future...

Ah, didn't know you were Mr. Know-it-All, in that case, you're absolutely right, all the time.

 

[Nafai1123]

How do you explain this:

Pro Tour - MP12C, 3x 1st place, top speed just above 310kph on BHR.
Pro Tour - BAC Mono, 3x 1st place, top speed 255kph (physical limit of gear box)
Pro Tour - Vanquish, not even close to the top 3, top speed ~275kph on BHR

The lead over 2nd place on BHR with the 12C was ~9 seconds, with the BAC Mono ~7 seconds. No rubber banding. Just some cars are really bad and some are really good. If you are a consistently good driver the better cars will win every time. Even if said cars are very different (Mono vs MP12C).

Exactly. The cars will not go faster than they are physically capable of. The AI will adapt based on how good you are, but a good player can always be faster than even the legend difficulty AI.

 

[chippy13]

Honest question here, with all of the issues that are plaguing this game, is it worth picking up now or should I wait? I'm a casual racing fan that has owned some GT games in the past and wondering whether to pick this game up.

 

[p3n]

I think I may have done this last night, or maybe it was another event. I had the BAC Mono and there were 2 Atoms in the race. The Mono was way more responsive in the turns and acceleration, but it lacked top end. This is also reflected in the stats during car selection (I think, I only did this race once and only looked at the cars stats once, and the Atom was still locked for me). Anyway, in the twisties, the Mono was an unmatched beast flying through the turns. On the straits, it sucked cause it had no top end. The Atom flew by me on a long strait, but I easily caught back up in the curved part of the track.

Exactly. IF there was top speed rubber banding the Mono would be impossible to beat. IF there was rubber banding in terms of grip or acceleration, the Mono would be just a bad car because those are the only good traits that set it apart.

At one point I thought the AI was rubber banding. That was when I first entered the Pro Tour. I had only the Scuderia and the Vanquish to compete in this event. It was impossible to win. The lack of acceleration and top speed on both cars made the McLarens, 458s and One77s look like they where rubber banding because of how easily they passed me on every straight.

The best overall time I could achieve with the Vanquish was 13:55:XX. The BAC Mono and MP12C do 13:15:XX with ease.