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[Scotch]

The ban is well deserved, but I think we could have done without this thread.

 

[Slayer-33]

Both GAF and Dyack just seem childish as hell.

You mean all of Dyack and some of GAF?


I'm sure as hell that I am sane.

Oh btw, good job EvilLore well done. Some people don't seem to notice how merciful that ban was to Mr.Dyack.

 

[Snaku]

So the time has finally come... mr. dyack has been banned. i hope that this fiasco makes him re-thinks his approach to dealing with gamers or the internet in general.

Unfortunately I only see him becoming more bitter after it's all said and done.

 

[AlexM]

Ouch... comparing Dyack to Smart?

That's a low blow for Dr. Smart.

lmao, exactly what I was thinking

 

[kay]

The ban is well deserved, but I think we could have done without this thread.

Yeah, we should have paraded on news sites how Dyack was killing the message board industry and how he doesn't get it.

 

[xS1TH L0RDx]

Unfortunately I only see him becoming more bitter after it's all said and done.

To be fair, this thread is proving his point.

 

[Flavius]

The worst part of this whole thing is the Gaf VS 1up aspect. I love Gaf. I love 1up. Please be friends.

I agree 1up could have done more to come back at Denis when he was on the show, but I also understand why they didn't. If I had a podcast there would be nothing better for it than to have both a controversy and a developer come in and say outlandish, crazy, and entertaining things about the controversy. Honestly, that Dyack bit and this whole thing has probably been best for 1up. They were a bit of an intermediary, and they got the big interview we all wanted to hear. I'm glad they both gave him that time, and aired it. I think Shane was too cuddly with Dyack, but Garnett made up for it by questioning Dyack on some key points, and also with this video:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168552

I'll admit, I was one of the first people to question why (and please don't take offense to this 1up guys) someone like Shawn Elliot wasn't on the podcast when Dyack came on to wax philosophical.

And then I thought about it a bit more. No disrespect to Dyack (honest!) intended, but that likely would have just devolved into something terribly embarrassing for him. I'm not saying the other guys weren't capable of tearing down his hypotheses, rather, I'm suggesting the more appropriate move was probably not to do so in the first instance.

 

[commariodore64]

Both GAF and Dyack just seem childish as hell.

Yes - you are the lone wolf standing above us all...

 

[Snaku]

To be fair, this thread is proving his point.

He brought it on himself.

 

[skip]

shawn wasn't in the office during that interview. iirc, he was on a local assignment.

 

[Dirtbag]

The ban is well deserved, but I think we could have done without this thread.

Threads are all this forum has got. It should be in Off-topic though.
I guess some would say that threads like this generate hype, hits, reputation. And those same people would say that such things equate ad revenue = money. ( any thoughts besada? )

I've enjoyed the thread. This was a good read. That's all I personally care about.

 

[npm0925]

Don't look to 1UP for any kind of journalism; it's basically -- in the words of Michael Kane, author of Game Boys -- a video game catalog. And that's coming from a sports reporter (ouch).

 

[PantherLotus]

To be fair, this thread is proving his point.

parts of this thread are proving parts of his point. parts of this thread are proving how very wrong he is.

 

[Luckyman]

So sad that the mods need to grow their ep

 

[Crayon]

This thread is like a little christmas.

I thank you all. Even the dumbfucks.

 

[kaching]

To be fair, this thread is proving his point.

For every Dyack, there are at least several dozen more devs using this forum appropriately and constructively.

 

[commariodore64]

To be fair, this thread is proving his point.

interestingly enough - it's the folks like you (and the 'Gaf is Childish' crowd)that are trying to cause dissension among the ranks. Everyone here is having fun discussing the epic failure of this series of events in context. Leave us be...

 

[burgerdog]

Interesting thread, I loved Jaffe's post.

Spoiler

We want a new Twisted Metal or whatever else you might be cooking!

 

[Flavius]

shawn wasn't in the office during that interview. iirc, he was on a local assignment.

Uh, can a random nerd from the internet put you on the spot and ask you how you think it would have turned out if Shawn had been on that episode?

 

[commariodore64]

shawn wasn't in the office during that interview. iirc, he was on a local assignment.

Admit it. Shawn was arranging his apartment in the HOME Beta - right?

 

[dermannmitdemcolt]

The ban is well deserved, but I think we could have done without this thread.

This!

A simple ban without all this cringeworthy drama would've been very cool.

 

[Ten-Song]

interestingly enough - it's the folks like you (and the 'Gaf is Childish' crowd)that are trying to cause dissension among the ranks. Everyone here is having fun discussing the epic failure of this series of events in context. Leave us be...

Seems less like just having a good time, and more like a lot of e-peen stroking.

 

[commariodore64]

This!

A simple ban without all this cringeworthy drama would've been very cool.

Again with this? WHAT DRAMA!? It ended with the first post by EvilLore.
The rest is DISCUSSION! ON A FORUM!?!

 

[skip]

Uh, can a random nerd from the internet put you on the spot and ask you how you think it would have turned out if Shawn had been on that episode?

he probably wouldn't have been on in the first place, because we went down into the studio expecting to talk about too human, which shawn hadn't played at that point.

in hypothetical land...it definitely would have been different. and perhaps even longer and more disjointed/tangiental. hard to say.

 

[GameSeeker]

One of the rules of being in any business is conveyed by the aphorism "the customer is always right, even when he/she is wrong". This aphorism takes many forms, but it should be understood by anyone that wants to be part of a capitalistic business. You can disagree with your customer or potential customer, but don't insult them, sue them, call them names or deny that their opinion is valid, if you wish to stay in business.

Denis Dyack unfortunately doesn't understand this. So he reaps what he sows. Fortunately, many developers (like David Jaffe!) understand this basic business principle and they will be successful over the long term.

Everyone on NeoGAF (love 'em or hate 'em) is a customer or a potential gaming customer. If you are in the business of making a profit from making/distributing/selling/reviewing/etc. games, keep that in mind when reading/posting on NeoGAF.

 

[BirdBomb]

this is just giving dyack more attention, which is all he wanted anyway. didnt too human shatter the record for most downloaded demo on live?

 

[Alex Anderson]

Finally. He should have been given the boot after failing to "put up," making it 100% obvious he was just using the forum to advertise his game. It was only 99.9% obvious before said failure to put up

OP reeks a little of "epic intent" to me, oh well

 

[commariodore64]

Seems less like just having a good time, and more like a lot of e-peen stroking.

Examples, please...

Spoiler

99% of this topic has been typical snarky discussion. 1% has been serious hatred by a VOCAL MINORITY

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

wow

 

[Zeliard]

I'll admit, I was one of the first people to question why (and please don't take offense to this 1up guys) someone like Shawn Elliot wasn't on the podcast when Dyack came on to wax philosophical.

And then I thought about it a bit more. No disrespect to Dyack (honest!) intended, but that likely would have just devolved into something terribly embarrassing for him. I'm not saying the other guys weren't capable of tearing down his hypotheses, rather, I'm suggesting the more appropriate move was probably not to do so in the first instance.

1UP should simply have entered the discussion more, whether that involves refuting his points or simply interjecting with another point. The main (and really, quite tiny) issue with Dyack's 1UP Yours appearance is that it was a bit too one-sided. I also strongly doubt the 1UP guys were expecting Dyack to talk about what he did ultimately talk about (except in general terms), and there's really no way they could've known precisely what it would all entail even if they did know exactly what he'd be discussing. They were clearly taken aback a bit.

There's no reason for anyone to be making a big deal about it, or suggesting that 1UP stayed silent because there were simply seeking to profit from the controversy. There's no indication of that at all, while there is indication that they were legitimately surprised by Dyack's diatribe in the podcast.

 

[Pimpbaa]

99% of this topic has been typical snarky discussion. 1% has been serious hatred by a VOCAL MINORITY

Serious hatred towards Dyack or the game? Because any dislike towards the game is valid since it quite simply isn't that good.

 

[Flavius]

he probably wouldn't have been on in the first place, because we went down into the studio expecting to talk about too human, which shawn hadn't played at that point.

in hypothetical land...it definitely would have been different. and perhaps even longer and more disjointed/tangiental. hard to say.

Thanks for responding.

 

[drakesfortune]

This!

A simple ban without all this cringeworthy drama would've been very cool.

Don't you think we all kind of deserved a response after the for or against thing? Questions would have never ceased if there had been no response to that epic thread, after the game got bad reviews. The majority of the people on this board were wondering what the response to Denis' thread would be, once the reviews came in good bad or otherwise, whether it be a tag, a ban, or this thread.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Has this been posted yet? TooHuman.net's thread on the fiasco. It's pretty goddamn hilarious.

http://toohuman.net/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&func=view&id=68469&catid=2#68469

:lol

lol just found that... would read again.

 

[h3ro]

he probably wouldn't have been on in the first place, because we went down into the studio expecting to talk about too human, which shawn hadn't played at that point.

in hypothetical land...it definitely would have been different. and perhaps even longer and more disjointed/tangiental. hard to say.

Jeff Green would have been great as well. Imagine hearing him snoring in the background while Dyack was going on and on... :lol

 

[SetUhatU]

Pages and pages of ranting and raving...

This sounds like a good game. Will we see a PS3 version?

 

[commariodore64]

1UP should simply have entered the discussion more, whether that involves refuting his points or simply interjecting with another point. The main (and really, quite tiny) issue with Dyack's 1UP Yours appearance is that it was a bit too one-sided. I also strongly doubt the 1UP guys were expecting Dyack to talk about what he did ultimately talk about (except in general terms), and there's really no way they could've known precisely what it would all entail even if they did know exactly what he'd be discussing. They were clearly taken aback a bit.

There's no reason for anyone to be making a big deal about it, or suggesting that 1UP stayed silent because there were simply seeking to profit from the controversy. There's no indication of that at all, while there is indication that they were legitimately surprised by Dyack's diatribe in the podcast.

Agreed. I don't think EvilLore meant to drag them in either with his understandably defensive comment.

1up is the best we've got in the realm of gaming journalism - Denis is the one that used that as his platform...

 

[Giganticus]

As much as you guys think Dyack got "pwned", just wait until there's another thread where, say, John Carmack says something negative about a console platform or the PC. Then watch as a bunch of nerds shit all over some of the most respected people in the business with their "knowledge" and "I am an expert" posts.

As for being the worst, I disagree. There's far worse out there. This is one of the few gaming forums that doesn't allow viral marketers. Occasionally you'll get an interesting discussion from people who've experienced games differently and want to compare thoughts. The only reason why I would consider NeoGAF crappy in any way compared to other gaming forums is that a good chunk of the people here actually think they know anything at all or have any sort of special opinion just because the occasional developer or press member posts here and they, for some reason, think they are equal. And then they post.

For a good example, go to the nVidia real time raytracing demo from a few days ago, I can't remember if it was in OT or Gaming. Consider that this is a landmark moment in technological advancement: "Hey this looks pretty shitty GT5 looks a lot better goddamn where's the anti-aliasing nvidia really don't know anything at all I mean Project Gotham looks better than this so what's the point seriously what's wrong with these lazy developers I'd rather have smoke and mirrors if it looks better than this this is pointless why aren't nvidia fixing their graphics cards instead of doing this I'm pretty sure current gaming consoles are more powerful than these 4 Quaddro's and can produce graphics better than this here let me post 50 GT5 screenshots while the point sails 500 feet above my retarded head".

It's a shame really. Maybe NeoGAF should start initiating a more strict policy with regards to FUD in threads.

 

[Branduil]

Thinking about it more, I don't disagree that Mr. Dyack should have been banned. But, I think he actually should have been banned months ago, before any of this drama got out of hand. Instead of banning him, his baiting was responded to with more baiting by the mods, which just fueled the drama. If he had been banned instead, like a normal user, he would have either gone off the rails then and got perma'd, or there's a small chance he would have started behaving himself.

 

[dude]

I don't get people telling GAF to grow up...
I mean, this is OUR forum, when developers come here they are part of the community, not some almighty gods because they created some game, they're like any other poster here... When they go around acting like the whole forum should worship their posts, with respect and admiration unlike in any other thread, they should be kicked out of here as fast as possible.
We shouldn't "grow up" and change our memes, one word posts, bashing, bets or the rest of our fun for the developers, if they want to be a part of all that they can, but nothing gives them the right to be above that. Like Jaffe said, this is not some PR tool, this is a community they could be a part of.

 

[gnarkill bill]

So I guess the "best forum" according to Mr Dyack is Teamxbox. There is alot of praise going on over there...its pretty interesting.

 

[The Hermit]

OH SHIT

DYACK IS PERMABANNED!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/member.php?u=8555

:lol

How can you tell he´s permabanned? Because of this:

Denis Dyack has no contact information.

?

 

[cvxfreak]

Great response, EviLore. Well said.

 

[sajj316]

the right thing to do! Other forums like N4G are going nuts as well on this topic. You do not bite the hands of the master after you've been fed. He wanted the publicity and now he got it!

 

[wolfmat]

As much as you guys think Dyack got "pwned", just wait until there's another thread where, say, John Carmack says something negative about a console platform or the PC. Then watch as a bunch of nerds shit all over some of the most respected people in the business with their "knowledge" and "I am an expert" posts.

Carmack has been taken seriously every time he did something like this.

He's not shitting on random people.

He's more informed than we will ever be, and everyone can see that.

Carmack will always be respected.

Dyack basically shat where he ate. I don't care about it, but that's how it went from the viewpoint of an innocent bystander. Of course he gets a metaphorical punch in the face for this.

The result is unsatisfactory for both sides (at least I see it like that), but looking back at how it went down, both sides were going for the groins; the thing is while GAF is a bunch of gamers overreacting, Denis is someone representing a business. He should have backed off some time ago because there's no gain in this, and I'm sure he is fully aware of that.

 

[xS1TH L0RDx]

He brought it on himself.

Respectfully disagree. Say what you will about the man's opinions, but I've seen threads on here that say some pretty horrible shit about him. That's fine if you (not YOU personally... hopefully you know what i mean) disagree with the guy, but resorting to personal attacks and acting like a 3rd grade bully is unnecessary. There's been posts in several Too Human threads that feature users who've negatively commented on weight, intelligence, there's even been posts that insult his "trophy wife"! Even in this thread's very OP, he's called a monster, a sore, and is likened to someone else in the industry who's looked at with great disdain!

Did Denis Dyack pee in your Wheaties this morning?

Did he sleep with your girlfriend in high school?

No? Then where the fuck does this passionate, overblown hatred come from? I get that the vast majority of GAF doesn't like the game, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. People like what they like, and dislike what they dislike. I even get that the vast majority of GAF disagrees with several, if not ALL of Dyack's opinions. People will think what they will, and that's more than fine as well. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. But what I don't get is why mods and forum posters alike feel the need to insult him with such rage as to drag him through the mud.

 

[EviLore]

As much as you guys think Dyack got "pwned", just wait until there's another thread where, say, John Carmack says something negative about a console platform or the PC. Then watch as a bunch of nerds shit all over some of the most respected people in the business with their "knowledge" and "I am an expert" posts.

It's tough, because a lot of devs making public statements about consoles or pc tech these days definitely have agendas, and it can be hard to separate hype from informed, expert opinion. It was easy to lump someone like Carmack or Newell in with that side when they made harsh statements about the PS3 or multicore processors or whatever, especially when the massive levels of hype early in this console cycle had almost everyone entranced. With a few more years now, and some perspective along with it, I think it's plain to see that they were being totally honest, but it was a lot harder to discern back then.

For a good example, go to the nVidia real time raytracing demo from a few days ago, I can't remember if it was in OT or Gaming. Consider that this is a landmark moment in technological advancement: "Hey this looks pretty shitty GT5 looks a lot better goddamn where's the anti-aliasing nvidia really don't know anything at all I mean Project Gotham looks better than this so what's the point seriously what's wrong with these lazy developers I'd rather have smoke and mirrors if it looks better than this this is pointless why aren't nvidia fixing their graphics cards instead of doing this I'm pretty sure current gaming consoles are more powerful than these 4 Quaddro's and can produce graphics better than this here let me post 50 GT5 screenshots while the point sails 500 feet above my retarded head".

I could feel my brain melting in that thread. Fortunately some voices of reason stepped up after a while.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

The sin of your gimmicky Eternal Darkness and its slaughter of Lovecraft and legitimate influenced works is not one I personally take lightly, sir!

Personal feelings aside, ED is still the best use of Cthulhu mythos this decade.

Anyone seen the trailer for the new Cthulhu movie?

GOD IT'S AWFUL.

No? Then where the fuck does this passionate, overblown hatred come from? I get that the vast majority of GAF doesn't like the game, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. People like what they like, and dislike what they dislike. I even get that the vast majority of GAF disagrees with several, if not ALL of Dyack's opinions. People will think what they will, and that's more than fine as well. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. But what I don't get is why mods and forum posters alike feel the need to insult him with such rage as to drag him through the mud.

His criticism was largely correct. Game forums are largely full of kids ready at the helm with kneejerk reactions only interested in blowing things out of proportion.

I do not exclude myself from this criticism. I mean, shit, I nearly break a god damn hip typing up some bullshit when something rubs me the wrong way.

 

[JimtotheHum]

so I was wondering since the towns of St. Catharines and Niagra are depending so much on the success of Too Human,

is there a way to support these towns without having to actually buy Too Human?

lets just cut out the middle man!

someone start a "Save St. Catharines and Niagra without having to buy Too Human" petition-

maybe there is a link on their websites that we can use to send money to...

http://www.stcatharines.ca/index.asp

http://www.city.niagarafalls.on.ca/

:lol

 

[WTFing]

These guys are accustomed to reviewers licking their ass all day long. EviLore you are awesome, you and this forum. Never change.