Most posters have questioned the legitimacy of the news. But the discussion going on now is about the hypothetical situation where all of this is really true. It is not a vendetta against MS in any shape or form, not yet at least (also, MS gets the least flak on this forum).
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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
Goldrusher
Member
If always-online and cd-keys are so awesome, where are the PC ports of Crackdown, Forza, Project Gotham, Gears and Halo?
Technically if the console is always on, they do not have to block used games. They could just ask the second owner to pay a fee in order to activate the game on their end. This is more likely what is going to happen than "You are the second owner of this game, you are not allowed to play it. Die."
Some of this fee will go to the console manufacturer, some will go to the publisher, and finally whatever is left will go to the dev. I expect the amount you have to pay decline at consistent rate: <6 months after release full price, <1yr $50, <2yr $30, <3yr $15, <4yr $10, <5yr $5. Those prices would the cost for a second user to access the game (on top of whatever you payed to get the used copy). It is not pretty but it is the future we are facing.
This will probably reduce used games sales and used games prices (consumers will not go the used route if it becomes less cost efficient than new). This will also MURDER Gamestop's stock. The worst part is we will likely still see day 1 DLC, season passes, and other stupid shit on top of this.
As someone said below, to solve the "Going over to a friends house" problem, if you sign in, you can use the disc you bought on another console. This is a logical solution.
Some of this fee will go to the console manufacturer, some will go to the publisher, and finally whatever is left will go to the dev. I expect the amount you have to pay decline at consistent rate: <6 months after release full price, <1yr $50, <2yr $30, <3yr $15, <4yr $10, <5yr $5. Those prices would the cost for a second user to access the game (on top of whatever you payed to get the used copy). It is not pretty but it is the future we are facing.
This will probably reduce used games sales and used games prices (consumers will not go the used route if it becomes less cost efficient than new). This will also MURDER Gamestop's stock. The worst part is we will likely still see day 1 DLC, season passes, and other stupid shit on top of this.
As someone said below, to solve the "Going over to a friends house" problem, if you sign in, you can use the disc you bought on another console. This is a logical solution.
Aquamarine
Member
A consumer should always fight for pro-consumer attitudes and practices.
gutter_trash
Banned
when I was a teen, we used to bring our games to our friends's housees and so on.
I owned my games, my friends owned theirs but eh we brought our favorite games over when we want to play 2 player games and so on.
how do you think that the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat craze caught on outside of arcade in homes before online?
bad bad move MS
I owned my games, my friends owned theirs but eh we brought our favorite games over when we want to play 2 player games and so on.
how do you think that the Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat craze caught on outside of arcade in homes before online?
bad bad move MS
Backfoggen
Banned
Welcome to next-gen bullshit.
SolidusDave
Member
No second hand games won't change anything for me, so I'm fine with it considering that's how it has been on PC for ages now. *shrugs*
Actually, it might be even better for me because then they get added to your account as well. I hate that I might not have the option to play disc PS3 game x on a future, legal PS3 emulator because there might be no disc drive anymore etc.
HOWEVER
- You should be able to use them on any console with your account AND you should be able to use them on a few consoles with any account as long as the buyers account was logged in once. (So basically the system for PSN games). That way friends can still borrow the game and even play on their accounts.
- Forcing online for (one-time) code/account activations etc. is fine, but it should not be like that you can't play your own games if you are offline! Especially as we saw this with certain Capcom PSN games that won't even work during PSN maintenance...
- Preferably, buying one disc version should also unlock the same game for other platforms like it was for Portal 2 and Vita games.
- A very cool option would be to transfer individual games to other accounts. Would leave an option to sell games privately but still destroy the mass second-hand market like Gamestop. This is just wishful thinking though.
- Codes are fine I guess, but technically it should be possible to have the code embed on the BD Java part, no? Or at least let the Kinect/PSEye cameras scan the codes so I don't have the hassle with it.
Actually, it might be even better for me because then they get added to your account as well. I hate that I might not have the option to play disc PS3 game x on a future, legal PS3 emulator because there might be no disc drive anymore etc.
HOWEVER
- You should be able to use them on any console with your account AND you should be able to use them on a few consoles with any account as long as the buyers account was logged in once. (So basically the system for PSN games). That way friends can still borrow the game and even play on their accounts.
- Forcing online for (one-time) code/account activations etc. is fine, but it should not be like that you can't play your own games if you are offline! Especially as we saw this with certain Capcom PSN games that won't even work during PSN maintenance...
- Preferably, buying one disc version should also unlock the same game for other platforms like it was for Portal 2 and Vita games.
- A very cool option would be to transfer individual games to other accounts. Would leave an option to sell games privately but still destroy the mass second-hand market like Gamestop. This is just wishful thinking though.
- Codes are fine I guess, but technically it should be possible to have the code embed on the BD Java part, no? Or at least let the Kinect/PSEye cameras scan the codes so I don't have the hassle with it.
It isn't Sony or Microsoft that is rooting for this, it's the publishers. And the rumours that PS4 is anti-used are much, much older.
BoboBrazil
Member
Anyone surprised by this? Microsoft is ran by executives now that don't give a shit about the end user and only care about making as much money as possible. Just look at Windows 8 as an example of the new Microsoft. The people that were there during the Xbox and 360 launches are long gone.
cookie-monster
Member
also to add to my previous post, it will happen on both consoles because it's a classic case of the Prisoner's Dilemma. The first corporation to implement it gets the option of price gouging the other one, should they so choose.
AnonymousTipster
Neo Member
I can't (or maybe just really really don't want to) believe the always-online bit. I'm sure that things like activation codes for multiplayer modes and what not will be almost ubiquitous for PS4/x720 games, but demanding console players to always be online for their console to work seems like a pretty huge blunder. As does one disc being tied to only one console.
Didn't everyone already realize that this sort of DRM only hurts, never helps?
Didn't everyone already realize that this sort of DRM only hurts, never helps?
Cramoss
Member
People still care about those things?
Mr. Luchador
Member
I think that's the fear for me. That if these things are getting locked to an account will they get carried on beyond the console they were purchased for? Will they supported in 6-10 years time when the 'next gen' is out? Will the games I have my PSN/XBL accounts transfer over to the current next gen? Or am I just wasting money? I like to 'collect' games as much as play them. I'm odd.
How about multiple Live accounts on the same system. I buy a game, register it with my Live account, does this mean my son can't play it? I would imagine not, that would be retarded beyond belief. So is it registered under all our accounts? Can I take it to a friend's house, log in with my account and play it, and a week later, have my son do the same thing? Who's account is it registered under?
There are so many questions about this that make no sense. But sadly, I can still see it happening.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Which would more or less prove that used games weren't hurting their revenues.
I pray to God, Zeus, Baby Jesus, Allah, Elohim, Ishvara, Q, The Atlantians, Timelords, Vorlons, the Combine, the Forerunners and the Lords of Kobol that Sony wins this generation.
MS and Nintendo are on some bullshit right now.
You forgot that Sony also has a game registration patent, right?
Some of you need to slow your roll on this 'Sony better win' or 'Sony already won' shit.
So that you'll be stuck with... no second hand sales?
The reaction here is mind numbing
None of these bullshit rumors help consumers. It's all for the benefit of these mega corporations.
You can always download your gamertag on any console and play the game. Or share gamertags.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Knowing the direction the industry is heading in, they will probably even try to limit demos in some way. Yeah, gaming has always been expensive, but you could get your expensive games and trade them in for relatively less expensive games at least. Also, you can trade games with you friends and try their games out. Not anymore. Also, you could buy the games used online or whatever if they were too expensive. People complained about how expensive games are this generation with many options available. What is going to happen if all that is taken away and games cost more? I feel bad for the companies, I'll just say that since casual gamers are already usually cheap. This is just opening the doors to something much worst and bigger.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Totally different situation unless all games were multiplayer only.
We'll agree to disagree. I think it will hurt much more than it will help.
The "always online" thing is almost certainly false. There is no reason for it.
Most likely it will function just like XBLA games do today. You need an online connection the first time to activate a game. Thereafter it is playable with or without an Internet connection on the activated console, or with an Internet connection (and the activated gamertag) on other consoles.
And codes should be embedded on disc, so the "activation" process should not require any work on the user's part.
Most likely it will function just like XBLA games do today. You need an online connection the first time to activate a game. Thereafter it is playable with or without an Internet connection on the activated console, or with an Internet connection (and the activated gamertag) on other consoles.
And codes should be embedded on disc, so the "activation" process should not require any work on the user's part.
jetsetfluken
Member
I've mentioned that this is probably nothing to do with increasing their Profile system security and savedata security, and more to do with...like you said, anti-consumer practice. But here's hoping some good comes out of it in terms of upping their game in those areas.
It's a serious issue and MS needs to constantly "clean up" messes caused by their own holes they created with the Xbox 360...which is admittedly, the "first attempt" at a fully online-centered console. If they're not, and it's exploited again, I'm going to PS4 as first priority...unless that trophy system is manipulated too. I'll weigh the lesser of the two evils if both are comprimised, just as I've done this gen. Look at this this way: We're playing 80% multi-platform games, so why not choose the one that doesn't have their "checklist system" manipulated, raped and maimed?
Next gen these things need to be refined so the end user can't toy around. They need to up their game next generation in this regard big time.
Again, this is -not- just to do with achievement manipulation. Manipulation of many elements as a whole that -can- be fixed with things like the "online savedata" I detailed in my previous posts.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
Well I'm out. Your move to NOT fuck up, Sony if this true.
vincent vega
Member
it seems like these new implementations would complicate the EVO tournaments
That's the issue, isn't it. I mean, if I buy a game, are they saying I'm not allowed to buy it so my family can play it? So basically, are we really going to regulate this - so a purchase = ONE person per game.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Legitimate or not, I can't believe so many people are fine or defending these decisions. Next, we will have to pay per minute to use our consoles and people will just accept it.
Backfoggen
Banned
Yep, at least on PC I can just take my physical copies wherever and just use them offline. Wait..
OmnipotentO
Member
NOPE
Do not want. This is a total deal-breaker for me if true.
Do not want. This is a total deal-breaker for me if true.
Nothing about achievements and trophies warrants the title of "serious issue"
EdwardTivrusky
Member
Depends on whether it's the second hand sales issue or the always online issue he has the most problem with really.
Always online is probably BS: see XBLA and how it currently works
Pathetic attempt at damage control.
I remember I think it was the Giant Bomb guys discussing if anyone had the balls for this coming generation to go online required and from this article it seems like Microsoft is. This could be a huge mistake. I think for most people it won't be a problem but you are still cutting out part of the market.
The no second hand games is also crazy. Not surprising but just kind of crazy. If this is true I wonder if Sony has the stuff in place to match them and therefore kill used games. If I was GameStop I would be real worried about this coming generation, a move more towards digital distribution and a possibility of no used games.
The no second hand games is also crazy. Not surprising but just kind of crazy. If this is true I wonder if Sony has the stuff in place to match them and therefore kill used games. If I was GameStop I would be real worried about this coming generation, a move more towards digital distribution and a possibility of no used games.
I think MS is just crazy enough to go through with this.
I mean MS has somehow convinced gamers to pay for a service they receive for free everywhere else, they're probably confident that gamers will take this laying down(and I have no doubt they will).
About the always online bullcrap, over 10 million people bought Diablo 3 despite it being always online and anti consumer, the precedence has already been set.
If Sony pulls this crap too...well looks like I may skip the next gen train altogether, or atleast until Nintendo hops on(that's if they don't pull the same shit with their next console). My friends and I always bring our games over to each other's places for get togethers and what not, this would mean an end to that.
I mean MS has somehow convinced gamers to pay for a service they receive for free everywhere else, they're probably confident that gamers will take this laying down(and I have no doubt they will).
About the always online bullcrap, over 10 million people bought Diablo 3 despite it being always online and anti consumer, the precedence has already been set.
If Sony pulls this crap too...well looks like I may skip the next gen train altogether, or atleast until Nintendo hops on(that's if they don't pull the same shit with their next console). My friends and I always bring our games over to each other's places for get togethers and what not, this would mean an end to that.
Duxxy3
Member
Don't really see how. There's no reason to change from the standard PS3 for now.
Nothing points to always online for PS4, nor have there been rumors of PS4 implementing no-used games. There has been a patent application for technology by Sony, but other than that, nothing.