• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect

T

Tyrone_Biggums

Banned
plutoknight said:
Considering how behind America is in Broadband deployment, I'd say those people in rural markets might just miss this console generation :p
Click to expand...

No doubt the US has a long way to go in developing the net infrastructure. My wish is the government develops some kind of mandate that requires high speed access, speed increases across the board, and hopefully subsidizes these developments so that we can catch up to other countries. The world's going digital and there's no reason the US can't help lead the way.
 
W

whitehawk

Banned
I'd also like to mention that internet is not reliable. Internet can go down. Mine does every once in a while. Would suck if I couldn't play games because the internet is borked.
 
J

jetsetfluken

Member
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.
But I have a feeling it won't help protect against manipulation of that and only cause DRM-related things.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. Also, somehow, your Profile wouldn't be able to be backed up locally/transferred to PC. It would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
God fucking damnit. I'm really not holding out hopw that Sony isn't going to follow suit. If they do then I don't think I can deal with it.

I don't that much about used games but the only other option is to just wait until it's super cheap and if there isn't a used games market they will keep the price higher for a long fucking time.
 
D

Dreaver

Member
Before the rumors from Orbis/Durango was starting I was 100% in the Microsoft camp (I have both a X360 and PS3 though). Now the more rumors are out the more I'm leaning towards PS3.. ugh. I seriously doubt this will happen though (always on).

If it IS true, and Sony releases a decent controller I'll probably get a PS4 instead of the new Xbox.
 
E

Earendil

Member
pixlexic said:
You guys talking about carrying your consoles ... I am fairly positive the game will be tied to an account and not a console. Just log in on your friends Durango.
Click to expand...

What if my friend has a game I want to borrow. Lots of people swap games all the time. This would kill that.
 
J

Joe Shlabotnik

Banned
TheExorzist said:
Please, today it's easier than ever to know in advance if you'll like a game or not. There are videos, demos, reviews....

And please let's not forget that gaming was always an expensive hobby, so I don't really get that "some people don't have a lot of money" argument. It doesn't make any sense at all.
Click to expand...

Two things: The amount of money required to flow into the games industry just to keep it stable these days is far greater than it was in previous decades. In short, we have to buy a shit-ton of games if we want the same publishers to keep publishing.

Secondly, "games are cheaper today than ever" is reductive to the point of meaninglessness. Yes, MSRP for a lot of games in the 90s were $70 or more. But we weren't expected to buy as many games! And far more things are competing for our dollars now. The same demographics most likely to buy video games are also paying a cell phone bill every month, a not-insignificant number of which are likely $80 or more. Gas has soared well past the inflation rate since the 90s. Wages are flat since the 90s. Yes, games are "cheaper" but there is less money available to buy them.
 
F

Foffy

Banned
GlamFM said:
I said it before an I´ll say it again.


Nobody had a problem when you sold your games to your friends or on eBay.


It became a problem when Gamestop made their core business out of it. Walk into a Gamestop and try to buy a new game today - it´s almost impossible!

They almost wont let you!

Gamestop is to blame for this and no one else.


Don´t contribute to a RIP (insert dead dev) thread and defend used games.


I expect 10€ activation keys and I think it´s fair and OK.
Click to expand...

I for one never minded online passes as a fee to combat used sales. I figure if a consumer is going down the route of a used game to purchase, they're already getting it at a cheaper price, so if they want to play online they have to pay a little more, hopefully still less than what it would cost new. My issue with online passes is if/when they become account based. I have a brother, and we sometimes overlap the games we play. Are companies really going to be fucking crazy enough to expect me and him to buy two separate copies of each game? That's my fear.

BearPawB said:
As a PC gamer I am used to this.
But all it will mean is even more piracy.
Click to expand...

If this is a side effect, I can't even be mad at it. I find it hard to justify piracy at all, but when you take the options away from a consumer, you do make piracy a stronger alternative.
 
P

plutoknight

Member
jetsetfluken said:
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. it would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
Click to expand...

And so those of us who don't care about achievements get punished?
 
R

richiek

steals Justin Bieber DVDs
Chulonyc said:
Best believe if Microsoft is moving forward with this its because the software companies assured Micro that Sony was on board as well. They wont put themselves out to dry like that.
Click to expand...

Is it wrong for me to wish for another video game crash if both MS and Sony adopt this business model?
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Pociask said:
I'd add in, it's apparent that a lot of people who trade in games really only value their new games at about $20-30 - they pay the initial $60, but only on the expectation that they'll get back $30-$40 of that. Then you have price sensitive consumers, who buy new, but wait for a price drop. Then again, you have price sensitive consumers who buy used. The pool of people who are willing to buy a brand new $60 release, and then let it sit pristine on their bookshelves (presumably the same people that buy collector/special editions) is very small compared to people who just aren't willing to consistently pay 60 bucks for ~8-12 hours of entertainment.

The obvious lesson from this is that a lot of games are overpriced and need to come down to $20-$30. The lesson the publishers took is fuck price sensitive consumers, we're entitled to $60 and we'll force everyone to give us that much.
Click to expand...

Can you please show me the data that backs this up? Where the market of people who buy new games and don't resell is "very small".

Pretty sure you have no data to back that up.
 
P

Pociask

Member
TheExorzist said:
Please, today it's easier than ever to know in advance if you'll like a game or not. There are videos, demos, reviews....

And please let's not forget that gaming was always an expensive hobby, so I don't really get that "some people don't have a lot of money" argument. It doesn't make any sense at all.
Click to expand...

I don't know why you "don't get" the some people don't have a lot of money argument.

How can I break this down... hmmm... some people... do not... have... a lot... of money?

BLS breaks down spending by "Consumer units" which can include single adults, couples, and families. The average spending per consumer unit in America on entertainment was about $2,600, or a little more than $216 a month. If you're in a family of four, that's 50 bucks per person per month for ALL entertainment spending. And that's on a mean average, not a median. Broken down by quintile, 60% of Americans spend 2100 a year on entertainment - 40% spend $1600 a year, and 1 out of 5 consumer units spends less than a $1000 a month on entertainment. If you have $100 a month for entertainment for a family of 4, or even $200, it's hard to justify a $60 video game.
 
S

scar tissue

Banned
Hellsing321 said:
Hahahahahaha If Sony implements its bullshit second hand game patent I may be skipping next gen entirely.
Click to expand...

You'll probably have to skip all the consoles from now on if that happens.
Unless the backlash is severe, which it won't be - consumers gobble up any kind of shit as long as they get their shootbang, Sony/MS will keep it for the generations to come, and Nintendo may very well adopt it too.
 
D

Derrick01

Banned
quickwhips said:
HAHA Microsoft R DOOMED! Am I don't it right? Seriously this is the same on pcs so don't try to act like it isn't. If xbox is doing this then I'm sure PS is as well. I'm sure developers have let them know either do it or we go exclusive to the console that does....it would make alot of sense. At least at the end of the day this might kill gamestop and stop preorder bonuses :)
JK this probably will suck but I don't think its true.
Click to expand...

It is exactly like PC. But the big question is will I be getting Steam/Amazon/GMG quality deals on Live and PSN? Recent history says no, especially if this happens and publishers get even more control.

Although the last Sony sale had promising prospects for the future with the deals that were in place. The problem is all the really good deals were on Sony's own games ($10 LBP Karting, $5 total for Ratchet and Jak HD) , so it shows that most 3rd party publishers are still resisting this.
 
K

Kifimbo

Member
jetsetfluken said:
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. it would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
Click to expand...

W..h.at? Oh, you're joking.
 
C

CambriaRising

Member
jetsetfluken said:
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. it would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
Click to expand...

Yeah they should totay screw everyone so that someone's e-dick points actually matter.
 
M

Minions

Member
jetsetfluken said:
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. it would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it is to curb cheating as much as it is to promote their "Vision" for the console. They are trying to make the xbox a all in one console. Use it as a set top box/DVR, use it as a PC, use it as a gaming console. The more they "require" always online, the more gold subscriptions they can get. Right now most of their consoles remain offline, which means they are not enticed into purchasing a gold sub. Once they are online, it becomes a lot easier to sell them a gold sub.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Corto said:
That's completely ignoring the importance on the PC of Steam, GOG.com, and direct access to indie developers stores. Windows 8 could be a hint going towards a walled garden ecosystem with one gate keeper instead of the free environment we have now, but until then, PC remains the most open platform for gaming.
Click to expand...
Who cares if it's important and works for indies if the third parties who make the blockbuster titles don't care? I'm not arguing PC isn't the most open platform; I think it will always be. But you can't ignore the fact that this will only encourage PC multiplat titles to take the same route as their console brethren.

Holy Crap said:
You make it seem as thought DIII is a normal occurrence in PC gaming; unless Steam is too terribly intrusive on you, DRM as a whole is a fucking non-issue
Click to expand...
DIII isn't the only example, but look at the numbers it did. It shows that the model works for AAA titles, because as much as we argue about rights and shit on forums, people will still buy into it.

And DRM is NOT a non-issue when everytime Ubi puts something out on PC with draconian DRM, gamers pull out their pitchforks. And it's not a non-issue when publishers make announcements just to mention their game has no DRM, which puts some gamers on their knees and makes them praise a publisher for not using DRM. These wouldn't be cases if it was a non-issue.
 
C

Camp Lo

Banned
jetsetfluken said:
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.
But I have a feeling it won't help protect against manipulation of that and only cause DRM-related things.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. Also, somehow, your Profile wouldn't be able to be backed up locally/transferred to PC. It would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
Click to expand...

LOL GODDAMN!
 
F

FunnyBunny

Member
Tyrone_Biggums said:
People keep using the statistics that people offline won't be able to take advantage of the new console. This system is prepping for the future. Will these consumers lack of connectivity online increase or decrease in the coming years? They might not be a part of first adopters, but the likelihood that they continue to lack internet access in the future decreases, not increases. At some point, the majority of consumers will be online, all the time.
Click to expand...

I agree with this in principle.

That said, I had access to high-speed internet in 2001 (my first apartment). Despite 12 years of technological advancement, a third of Americans still to not have high-speed internet. That is tens-of-millions of people.

Adoption will continue to grow. But I do not believe it will be at the rate some people on this board believe, and while I fully expect Microsoft (and Sony) to eventually push an online-only console in the future, I do not believe the time is now.

Both companies desperately need customers.
 
V

Version 3.0

Member
Kurdel said:
I can understand that people with less money and data caps will get fucked over this.
Click to expand...

It has absolutely nothing to do with money or data caps. I spend a ridiculous amount of money on games. Money is no object. I have no data cap that I know of. Not an issue.

The issue is, I want to own what I buy (and don't even get me started on EULA BS). I want to loan games to my friends if I choose. I want my son to use my games on his console in his room - why in the world should we have to buy two?

This has nothing to do with digital and everything to do with DRM. For physical products, this is clearly, 100% illegal. No one can sell you a chair, or shoes, or a TV and then dictate what you may or may not do with it. Only in the shitty world of software have the lawyers found a grey area to circumvent the law and reasonable, common sense rights. And I won't stand for it.
 
E

EdibleExplosives

Member
jetsetfluken said:
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.
But I have a feeling it won't help protect against manipulation of that and only cause DRM-related things.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. Also, somehow, your Profile wouldn't be able to be backed up locally/transferred to PC. It would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
Click to expand...

I didn't know anyone actually gave a fuck about gamerscore anymore. Although, my sarcasm detection might be fucked.
 
B

btkadams

Member
Rad- said:
Never understood why people are so against this. Always online is not a problem whatsoever in this day and age. I don't think my Internet connection has gone off in like 2 years. No second-hand games, well Steam has been doing it for years.
Click to expand...

PSN hack.


you've really never had your internet go down?
 
T

TheJollyCorner

Member
I would be really surprised if MS follows through with this. It just seems like the backlash from consumers would be too significant...


If Sony comes out on the 20th, confirms the PS4 does not have to be online constantly and does not restrict second-hand games, I have to believe MS will follow suit and change any plans they have contrary to that.


Crazy.
 
P

Pociask

Member
NervousXtian said:
Can you please show me the data that backs this up? Where the market of people who buy new games and don't resell is "very small".

Pretty sure you have no data to back that up.
Click to expand...

Walk into a video game store a week after a major game releases. See the many traded in copies.

Or, read all the publishers crying like babies about how used games are killing them.

Of course I don't have exact data, but you wouldn't see either of those things if the majority of gamers kept their games. Gamestop wouldn't be a viable business, for that matter.

Would it be better if I said small, instead of very small? Or minority?
 
D

Delusibeta

Banned
jetsetfluken said:
Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.
But I have a feeling it won't help protect against manipulation of that and only cause DRM-related things.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. Also, somehow, your Profile wouldn't be able to be backed up locally/transferred to PC. It would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.
Click to expand...

If there's one thing we learned from Diablo 3, it's that always-online DRM does nothing to prevent cheating.
 
S

SaggyMonkey

Member
Bobby Kotick has always supported the second-hand game market.

I'm curious to see what the other implications are. Maybe they've seen what can happen on all of these Steam sales and will let publishers change their prices at will. I hardly buy used modern games anyway (different story when you're looking for old genesis games or whatever), but if suddenly consoles had these Steam-like bottom-out sales or went for an on-or-off rate like cable tv channels it might not be so bad.
 
G

GayForMaster

Banned
Unlike Nintendo, Microsoft is continuing to invest heavily in motion-control interfaces, and a new, more reliably responsive Kinect will also ship alongside the next Xbox. Sony’s next-generation console camera system is said to have a similar set of features, and is expected to be discussed at the company’s PlayStation event on February 20.
Click to expand...

Well... microsoft can go fuck themselves. Maybe I'll invest in a Wii U for next gen.
 
T

Tyrone_Biggums

Banned
Derrick01 said:
It is exactly like PC. But the big question is will I be getting Steam/Amazon/GMG quality deals on Live and PSN? Recent history says no, especially if this happens and publishers get even more control.

Although the last Sony sale had promising prospects for the future with the deals that were in place. The problem is all the really good deals were on Sony's own games ($10 LBP Karting, $5 total for Ratchet and Jak HD) , so it shows that most 3rd party publishers are still resisting this.
Click to expand...

If the new consoles curb piracy and second hand sales, I would be surprised if we didn't see more sales for games, especially in the digital distribution front. Developers and publishes lose less money through the second hand market and are more willing to sale at a reduced cost. Just my opinion.
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
alr1ght said:
Explain XBLA and PSN pricing. Not even comparable to Steam and they have no retail/used competition.
Click to expand...

XBLA is an afterthought same with games on demand

Afaik developers can't change prices on a dime for sales or anything

It wasn't built as a primary marketplace

It still has a lot of room to grow in that regard
 
T

Tymerend

Member
Always online would also be a deal breaker for me for consoles, if the consoles have to be online for every single game. At least with PC games, if my online crashes, I have a number of games I can play offline.
 
A

alphaNoid

Banned
So Many Bullets said:
Fuck this anti-consumer bullshit. Gamers continue to be taken advantage of.
Click to expand...

Gaming isn't a human right, its a voluntary hobby you participate in. Companies do not owe you anything and nobody is taking advantage of you.

Tyrone_Biggums said:
If the new consoles curb piracy and second hand sales, I would be surprised if we didn't see more sales for games, especially in the digital distribution front. Developers and publishes lose less money through the second hand market and are more willing to sale at a reduced cost. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Agree
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Jez Corden: Xbox next-gen console hardware has now passed the early pitch stage
News Rumor Hardware 2 3 4
174
9K
StreetsofBeige replied
[Tom Warren] The next Xbox is going to be very different
2 3 4
169
11K
onQ123 replied
Xbox Series generation helped make $80.8 billion for Microsoft
2 3 4
166
8K
Woopah replied
Phillip Wesley Spencer The 3rd: "Xbox Series X|S and PlayStation 5 are too similar"..."I want us to innovate and make hardware the differentiator."
News 2 3
135
7K
Danteyke223 replied
  • Poll
CBR: Its the End of an Era for PlayStation and Xbox
Opinion Poll Hardware 2 3 4
157
10K
ArtHands replied
Top Bottom