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[ThatStupidLion]

Ya know if it was 4 years aho id care more about the used games things - games prices drop so fast that its not an issue as much to me. What pisses me off is the always online thing... Worked out great for diablo 3 amirite?

Now i kno theres rumors of sony exploring anti used game measures, but i dont think its relevant to always online. That option is much more appealing.

Either way the game industry is changing moreso than ever- and i for one do not like it

 

[Foffy]

Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.
But I have a feeling it won't help protect against manipulation of that and only cause DRM-related things.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. Also, somehow, your Profile wouldn't be able to be backed up locally/transferred to PC. It would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.

People still give a shit about such insignificant things to games? Fuck, one of the things I hate about PS3 and Vita is I can't turn off the goddamned trophy blips.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

This has almost nothing to do with the situation. An online pass does not prevent someone from playing the game.

Actually, it does, kinda. I bought MLB The Show over in the States, as it isn't released in the UK. Offline worked fine, but code wouldn't register as it was 'region locked', so I got none of the online benefits such as Live Roster Updates, or online play. Nowhere did it say the game was 'region locked'.

 

[Diablohead]

There is always a time where I have my consoles offline in the year, either taking it to someones house, on holiday for a week or two out in the countryside, my ISP likes to cock up now and again, and what about the times where XBL goes down for a few hours randomly? would that now effect your game and log you off?

Best not to jump to conclusions until E3 but I do think that something like this will appear, some kind of online lock for new games.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Why would EDGE do that though?

Because their source might have been fed this information, and having a trusted source meant they got the drop on the other outlets.

Even if the information is false.

 

[BearPawB]

I've had my xbox connected to the internet for every second of its life

 

[Projectjustice]

Gaming isn't a human right, its a voluntary hobby you participate in. Companies do not owe you anything. Nobody is taking advantage of you.

Thank you. Gamers are so delusional these days.

 

[KungFucius]

One thing that could work is a cheap $5 re-activation fee for 2nd hand. This will allow publishers to continue to see revenue in the used market and for people to sell games. It will just shift prices in 1 direction. The only problem I see with this is that these assholes are too anti-customer to allow the possibility of the game staying activated on more than one system and thus would require de-activation, and this could lead to problems.

I am not willing to buy a console where I cannot sell games I don't like. I never keep games anyway. What is the point if I never touch them after a first playthrough?

 

[TCRS]

yeah yeah rumours, but fuck this shit if true.

 

[Jarlaxle]

What if my friend has a game I want to borrow. Lots of people swap games all the time. This would kill that.

This is what I do. I don't buy used games, but I do swap with friends enough that this would be troubling.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

Odd how so many are ready believe any and every negative rumour about MS without question no matter how unlikely it may be.

 

[Nokagi]

Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. it would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.

Are you really trying to justify this anti consumer bullshit by using achievements? Really?

 

[apana]

Best believe if Microsoft is moving forward with this its because the software companies assured Micro that Sony was on board as well. They wont put themselves out to dry like that.

Wouldn't that be illegal? My gut tells me that Sony doesn't do this, they can't be that stupid. It would be such an easy opportunity for them to get a big advantage over Microsoft.

 

[Raxus]

You'd think MS would have said something by now...

 

[Quazar]

Highly doubt this. Give us some game leaks, these console leaks are just getting old.

 

[Earendil]

You have no friends. Xbox consumes all. Xbox is your friend now.

hahaha

As long as it doesn't call me Dave and tell me it can't let me do things.

 

[Seik]

Actually, if the PS4 adopts the same bullshit practices, which I really, really hope it will not, this will be where the Wii U will shine as the 'consumer friendly' console.

Kinda like the PS3 shined back then with its free online over 360's monthly payments.

 

[Herb Alpert]

You have no friends. Xbox consumes all. Xbox is your friend now.

All hail the XBox!!

 

[8byte]

So is it pretty likely that Sony will do something similar? Would really hate to see this happen

On one hand, I'm always online naturally, on the other...I don't want to get caught with interrupted service (it happens) and suddenly I have no console to play.

 

[Red Chocobo]

Looks like Sony will be the king again after all.

 

[quest]

Odd how so many are ready believe any and every negative rumour about MS without question no matter how unlikely it may be.

Must of missed the thread when the Sony anti-used game patent was made public.

 

[abadguy]

Is it wrong for me to wish for another video game crash if both MS and Sony adopt this business model?

If they were both to implement such a dumbass move then i would just buy a Wii U and stick with that. Thing is i don't believe that either or them are that foolish. Both have done some dumb shit in the past but nothing on this level. Especially the "always online" bullshit. People are so convinced that MS wasn't to appeal to the so called "casuals" yet such a move would be pretty much counter productive to that.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Thank you. Gamers are so delusional these days.

You don't want to be on his side of an argument.

 

[CTLance]

Holy crap, I gave up on reading through this on page 6 when I discovered we're already sporting 23 pages of discussion on this.

Needless to say, always-on, no-resale game consoles can suck a gargantuan donkey dong. Doesn't matter if there's an S, an M, or an N on the box - I will not buy that piece of crap for any amount of money. I'm still hoping it won't come to pass... they can't be THAT stupid, can they?

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

I've had my xbox connected to the internet for every second of its life

I haven't. Yay for us!

 

[Mononoke]

HAHA Microsoft R DOOMED! Am I don't it right? Seriously this is the same on pcs so don't try to act like it isn't. If xbox is doing this then I'm sure PS is as well. I'm sure developers have let them know either do it or we go exclusive to the console that does....it would make alot of sense. At least at the end of the day this might kill gamestop and stop preorder bonuses

Spoiler

JK this probably will suck but I don't think its true.

Steam has Offline mode..so how is it exactly the same?

I agree it's the same in that, when you buy a game on Steam or Amazon, you get ONE serial code. And once you use it, that's it. Totally. I get that. But why are people comparing the two beyond that?

Again, this is going off rumors. Who knows if I. This is true and II. If so, how MS is really going to implement this.

I think the PC platform has allowed for much more flexibility in terms of pricing, and DRM. Whereas with consoles, once they lay down the law - that's it. So all DRM will be = and standardized. That is what worries me, and why I'm not seeing the direct comparison between the two platforms.

 

[bitoriginal]

I refuse to believe this is true. They'd lose so many customers.

 

[FatalMuzza]

I hope there are some solid statistics collected by MS that this will not collapse the retail gaming ecosystem. After all, if you can't trade your game in, you may be a lot more discerning in buying as many new releases. Total obliteration of second tier games.

Further to this, the ability to trade off your game has resulted in higher quality products. The developer wanted you to keep your copy to prevent it competing against the sale of an unopened one. That insentive evaporates.

I really can't see it. The only way this is feasible if the keys can be re-purchased at a discount, like todays online passes. But this time the retailer can source it also (at a fee) and include it as part of the secondhand sale. Everybody wins.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Wouldn't that be illegal? My gut tells me that Sony doesn't do this, they can't be that stupid. It would be such an easy opportunity for them to get a big advantage over Microsoft.

Or would it? Would that advantage be more than losses from used games? Would publishers continue to support Sony if they refuse to ban used games? More MS exclusives?

Devil's advocate and all.

 

[Angry Fork]

'Always online' = ads 24/7, no thanks.

The used games issue doesn't affect me as much since most of what I get is new (and I mainly play on PC so I know what it's like not to be able to sell something back), but I get why it should stay and why it's important for consumer rights. The shit storm reaction at E3 will be interesting, especially if PS4 prohibits used games too.

 

[jetsetfluken]

And so those of us who don't care about achievements get punished?

Not at all. I've already stated in the post that people that don't care about achievements can opt to back up locally and also store it on their HDD, but achievements would be then deactivated.

Not that it matters if you don't care about achievements. For those that do, data would always be up on the cloud, never to go down (except for the rare occurrence Live is down temporarily). A SMALL setback for a clean achievement system. And if the person who cares about achievements just wants his save to keep locally, he can opt to copy the online data and transform it into an achievement-locked "offline" data. To prevent manipulation, offline data wouldn't be able to be transferred or "transformed" back into online data. Let them toy around with the achievement locked data all they want, it won't get them any achievements.

Then there's profile manipulation Microsoft desperately needs to fix. They aren't just cheating achievemnts but almost every element of the OS and profile system. MS needs to find a way that this stuff can't be brought onto Live (why haven't they already...?) or simply not allow profiles to be backed up locally and/or to PC anymore. Who -really- needs that feature anyway? Well, besides teenagers cheating the achievement system and profile and avatar system?

I pretty much figure this is the ONLY way to keep the achievement system clean. Coders and cheaters found their way into save and profile manipulation all because MS was being "nice". I hope they aren't so "nice" next gen.

 

[Camp Lo]

And DRM is NOT a non-issue when everytime Ubi puts something out on PC with draconian DRM, gamers pull out their pitchforks. And it's not a non-issue when publishers make announcements just to mention their game has no DRM, which puts some gamers on their knees and makes them praise a publisher for not using DRM. These wouldn't be cases if it was a non-issue.

Do the gamers you speak of not use Steam?
If no, do they outnumber those who do use Steam?

If not, DRM isn't an issue outside of clusterfucks like D3

 

[clem84]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the...hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

Sources with first-hand experience of Microsoft’s next generation console have told us that although the next Xbox will be absolutely committed to online functionality, games will still be made available to purchase in physical form. Next Xbox games will be manufactured on 50GB-capacity Blu-ray discs, Microsoft having conceded defeat to Sony following its ill-fated backing of the HD-DVD format. It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

I hope activation codes will be linked to your account and not your console. What happens if your console breaks? I'm never trusting another MS console at launch after the 360 RRoD fiasco.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

get sum hardcor friends braw

gaf is for newbs and casuals

I once rented King Kong just for achievements, although I was 13 at the time.

Biggest issue in the industry right now.

Damn then, I'm so glad MS are saving us from this, always online is truly the future.

 

[Rad-]

you've really never had your internet go down?

Not in the last two years, no.

Also if one of MS or Sony implements this, then I bet third parties will force the remaining one to use it as well.

 

[kaching]

Gaming isn't a human right,

True.

its a voluntary hobby you participate in.

True.

Companies do not owe you anything

True.

and nobody is taking advantage of you.

False.

 

[totowhoa]

If true I am 100% holding off on the next Xbox until I see if they handle no second-hand games appropriately (read: like Steam). Always online is kind of a stupid decision IMO, but it's the only way they could do something like this, and it wouldn't have any effect on me as all of my consoles have always been online for the most part. The only exception is my Xbox 360 because it forced you to buy that wifi attachment and pay for multiplayer which I fucking hated, so I only hook it up with an ethernet cable when I want to download an XBLA game. At least this machine will ship with wifi on board this time.

I hope activation codes will be linked to your account and not your console. What happens if your console breaks? I'm never trusting another MS console at launch after the 360 RRoD fiasco.

They will with certainty, this ain't Nintendo.

 

[Tyrone_Biggums]

Needless to say, always-on, no-resale game consoles can suck a gargantuan donkey dong.

You'll probably have to pay extra to see that kind of action. ALWAYS TRYING TO GET MO MONEY!

 

[Duxxy3]

If MS actually does this dumb shit, and Sony follows them...I'll be Wii U/PC only this gen.

Thanks Nintendo, for not doing this.

Same.

 

[giant_frying_pan]

Part of me now wants Sony to actually do this just so I can see Edge's pathetic attempts at spinning it into a positive.

 

[cookie-monster]

This is not like PC, this is a console, which will be obsoleted by the manufacturer in a few years. It sounds like the a natural extension of the removal of your ownership rights that the mega-publishers have been pushing towards for years now.

To say it's just like the PC model is utter bunk.

My Steam PC games from 2004 still work long after Bill Gates' Original Xbox Live Arcade games stopped working. My GoG games work long after the operating system they were written on was abandoned. My PC games will still work long after your Xbox 360 XBLA games are abandoned. My Steam games can still be made to work even if Valve are destroyed, because I control my system, and there are ways of doing these things.

This idea on consoles is an invitation to piss money away, whereas PC gaming will carry on for as long as x86 computing survives. You can line up like suckers if you like, and pretend it's just like a PC, but it's not, it's the worst of all worlds. Planned obsolescence, always-on DRM, platform lock-in, high prices, installs, patching, no store competition. Awful. I fully expect Sony to take the same route as well.

And if they use the same pricing policy as they have currently (or charge even more, as Epic implied costs will be rising 2x) then it will certainly be interesting to see what happens.

With these kinds of rumours flying around alongside the underwhelming specifications, I will definitely not be an early adopter.

 

[quest]

Wouldn't that be illegal? My gut tells me that Sony doesn't do this, they can't be that stupid. It would be such an easy opportunity for them to get a big advantage over Microsoft.

If 1 is doing it both will do it no question about it. Even if it is publishers forcing the second company on board by saying if you don't do it we won't publish games on your machine. I could see Nintendo forced into this also if MS and Sony do it.

 

[Foffy]

Odd how so many are ready believe any and every negative rumour about MS without question no matter how unlikely it may be.

Personally, this rumor has less to do with MS and more of the troubling issue of corporate control being pervasive in yet another realm of consumer commerce. This could be Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, or even all three and I'd still be against it.

 

[Mononoke]

Gaming isn't a human right, its a voluntary hobby you participate in. Companies do not owe you anything and nobody is taking advantage of you.



Agree

While this is true, consumers are what allow these companies to exist. What they decide to buy, determines what is successful.

So while I agree that gaming is not a right, and no one owes anyone anything (other then the product advertised), it doesn't seem too smart to look at your consumers as peasant/slaves that will bend at your will.

 

[sflufan]

Always online? If it helps curb achievement cheating completely, I'm all for it.
But I have a feeling it won't help protect against manipulation of that and only cause DRM-related things.

Achievements that can only be earned with locked "online savedata"...and that data cannot be transferred or backed up anywhere but Microsoft's proprietary cloud. It's not stored on your hard drive. If you want to back up locally, it would become "offline data" and achievements couldn't be unlocked. People who don't care about achievements wouldn't have to worry then. Also, somehow, your Profile wouldn't be able to be backed up locally/transferred to PC. It would rid all the manipulation. I hope this idea of mine (which I've detailed in a previous post) is implemented in some way.

Can the Achievement system finally be what it intended to be? Fully showing what someone has done in games, without any of it lying. Right now, you can't be sure sometimes due to cheating.

BWWAAA HAHAH HHAHAHAHH HAHAHAHAH...oh man, whew - I needed a laugh today!

 

[Nokagi]

Thank you. Gamers are so delusional these days.

Yeah how dare consumers want what's best for them? Shameful jerks.

 

[MGR]

This almost certainly won't happen, as your portion of that wallet share that was going to go to GameStop will remain in the customers wallets, and in addition a notable proportion of the people who buy new games day one for full price will be put off doing that without a method of resale. In short, publishers and developers will definitely see less money from any format doing this sort of anti-used-game DRM.

For arguments sake lets say a person buys a new game of $60 and sells back to retailer for $20 less.
The retailer then resells that game for with a $10 profit ($50) before the game is traded back at $40
The game is traded several times until devalued to zero.

In this example five people have played the game and all forked out $20 each for the privilege (total $100). If the retailer makes zero profit on the new sale then about $60 has gone to the publisher and $40 to the retailer. Now what if we cut out the middle man and just sell the new game to each person at $20 each? Publisher now gets $100, retailer $0 and the gamer is no better or worse off.

The figures used are only examples. Of course the actual numbers will vary greatly depending various factors but basically gamers are willing to spend X number of dollars for X amount of content. By disabling second hand sales you're simply changing how the wallet share is divided.

What dimension did you two just hop out of? You're tapping into the wrong reality for that way of thinking. You are out of your mind if you think companies don't want to milk the premium "take as much as you can from the consumer" ideal of pricing and replace it with more fluctuating prices. There is no evidence that what you two hope for would even be a reality on a platform without second-hand sales, let alone the fixing of the awful emphasis on multiplayer over single player, even for single player franchises.

Steam? App Store?

Publishers can charge whatever they like, but it's still a competitive market so pricing will still need to be aggressive. If buying a new game on release day is too expensive for you then have some patience and wait for the inevitable sales and discounts. Or if pricing on an alternative platform offers better value for you personally then go with that. If MS loose enough business due to their policies they'll adjust accordingly to win you back.

Ultimately it's the consumer that holds the power.

 

[PandaL]

Blocking used games - I can live with it.
Always online - FAIL

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Caaaallleeeeeeed iiiiit!

I think some sort of always online DRM or anti-used games function could hurt their chances, as well as too expensive consoles.

 

[mack999]

Like someone said, you can bring your console.

What if he hasn't got any internet?