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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect

Dunan

Member
I hope there are some solid statistics collected by MS that this will not collapse the retail gaming ecosystem. After all, if you can't trade your game in, you may be a lot more discerning in buying as many new releases. Total obliteration of second tier games.

Further to this, the ability to trade off your game has resulted in higher quality products. The developer wanted you to keep your copy to prevent it competing against the sale of an unopened one. That insentive evaporates.

I really can't see it. The only way this is feasible if the keys can be re-purchased at a discount, like todays online passes. But this time the retailer can source it also (at a fee) and include it as part of the secondhand sale. Everybody wins.

Following on from this: today, publishers have a great incentive to produce games that their customers never want to sell. If nobody sells the game, the used market is small, and newcomers to the game will buy new; the publisher might even be able to reprint the game.

But if used sales become impossible, the publisher's incentive not only evaporates, but reverses direction entirely. They wouldn't gain anything by making a game that everybody wants to hold on to for years and years. Instead, with each key purchase for an existing copy, the publisher takes in pure profit with no additional production costs -- which means that they'd be better off intentionally producing ephemeral games that nobody wants to keep. Move that content from person to person and get paid multiple times after only producing it once!

Is that the kind of game industry that we customers want?
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
No, but devs and Microsoft themselves could instantly contact EDGE as a "source" and shoot down the rumor. EDGE would instantly post that on its website.
But they won't because they don't comment on rumours or speculation unless they're truly ridiculous. It's sad, but this doesn't appear that ridiculous or unfathomable anymore.

MS won't say shit because they don't have or need to. They serve nothing to gain from commenting on nonsense rumours. ATM they're just happy people are excited about next gen enough to be talking about it this much. I doubt any company cares much about rumours.
 

Mononoke

Banned
The dev all but confirms this is false. Most likely a smear from Sony.

Sony playing dirty?

TgCeu8i.jpg
 

Rhindle

Member
someone in another thread brought up the fact that movies have a theatrical run where you essentially have to "buy" the movie "new" since you can only see it in theaters

what if game publishers did something similar? hardcode a 6 month expiration date into the game's code so the "forced online, no used games" check stops after 6 months
edit: the date check would have to be via NTP servers so you couldn't just change your console's clock
Still wouldn't make people happy, since they apparently believe they should be able to resell their movie tickets as they walk out of the theater.
 
-"Always online" simply means that the online only features, which will be more prominent next gen, won't be available so users will be missing out w/out an internet connection. Still, games *will work* w/out a connection.

And here's hoping one of those "online only, more prominent" features will be Achievements next gen. Sick of cheaters this generation on both consoles. MS, look at my "online/offline savedata" idea and implement it. It needs to be foolproof (and profile editing also not possible).

Or screw up this feature again...sounds more like it. Here's hoping they've learned this gen from the millions of tampering reports and gamerscore resetting they've had to do.

Don't you think they want to save on that time, effort and those resources it takes to clean up the "gamerscore" cheating going on this gen?
 

Hindle

Banned
Please explain how that is a denial.

Well he does point out the strange timings of these rumours. The fact they're entirely negative is something that made me wonder even before he said that.

Edit: things like this do go on in the industry by the way. A dev from T10 was caught spreading false shit about GT 5.
 

Wiz

Member
If this is what next gen will be all about, I'll happily agree with all the folks who say the Wii U is not next gen.
 

Dai101

Banned
Kids these days, they just don't appreciate the shit we put up with back in the day.

How about boxing a mid-tower PC, CRT monitor, keyboard, and speakers to take to a friends house to play LAN games? We did that at least once a month for years.

Fucking kids this days. We used to carry 25"+ CRT tv's for our Halo (and many other consoles and games) LAN every other weekend. Fucking spoiled brats.

BTW. I'll never buy a console that blocks 2nd hand games and don't support always online models. Fuck that.
 

jbug617

Banned
As of right now it seems Microsoft stance that there is no new Xbox. Everything saying there is has been "sources say".
 

JJD

Member
If MS really adopts a no used games policy I fully expect Sony to follow then.

Fuck then all...and I don't even sell my games or buy used.

I'm just against this by principle.
 

DjangoReinhardt

Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
If MS wants to switch to a rental/subscription model, then the prices of hardware and software need to reflect that. Right now, I can reasonably expect to recoup half of what I spend if I sell a game and have a piece of hardware that will work until it breaks and that I can sell when I choose. Those circumstances are why I'm willing to spend what I do on console games.

If I can't re-sell games and MS has an effective kill switch for every piece of hardware and software on top of that, then I'm simply not willing so spend anywhere near as much as I do now for the console or games.
 
I just asked the world outside GAF how this new 'always online' console sounded for the unannounced Xbox. Nobody had heard about it nor cared. These 'damaging' rumors mean nothing to anybody outside of GAF at the moment. Why would Microsoft bother to react to this?
 

Thoraxes

Member
This is basically the worst case scenario.

Kinda disgusting if true.

I just asked the world outside GAF how this new 'always online' console sounded for the unannounced Xbox. Nobody had heard about it nor cared. These 'damaging' rumors mean nothing to anybody outside of GAF at the moment. Why would Microsoft bother to react to this?
Because if they really are planning it, backlash among their core consumer base would be something reckless to go against. Especially now that we have social media as a means of communication and spreading information.
 

Foffy

Banned
I'm curious if Nextgen will be the end of piracy. With 50GB blurays becoming the norm, I don't think rapidshare and bittorrent will be popular any more. Add the price of a bluray writer plus blank blurays, and I think most cheap people will resort to waiting for the bargain bin again.

Nope. We've migrated from disks and hardware mods to files and software mods. 50 GB doesn't mean shit for torrenting clients. The issue however arises here assuming that you believe we'll even have a bargain bin. Many companies will make sure to never have their games at cheap prices on a system that's new games only focused unless sales have flatlined. The bargain bin games would be the titles no major company would be releasing and supporting.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Well he does point out the strange timings of these rumours.
There's nothing "strange" about the timing. Next-gen products are expected this year from both MS and Sony and interest is rising, so people are starting to dig more.

That there isn't exact "equivalence" in terms of rumors from the Sony side right now may have something to do with possible contentment to wait until an unveiling that we know is just a couple of weeks away now.
 
Then it's super weird how, in this thread, you listed several games as "borrowed" or "rented."



Super weird.
I rented Halo like, 10 years ago? RE4 and Star Fox Command was around the same time.

But I rent every once in a while. I borrow every once in a while. I buy used every once in a while. You're under the impression that I'm saying that it's a sin to buy used, borrow or rent and that I am saying that it's something I would never do. I'm not saying that at all. I'm simply saying that I don't base my buying decisions on if I can make money back or not. It isn't make or break for me. I have no problem buying a game new. I'm a gamer (not comparing myself to anyone else), I love this hobby and you will never find me saying that I will quit gaming over something like this. That's what I have the problem with. You can't make money, so you're done? Peace! Don't let the controller hit you in the ass on the way out.

Someone made a good point about the preservation of discontinued games and I agreed with him in this very thread.

But beyond the preservation of videogames, it really doesn't bother me that MS wants to protect themselves and devs against the used game market. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.
 

Ponn

Banned
Still wouldn't make people happy, since they apparently believe they should be able to resell their movie tickets as they walk out of the theater.

You can sell your movie ticket. In fact I sold my original LoTR trilogy marathon ticket way back when they did it for RoTK premiere.

the comparison you were trying to make is stupid by the way and you should feel bad for trying to suggest it
 

Colin.

Member
I don't think either Microsoft or Sony will implement no used games, would be too much of a risk to sales. The main problem with digital content on non PC platforms is the pricing, I could pick any retail game and find it much cheaper elsewhere. I don't get it, they should be cheaper as this cuts out a 3rd party (retailer) and manufacturing costs.
 
If MS wants to switch to a rental/subscription model, then the prices of hardware and software need to reflect that. Right now, I can reasonably expect to recoup half of what I spend if I sell a game and have a piece of hardware that will work until it breaks and that I can sell when I choose. Those circumstances are why I'm willing to spend what I do on console games.

If I can't re-sell games and MS has an effective kill switch for every piece of hardware and software on top of that, then I'm simply not willing so spend anywhere near as much as I do now for the console or games.
What you are saying is that presently you have a certain level of liquidity in your gaming entertainment budget that a rental/subscription model would eliminate. This liquidity helps overcome your price elasticity of demand for video game purchases.
 

Thoraxes

Member
The worst case would be all this garbage plus region locking.

Let's hope that that isn't buried in the fine print.

Maybe all the schmups could move to Nintendo and Sony :D

That is why I just can't believe this rumor.

E3 can't come soon enough.
I'd really like to believe they aren't that dumb, but anti-piracy measures as well as piracy itself have both come a long way in a heated battle over the past 6-8 years.
 

Arcteryx

Member
I just asked the world outside GAF how this new 'always online' console sounded for the unannounced Xbox. Nobody had heard about it nor cared. These 'damaging' rumors mean nothing to anybody outside of GAF at the moment. Why would Microsoft bother to react to this?

I could say the same about any myriad of other subjects, but that doesn't mean that those people unawares will not be affected by this.

What happens when a parent buys little Timmy an Xbox for Christmas, only to discover that he cannot play games on it without having a constant connection?

What about SP only games? Why should Timmy need a constant connection for those?


Joke now, but if this rumor holds to be true...there will be a big backlash.
 
When it potentially means that customers will continue to spread the rumours, and tout the PS4 as superior, it is in Microsoft's interests to release a firm "These leaks are not true".

But they haven't.

Corporate America does not move that fast.

Any denial or "no comment" needs to cross so many desks it can take hours (if not longer) to respond.
 

Foffy

Banned
I don't think either Microsoft or Sony will implement no used games, would be too much of a risk to sales. The main problem with digital content on non PC platforms is the pricing, I could pick any retail game and find it much cheaper elsewhere. I don't get it, they should be cheaper as this cuts out a 3rd party (retailer) and manufacturing costs.

Do you honestly think companies care any longer about cutting costs to lower consumer prices? We're in a world where companies just want to lower the costs for themselves and charge as much as they can get away with in return.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; the corporate ideal is not beneficial to the consumer. Period.
 

x3sphere

Member
Maybe if you're at home. Maybe if your internet is reliable.

But consider this scenario. A few years back I spent a week in a remote converted chapel in Derbyshire. Took my console with me and a bunch of favourite games of course. Was there any internet there? Was there fuck.

So - you can't take your console on holiday/business with you huh?

Doesn't sound good to me.

Maybe there will be an offline mode akin to Steam. You'll just have to be signed in for the initial activation
 

Mononoke

Banned
Corporate America does not move that fast.

Any denial or "no comment" needs to cross so many desks it can take hours (if not longer) to respond.

This is definitely true. If MS responds, wouldn't be this instant. And why should it? Would look silly if a major company is reading rumors/forums and replying immediately.
 

slider

Member
You can sell your movie ticket. In fact I sold my original LoTR trilogy marathon ticket way back when they did it for RoTK premiere.

the comparison you were trying to make is stupid by the way and you should feel bad for trying to suggest it

Hmm, this is really interesting. I wonder if eventually everything moves to the cloud where that leaves consumers? It's a pretty contrived discussion point so I'll move on!

So, instead, I wonder how many people see games as an "experience". Or are making that argument (I'm not btw). The physical media leans it the other way of course...

Gah, I'm just fumbling for a coherent thought. Someone finish this for me.
 

artist

Banned
I don't trust much coming out of Edge these days. They seem to be very rumor happy and Sony centric.
I sure hope that Edge is wrong on this one .. also wish some of the Xbox media (magazines etc.) come out with their side of the story. Keeping mum isnt doing good.
 
At this point it's more likely than not that both consoles will have a no-used-games policy.

And it's more likely than not that I'm going to skip the launches of both the PS4 and the 720.
It's a shame, but I really just can't support these kinds of toxic, anti-consumer practices.
 

Girsej

Member
Well, I can see MS doing this... it's the same company that tried to force gamers to become early adopters of Vista by making Direct X 10 exlusive to Vista.

I can see Sony following suit as well... neither of them is a beacon of consumer rights :/
 
If we don't see a Major Nelson denial of this story at some point today, it's true. Microsoft would not allow this to linger for that long.


However, if Microsoft is doing this, I'm kind of inclined to believe Sony is doing it too, because I just can't imagine Microsoft would do this unless Sony was also doing it.


If Microsoft does this, and Sony doesn't............good luck Microsoft. lol
 
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