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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect

3rdman

Member
You know, I really hate this but then again, I'm one of the biggest cheerleaders for a SteamBox to be released which would essentially be the same. On the other hand, I don't think that they'll do the same thing Valve will do (free online play and better pricing)...

I have little belief that this will actually occur though so I'll probably be saying goodbye to them...the fools!
 

Rat Salad

Banned
You guys think both Sony and Microsoft will offer a exclusive rental plans on new games? Sorta like what PSN+ does? Wait about 4 months then the game will show up in their rental cue. It'd be just like them to do that after wanting used games banned. LOL. God this sucks.
 

Tobor

Member
This. I mean I personally think it will hurt them but Microsoft has 100% done a TON of research and analysis and can back up their decision (whatever it is) with more than a hunch.

The ability for them to completely control distribution of media for their platform, have a much better way to track sales and price products, not lose money to retailer middlemen, and not "lose money" to used game sales (or whatever their analysis shows) is VERY attractive and could outweigh any negative impact of their decision. I don't think it will, but I don't have anything to back it up. That said, my hunch isn't based on me not liking the idea - I'm OK with it.

"The final report from market research is in, sir."

"Excellent. Sum it up for me."

"It's just as you suggested, sir. A vocal minority will whine, yet buy it anyway. The majority either won't understand it or won't care. We're in the clear. Your orders, sir?"

"Unleash hell."
 
Don't give a shit about no second hand sales, but always online is absolutely a deal breaker for me.

There's no such thing as tech that can guarantee uninterupted internet at every step between myself and remote hosted authentication servers.
 
It may be bad for gamers but if they want the Nextbox, who are you to tell them not to buy it?

I'm not telling them not to buy it, I'm trying to educate them. The "it doesn't affect me" mentality is a horrible one to have of a hobby where you and your peers have the power to shape where the industry goes.

Especially when it does affect you whether you understand why or not.
 
They should at least allow the purchase of activation codes for used, rented or borrowed games, especially in a multi-console home. What do you guys think about that?
 
What if they announce no used games, single account, but brand new "full retail" games are $40 and they want to model older game prices on how Steam does it, and give publishers more say over pricing?
 
Well if Microsoft does indeed decide to implement this feature then the publisher would get extra revenue that they wouldn't have gotten from the used game market so it seems like a fair trade off.

That still makes no sense. If people aren't paying for DLC what incentive does a developer have to make it?


What if they announce no used games, single account, but brand new "full retail" games are $40 and they want to model older game prices on how Steam does it, and give publishers more say over pricing?

A system like Apples App Store or the Google Play Marketplace would be interesting. No used sales, and the publishers have full control over the pricing but Microsoft takes a percentage of it.
 
Pretty funny how some of you guys are stating you're going to quit gaming, funny stuff, you will be right there when ps4/ 720 get announced and posting gifs on gaf regardless.
 

Vitacat

Member
"The final report from market research is in, sir."

"Excellent. Sum it up for me."

"It's just as you suggested, sir. A vocal minority will whine, yet buy it anyway. The majority either won't understand it or won't care. We're in the clear. Your orders, sir?"

"Unleash hell."

That is, very sadly, probably accurate. :-/

FUCK.

However, count me as part of the vocal minority who will not buy it anyway.
 
If MS is seriously considering this, they have already weighed the potential loss of consumers versus the potential gains of having 100 of users connected go their service, gold or silver - and the latter won over. If so, this GAF outrage and the doomsday prognostication that comes with it is just apart of their expected blowback that they have accounted for and considered.
 

Argyle

Member
so you can only play the new xbox with the internet all the time

i cannot afford that

when i not using the interent i turn it off

So, I was just thinking (and I don't really have much insight into what MS is doing, so this is just speculation)...

What if the new Xbox had wireless service similar to the 3G Kindles (no subscription fees to the end user)? That is, they make a deal with a cell phone carrier, it has a 3G radio in it, and it's used as a backup if your internet connection dies/doesn't exist. It's only used for authentication so the bandwidth requirement is low, and because of that, the cell phone company agrees to provide this backup service at no charge to the end user (presumably MS can kick them some of that XBL Gold money).

Would it still be pitchforks and torches, or would that go a long way to making people feel better? Granted, you are still screwed if the XBL servers go down, but at least it mostly takes your net connection failing out of the equation (unless you get no coverage where you are, which is of course possible)...
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Why do you guys think they would do anything to 'sweeten' the deal if they did this? Remember when Microsoft games were 50 instead of 60? Remember how that didn't even last a year?
 

MooseKing

Banned
Is that true? I find it hard to believe.

It was posted here on Neogaf. Forgot the thread name. Including subscriptions, PC games make up more revenue then any single console does. In some cases, like Activision, more than 50 percent of total revenue of the entire company,.
 

Crazyorloco

Member
I think MS knows that if you have internet, you're more likely to continue to purchase game add-ons, dlc, maps etc. If you don't have internet, then you won't get all that, you're not a source of continued income for them. So they're just adandoning the always offline (& slow internet) gamer. Which I think is wrong because as someone stated earlier in this thread, that's about 30% of the U.S.



50gb pretty small for pushing always online.


Cant see them doing this. Maybe for the bare bones alternative.

It's just the storage for the Blu-ray disc. That's plenty. The console should have a lot of storage room though.
 

Vinci

Danish
If MS is seriously considering this, they have already weighed the potential loss of consumers versus the potential gains of having 100 of users connected go their service, gold or silver - and the latter won over. If so, this GAF outrage and the doomsday prognostication that comes with it is just apart of their expected blowback that they have accounted for and considered.

Are we really granting superior market research and analysis skills to the company that spent a billion dollars in advertising and still is struggling to sell its latest two products?
 
Can you explain why this is a deal breaker for you? I'm not being sarcastic, I am actually quite curious.

I edited it in; a device that does not function unless it is in continuous communication with authentication servers is a device I am not going to buy.

I boycotted Diablo 3 due to always online requirements, I'm sure as shit not buying hardware that operates under the same terms.

There is no possible tech that can guarantee uninterrupted service at every step of an internet connection between my home and a remote authentication server.
 

Drek

Member
Again, if Microsoft does this and Sony does not, will it not force publishers onto the next Xbox?

Publishers could perceive the PS4 to have cooties, (potential of lost revenue due to second hand sales).

Sure, if they want to go out of business.

Japanese and European publishers are generally not the ones bitching about this. U.S. publishers, namely EA, Activision, are.

So if those two publishers ignored the PS4 and Sony does win this generation where does that leave them? Shit out of luck, trying to catch up with other publishers who've built more consumer loyalty.

It's a risk almost no 3rd parties could really take, betting on one platform despite it having a boat anchor feature like no used games tied around it's waist.

They would still be on PS4 but they wont put in extra work, they would be straight ports. So even though the PS4 would be the more powerful machine, why put extra effort into making the PS4 version superior, when you could make more money if you made the xbox version the lead platform.
Sure, and the gulf between Sony's first party games and PS4 exclusives versus everyone else would only get even larger. This is a worse strategy than just going all-in X720 because they aren't giving the 720 as strong a selling point but will still fall short compared to the competition on PS4, so if the PS4 is the lead platform they just intentionally under-delivered to the largest user base while their competition was crushing them.

Fact is, if the "no used games" block goes into effect on one system but not the other that system is FUCKED. If both do it then consumers will have to put up with it because core gamers aren't going to the Wii U. But if only one does it they've signed their own death warrant long term.
 

Foffy

Banned
If MS is seriously considering this, they have already weighed the potential loss of consumers versus the potential gains of having 100 of users connected go their service, gold or silver - and the latter won over. If so, this GAF outrage and the doomsday prognostication that comes with it is just apart of their expected blowback that they have accounted for and considered.

MS has been long pushing this idea that their games machine is more of a media/advertisement box, as that's what the 360 has been in the last few years. I believe, if this is true, MS is heavily banking that they have such a plan set in stone that they can handle this setup from core consumers of video games. Perhaps the entertainment hooks help it capture the mainstream audience and perhaps that will be enough for them to have the machine and hopefully purchase content on their machine instead of having an entirely separate machine for that purpose. That would perhaps be the most logical explanation for this decision; they have to be banking on more than core consumers of video games, especially given the massive shitstorm that has surfaced from them.
 

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
In theory this is BS. Then you remember Gamestop sells used copies for $5-$10 less than the new price and is isn't so bad. Still a stupid idea though, and it's weird how much Nintendo seems to be going out of their way to make retail stores happy, from interviews with Iwata.

If they're willing to piss of retail that much, they better have some steam-like sales.
 

Thoraxes

Member
What if they announce no used games, single account, but brand new "full retail" games are $40 and they want to model older game prices on how Steam does it, and give publishers more say over pricing?

It's still a closed platform, which is the main problem.
 

Corto

Member
If MS is seriously considering this, they have already weighed the potential loss of consumers versus the potential gains of having 100 of users connected go their service, gold or silver - and the latter won over. If so, this GAF outrage and the doomsday prognostication that comes with it is just apart of their expected blowback that they have accounted for and considered.

Sometimes the most elaborate plans can crumble down when reality hits. I'm sure Sony thought that 599$ was a sacrifice that people were prepared to make.
 
You're assuming that the next XBOX would be easier to develop for.

No, its not about ease of development, its a publisher deciding where to spend its resources. Criterion games are usually developed for ps3 then ported to xbox, and usually run best on PS3. This is backwards for most other games making the 360 version usually run better.

All of the rumors say the PS4 will be much easier to develop for then the PS3. But why would 3rd parties put the effort in to take advantage of the PS4 specs when they can potentially make more profit on the xbox version because no used games, So the publisher would go out of there way to make the xbox version the best one, so consumers would choose to buy that version.
 
So let's see what we have here:

Microsoft lowering its specs, focusing on Kinect and media functionality over core gaming features, and blocking used games, while also requiring an always online connection...

Nintendo with the Wii U, a region locked system that currently has draconian DRM for digital purchases (but at least there we have confirmation that they will eventually remove it), poor third party support, and gimped specs again...

Sony so far seems to be doing everything right, but we don't know how expensive the PS4 will be, nor do we know if they will also employ anti used games measures...

Yeah, if this keeps up, I'm quitting console gaming altogether. I'll stick to handhelds, the 3DS and Vita don't have any such bullshit, and maybe I'll build that long overdue gaming PC as well (where at least I get cheap prices on all games). Later on, I might just pick a Wii U on the cheap for my dose of Nintendo's first party, but holy shit does it look like all of them are totally dropping the ball.
 
I believe that without used games the market will adjust. As demand for a game falls off the prices will drop, of course I think you will be able to buy discs second hand and purchase a new activation code. Games will live on Gamestop might not.
Will it be mandatory or at the discretion of the publisher?
 

Rat Salad

Banned
Pretty funny how some of you guys are stating you're going to quit gaming, funny stuff, you will be right there when ps4/ 720 get announced and posting gifs on gaf regardless.


You don't know me well then. :b I have a backlog from hell dating back to the NES. Gaming is becoming more a pain in the ass,I could easily walk away. I'll head to PC gaming where they the games are on sale more often. :) Half the reason the public game is because its fun and can be cost effective with used games. You take those two things away and you'll see a mass exodus.
 

Thoraxes

Member
There are some reasons why this could be true:

1. Would allow to install your disc to your consoles hard drive without the need for the disc.
2. Microsoft could argue that PC services such as Steam have had a system like this for years
3. This would definitely make the system much harder to hack/pirate games
4. Gamefly and rental industry in general can no longer hurt potential sales
5. Used game industry can no longer hurt potential sales

There are also reasons why this could be nothing more than a rumor:

1. This could seriously hurt console sales
2. Used game retailers could turn a "cold shoulder" on the system entirely
3. Publishers could actually lose sales (many people only like to buy games they can trade in/resell, Gamefly can only rent out games that they buy in the first place)
4. A large portion of consumers don't have a reliable internet connection, if anything at all

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I am leaning toward this being not true. It would make it too easy for Microsoft's competition to succeed. Steam might be a DRM based service, but the dramatic price drops during their summer and winter sales more than make up for it. Microsoft would have to offer games at "too good to be true" prices in order for people to be suckered in. I would buy a game with all the DRM in the world if the game was desirable enough and the price was right. $60? Hell no.

If anything, it would encourage hackers to break it open even faster.

Also, you'd probably still need the disc to authenticate anyways unless they all shipped with online codes.
So let's see what we have here:

Nintendo with the Wii U, a region locked system that currently has draconian DRM for digital purchases (but at least there we have confirmation that they will eventually remove it), poor third party support, and gimped specs again...
Not saying you're wrong, but I wouldn't mix incompetence with draconian DRM. They're pretty different things.
 

Vinci

Danish
Sometimes the most elaborate plans can crumble down when reality hits. I'm sure Sony thought that 599$ was a sacrifice that people were prepared to make.

No. That was marketing going, "Oh fuck! What has Ken done?! We have to try to keep ourselves from bleeding to death by making early sales lower volume till the components get cheaper to produce."
 
I wouldn't quit gaming altogether, but I'll probably stick to portables and old school gaming if both Sony and Microsoft take this route.

Yup. I've been telling myself that I need to get away from buying all this shit day one, and it seems that MS may make that decision easier. The Wii U is probably the only console I haven't bought day one in two decades, and I'll have no problem skipping the NextBox as well. If the PS4 follows suit, I'll just finally start working on my massive backlog.
 
Let's say this is true and I do go ahead and buy the next xbox.

That just means I'm going to be buying LESS games and LESS dlc for any game I purchase. I'll be spending LESS on XBL and so on.
 

Takuya

Banned
No, its not about ease of development, its a publisher deciding where to spend its resources. Criterion games are usually developed for ps3 then ported to xbox, and usually run best on PS3. This is backwards for most other games making the 360 version usually run better.

All of the rumors say the PS4 will be much easier to develop for then the PS3. But why would 3rd parties put the effort in to take advantage of the PS4 specs when they can potentially make more profit on the xbox version because no used games, So the publisher would go out of there way to make the xbox version the best one, so consumers would choose to buy that version.

You put your money where you will make the most profit. And that is in a larger installed base. Even if used games aren't blocked, you still have a better chance at making more profit by selling to more customers.
 
Neither of those conclusions make any sense. EDGE would lose some credibility (few people outside gaf will care or remember in a week), not "all" of it. Microsoft presumably has done some market research on this and believes that it's worthwhile, which is more than gaf used-gaming armchair analysts can say. Indeed, few gaffers know anything about the market and base their gloomy analysis solely on the fact they don't like the idea. It's probably a slightly risky move, but to suggest that it will single-handedly doom a console regardless of other factors is completely absurd.
With all due respect to your optimism: No. It would absolutely doom the console.

If the "gaf analysts" are appalled by the restrictions, imagine what the average consumer would think. It wouldn't be pretty.

I basically rolled with Xbox this entire gen, but I'd switch to Sony in a second if the "internet required/no used games" rumors are remotely true. Hell, if Sony did this too, I'd just go Wii U.

The suits operate in an alternate reality where they think forcing everyone to buy new is a justified conclusion, despite every generation before it operating without stifling used games. In actuality, a large amount of people, faced with "no used games - new or nothing," would simply pick "nothing."

I also imagine that this would have an impact on companies with long running series. How can you catch up on the previous entry if stores haven't stocked it for a long while? The negative effects to such a decision would be countless, and you can mock "armchair analysts" all you want, but they're absolutely right.

And I don't even really buy used games like that, but I do sell mine when I've beaten them. No reason to hold onto what has essentially become a coaster to me, especially when I can get 30-40 bucks for it. Buying and reselling games allows me to justify my gaming habit financially...if I couldn't do that anymore, I wouldn't even bother.

Also, this would absolutely CRUSH developers who don't have the manpower to make 30+ hour experiences. Even if it was a great game, people would go "well, the campaign is only 12 hours long...why get that when I can spend the same amount of money to buy this 60+ hour game that 'gives me more for my money?'"

So, no, it's not hyperbole to say that this would doom the console. If these rumors are true, they absolutely would.

As for Edge, I'd say that reputation harming misinformation that borders on disinformation would probably ruin their credibility SEVERELY. No question about it.
Ebooks are selling like hotcakes. These are single account.
The metaphor doesn't break because it's referencing physical copies of both books and software.
 
I can't see why there would be any truth to the leak about abandonment of secondhand sales. Microsoft wouldn't be that ignorant and stupid.

If it is true though, you can be sure of a couple things.
1) Dramatic drop in XBOX sales compared to last gen. Like 'Nicolas Cage in the 90s' dramatic.
2) Read '1)' again.
 
I hope this is true, I never sell my games. Last time I did it was like3 years ago. Doesn't scare me one bit at all

I hope you never lend, borrow, or want to have an Xbox in the other room of the house for your kid, either.

Also...this isn't about just you. Maybe try to be a little less self-centered.
 

Vinci

Danish
Let's say this is true and I do go ahead and buy the next xbox.

That just means I'm going to be buying LESS games and LESS dlc for any game I purchase. I'll be spending LESS on XBL and so on.

I don't know how you could possibly calculate this without knowing the entire strategy or how DLC or Live fit into it.
 
No, its not about ease of development, its a publisher deciding where to spend its resources. Criterion games are usually developed for ps3 then ported to xbox, and usually run best on PS3. This is backwards for most other games making the 360 version usually run better.

All of the rumors say the PS4 will be much easier to develop for then the PS3. But why would 3rd parties put the effort in to take advantage of the PS4 specs when they can potentially make more profit on the xbox version because no used games, So the publisher would go out of there way to make the xbox version the best one, so consumers would choose to buy that version.

And how do we know they will make more profit just going with xbox over leaving another big platform on the table that they are probably already developing for?
 
man, this all turned into a shit storm right quick, didn't it?
Its a pretty huge development, especially since we're talking about the company that brought us Xbox Live Gold. How anybody could possibly think the customer's interest is even a glimmer in their thoughts is beyond me.

If this is true, I will enjoy watching this unfold, just for the sheer hubris and narrow-mindedness behind it all.
 
I was kind of expecting this. I'm so used to PC gaming with Steam and whatnot that it doesn't bother me in the slightest, but it's too bad for people who can't be online all the time. Hopefully the console will have an offline mode or something.
 
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