RedNumberFive
Banned
You seem like a good friend.
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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
You seem like a good friend.
Turkeysub15
Banned
Because THEY DO.
A thought about the always-online thing: that might tie into the rumored IP/cable-provider monthly payment system. If most people get their NextBox as part of something like that, which would be likely, then an Internet connection and cable would be basically assured for the system. Making it less of a hurdle.
anon_mastermind
Member
I don't see a scenario where Microsoft, but not Sony, implements this anti-used games thing. Both or none.
yurinka
Member
Yep, cheaper and with more games. There are nice portables too.
Same, we will have to wait and see what Sony says about this news on February 20th.
RedNumberFive
Banned
I wouldn't underestimate Microsoft's ability to make disastrous decisions. You really give them too much credit. This is a company that knowingly sold broken consoles, only to have it come back and bite them in the ass.
If Sony isn't doing it, they should make it clear on the first fucking slide. Then we might get something out of MS on the subject.
MightyHealthy
Banned
Whoa whoa whoa, let's not rewrite history here.
Paying for XBL at the start of this generation (and the generation before it, to be factual) made sense, because Microsoft clearly grew the platform over time. They proliferated online gaming to places most didn't even dream of.
Of course it looks silly now that they have seemingly hit a plateau, and now that their competitor offers free online play (with dedicated servers in some cases), while 360 owners still pay to unlock peer-to-peer connection...
but Xbox Live Gold was renamed from Xbox LIVE to that, to accentuate that you didn't have to pay a dime (Xbox Live Silver) to access a fair amount of Xbox Live features (Updates/Patches, Apps, some DLC, etc.)
Of course, MS got ridiculous with it, and started burying potential new 360 features behind the Gold "paywall" to justify the subscription costs (*cough*Netflix*cough*)...but back then, you paid for it, and you had this feeling it was worth it and it was going to get even better.
Let's not pretend like Microsoft didn't play a very large part in making console online gaming in the U.S. what it is today...for better or for worse.
Here here. I agree. But if MS utilizes "always online" and PS4 does not, which has no bearing on the used game argument, then it will be just as bad for MS.
flyinpiranha
Member
I edited above. I meant mainly the pricing structure is what helps Steam and the DRM model sit more easily. There is a reason that when there is a Steam sale the "Top Sellers" are those games ... I too have bought a few full priced games, but even on launch you can get them fairly cheap (Borderlands 2 4 packs, and such). It's hard to compare the two systems because right now we have no idea what the pricing structure for one is.
And yes, your last sentence is what I am suggesting. I am not saying it's in my best interest but if console game's prices lowered more quickly and their were sales such as Steam ... I wouldn't be 'as' against it.
Which is what I'm getting at. Comparing the two models (DRM & Pricing) doesn't seem to be a decent comparison just because they have similarities. If the pricing comes into play then the "no used games" becomes that much more easier to digest.
Again, I'm not for it, I just think it will be more accepted if the pricing was also closer to what Steam offers with sales.
Mr. Luchador
Member
So, say this is legit. And games are tied to accounts, and I have little faith that pricing will be 'fair' (£50-£60 rrp enforced)... less people will buy on impulse. Who's going to take risks on those new IPs? Which reviewers do you 'trust' when they tell you a game is 8/10+ and worth playing?
I'm thinking about all those cheaper games I've bought on impulse, and while they haven't been amazing, I'd have been gutted if I purchase them at full retail and then was stuck with them.
I'm thinking about all those cheaper games I've bought on impulse, and while they haven't been amazing, I'd have been gutted if I purchase them at full retail and then was stuck with them.
Always online DRM and no second-hand games are not that big a deal as GAF likes to think it is. The PC hasn't had a second-hand market for years and you don't hear anyone complaining. Meanwhile everyone is so in love with Steam they're almost forgetting it has DRM as well.
The crux of the problem is price. $60 for a game is simply too much if the consumer has no way to recoup some of that money. Especially if you're unsure whether you will like the game at all. And looking at some of the outrageous prices on XBL Marketplace, I'm not really confident Microsoft understands this.
The crux of the problem is price. $60 for a game is simply too much if the consumer has no way to recoup some of that money. Especially if you're unsure whether you will like the game at all. And looking at some of the outrageous prices on XBL Marketplace, I'm not really confident Microsoft understands this.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Wow, thanks, that puts Live into perspective.
I didn't have to pay more to buy additional things or repair things that were broken.
Good job.
Kev Kev
Member
Exactly my thoughts ATM.
Hell I might even be more inclined to get a Wii U since they will be on the cheap once the other big 2 release their consoles.
This sucks hard...
XANDER CAGE
Member
That's true, losing connection while playing a Steam game doesn't boot you out of it. However, we don't know for a fact how this Microsoft system will work. While Steam's DRM isn't technically "always on," it does require an internet connection and it also prevents you from trading or borrowing games.
I'm just saying that these are no longer concepts that make me balk at the idea of buying a console. I'll wait and see how the damn thing actually works before making calls like that.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Remember, you're the product now.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Always online DRM and no second hand market are absolutely not the same thing.
Steam is not always online DRM.
If you really think always online DRM is no big deal, you are delusional.
EDIT:
Yes, neither of which I have a problem with.
I have a huge problem with 'always online' DRM.
this article is very specific about the console only functioning when online.
YuriLowell
Member
After reading about it for 30 mins, it looks like a case called Vernor vs. Autodesk settled this argument a couple of years ago.
"The Ninth Circuit held that direct customers of a copyright owner, who reserves title to software copies and imposes use and transfer restrictions, are licensees of their copies rather than owners"
So yeah they could totally pull this off and be in the clear. They could also ban your account and you could lose access to all of your games.
I wouldn't be surprised if they start to charge a maintenance fee on your account like most software companies do.
Whoa now! That post was just too damn thoughtful! Stop it immediately!
Prices on Live for the 360 have little to do with prices on this new system. For all we know, we might see publishers actively using variable pricing on their titles for the system. Until we know more, it's hard to understand how all this fits together.
YuriLowell
Member
They won't try any variable pricing. This just allows them to charge 60 dollars for a longer amount of time.
This works on PC to an extent because the prices are almost always much cheaper and drop faster; buying a new game doesn't hurt as much if you're already paying a used price. And they look better and have infinitely more functionality if mods are involved.
Console games will still release at $60 retail and $60 on DD and they take longer to drop in price so already it's a bum deal. Not being able to trade in to blunt the impact of new game prices and having to stay online (not even Steam does this IF you log off properly) to play games is just bonus. Or anti-bonus, as it were.
It won't be hard to pass on this gen if this becomes the norm. PC will cover almost everything, and all the innovation is there anyway. The price of makingAAA AAAA games on the new consoles will ensure that most, not all, but most of them will be as Tomb Raidery-safe as possible. Watching from the sidelines won't be difficult.
Console games will still release at $60 retail and $60 on DD and they take longer to drop in price so already it's a bum deal. Not being able to trade in to blunt the impact of new game prices and having to stay online (not even Steam does this IF you log off properly) to play games is just bonus. Or anti-bonus, as it were.
It won't be hard to pass on this gen if this becomes the norm. PC will cover almost everything, and all the innovation is there anyway. The price of making
Well I have only one friend that plays games and is on Neogaf and he has a PS3 and a PC while I have a PC and a 3DS
What am I missing here? What value to Microsoft does resticting used game sales have, outside of thier own publishing/development revenue?
In other words, why would MS restrict the used game sales of EA, Activision, etc titles? Without complete exclusivity from these publishers, this would put them at a major disadvantage in the market place vs the PS4 (assuming that the PS4 didn't have similar restrictions), with NO up-side for MS.
Does that sound like something Microsoft would do?
In other words, why would MS restrict the used game sales of EA, Activision, etc titles? Without complete exclusivity from these publishers, this would put them at a major disadvantage in the market place vs the PS4 (assuming that the PS4 didn't have similar restrictions), with NO up-side for MS.
Does that sound like something Microsoft would do?
i3allistic
Member
You think launch day sales gonna take a hit with this crap? I mean people gonna just say "fuck it, i aint using $60 to see if the game is good" ..which means retailer not gonna stock more copies which equal loss for the developers?
Big Takeover
Member
I think people need to take a better look at what "no used games" means.
Here's what it doesn't mean:
- Can't trade in games for discounts on a different games.
There's no reason they couldn't allow users to relinquish their key to game X for savings on game Y from their online store.
- Can't rent games any more.
There's no reason they couldn't offer a subscription based rental service.
Their fight is with companies that deal in used games, not users. They can kill one while still giving other what it wants. You didn't actually want a used game anyway. What you want is a cheaper new game. No problem. It's a competitive market, they are trying to win you over after all.
Will it be better than the current system for users? Maybe not, but I think they'll make the proper concessions.
Here's what it doesn't mean:
- Can't trade in games for discounts on a different games.
There's no reason they couldn't allow users to relinquish their key to game X for savings on game Y from their online store.
- Can't rent games any more.
There's no reason they couldn't offer a subscription based rental service.
Their fight is with companies that deal in used games, not users. They can kill one while still giving other what it wants. You didn't actually want a used game anyway. What you want is a cheaper new game. No problem. It's a competitive market, they are trying to win you over after all.
Will it be better than the current system for users? Maybe not, but I think they'll make the proper concessions.
civilstrife
Member
I wouldn't put it past the enthusiast crowd to just eventually shut up and take it. Remember how angry everyone was at the beginning of this gen about paid DLC? "Next gen is terrible" was a meme and everything. Well, Publishers saw how easily we rolled over on that one, didn't they?
Fuck DRM.
We need some Users' Rights Management.
Fuck DRM.
We need some Users' Rights Management.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I dont think MS will do this. Its way too risky for them. There are many jurisdictions that prohibit this kind of resale maintenance and aside of the legal risks the consumers can just take other options as ps4 or wiiu,
Third parties might be on board initially but if the consumers dont jump in they will not make games for it.
Third parties might be on board initially but if the consumers dont jump in they will not make games for it.
Steve McQueen
Member
Stupid question...if we will not be able to play second-hand games on Durango and Orbis... will the prices of the games decrease?
ACH1LL3US
Member
It won't doom the console, did it doom PC gaming?
If both Sony and MS do it your really going to not play next gen games?
Your response is so melodramatic. Your stating such extremes that you more then likely wont follow. If you really were into gaming... then these new practices wouldn't deter you from it. Maybe curb how many games you buy but not deter you.
As for Edge... don't you think they are staking their rep on the line by putting this out there? It has already affected Gamestop's stock value and Forbes ran with their article too. So no.. this won't hurt their credibilty because for all intents and purposes this news will come to be true.
Great post.
Oh no, I agree with you. Just suggesting one development that would mitigate the loss of used games. It was an example.
Your not thinking this through - I"m not asking if they want a walled garden. I'm asking if they would GIVE the Activisions of the world the power of no used game sales on their system, FOR NOTHING IN RETURN...
Baconsammy
Banned
More first party new games sales = a lot more money. More third party new game sales = a lot more money (via licensing). No used game sales is a huge boon for third parties. Anything that's good for third parties is good for the console holder. There's a reason Nintendo is desperate to get third parties to support them.
samus4ever
Banned
Well, looks like I'm going back to Sony only next gen if this is true. I bet ebgames wont even let you trade in your old box to get credit on the 720. That's if they even sell it at all.
Seeing as every 3rd publisher I can think of has been asking for this, it would shock me if MS weren't doing it to appease them and get something in return for that.
NullPointer
Member
Unbelievable. You really went there.
LyleLanley
Banned
They patented some tech that would allow them to do this, but they've never said that they're actually going to use it.