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[Neo C.]

The thread is growing too fast, can't read all posts.

That said, the writing was on the wall years ago. MS and Sony have seen that gamers are fucking stupid and eat all the shit up when the games they want are there. Let's face it: Durango can be as anti-consumerish as EDGE said, there are still many people waiting for it and defend every misstep of MS. And for MS and Sony, this gen is a good opportunity to kill second-hand market together, because they have seen how happily gamers give away their consumer rights for desirable products.

 

[Vesper73]

Unbelievable. You really went there.

lol

 

[serplux]

I'm gonna call an American market crash if Sony and Microsoft both decide to go with these anti-consumer policies.

 

[miked808]

PC gamers should chime in and give their impressions on having been doing this for years.

When I buy a game on my PC I understand that I can only play it on my PC. When I buy an XBOX or Playstation game I expect to use my disc on whatever console I want.

 

[Forsythia]

It wouldn't affect me personally, but I agree that MS will fail hard if they implement this. Sony will win almost instantly when MS announces this 'feature'.

 

[Dominican Power]

You knew something more drastic was coming when they started charging people for online codes.

 

[Foffy]

Agreed, it's time. We're long overdue. It's probably for the best. It'll force everyone to get back to basics.

I like you.

 

[GraveRobberX]

How the hell does this work?

I mean what happens if your Internet goes out?

Verizon does do maintenance's from time to time, when I was with Time Warner it was almost a weekly 2-4 hour block drop

 

[Skilletor]

Microsoft at the start of this generation

Now

Pretty amazing how much the company has changed.

Blades were the best.

 

[Cheddahz]

Sure, you've never been able to sell a PC game, but you can get them for dirt cheap at launch and games usually are the price of a 12-pack of soda a couple of months after launch

With console games, it takes quite a whe for them to cheap and and that's the problem here, no way in hell am I going I pay $60 bucks for game that I won't be able to resell or even let a friend borrow it for a day or two

 

[RedNumberFive]

Unbelievable. You really went there.

I'm surprised it wasn't stated earlier.

 

[Psi]

Well, I guess I'll just camp out in the PC bunker while the console industry immolates itself.

 

[Interrobang]

It won't doom the console, did it doom PC gaming?

If both Sony and MS do it your really going to not play next gen games?

Your response is so melodramatic. Your stating such extremes that you more then likely wont follow. If you really were into gaming... then these new practices wouldn't deter you from it. Maybe curb how many games you buy but not deter you.

As for Edge... don't you think they are staking their rep on the line by putting this out there? It has already affected Gamestop's stock value and Forbes ran with their article too. So no.. this won't hurt their credibilty because for all intents and purposes this news will come to be true.

I hate the argument that if someone actually doesn't like these practices and decides not to stand for it then they were "never a gamer to begin with." If he loves gaming but doesn't like certain business practices, of course they will deter him from his hobby. That doesn't make him any less of a passionate gamer.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Your not thinking this through - I"m not asking if they want a walled garden. I'm asking if they would GIVE the Activisions of the world the power of no used game sales on their system, FOR NOTHING IN RETURN...

Any game runs on a console;
- b&m retail take 20% of initial sale, 100% of each subsequent sale
- MS take 30% console licencing fee
- Publisher takes 50% leftover and pays all of the associated logistics costs

Games only run through MS owned authentication servers
- DD means no b&M so no logistics costs
- MS take 30% console licencing fee, or shit, maybe even more to pay for that storefront
- Publisher takes 70% of every sale, and there are no sales happening they don't take a cut from

 

[bone_and_sinew]

Next-gen leaks have done their damndest to sound unappealing as fuck.

Reminds me of

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Here is the thing about all the comparisons to Steam.

I totally don't care!

I recognize the hypocrisy of, on a very fundamental level, Steam and used-game-blocking on consoles being similar and being okay with one but not the other. Don't give a shit. I don't want it on consoles. If you start including details (like that there are other options to Steam, a walled garden for Microsoft does not encourage price competition, that Microsoft makes profit off passive services like Live and does not need to entice you in to signing up), then the analogy falls apart all together, but still, don't care.

People can keep screaming "IT'S OKAY BECAUSE STEAM UNLESS YOU DON'T WANT TO BE 100% CONSISTENT ALL THE TIME," but let me be the first to say, fuck it. If your only defense of this shit is that I'm not consistent, then even you should realize what a fucking terrible idea this is.

 

[TRios Zen]

More first party new games sales = a lot more money. More third party new game sales = a lot more money (via licensing). No used game sales is a huge boon for third parties. Anything that's good for third parties is good for the console holder. There's a reason Nintendo is desperate to get third parties to support them.

I agree with this, but if your competitor offers the exact same product WITH the ability to buy used, how sustainable is your offering?

This only makes sense if both the PS4 and durango do this. If MS were to take this on, on their own, it would seem to be yet another check in the disadvantage column, for no quantifiable reason.

 

[Maxim726X]

They patented some tech that would allow them to do this, but they've never said that they're actually going to use it.

Ah.

Well it looks like, at the very least, both Sony and Microsoft consider this a viable option.

Oh well. Backlog is reaching legendary proportions as it is.

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

Microsoft at the start of this generation

Now

Pretty amazing how much the company has changed.

Oh man... I miss the first, fastest and best dashboard.

Now I see ads everywhere! Very often the new dash won't even load! Ugh.

 

[ThreeSixty]

To be honest this news isn't actually that world-shattering. Just because Microsoft (and Sony) are likely to be eliminating the pre-owned games market this doesn't necessarily mean you'll pay more for your games. I walked into GAME the other day and Halo 4 was £25 new. £23 used. Sonic Generations was £15 new. £13 used.

Retailers like GAME and GameStop are perfectly capable of making pricing affordable and competitive by simply marking down the prices of new games; something they're likely to execute with even greater intensity if the pre-owned market is gone. The point is games may not actually be that much more expensive. Yes they'll launch at full price but they'll be marked down after that and there really isn't that much pricing disparity between the two.

As for always online. Disastrous if true. Yes broadband is everywhere in America but Microsoft sells the Xbox all over the world where broadband quite simply isn't everywhere. I have a feeling the blocking pre-owned games part is true (same for Sony hence patenting the technology) but always online is incorrect and untrue.

 

[Maxim726X]

To be honest this news isn't actually that world-shattering. Just because Microsoft (and Sony) are likely to be eliminating the pre-owned games market this doesn't necessarily mean you'll pay more for your games. I walked into GAME the other day and Halo 4 was £25 new. £23 used. Sonic Generations was £15 new. £13 used.

Retailers like GAME and GameStop are perfectly capable of making pricing affordable and competitive by simply marking down the prices of new games; something they're likely to execute with even greater intensity if the pre-owned market is gone. The point is games may not actually be that much more expensive. Yes they'll launch at full price but they'll be marked down after that and there really isn't that much pricing disparity between the two.

As for always online. Disastrous if true. Yes broadband is everywhere in America but Microsoft sells the Xbox all over the world where broadband quite simply isn't everywhere. I have a feeling the blocking pre-owned games part is true (same for Sony hence patenting the technology) but always online is incorrect and untrue.

I buy games here religiously, and on Ebay as well.

This isn't just about used games stores, it's about all second hand sales.

 

[clav]

Writing was on the wall since forever.

Publishers and game devs have been asking for this feature since a used game sale means one less actual sale for them.

 

[elfinke]

No 7-day return policies for EBgames either I guess?

This won't come to pass, and if it does I can only imagine it will because the user numbers back it up. Someone at Microsoft has run the numbers on how many XBL accounts there are on how many separate individual 360 units, playing how many games online (Halo and CoD) and worked out that it is enough to sustain a console launch. Especially if the next console is launching with a subscriber model, as also rumoured.

Still, I don't particularly want an online only console. There is no mindshare space for such a thing - it is filled with online only iPads and PCs!

 

[Tomat]

Ball is in Sony's court now as far as I am concerned. If Sony allows offline to function and second hand games then I am on board, not doubt about it.

 

[bangai-o]

It's been done already.

i see. but xbla and all the content has never been tied to one device. yada yada

anyway. Wal Mart, Amazon, and of course gamestop would all have something to say about the new xbox doing this. and Amazon has already shown they they wont sell videogame hardware if they dont want to. A huge market of users that don't even have internet access is not something Microsoft would avoid. Unless they plan on putting 3g antenna in every console to verify drm, it is somewhat ridiculous that gaf believes it.

 

[SteeloDMZ]

Cheapassgamer must be on suicide watch with news like this one.

 

[J-Rzez]

What am I missing here? What value to Microsoft does resticting used game sales have, outside of thier own publishing/development revenue?

Does that sound like something Microsoft would do?

Well, MS may sell codes in which they add a little to their wallet from. And yes, it sounds exactly like something MS would do. All you have to do is look at XBL. You're essentially paying MS an additional royalty to be able to use the content on the disc that the developer put on there as part of the value/selling point of the game and potentially barring the devs from cashing in later with their DLC plans.

 

[clav]

Cheapassgamer must be on suicide watch with news like this one.

Gamefly on life support.

 

[Mxrz]

Stupid question...if we will not be able to play second-hand games on Durango and Orbis... will the prices of the games decrease?

Likely the opposite. With no cheaper competition, there isn't as much a need to decrease prices. Without used games taking up shelf space, there isn't as much need to push stock (See Walmart.)

 

[Davey Cakes]

The folks at Microsoft would have to be really dumb as to not think such an announcement would be a bomb of negativity.

If the rumors are true, then MS will have a good reason and they'll offer something sweet to compensate for it. They're not just going to let themselves get booed off the stage.

Maybe people are overreacting.

 

[Mike M]

*Sigh*

I guess it's time to build a gaming PC or just give up video gaming once I work my way through my backlog. I will never be on board for this bullshit.

 

[Mesoian]

To be honest this news isn't actually that world-shattering. Just because Microsoft (and Sony) are likely to be eliminating the pre-owned games market this doesn't necessarily mean you'll pay more for your games. I walked into GAME the other day and Halo 4 was £25 new. £23 used. Sonic Generations was £15 new. £13 used.

That...doesn't make any sense, it's not like GAME or gamestop are defining what the industry standard is. If anything, this gives publishers the ability to increase prices and keep them high for longer amounts of time. Look at the difference between prices on XBLA versus prices on steam. THAT'S the comparison we're likely to be making over the first few months if this is true, as Microsoft rarely puts things on sale, and if they do, Steam's sale prices are still dramatically less.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Unbelievable. You really went there.

Yes, I did.

If you enjoying gaming and want to play next gen games, you can either buy a gaming pc or get the new MS or Sony console. If you don't like DRM or not being able to sell the games what are saying? You wont game anymore?

In all seriousness if you want to play next gen games were gonna have to deal with these practices.. whether we like them or not.

 

[Einbroch]

No GameFly means no purchase. Period. That's fucking insane. I'm actually mad.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Cheapassgamer must be on suicide watch with news like this one.

Gamefly on life support.

Mom & Pop shops = distant memory ; ;

Also Redbox we hardly knew ye

 

[Wind's Howling]

Always online? Not a chance, not one. No second-hand games? There goes a huge amount of gamers buying your precious Xbox, Microsoft. If all of this is true they are just destroying themselves straight out of the market. The current economy does not make 60 buck games a welcome package for a lot of people these days.

 

[sixghost]

To be honest this news isn't actually that world-shattering. Just because Microsoft (and Sony) are likely to be eliminating the pre-owned games market this doesn't necessarily mean you'll pay more for your games. I walked into GAME the other day and Halo 4 was £25 new. £23 used. Sonic Generations was £15 new. £13 used.

Retailers like GAME and GameStop are perfectly capable of making pricing affordable and competitive by simply marking down the prices of new games; something they're likely to execute with even greater intensity if the pre-owned market is gone. The point is games may not actually be that much more expensive. Yes they'll launch at full price but they'll be marked down after that and there really isn't that much pricing disparity between the two.

As for always online. Disastrous if true. Yes broadband is everywhere in America but Microsoft sells the Xbox all over the world where broadband quite simply isn't everywhere. I have a feeling the blocking pre-owned games part is true (same for Sony hence patenting the technology) but always online is incorrect and untrue.

So after the main price competition for new games is gone (used games), you believe prices will drop... faster. Can you point to a single economic principle that support that idea?

Gamestop is already closing tons of stores while the used game market is extremely healthy. Their profit margin for new games is garbage. If they were forced into direct competition with companies like Walmart, they are done for.

 

[clav]

Mom & Pop shops = distant memory ; ;

Also Redbox we hardly knew ye

This will definitely kill Gamestop since they love the used game market so much.

I thought GAF hates that store.

 

[TRios Zen]

Well, MS may sell codes in which they add a little to their wallet from. And yes, it sounds exactly like something MS would do. All you have to do is look at XBL. You're essentially paying MS an additional royalty to be able to use the content on the disc that the developer put on there as part of the value/selling point of the game and potentially barring the devs from cashing in later with their DLC plans.

I'm not arguing that MS isn't a for profit company; I'm arguing that THEY are. Putting their system at a competitive disadvantage vis-a-vis their closest competitor with no thought out way of securing a postivie cash flow from the move does NOT seem like something MS would do to me. I respect your right to disagree with me.

 

[boredofcanada]

Can't GameStop and Best Buy sue over this? Especially GameStop.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Here is the thing about all the comparisons to Steam.

I totally don't care!

I recognize the hypocrisy of, on a very fundamental level, Steam and used-game-blocking on consoles being similar and being okay with one but not the other. Don't give a shit. I don't want it on consoles. If you start including details (like that there are other options to Steam, a walled garden for Microsoft does not encourage price competition, that Microsoft makes profit off passive services like Live and does not need to entice you in to signing up), then the analogy falls apart all together, but still, don't care.

People can keep screaming "IT'S OKAY BECAUSE STEAM UNLESS YOU DON'T WANT TO BE 100% CONSISTENT ALL THE TIME," but let me be the first to say, fuck it. If your only defense of this shit is that I'm not consistent, then even you should realize what a fucking terrible idea this is.

I'm not saying that Steam is a comparison, I'm saying that after 7 years of using Steam I no longer think "well, hell no" when companies suggest moving away from physical copies and used games. Naturally I'll wait and see how companies actually implement it. It's just that these days it's no longer an instant deterrent for me.

Steam has shown me that it can be done well, and if it can be done well elsewhere I'd be up for it.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

If Sony is doing the same i will just skip the next gen.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

They don't have the balls to go through with this

 

[clav]

Can't GameStop and Best Buy sue over this? Especially GameStop.

No. Gamestop, BestBuy, and Amazon are at the mercy of the console creator.

Bet you people are OK with your paid TV monthly rate going up because the cable and satellite services are at mercy with content providers (e.g. Disney [ESPN], Fox Sports).

 

[dreamer3kx]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is true, MS knows how to kill a good thing.

 

[Camp Lo]

Mom & Pop shops = distant memory ; ;

Also Redbox we hardly knew ye

NOT LIKE THIS

LAWD

 

[Roo]

They don't have the balls to go through with this

lol
just watch

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I refuse to believe they'll do that...

I mean...is too stupid to even be true.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Can't GameStop and Best Buy sue over this? Especially GameStop.

Unfair practices and Monopoly on game sales?

lol
just watch

I neither underestimate the stuff Sony or Microsoft will do it's funny the amount of people that do.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Something tells me "always online" means you will need to be online to activate the game. It really would be suicide to force everyone to always be online no matter what. As far as a second hand used games market goes, that blows because I love trading or selling my old games that I dont play anymore...