bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
You're in the UK though judging by the currency you posted. Not exactly the best example since UK is a gaming wasteland nowadays.
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EDGE: The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray and new kinect
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
soundscream
Member
The only way I think it could work is if it's tied the game with your account on the first boot up. There have been plenty times my service has gone down, and the thought of not being able to play is quite disturbing.
I pray you are correct!
BruiserBear
Banned
If anyone does, it's Microsoft.
This is the same company that denied the Xbox 360 had hardware problems for two years.
Davey Cakes
Member
Probably not, but it certainly changes their situation in terms of games sales.
I'm also left wondering what will happen to game rental services. Obviously we aren't talking about bankrupting them, right? Maybe there will be another way to rent games.
Microsoft at the start of this generation
Now
Pretty amazing how much the company has changed.
Having a significant app ecosystem with worthwhile programs will probably be a major focus for these new consoles.
You're right. It doesn't effect the hardcore market at all.
it does effect the casual market, specifically ones where parents are buying games for their children on the cheap here and there. When that becomes more difficult and suddenly a simple treat is a 60 dollar en-devour every time, we'll see the consumption of games on a whole lower dramatically. I know quite a few families who do not buy new games for their children, they'll just pick up a few 10 or 20 dollars games here and there, THAT market, which is a big one, is libel to simply disappear.
But yeah, the hardcore market, as much as they're bitching, don't really matter in this equation. Shit, I bought Ni No Kuni digitally the other day because it was too hard to find in stores and I didn't wanna deal with the run around. However, that means that pretty much everything from this point, XBLA, X360, Xbox Indies, MUST be backwards compatible. There's no way that Microsoft or anyone else can get away with saying that you're simply buying a licence with a timer on it and when that timer expires, so does your game, and expect to not have a major public outcry. And unfortunately, that seems to be what Microsoft doesn't understand about this whole thing, if their handling of lost IP licensing is any indication.
Goldrusher
Member
My friends don't charge me anything to let me play their games. And vice versa.
If companies like GAME and GameStop are the problem, ban them from selling used games. Not the ability for the consumer to play them.
This is why people hate it when Microsoft is a leader in any market they're in because they do things that people don't like. It's always better when they're the underdog but I can see Sony following suit as well because of pressure from the publishers but maybe to not this extent.
How can you enforce that?
A clause like this will translate that second-hand transactions are illegal.
No. But they can opt not to sell it.
Which is still important.
You can't. that's impossible.
ACH1LL3US
Member
How can he be a passionate gamer if he isn't gaming anymore? Many posts say if both go this route they wont game anymore.... Really.. over not being able to sell your used games or not be able to buy them used? Its $60.00, if thats a huge amount to part with then being picky about what games you buy may have to happen.
I don't like these new practices that will more then likely happen, but I won't say somthing extreme like " I am not gaming anymore if true". If anything I just wont buy as many games. At the end of the day I still want to play next gen games and I wont stay away because of this and I know most if not all that are saying the opposite won't stay away either.
Outtrigger888
Member
If true, wouldn't this be a big blow to gamefly? Could they work out some new system?
Also this seems like the key transition to going all digital next gen after ps4/720
Also this seems like the key transition to going all digital next gen after ps4/720
It depends on the implementation. With Ubisoft's games, yes, always online DRM was absolutely terrible. With Starcraft 2 on the other hand, it didn't bother me at all.
Also, from that quote you posted I wouldn't immediately assume that a Steam-like DRM is out of the question. After all, an internet connection is required for Steam to function as well (just not at all times, and not in offline mode.)
In a way I have to agree with this. Even if both the next xbox and PS4 have always on, anti-used measures, I'll still end up buying both to play games like Uncharted and Halo.
AzureSkies
Member
Unless of course, the PS4 requires it too.
Pristine_Condition
Member
LOL.
A lotta tough talk coming down from a lot of people who will end up being the first in line to buy the next Halo or Forza...
Wait until you hear Microsoft's whole strategy before you freak out. If they've managed to sell people on paying for online play for so long, I'll bet they've got a sales pitch for this and other services that'll put everyone talking tough now right back into the Live ecosystem, with their wallets out, saying "please take my money."
A lotta tough talk coming down from a lot of people who will end up being the first in line to buy the next Halo or Forza...
Wait until you hear Microsoft's whole strategy before you freak out. If they've managed to sell people on paying for online play for so long, I'll bet they've got a sales pitch for this and other services that'll put everyone talking tough now right back into the Live ecosystem, with their wallets out, saying "please take my money."
Space Runaway
Member
Well, this sucks. Sony is sure to be doing something similar as well.
This would destroy gamefly, and redbox games, and any online or brick and mortar service still renting games.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I feel like people saying "This is okay on Steam because the games are cheaper" are exhibiting the very reason stuff like this happens. If you really were opposed to this it wouldn't matter if the game were $1 or $100. The fact that your principles are conditional tells corporations that you can pretty much be talked into anything. Why wouldn't MS and Sony keep pushing and pushing, consumers have shown to be pushovers when it comes to this stuff. We bitched when games went to $60 but still bought them. We bitched about horse armor and subsequent DLC releases but still bought them. We bitched about online passes but still bought them. The anger people display here on a 70 page message board thread is empty, because come Feb. 20, and then subsequently whenever MS reveals their next console, and beyond that E3 and the eventual launches, there is going to be far more than 70 pages worth of gifs and "MY BODY IS READY" and "DAY ONE!!!" posts. The reason this, and the various other industry developments over the last few years, are happening is because we as a whole have told the companies that we are fine going down this road, and the ones who really aren't are simply a small minority who they can live without.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Which enforcing would be illegal across the EU as we have laws that say we have a right to resell items that we legally own.
For me, I like Steam as it's kept all my games in one central library that I've owned since 2003. Since 2003 I've changed HDDs several times and had 1 or 2 complete System Rebuilds. My library has remained and grown since then. I don't always buy games Day 1 from Steam, however I do tend to spend far too much during the sales as the prices are crazy. Amazon.com, GreenManGaming and other DD have helped, as they have their own sales and deals, which are great.
I'm not counting this out happening with Consoles, but I'm in such a cynical mood right now I can't see it happening. PC Gaming has always been the cheaper for me, and I don't see that changing. I'm just a little confused with the Steam Comparisons. Yes, great, PC games since 2000 for the most part have always been locked and registered to your PC with no resale allowed. That's never been the case for Consoles, and that's why some people buy consoles, as they don't have/want a gaming PC, but still want a cheap alternative to game with (2nd hand games), this seemingly is removing that option for those guys.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it just said the Xbox is always online. That doesn't necessarily translate to always-on DRM. It could be just the same as current XBLA and and Games on Demand games where it gets tied to a system (for anyone to use) and an account (for use anywhere if signed in). That system is fairly un-oppressive, IMO. I think it's pretty fair.
I think this is way too early and incomplete to judge how far away from Steam this is.
I think this is way too early and incomplete to judge how far away from Steam this is.
Baconsammy
Banned
Unless by doing it nets them publisher support above and beyond what they're giving Sony, in which case it gets them a huge check in the positive category. Imagine (and this is just a hypothetical) if CoD or GTA was a timed exclusive for Microsoft. That's enormous.
I rarely buy second hand, but me and my friends swap games at work fairly often. Great way to try a game someone else might be into that I have no intention of buying myself. That being said, if the pricing and deals were comparable to Steam and Amazon (they won't be) and online play is free (it won't be) I probably wouldn't notice much of a difference. My stuff is always connected to the internet, even if I'm not a big fan of online gaming.
More concerned about a bloated OS, rigid restrictions for developers and doubling down on Kinect honestly. I have very little interest investing in a box that focuses on things I like least about the 360 right now.
More concerned about a bloated OS, rigid restrictions for developers and doubling down on Kinect honestly. I have very little interest investing in a box that focuses on things I like least about the 360 right now.
Fox Mulder
Member
They can just choose to not carry the consoles, since they don't make much money on them anyways. One of the reasons why digital games on xbla and PSN are so expensive is because of consideration to retail, as consoles need the retail presence to survive.
ACH1LL3US
Member
I understand what your saying, but look at it from Sony and Microsofts point of view, those families that just buy used games don't help MS or Sony or the devs or the publishers. It helps gamestop. If those gamers that ONLY buy used games or mostly used games decide not to buy a system that Sony and MS are probably going to take a loss on anyway... I don't think the companies will miss consumers like that.
It sucks but that is how they see it, used games they get NO cut on.
samus4ever
Banned
Well, we can look at it on the bright side. We are potentially saving 400 plus dollars =(
Huw_Dawson
Member
More money into the hands of publishers is a good thing, but this will kill GAME stone dead if true.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
StarCraft 2 doesn't have always online DRM.
Diablo 3 does.
Diablo 3 is a game I will therefore never play.
1) Publishers want to kill used games
2) MS is desperate for an edge and willing to give big incentives for publishers to provide exclusives for Durango
3) MS agrees to block used games.
4) we are here
5) Sony refuses to support blocking use games (perhaps partly due to Japanese regional requirements) and doesn't get the major third party titles until 6 months after launch. MS gains huge traction, Sony is forced to capitulate to get third party titles and brings in the same restrictions, but mS already has a strong lead in market share
5b) Sony refuses to support blocking used games. Third parties give MS timed exclusivity. There is a huge backlash, consumers boycott MS and publishers and buy PS4 instead. Mid-tier publishers and indies do very well as they are still supporting PS4. MS and publishers are forced to back down, but Sony has a strong lead in market share.
Surely Sony would see (5a) coming and be forced to do the same as MS to keep publishers on board. They might like to think (5b) would happen but is it a risk they are prepared to take?
The people who bitched about games being 60 dollars were too young to remember when games were 100 dollars.
You're confusing fluctuation in the market with some totalitarian regime taking away your rights as a gamer. This has been in the works for a long time, what we need to save our complaints for is whether or not the powers that be actually do this correctly or not.
People made the same arguments about Steam when it was new, and now everyone loves it because of the way it's managed. And that's what will deem whether this is successful or not for Microsoft, how it's being managed, and history has shown that they are notoriously terrible about managing their online presence in such a way that people want to use them as a storefront.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Sure. I'll make the difference back on used games.
tinfoilhatman
all of my posts are my avatar
They sure as hell don't need GameStop to survive , Walmart, Target and Best Buy will be happy to continue doing what their doing today and without all the preorder sales pressure crap.
The Albatross
Member
That's it! I'm going PC only
where there haven't been used games ever
B1gg_Randall
Member
Really?!?
KojiKnight
Member
I had to respond to this, but I'm not sure exactly the wording I want to use...
Let me put it this way, I don't think you (not you specifically, but rather anyone) can truly be upset if you're willing to still buy games from a company that is doing something you view as amoral or just plain sleezy.
I think people (on this forum especially) forget that video games are just entertainment. There are always better things you can do with your money and free time, so if you can't even muster up the will to not buy these new systems or games if you don't like what you're doing, then it hardly seems like you're upset at all. Rather, it seems like just picking a fight with your shadow.
antiquegamer
Member
I am not going to quit gaming but I surely will cut down on my gaming on console just as I did for PC. I despite Steam and used it only because it's necessary evil. I have no doubt both Microsoft and Sony will implemented this and eventually this will be the norm going forward just as it is for Steam, iOS and Google Play. Now if we get price decrease it might help but knowing how greedy publishers are, I doubt this is going to happen until the market bottom out.
I believe the recent market slowdown is not just because we are at the tail end of the console generation but also because of the more proliferate use of anti-consumer measure like on-line code, contents removal and other scheme which turn many consumers off from buying games especially those that are on the budget. I always dread the days of digital download and DRM, which is essentially game rental disguise as ownership of contents.
In many cases, it's ok because the games are sold digital-only at a lower price, so consumers get some benefit for the anti-used game marketplace. Take Virtua Fighter- without DD, there's no way it would have been sold at all after VF5 bombaed on 360. Just one of many examples. In the case of the $60 AAA game with $20+ of DLC, it does fine even with used sales, and we all know the prices will go up not down, so consumers are seeing no benefit, this is not win-win, it's win-lose, which is why you're seeing so much hate.
It's less of an issue for me than many folks, but I do think the end result of such a policy will be the complete death of retail for non-AAA games next gen, and many of those folks will move to PC, where the market conditions are much more favorable. I'm not upset, especially if this isn't bait and switch, but it would impact my value of the console, enough to where I wouldn't find it worth the money. Now, if VF6 wows me in 2-3 years time, I might change my tune, but by then the consoles may have suffered so much it gets a PC port instead or as well.
Big Takeover
Member
It's not imposible at all.
Terminate your COD6 key for $20 off next purchase from Xbox Live store.
You save money, no one else makes money. Done, Done.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Yes there have.
price difference..
Interrobang
Member
No, it doesn't. It's been shown time and time again how a used sale =/= one less new sale. When games are purchased they have been purchased. Someone buying a used game doesn't take away from that purchase. If a company sells X number of games and someone buys a used version it is not X-1.
And if I love football but don't support the NFL's decision to support SOPA, am I less of a football fan for not watching the Superbowl?
That is really not fair. I love gaming and it's my only hobby, but I have beliefs and I don't like where the industry is headed with DRM, digital distribution, etc.. This is more about no more used games, I don't buy used games nor do I trade my games in. This is about the landscape as a whole and where it is headed. If someone doesn't support that, their passion shouldn't be called into question. If anything, they're more passionate to give up something they love for what they believe in.
a secret-boss
Banned
no more gamefly
I know they are too a "for profit company". But you only need to look at XBL to see that these rumors are entirely plausible. They may sell additional "pass cards" (with a portion going to the publisher) or worse yet, pack in one/two additional "pass cards" in the box and jack up the price of the games. They'd tell publishers they'll handle the production, marketing, and distribution of these cards, but they get a cut of the pie. Publishers won't have to do a thing and make a little bit of extra money from this while MS handles the dirty work and also reaps the benefits.