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Elite Dangerous: Horizons |OT| Just scratching the surface

Yup. You and the pilot can both be flying SLF while AI controls your ship and your third crew member is the Gunner.

Still miffed they haven't address why the other roles (what were they--Tactical and Systems?) were eliminated. Having a player control an SLF is fine, but that feels like such a copout compared to creating a unique role.
 
The whole ship can be equipped with cameras and the ships board computer is generating the image. Voila! It's nearly 300 years in the future, there should be real time rendering/raytracing improvements :D

Modern cars have this shit. Look, it's a top down 3rd person view of your car generated from 4 cameras on the body. B...b...but my immersion!

kenzie-wheels-volvo-s90-overhead-camera-viewjpg.jpg
 

DrBo42

Member
Yup. You and the pilot can both be flying SLF while AI controls your ship and your third crew member is the Gunner.

Still miffed they haven't address why the other roles (what were they--Tactical and Systems?) were eliminated. Having a player control an SLF is fine, but that feels like such a copout compared to creating a unique role.

I'm talking about Helm keeping ship control while both multi-crew players get into fighters. You're making it sound like that's not possible. Let's forget about the gunner role, it's crap.
 
I'm talking about Helm keeping ship control while both multi-crew players get into fighters. You're making it sound like that's not possible. Let's forget about the gunner role, it's crap.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure "two player controlled SLF" = Helm player + Fighter Con player. I don't think two Fight Con stations can be occupied but I could be wrong.
 

Burny

Member
Yeah, I'm pretty sure "two player controlled SLF" = Helm player + Fighter Con player. I don't think two Fight Con stations can be occupied but I could be wrong.

Nah, I seem to remember them pretty explicitly stating that both crewmembers can use fighters. Was even in the 2.3 dev update iirc.
 
Nah, I seem to remember them pretty explicitly stating that both crewmembers can use fighters. Was even in the 2.3 dev update iirc.

Looks like you're right, as long as the ship has enough:

Michael Books 2.3 Dev Update said:
The fighter con role lets a crewmember launch and control a fighter, even if the helm has already launched a fighter using NPC crew. This allows multicrew ships to have two fighters active at a time. In addition, if the ship has enough fighters, both crewmembers can take on the fighter con role, meaning three human controlled ships can be flying at the same time.
 

Sibylus

Banned
No one wants to engage in non-hyperbolic and topics devoid of melodrama.

Does anyone remember if having two players in the Fighter Con role is possible or if they mentioned it? If not...that's not so good.

Yes, two people can fly fighters simultaneously (provided ship large enough to fit two crewmembers). They attempted to show it off on stream yesterday, but keep encountering server disconnection issues with the 2nd fighter pilot.
 

DrBo42

Member
Yes, two people can fly fighters simultaneously (provided ship large enough to fit two crewmembers). They attempted to show it off on stream yesterday, but keep encountering server disconnection issues with the 2nd fighter pilot.

Well they were attempting AI pilot + crew member pilot. They never attempted 2 in the fighter con role. Always wanted to have Barry as gunner to show that off.
 

Volimar

Member
Can you imagine a player owned capital ship with like 10 crew manning turrets and controlling fighters? Player based capital vs. capital would be aces.
 

DrBo42

Member
Can you imagine a player owned capital ship with like 10 crew manning turrets and controlling fighters? Player based capital vs. capital would be aces.

I hope the game gets there in a few years. As lame as the Gunner role is, it opens the possibility up.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Can you imagine a player owned capital ship with like 10 crew manning turrets and controlling fighters? Player based capital vs. capital would be aces.

Fighters? Dream big. I want to be able to store and launch Anacondas, Imperial Cutters, and Federal Corvettes.
 

DrBo42

Member
I just want us to get to a point where two powerful player factions have a capital ship fight that is the culmination of a huge war between the two. Multiple fighter squadrons and corvettes launching out of each and whoever wins is poised to take the system.

Core Dynamics Farragut-Class Battlecruisers represent the cutting edge in military technology. A single FCB can carry several squadrons of Federal Fighters and multiple Federal Corvettes across hundreds of light years without any difficulty.
 

Widge

Member
I found the issue with my control woes. An errant 360 USB converter was causing all my problems, full control resumed.

I'm now in a system with a community goal, having passed by a system with a huge gushing blue star that overheated me severely!
 

Burny

Member
I just want small ships to become relevant again. My courier is collecting so much dust lmao.

As I said, Rock Paper Scissors. It's a prerequisite for interstingly structured missions and probably the only possibility to keep the small ships interesting for the players who've progresssed past them. Due to the generic ship outfitting, all we have now are scissors in various sizes.

Unless there is a hard capability required for missions certain small ships have that the bigger ones don't, they're useless. E.g. a hypothetical sneaking up on Asteroid base of opposing faction mission with a low emission signature ship and only small ships can even reach the required signature. Or bombing of some base and only the big ships can provide the required bomb load.


All hypothetical, all rather expected but intersting scenarios for simulation-like games, but all impossible for as long as there's only scissor-power creep.
 

Sibylus

Banned
As I said, Rock Paper Scissors. It's a prerequisite for interstingly structured missions and probably the only possibility to keep the small ships interesting for the players who've progresssed past them. Due to the generic ship outfitting, all we have now are scissors in various sizes.

Unless there is a hard capability required for missions certain small ships have that the bigger ones don't, they're useless. E.g. a hypothetical sneaking up on Asteroid base of opposing faction mission with a low emission signature ship and only small ships can even reach the required signature. Or bombing of some base and only the big ships can provide the required bomb load.


All hypothetical, all rather expected but intersting scenarios for simulation-like games, but all impossible for as long as there's only scissor-power creep.

I would kill for Tie Fighter-styled missions. Perhaps making gimbals and auto-turrets less accurate against smaller targets would help?
 

Widge

Member
Kind of like Gran Turismo's vehicle/class specific cups. I'd love to see that happen. One where someone wants to hire a wing of Eagles or something to do a specific mission. AI wings would be really useful for the solo player.
 

Burny

Member
I would kill for Tie Fighter-styled missions. Perhaps making gimbals and auto-turrets less accurate against smaller targets would help?

It's up to Frontier to decide... Any measures to push balance into a R-P-S direction would have side effects on general PvP balance (in this case likely upending hte whole thing completely) and I'm not sure they're willing ot go that way. If they were to go for a "realistic" R-P-S style balance, small fighters would actually be hard counters to the behemoths that are the three big Cs: 'Conda, Cutter, Corvette. That won#t go down well with costing a billion on outfitting and invaluable life hours in mind-numbing grind.

What I could see is missions using ship capabilities or even giving certain ship types the capabilities, that are exclusive to the mission and or mandating a ship type + giving you a certain equipment for the duration of that mission. E.g. "military missile" mounted under the ship's wing only for the duration of the mission, that deals considerable damage to bases/capital ships, but is not available for general play, while requiring a certain range of military style fighter ships (that are designed to fit the missile mounting, to hav a lore excuse).

That could lead to Tie-Fighter style missions, but it would require actual somewhat more tightly scripted mission design and not having generic courier mission types designed for the lowest common denominator ship. Edit: I could also see missions outright giving you the required ship for the mission's duration. That would mostly only fit military style missions, but those it'd fit well, because a "bring your own ship" military actually raises more eyebrows than one that puts their recruits into its own dedicated military ships.
 

Sibylus

Banned
It's up to Frontier to decide... Any measures to push balance into a R-P-S direction would have side effects on general PvP balance and I'm not sure they're willing ot go that way.

What I could see is missions using ship capabilities that are exclusive to the mission and or mandating a ship type + giving you a certain equipment for the duration of that mission. Essentially giving ships certain capabilities only or mostly relevant to missions. E.g. "military missile" mounted under the ship's wing only for the duration of the mission, that deals considerable damage to bases/capital ships, but is not available for general play, while requiring a certain range of military style fighter ships (that are designed to fit the missile mounting, to go for a lore excuse).


That could lead to Tie fighter style missions, but it would require actual somewhat more tightly scripted mission design and not having generic courier mission types designed for the lowest common denominator ship.

That could work, yup. Would any of the CQC maps lend themselves to being used for scripted missions?
 

Burny

Member
That could work, yup. Would any of the CQC maps lend themselves to being used for scripted missions?

IMO, but scripted missions on deathmatch maps don't work that well. That's like the reverse of Mario Kart 8's baloon mode on racetracks. :p They might reuse assets, but with the addition of non-spaceport structures, they are already adding a variety of similar structures.
 

Widge

Member
Being a bit Star Trek about things here, is there anything along the lines of spacial anomalies in this? Just envisioning things like "rescue trapped ship from strange nebula" type missions.
 

Spuck-uk

Banned
Really impressed by the progress this has made since launch. shows what you can do with realistic goals and a good understanding og long term goals.

To contrast, the ongoing joke that is Star citizen.
 
As I said, Rock Paper Scissors. It's a prerequisite for interstingly structured missions and probably the only possibility to keep the small ships interesting for the players who've progresssed past them. Due to the generic ship outfitting, all we have now are scissors in various sizes.

Unless there is a hard capability required for missions certain small ships have that the bigger ones don't, they're useless. E.g. a hypothetical sneaking up on Asteroid base of opposing faction mission with a low emission signature ship and only small ships can even reach the required signature. Or bombing of some base and only the big ships can provide the required bomb load.


All hypothetical, all rather expected but intersting scenarios for simulation-like games, but all impossible for as long as there's only scissor-power creep.
EVE Online has missions which are tailored for specific ship sizes, and since you can't just roll in with a giant pwnmobile and destroy everything in a second they are quite interesting to play. It just takes a lot of work to properly balance a mission that way, and then provide enough variety of them that they're interesting to look for and do.
 

Sibylus

Banned
IMO, but scripted missions on deathmatch maps don't work that well. That's like the reverse of Mario Kart 8's baloon mode on racetracks. :p They might reuse assets, but with the addition of non-spaceport structures, they are already adding a variety of similar structures.

Fair points all. I'm imagining the mission maps they could make and unghhhhhhhh
invoker-romance.gif


Asteroid Base assaults. Coronasphere interceptions. Black Hole stealth slingshots. Espionage cargo drops/retrievals. Starport raids.
 

DrBo42

Member
Being a bit Star Trek about things here, is there anything along the lines of spacial anomalies in this? Just envisioning things like "rescue trapped ship from strange nebula" type missions.
No. There are no effects in space like storms or radiation that affect ships. It's all just cosmetic. Well, except for black holes causing heat damage or white dwarfs/neutron stars potentially crushing your ship while trying to get a jump boost from them.

There are distress call missions but they're either just combat or a ship is out of fuel. And you need special equipment to help the latter.
 

Burny

Member
And you need special equipment to help the latter.

This mission type kind sounds like a treat for the fuel rats and like auto-ignore for anybody else. Limpets are already convoluted module-wasters for anything but fuel rats and miners. How many are going to carry around a bunch of fuel limpets by chance for (edit:) an eccentric mission?


May I introduce the MS Duckface:

MS Space Duckface said:
highresscreenshot_201n2ulk.png


highresscreenshot_201zju0i.png


The cockpit (bridges rather) of these things is comically large. Viewed from the side, there could nearly two humans standing on top of each other in it.

ms_durckface_cockpit8guzk.png


Needs more multi-basking:
highresscreenshot_20131ju0.png


Edit: Damn, the boost sounds like a hoarse pod racer from Star Wars...
 

DrBo42

Member
This mission type kind sounds like a treat for the fuel rats and like auto-ignore for anybody else. Limpets are already convoluted module-wasters for anything but fuel rats and miners. How many are going to carry around a bunch of fuel limpets by chance for anb eccentric?
It's just bad design. The controllers shouldn't be different types to equip in a load out, they should be programmed on the fly. Have it be a drop down like active/inactive/repair in module menu and give it a programming time (like turning a shield cell on). Instantly kills controller module bloat and makes it far more useful. Who am I to say anything though. I don't have the breakout hit HAZE on my resume.
 

Manzoon

Banned
It's just bad design. The controllers shouldn't be different types to equip in a load out, they should be programmed on the fly. Have it be a drop down like active/inactive/repair in module menu and give it a programming time (like turning a shield cell on). Instantly kills controller module bloat and makes it far more useful. Who am I to say anything though. I don't have the breakout hit HAZE on my resume.

That seems like a better way of utilizing limpets. I wish that if you didn't have them on you, you could just awkwardly align cargo scoops or something like that and dump fuel into another ship. Make it finicky but possible.
 
Back on that fed grind, I didn’t realize I was still six ranks from Rear Admiral though…

Doing the Col 285 Sector YF-M C8-8 and Niu Hsing route and it’s been good so far.
 

Burny

Member
It's just bad design. The controllers shouldn't be different types to equip in a load out, they should be programmed on the fly. Have it be a drop down like active/inactive/repair in module menu and give it a programming time (like turning a shield cell on). Instantly kills controller module bloat and makes it far more useful. Who am I to say anything though. I don't have the breakout hit HAZE on my resume.

That actually sounds like a fun and sensible limpet implementation. One limpet module, carrying reusable limpets as "ammo" (think fighters) that can be programmed as needed and are only spend if destroyed, either by destructive emplyoment (hatch breaker, prospector)and can otherwise be collected and refueld again from the module. The cargo limpets being consumables and limpets generally being cargo is still worth a major facepalm for me. The size of the module should determine the amount of carried and concurrently usable limpets.
 

E-flux

Member
I started my way back from the core, invigorated by the upcoming patch, i did a fly up from the galactic plane and started heading towards the bubble, views a few 2000 lightyears up are amazing.
 
I've had this game for years but never gave it a serious try until last week. I've been playing exclusively in VR since, and I've got close to 30 hours in the game already. This game just clicked for me in a way I never expected it to.

There might be an impulse ordered HOTAS waiting for me when I get home from work today as well. Guess it's only money.
 
holy moly, fuel scooping is boring, even with a class A fuel scoop, it's probably the worst part of the game for me.

Yup, I always get a A scoop no matter what. Without one it takes forever. I also try to fill up when ever possible so I don't have to do huge scoops.

Fuel scooping!
Warning taking heat damage!
Fuel scooping complete!
 

Donos

Member
Are there any new info about the PS4 version? Is this still coming or cancelled? I think i read something 2-3 month ago that this is stil on track for 2017. Since Sony doesn't want to make a AAA Colony Wars i take what i get with of Space games. (hope this doesn't come off as port begging)
 
Thanks for the heads up on the decals.

I wish we had a global chat. If Ram Tah can send me messages about the ruins from a dozen systems away then we should have a galactic CB to talk to other CMDRs if we want. It's completely a use it if you want it, ignore it if you don't thing, so I'm sure the community is against it completely.



holy moly, fuel scooping is boring, even with a class A fuel scoop, it's probably the worst part of the game for me.

It's awful and I hope they rework it, along with anything else that is unacceptably tedious or boring. There is *nothing* satisfying or fun about sitting and waiting for fuel to refill. I don't see any reason why fuel scoop speed, across the board, shouldn't be doubled (at least).

Same for jump range, really. Again, nothing fun about jumping over and over. I don't see any harm that could come from doubling it. It's a QoL improvement with no negatives, esp since it's been shown that higher jump ranges can actually make exploration more enticing and less boring.

That seems like a better way of utilizing limpets. I wish that if you didn't have them on you, you could just awkwardly align cargo scoops or something like that and dump fuel into another ship. Make it finicky but possible.

Yeah, I remember when the collector drones were first discussed. Lots of "WTF why" from the community.

This mission type kind sounds like a treat for the fuel rats and like auto-ignore for anybody else. Limpets are already convoluted module-wasters for anything but fuel rats and miners. How many are going to carry around a bunch of fuel limpets by chance for (edit:) an eccentric mission?


May I introduce the MS Duckface:




Edit: Damn, the boost sounds like a hoarse pod racer from Star Wars...

Daaaaamn, looking good. That interior...!
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
holy moly, fuel scooping is boring, even with a class A fuel scoop, it's probably the worst part of the game for me.

Originally fuel scooping was supposed to be more interactive, with solar flares and plasma bubbles to avoid during the maneuver. Of course that was mostly for the explorers, so it got sidelined for other stuff. Here we are over two years later, and fuel scooping has yet to be changed in any way other than the placeholder mechanic that it still is today.




But hey, Power Play was great, right?
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
Power Play is so weak lol, farming out merits takes no time at all and there is no incentive to stay with a power after 4 weeks.

Id say moving the power play weapons to being sold at a few unique stations like enhanced performance thrusters for a ton of cash would be better and then reworking power play completely so it actually feels like an interstellar conflict with large armies, espionage, rescue missions and all sorts of stuff, rewards would have to be stuff like privileges or cosmetics I think.

Consolidation of power play into 3 major factions and then allying yourself with the person who best suits your desired play style would be cool. Maybe if you want to be imperial and wage all out war you would side with patreus but if you wanted something less combat focused you would side with blue haired fairy princess.

I would love for power play to just become the cornerstone of community interaction. With players feeling instrumental to the events that happen around the galaxy.
 

danowat

Banned
I've never even looked at powerplay, I don't really know what it is or what it does.

but I have heard that unless you've got a ton of hours to plough into it, don't even bother.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
I've never even looked at powerplay, I don't really know what it is or what it does.

but I have heard that unless you've got a ton of hours to plough into it, don't even bother.

Lol not really, you basically pledge to a power, forget that you pledged for 4 weeks, then you remember and grind 750 merits in like 3hrs before thursday to get your weapon.
 

E-flux

Member
I wish that they would add CQC to the main game, i still remember the first community goal i tried to do, it was a tournament that Aisling was doing, for some reason i thought that it was a CQC tournament held at the station it said, got there and i was super disappointed when it was a cargo hauling thing, i was so ready to win the tournament for the princess.

I also saved an escape pod from a crashed ship and bootleg booze 23k lightyears away from sol... It seems to be rarer to stumble upon stuff like this outside of the bubble but it's a bit silly to find them outside of it.
 

danowat

Banned
I wish you could do ship transfer to engineers, I get that they don't have a shipyard for storage, but even if there was a station in the system that did, that would help.

Failing that, I wish you could do pilot transfer to a shipyard that holds another ship.
 

Xcell Miguel

Gold Member
I wish you could do ship transfer to engineers, I get that they don't have a shipyard for storage, but even if there was a station in the system that did, that would help.

Failing that, I wish you could do pilot transfer to a shipyard that holds another ship.

Ship transfer to engineers would be great, for now I transfer modules I want to update but it takes time.

It would be great to plan transfers of modules (and ships), let's say I have modules in system A, I'm in a station in system B and plan to use some modules in system C (for a CG or engineering), I'd like to be able to transfer my modules from A to C while I'm traveling from B to C, instead of going to C, transfer modules to C and wait longer...
 

Burny

Member
It would be great to plan transfers of modules (and ships), let's say I have modules in system A, I'm in a station in system B and plan to use some modules in system C (for a CG or engineering), I'd like to be able to transfer my modules from A to C while I'm traveling from B to C, instead of going to C, transfer modules to C and wait longer...

What would be even greater, is not having to wait for this bullshit, as the transfer was initially announced as instant by Frontier, balanced by credit cost factoring in value and distance. This was before the immersion idiote brigade threw fits and someone without spine at Frontier caved and backtracked on their own game design, that was for once, quiet reasonable by not bending over players and going to town with their free time. Instead we have this whole embarassing zero sum bullshit. Sure you can get quickly somewhere with a quick ship and doing transfer, but you have to wait for the transfer. A game that acknowledges that having to travel in it too much is shite, but would rather encourage you to avoid travel time by not playing it, before shortening the time, because it can't get over its own shit design. *Yay!* Approaching dangerously close to a sunken cost fallacy. Let's sacrifice good game design effort to the already released shit game design aspects!

The whole notion of getting quickly somewhere by completely refitting or outright changing the ship is an embarrassment for Frontier game design in itself. "We have an MMO with warriors, traders and explorers. In order to balance the inherent differences between those classes, we change the time for each one to get from A to B. This is done by watching a lot of loading screens and driving around glowing orbs for longer than is welcome. The Warriors have to watch most loading screens and drive around orbs the most, followed by traders. Explorers can be the quickest, watching least loading screens and spending least time driving around orbs."

It's pretty disgusting. No doubt they thought that having weight factor into jump range was a great means to give depth to ship outfitting. All it does however, is fuck up your playtime with unavoidable load and waiting times. Depth my ass. The usual Frontier Forums response to this is the disingenous "Well, you just have to do tradeoffs: Take a long range multipurpose ship or use your heavy murder boat". What a terrific tradeoff. Die of boredom watching more loading screens than necessary or take a ship that hampers your enjoyment of what you want to actually be doing instead of watching loading screens. But people bend their brain into knots explaining this is immersive or realistic or consistent, rather than using it to critically evaluate the game mechanic implications. The more lazy types outrigh argue that "this game requires time investment, suck it up or leave".


The only balancing factor of how quickly players can get from A to B in a ship, should be how progressed the player is and how much they upgraded their ship. With all ships having roughly equal max jump range. Everything else leads to the "warrios watch more loading screens" bullshit, which gets whiteknighted to death by the usual immersion brigade. Which in turn led to the dropping of instant transfer: players with "slow" ships would've actually gotten a bloody benefit out of it, by using "quick" ships and then doing a transfer. But as the idiot brigade has embraced watching loading screens as a swell balancing mechanic (nobody so far has constructed a metric that shows in what way this balances the game) and were screaming for a zero sum implementation (can't give other people nice things, can we?). Therefore we have to put up with the bullshit travel mechanics Frontier has created.
 
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