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[Buddha Beam]

Price drop or no, the Mini is still insanely expensive for what you get. Even without the drive. I have a Mini and use one at work, too. They were fairy reasonably priced up until the redesigned ones though.

That said, I use my disc drive regularly to copy discs. Mostly audio books so I can listen to them on my phone. I'm not thrilled with this. I think it's too soon to remove disc drive from desktops. Portables are fine since it would decease the weight and size, but it's just silly to not have a ODD on a desktop.
Plus, a lot of people use Minis as media centers... although admittedly, the lack of Blu Ray kind of stinks.

I hope Apple reconsiders and offers a model with a DVD (or BR). I was contemplating upgrading sometime next year. My desk is already huge and I'm still cramped on it there's so much equipment! I really don't want to have to buy a friggin' dongle to rip DVDs and CDs.

 

[CorkyFromLifeGoesOn]

I would be down for this if it wasn't for data caps. Some consumers are screwed :/

 

[numble]

Is the vast majority of software, music, and movies put out floppy? No.

More software and music is sold and released via DD than on a disc. Movies and shows, I don't know, but if you count the streaming done via Netflix, Amazon and Hulu, I'd bet it's close if not more than people buying on disc.

 

[kswiston]

Between the proliferation of external drives, the increase in download speeds, and the availability of drivers for basically any device online, I really haven't found much of a use for an optical drive lately. I have had my laptop 2+ years and used the optical drive maybe 3 times.

 

[ampere]

I would be down for this if it wasn't for data caps. Some consumers are screwed :/

This is the main problem digital distribution faces. When I graduate and have to pay for a good internet connect I'll start to feel the hurt

 

[Sullichin]

Fuck optical drives. Bring on slimmer MBPs. Don't burn discs enough to need one always.

 

[ThisWreckage]

They don't want you to play your DVD or CD. They want you to buy the music, show, or movie off of iTunes.

 

[Kunan]

Lemme guess they removed it to shave a little more off of the already tiny enough case so they can have some asinine bar chart showing how its like 1.5x thinner with a massive green bar for the old one. Removing it from an ultra portable laptop is one thing, but something that sits on your desk? I mean I understand that people don't use them much anymore, but I doubt that's the reason..

 

[Raistlin]

While everyone seems to be arguing the relevance of an optical drive in general ... I still pose the question ... what is the relevance of this device in general? Where is it being positioned?

At this point, it seems to have an eroding market that will practically be gone in a year or two (assuming a large chunk of people use this as an HTPC) given its price point.

 

[LyleLanley]

I'm probably just a disgusting Apple follower, but I welcome the idea of getting rid of the optical drive I almost never use. I'd love a thinner Macbook Pro and the extra room for another harddrive.

Edit:

And because you're essentially trapped. Yeah, you can get around Apple, but it's become almost as much like the iPad short of being one.

What the hell are you talking about? Clearly you've never used an Apple computer, you are not trapped at all and it is nothing like an iPad. I can install software from wherever I want made by whoever.

 

[kehs]

So basically Apple is going to start selling people iphones that have no cell connectivity, no screen, no battery but they do have proper outputs.

Brilliant.

 

[ampere]

They don't want you to play your DVD or CD. They want you to buy the music, show, or movie off of iTunes.

Somehow I didn't even think about that, but yes, very true.

 

[numble]

While everyone seems to be arguing the relevance of an optical drive in general ... I still pose the question ... what is the relevance of this device in general? Where is it being positioned?

At this point, it seems to have an eroding market that will practically be gone in a year or two (assuming a large chunk of people use this as an HTPC) given its price point.

It's the desktop Mac without a screen.

 

[Sullichin]

So basically Apple is going to start selling people iphones that have no cell connectivity, no screen, no battery but they do have proper outputs.

Brilliant.

wat

 

[Jamesfrom818]

Not that I use the optical drive much in my notebook but I like having it there just in case.

 

[Renmei]

In the age of bandwidth caps, I don't want to have to download software when a dvd option is avaliable. I want an optical drive.

 

[LyleLanley]

Not that I use the optical drive much in my notebook but I like having it there just in case.

One useful feature on macs is the ability to use discs inserted on any computer, mac or pc, on your network. So as long as you have a computer that has a disc drive you'll be fine.

 

[dallow_bg]

Not that I use the optical drive much in my notebook but I like having it there just in case.

I'd be annoyed by the dead weight, extra bulk, and drain on the battery.
My slim external disc drive is available just in case.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So basically Apple is going to start selling people iphones that have no cell connectivity, no screen, no battery but they do have proper outputs.

Brilliant.

 

[Raistlin]

It's the desktop Mac without a screen.

Sure, but how many people really use it as more than an HTPC? I'm sure there are some but I think that's one of it's most common usages.

What we have is (even by Apple standards) an already niche product. If it then becomes obsolete or way overpriced for a large segment of its users (HTPC) ... where will it be in the long-term?

I'm posing the question of if it's relegated to simply only being useful as a really low-powered Mac without a screen ... is there enough of a market to keep it going (or at least relevant)?

 

[LyleLanley]

Sure, but how many people really use it as more than an HTPC? I'm sure there are some but I think that's one of it's most common usages.

What we have is (even by Apple standards) an already niche product. If it then becomes obsolete or way overpriced for a large segment of its users (HTPC) ... where will it be in the long-term?

It's also their server line now.

 

[numble]

Sure, but how many people really use it as more than an HTPC? I'm sure there are some but I think that's one of it's most common usages.

What we have is (even by Apple standards) an already niche product. If it then becomes obsolete or way overpriced for a large segment of its users (HTPC) ... where will it be in the long-term?

Why do you keep thinking its only used as an HTPC? Macs keep growing at +10% or so each quarter, not everyone needs the huge screen on the iMac if they've got a screen already.

 

[shantyman]

A lot of my clients still want a copy of their projects on DVD, as does the University I work for. I know in the future I can just purchase an external DVD burner for my MBP; but to be honest I would prefer to minimize the clutter. I prefer to have everything in one box.

It's also a shame that they removed the SxS readers in the MBP in favor of the SD reader. SD readers are insanely cheap. Not so much with the SxS.

A big, thick, heavy box.

 

[favouriteflavour]

Wait so how do you install an OS or upgrade an OS?

 

[numble]

Wait so how do you install an OS or upgrade an OS?

Pay $30 on the Mac App Store.

 

[LyleLanley]

Wait so how do you install an OS or upgrade an OS?

App store to install a new os, internet recovery if you have a problem with it or if you have no internet you can get Lion on a memory stick. Also, who uses a CD or DVD to upgrade an OS?

 

[numble]

Sure, but how many people really use it as more than an HTPC? I'm sure there are some but I think that's one of it's most common usages.

What we have is (even by Apple standards) an already niche product. If it then becomes obsolete or way overpriced for a large segment of its users (HTPC) ... where will it be in the long-term?

I'm posing the question of if it's relegated to simply only being useful as a really low-powered Mac without a screen ... is there enough of a market to keep it going (or at least relevant)?

Here are Amazon's best-selling computers in the "Desktop" category:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestseller..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0MFZC5M9RYJPPRPS0QRG

Pretty good for a niche product, huh?

 

[Raistlin]

Why do you keep thinking its only used as an HTPC? Macs keep growing at +10% or so each quarter, not everyone needs the huge screen on the iMac if they've got one already.

I never said only ... however I think that's is one of its largest uses.

It's not like it's useful for gaming unless you go to the higher-end model and even then the performance for cost isn't great.



The main issue I have is that there is a ton of competition coming from all ends, and it simply looks like it will be a poor solution for what was previously one of it's more common uses.

 

[Phoenix]

I still play my gas station purchased bootleg movies on the DVD drive in my Mac. I can't function without that until I get easy access to bootleg DVD movies in digital form. Bootleg man needs to get up with the times...

 

[dallow_bg]

I never said only ... however I think that's is one of its largest uses.

It's not like it's useful for gaming unless you go to the higher-end model and even then the performance for cost isn't great.



The main issue I have is that there is a ton of competition coming from all ends, and it simply looks like it will be a poor solution for what was previously one of it's more common uses.

I think it's just your assumption.
Plenty of people use the Mini as just a regular desktop with standard display that I know of.
I'm the only techie in my circle so of course I considered getting one for HTPC use.

 

[gburgess10]

Even though the optical drive isn't exactly a requirement nowadays, computers are still designed so that you will need them eventually when something goes wrong.

Until we can install OSes from flash drives and stuff (I believe it is possible, but currently the process is very inferior to CDs AFAIK), it will always be prevalent.

 

[MercuryLS]

Optical drives are even less useful now than floppy drives were when Apple phased them out. There are numerous options for portable USB storage that are much bigger and faster than discs.

I realised the other day that when I burned a Lion boot DVD, that was the first time I'd used my MacBook Pro's disc drive since I bought it in March. For very occasional use like that and the odd CD or DVD rip I'd be more than happy to keep a USB drive in my drawer for the savings in size and weight that would benefit me all the time.

This is exactly how I see it. MBA is the shit and it will be really nice when optical is axed from the MBPros too.

 

[LyleLanley]

Even though the optical drive isn't exactly a requirement nowadays, computers are still designed so that you will need them eventually when something goes wrong.

Until we can install OSes from flash drives and stuff (I believe it is possible, but currently the process is very inferior to CDs AFAIK), it will always be prevalent.

As I said a few posts above yours, you can install Lion via flash drive and I believe if you have a Mac with a broken harddrive you can even recover just by being connected to the internet and downloading the OS.

Edit:

Here's a link for your viewing pleasure http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/20/lion-recovery-restores-mac-system-software-without-drives/

 

[Phoenix]

Even though the optical drive isn't exactly a requirement nowadays, computers are still designed so that you will need them eventually when something goes wrong.

Until we can install OSes from flash drives and stuff (I believe it is possible, but currently the process is very inferior to CDs AFAIK), it will always be prevalent.

I don't know any modern OSes that can't be installed from a flash drive actually.

 

[gburgess10]

As I said a few posts above yours, you can install Lion via flash drive and I believe if you have a Mac with a broken harddrive you can even recover just by being connected to the internet and downloading the OS.

If you read my post, you would see I said I know that is possible.

I also said that it was still inferior to reinstallation by optical drive.

The process you are referring to involves a lot of hassle, is not possible for the technically dis-inclined, and currently needs a lot more streamlining.

Also what if you don't have internet/speedy internet?

The download times alone would be unbelievable on the low tier broadband options (4-6 hours).

 

[Angry Grimace]

I know Apple doesn't actually believe there's a world outside their own field of vision but the optical drive is nowhere near dead.

 

[dallow_bg]

Last few times I've used a flash drive to install an OS were wonderful experiences.
So damn fast.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Edit: Shit it WAS $699. guess Amazon was selling it cheaper. I paid $599 for mine on release.

 

[Raistlin]

Here are Amazon's best-selling computers in the "Desktop" category:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestseller..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0MFZC5M9RYJPPRPS0QRG

Pretty good for a niche product, huh?

• Amazon is always a poor tool for such measures. It's a ranking not absolute numbers, nor does it represent all competition (or even much of it)
• It just launched
• Even if Amazon was all-inclusive which it isn't ... you'd have to compare it against all competitors. This is like saying iPhone outsells any single Android phone. It's a single-source versus hundreds of products. Actually more accurately ... this is like saying iPhone is outselling any single Android phone at a specific store.
• If you reread what I've been posting, I'm talking about over the next few years, not this very second. Much of the competition in the HTPC/media streamer market isn't even here yet

So what I'm asking is ... in the future when it is obviously considered a poor choice as a media playback device ... will it have a large install base on its own merits? ie. As a monitor-less Mac desktop.

I think it's just your assumption.
Plenty of people use the Mini as just a regular desktop with standard display that I know of.
I'm the only techie in my circle so of course I considered getting one for HTPC use.

If that's the case, then maybe it will do fine.

I wish there was a way to get some numbers on usage patters. The few people I know that have one basically have it sitting under their TV. They do most of the 'computer work' on something else (some have a Mac Book and some of either a PC or an iMac).

 

[LyleLanley]

If you read my post, you would see I said I know that is possible.

I also said that it was still inferior to reinstallation by optical drive.

The process you are referring to involves a lot of hassle, is not possible for the technically dis-inclined, and currently needs a lot more streamlining.

Actually you said you believed it was possible, I was just confirming that it is. As for your other points, what's inferior about reinstalling via a flash drive? Lastly, reinstalling via the internet incase of a broken harddrive may be a problem for some but I'm sure it's easy enough be guided through over the phone via tech support.

Also what if you don't have internet/speedy internet?

Then buy the flash drive from apple, or create your own when you download Lion, or bring it into the genius bar and have them do it all for you.

As for download times, if you have a broken computer being able to download the OS overnight probably isn't a huge deal.

 

[shantyman]

I know Apple doesn't actually believe there's a world outside their own field of vision but the optical drive is nowhere near dead.

And why should they? The define the path, others follow.

 

[mrkgoo]

I was kind of indifferent at first. On the one hand, I hardly ever use my optical drive... On the other, it's only 'hardly ever' not 'never'. I'll occasionally rip a movie/CD or burn a disc.

Then Marty Chinn enlightened me. No optica drives in computers, a single swappable external optical. This makes real sense for someone like me who has access to many other computers. Why buy an internal drive for each and every computer I buy? Just have them remove all opticals and retain an external solution for legacy compatibility or those times when you want to use it.. Perfect. Save money, and space, but retain near full usability.

Thanks, Marty!

 

[Lonely1]

Well, for an ultra portable like the air is not only understandable, but desirable. But for a desktop and high end laptops? I can't get behind that. I do use my Optical drive from time to time. To burn disk to distribute files for work and not everywhere we Netflix, you know.

 

[Brofist]

So basically Apple is going to start selling people iphones that have no cell connectivity, no screen, no battery but they do have proper outputs.

Brilliant.

say what

 

[numble]

• Amazon is always a poor tool for such measures. It's a ranking not absolute numbers, nor does it represent all competition (or even much of it)
• It just launched
• Even if Amazon was all-inclusive which it isn't ... you'd have to compare it against all competitors. This is like saying iPhone outsells any single Android phone. It's a single-source versus hundreds of products. Actually more accurately ... this is like saying iPhone is outselling any single Android phone at a specific store.
• If you reread what I've been posting, I'm talking about over the next few years, not this very second. Much of the competition in the HTPC/media streamer market isn't even here yet

So what I'm asking is ... in the future when it is obviously considered a poor choice as a media playback device ... will it have a large install base on its own merits? ie. As a monitor-less Mac desktop.

No, why would Apple care about stuff, thats too much console warz stuff. They made $7.3 billion in the last 3 months with minimal marketshare gains (outside of iPad) but strong growth in their already high-margin products. They don't care about losing the market to cheap HTPCs when those guys are not making any money from it, they only care about negative absolute growth, which has not happened.

 

[Synth_floyd]

I have a laptop and honestly have not used the optical drive in months. So for the Macbook Airs and Pros I think it's a good move.

However, I do feel uneasy about removing them on desktops. If you're not moving it around and don't need to save the space and weight, then why not throw in an optical drive? It would be nice to have a Blu-ray on the new Mac Mini but obviously Apple will never adopt Blu Rays.

Apple is obviously phasing out the optical drives for their own economic gain (itunes store, icloud, mac app store, etc) as much as it is a bid to advance the state of computers.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

I was kind of indifferent at first. On the one hand, I hardly ever use my optical drive... On the other, it's only 'hardly ever' not 'never'. I'll occasionally rip a movie/CD or burn a disc.

Then Marty Chinn enlightened me. No optica drives in computers, a single swappable external optical. This makes real sense for someone like me who has access to many other computers. Why buy an internal drive for each and every computer I buy? Just have them remove all opticals and retain an external solution for legacy compatibility or those times when you want to use it.. Perfect. Save money, and space, but retain near full usability.

Thanks, Marty!

What makes you think they'll really pass the savings onto the consumers?

 

[shantyman]

You know, Apple explained why they did this right on their site:

Mac mini is designed without an optical disc drive. Because these days, you don’t need one. It’s easier than ever to download music and movies from the iTunes Store. And you can download apps from the Mac App Store with a click. So what did we do with all the extra space? We squeezed in more powerful processors, advanced graphics, and Thunderbolt technology. And removing the optical drive gave us room to do one more thing with Mac mini: lower its price.

This is of course marketing copy, but I see no reason to disbelieve it.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

say what

Ignore him.

Optical drives make sense in desktops because they are

1) Dirt cheap
2) Don't change the performance of the computer (ie no battery impact due to less space in chasis)

In laptops.... not so much. The cloud, flashdrives, and external HDD's have pretty much done away w/ the DVD for me. Even Windows 7 can easily be installed from a flash drive.

 

[dallow_bg]

I was kind of indifferent at first. On the one hand, I hardly ever use my optical drive... On the other, it's only 'hardly ever' not 'never'. I'll occasionally rip a movie/CD or burn a disc.

Then Marty Chinn enlightened me. No optica drives in computers, a single swappable external optical. This makes real sense for someone like me who has access to many other computers. Why buy an internal drive for each and every computer I buy? Just have them remove all opticals and retain an external solution for legacy compatibility or those times when you want to use it.. Perfect. Save money, and space, but retain near full usability.

Thanks, Marty!

Yup, and getting a slim disc drive that is powered by USB ports is even sweeter.
No more AC adapter!