Support NeoGAF

[lunarworks]

Well at least they embrace USB.

*looks at the iPad*

Oh wait.

Here's why iPad doesn't support USB:

People plug in stuff and expect it to work. So Apple would have to provide drivers for just about every USB device out there, which doesn't exactly work for a mobile OS, or allow installation of drivers. Once you get into driver installation territory, all kinds of stability/security holes open and "it just works" flies out the window.

Unless you're talking about USB storage only... but people are gonna plug whatever the fuck in there, and you know it.

 

[teh_pwn]

Which is why arguing with people like you is useless. You obviously care nothing for design and hardware beyond raw horsepower. You don't get it. That's fine. Move along.

A lack of a feature, like an optical disc drive, is a deal breaker for me. I don't care how it looks, it can't do what I want.

 

[rezuth]

I'm not talking about console warz nor saying anything has happened ... yet.


My premise is HTPC / media streaming may make up a large user-base of the Mini. If that is the case, sales of this particular product may, long-term, erode.

If it makes it easier for this discussion, let's not even consider external competition at all. In many ways it may be the internal cannibalization that does it. With portable devices becoming more and more powerful, an iTV or a combination of iTV and iPad will ultimately serve a large segment better. And since screen prices have come down enough ... for those that want a functioning computer as well, an Air or MacBook may be the better overall solution.

It's not that I think the entire market will drop out from underneath the Mini, but as you said, it's more about growth. If there is negative growth for this long-term ... because their other products are actually picking up the slack ... will Apple see a reason to continue the line if they feel their customers are already being served in other lines?

If you want to know what the Mac Mini is used a lot for its servers.

 

[LyleLanley]

wht ssd is it ? I've seen ssd's go for $70 bucks for 64GB .

I think it's just a stripped down SSD, you can read about it here, also of note is that apparently you can replace/upgrade the ssd in the Airs. http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/21/new-macbook-air-ssds-are-replaceable/

 

[numble]

A lack of a feature, like an optical disc drive, is a deal breaker for me. I don't care how it looks, it can't do what I want.

If they dropped the price by $100 and made it optional, is it good or bad?

 

[Tobor]

If you want to know what the Mac Mini is used a lot for its servers.

That's what my company buys them for. We bought 10 of them last week.

 

[teh_pwn]

If they dropped the price by $100 and made it optional, is it good or bad?

That's fine. Did they do that. Did I not read the OP correctly?

Though $100 is a bit ridiculous for a disc drive in a desktop. Even blu-ray ROMs are $50.

 

[Raistlin]

Oh, Ok. Yeah it's fairly expensive and you can't upgrade it but it's not like they're just putting a stock ssd in there.

Yeah, they're slower depending on the model

http://www.engadget.com/2011/07/25/psa-apple-using-slower-ssds-in-some-macbook-air-models-video/

i kid

If you want to know what the Mac Mini is used a lot for its servers.

Is there data for this? The server models start at $999 and have a tiny amount of storage. Is that really the highest selling model and usage?

 

[SnakeXs]

That's fine. Did they do that. Did I not read the OP correctly?

Though $100 is a bit ridiculous for a disc drive in a desktop. Even blu-ray ROMs are $50.

Yes, and I'm pretty sure you can use any eternal optical (CD/DVD) drive, too.

 

[LyleLanley]

Yes, and I'm pretty sure you can use any eternal optical (CD/DVD) drive, too.

Or like I mentioned on a previous page, you can use any cd drive connected to your network.

 

[ReBurn]

Come to think if it, I haven't used the optical drive in my MacBook Pro in the last year for anything other than ripping movies to digital files so that I can watch them on my iPad. I created all of my Windows VM's from ISO's downloaded from MSDN. Created my Ubuntu VM's from ISO as well.

The article is just stating the obvious since Lion seems to be geared toward digital distribution of everything. As long as Apple keeps USB ports around I'll be just fine I suspect.

 

[MercuryLS]

Yeah, it's the one thing holding me back. I was inches away from buying an Air until I realized my research alone takes up 90GB on my MacBook.

It'll take another refresh or two before 128Gb becomes standard at $999. I ended up biting the bullet and getting the 256Gb MBA 11" at $1414 pre tax. Definitely more than I wanted to pay, but I'm not willing to wait another year+ for 256Gb to be standard on the $1199 model.

And for the people saying that the MBA is a poor value. Please take a look at the Samsung Series 9, which is weaker than the MBA and is slightly more expensive. Or how about the Sony Viao Z that has a sticker price of $2k. Or how about this...

Closest thing to the MBA that the PC world has, supposed to be far cheaper and more of a value than the MBA, right? Wrong.

http://www.technobaboy.com/2011/07/27/asus-ux21-asus-ux31-price-release-date/

The Asus UX21 and UX31 ultrabooks, the much-awaited Macbook Air killers, will retail for more than US$1,000, not less as earlier reported. In fact, according to Digitimes, these laptops may retail anywhere between US$1,000 to US$1,600 because of “low yield rates” for parts and components. The base model of the new Macbook Air only retails for US$999.

Intel was hoping that ultrabooks like the 11.6-inch UX21 and 13-inch UX31 can be priced below US$1,000 to promote the ultra-thin notebook platform, but the production costs have rendered this improbable.

Asus is reportedly taking a conservative attitude with respect to the launch of the ultrabook platform considering the situation in the global market. The plan now is to release small volumes to find out market response and release a larger volume in 2012. By that time, the company hopes that the production costs would have already decreased.

The Asus UX21 and UX31 ultrabooks are scheduled for launch around September or October of this year.

 

[SeanR1221]

I think it's just a stripped down SSD, you can read about it here, also of note is that apparently you can replace/upgrade the ssd in the Airs. http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/21/new-macbook-air-ssds-are-replaceable/

By voiding your warranty :/

 

[numble]

That's fine. Did they do that. Did I not read the OP correctly?

Though $100 is a bit ridiculous for a disc drive in a desktop. Even blu-ray ROMs are $50.

So wouldn't you rather have the extra $100 (+$100 gift card they give for summer purchases) and buy a cheap external than have to pay $100 more? It's really a win-win situation--people that don't need it save $100. People that want it save $100 - external drive cost.

 

[Htown]

I'm usually all against Apple's stupid bullshit, and it's kind of bad that they're removing the optical drive, I guess, but I use my own PC's optical drive extremely rarely.

Also, with the popularity of netbooks and tablets, optical drives are kind of starting to go away anyway.

Also, external USB disc drives are SUPER CHEAP NOW. If you pay even 40 dollars for a portable optical drive, you are doing it wrong.

 

[krypt0nian]

Ahead of the curve.

 

[Technosteve]

It doesnt come with a dvd drive right move on. If you want a computer the size of a six inch square that sucks 40 watts on average 85 max with an optical drive buy last year's mini.

 

[diehard]

I'm sure it has been mentioned but i remember all the whining when they took the Floppy out of the iMac.

 

[Tedesco!]

A big, thick, heavy box.

I was wondering when you were going to rear your head....

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'm sure it has been mentioned but i remember all the whining when they took the Floppy out of the iMac.

Not the same situation.

Here's why iPad doesn't support USB:

People plug in stuff and expect it to work. So Apple would have to provide drivers for just about every USB device out there, which doesn't exactly work for a mobile OS, or allow installation of drivers. Once you get into driver installation territory, all kinds of stability/security holes open and "it just works" flies out the window.

Unless you're talking about USB storage only... but people are gonna plug whatever the fuck in there, and you know it.

What type of devices are we talking here that is giong to break th whole concept? I can stick a camcorder, digital camera, control pad, mouse, keyboard, hard drive, and a usb flash drive into an Android Honeycomb tablet and it all just works fine. What devices are you talking about that people are going to plug in and it's not going to work because there is no driver?

 

[lunarworks]

I'm sure it has been mentioned but i remember all the whining when they took the Floppy out of the iMac.

It's similar to a degree, but proportionally, in terms of raw storage, an optical drive is far more useful now than a floppy drive was then. I can burn a dozen movies to a dual-layer DVD (not that I desire to), but I couldn't even squeeze one MP3 onto a floppy.

Of course, the outcry back then was that floppies were THE go-to storage medium for most people. They were absolutely useless, but people were attached to them like a baby to a pacifier. I'd say floppies were more used at the time than optical media is now.

 

[Wiktor]

So I have one more reason now to never buy a mac.

 

[outunderthestars]

It's similar to a degree, but proportionally, in terms of raw storage, an optical drive is far more useful now than a floppy drive was then. I can burn a dozen movies to a dual-layer DVD (not that I desire to), but I couldn't even squeeze one MP3 onto a floppy.

Of course, the outcry back then was that floppies were THE go-to storage medium for most people. They were absolutely useless, but people were attached to them like a baby to a pacifier. I'd say floppies were more used at the time than optical media is now.

So the vast majority of music, movies, and software at the time were on floppies?

 

[Technosteve]

So I have one more reason now to never buy a mac.

Is one of them being poor?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Who the hell wants optical media?

If it wasn't for the fact that down-loadable films having low resolution and too big of file-size, and toss my Blu-ray Drive in the trash.

I left the Apple world for a reason, but I think that this is a very smart decision on their part.

 

[Raistlin]

So I have one more reason now to never buy a mac.

I didn't realize this was the only Mac available

 

[numble]

So I have one more reason now to never buy a mac.

Because they cut the price of a computer by $100 when they remove the optical drive, which you can get separately for less than $100?

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Here's why iPad doesn't support USB:

People plug in stuff and expect it to work. So Apple would have to provide drivers for just about every USB device out there, which doesn't exactly work for a mobile OS, or allow installation of drivers. Once you get into driver installation territory, all kinds of stability/security holes open and "it just works" flies out the window.

Unless you're talking about USB storage only... but people are gonna plug whatever the fuck in there, and you know it.

Apple would provide the drivers? I thought nearly all USB devices nowadays contain their own? Perhaps not Apple specific but I'm sure the majority do.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Who the hell wants optical media?

If it wasn't for the fact that down-loadable films having low resolution and too big of file-size, and toss my Blu-ray Drive in the trash.

Again, optical media is a large capacity, widely used, non mechanical, and most importantly super cheap and disposable medium. You can't say that about the other forms out there now. It has its advantages.

Because they cut the price of a computer by $100 when they remove the optical drive, which you can get separately for less than $100?

You know for all the talk about design and elegance, it's funny to hear the defense be that you can have it hanging on the outside and cheaper.

 

[Wiktor]

Is one of them being poor?

Nah. I actually don't find them all that expensive. Comparable PCs cost similiar ammount of money. The only really overpriced Mac is Mac Pro.

I just find their hardware and software to simply be not suited for what I do everyday with computers.

 

[teh_pwn]

Who the hell wants optical media?

If it wasn't for the fact that down-loadable films having low resolution and too big of file-size, and toss my Blu-ray Drive in the trash.

I left the Apple world for a reason, but I think that this is a very smart decision on their part.

Well games for one are going to get massive within a few years. I don't see the US networking infrastructure keeping up with that rate of progress. I already prefer installing major games from disc rather than downloading with 5-20 GB games. When next gen consoles come out with BD ROM and multiplatform game engines use the same capacity, I don't see myself ever downloading games.

 

[lunarworks]

So the vast majority of music, movies, and software at the time were on floppies?

1998 was a very different world. At the time, plenty of software was on floppies. Movies were generally on VHS, and compression technology for video generally sucked, so it was more or less a novelty on computers. Music was mostly on CD, and pirated music was downloaded over the net (at dial-up speed) and usually never backed up to any sort of external media. But people loved trading crappy JPEGs and spreadsheets using floppies. Very few people emailed anything other than greetings to each other.

 

[teh_pwn]

1998 was a very different world. At the time, plenty of software was on floppies. Movies were generally on VHS, and compression technology for video generally sucked, so it was more or less a novelty on computers. Music was mostly on CD, and pirated music was downloaded over the net (at dial-up speed) and usually never backed up to any sort of external media.

I don't remember this. I remember floppy discs for device drivers during Windows setup, and some legacy software. Most stuff was on CD or ZIP disks. ZIP disks quickly died when flash drives came out and for some reason floppies hanged around until the early 2000s.

 

[LyleLanley]

So the vast majority of music, movies, and software at the time were on floppies?

Doesn't the vast majority of music, movies and software now come from internet?

 

[outunderthestars]

What about people who live in areas with bandwidth caps?

 

[Raistlin]

Who the hell wants optical media?

If it wasn't for the fact that down-loadable films having low resolution and too big of file-size, and toss my Blu-ray Drive in the trash.

But they do ... which is the point.

 

[dallow_bg]

Excuse me, did you just call me a joke?

DO you honestly believe that Apple doesn't have a walled garden approach to business?

or that they don't charge more for less with their machines?

then again you are both a NIntendo AND an Apple fan. You're used to getting the shaft from companies...

Sure did. And your subsequent posts just showed that you're one of those types of people that only see numbers and specs when looking at a computer and can't appreciate anything else or even acknowledge them.
I can appreciate both ideas and I don't even own a Mac or iPhone.

Don't know why you think I'm a Nintendo fanboy though, I'm pretty negative about them and their ridiculous online bumbling.

 

[teh_pwn]

What about people who live in areas with bandwidth caps?

Or people that like the convenience of Netflix/Steam, and the quality/speed of high capacity media. You can like both.

 

[Raistlin]

Because they cut the price of a computer by $100 when they remove the optical drive, which you can get separately for less than $100?

Inferior form-factor? But in general, your point stands.



So where's that data?

 

[Wiktor]

Who the hell wants optical media?

People who have hundreds DVDs/CDs with movies and music?

 

[lunarworks]

I don't remember this. I remember floppy discs for device drivers during Windows setup, and some legacy software. Most stuff was on CD or ZIP disks. ZIP disks quickly died when flash drives came out and for some reason floppies hanged around until the early 2000s.

I honestly knew very few people with a zip drive, and CDs were write-once and used for big files. Floppies were what most people used for document transfers at the time. Back then computers were still widely considered "productivity devices", rather than the entertainment devices they've become.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Doesn't the vast majority of music, movies and software now come from internet?

Does it? I have to thnk you can find almost anything that's available in physical form, but th same doesn't apply the other way around. So wouldn't that still be the leg up on optical media? Is Star Wars going to be on iTunes anytime soon?

 

[Technosteve]

Nah. I actually don't find them all that expensive. Comparable PCs cost similiar ammount of money. The only really overpriced Mac is Mac Pro.

I just find their hardware and software to simply be not suited for what I do everyday with computers.

a rational response, i wasn't prepared for that. Let's try this again

Is one of the reasons because your a POOR ORPHAN FROM ORPHANVILLE?

 

[Tobor]

Does it? I have to thnk you can find almost anything that's available in physical form, but th same doesn't apply the other way around. So wouldn't that still be the leg up on optical media? Is Star Wars going to be on iTunes anytime soon?

There are some holes in the movies available, but music and software are covered.

 

[numble]

Inferior form-factor? But in general, your point stands.



So where's that data?

What data? The growth in sales, divided by division and including unit numbers, are in their financial statements, filed quarterly.

If you're talking about plunking down for a Cinema Display and Mac Mini, its from the same data where you say most sales are for HTPC use.

 

[Marty Chinn]

People who have hundreds DVDs/CDs with movies and music?

Also people who don't want subpar quality which is what you'll get with digital distribution at this point in time.

 

[dallow_bg]

You know for all the talk about design and elegance, it's funny to hear the defense be that you can have it hanging on the outside and cheaper.

By the responses here and other places I've seen around, seems like a lot of people don't use them that often so I would think it'd get stored away.
My Alienware laptop doesn't have a disc drive, and I keep the external drive in a sock drawer.

 

[Wiktor]

a rational response, i wasn't prepared for that. Let's try this again

Is one of the reasons because your a POOR ORPHAN FROM ORPHANVILLE?

I was, but my orphanage was burned down by Steve Jobs, that bastard !!!

 

[teh_pwn]

I honestly knew very few people with a zip drive, and CDs were write-once and used for big files. Floppies were what most people used for document transfers at the time. Back then computers were still widely considered "productivity devices", rather than the entertainment devices they've become.

If I'm reading this chart right, 9 million were sold in 1998 (drives):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ZipDiskNDrive_unitsales_1998to2003.svg

I mean sure every PC had a floppy drive, but it was good for 1-2 things rarely.

 

[UrokeJoe]

Lets move on people the optical drive is gone, it's dead. And it's not Apples fault, they just know a dead horse when they see it.