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[Mauricio_Magus]

Aside of the 3rd one, I like every EO4 Stratum.

The Echoing Library and the Hall of Darkness are really good, they aren't EO3 tier but they are still pretty good.

Beat the fallen one, barely. Used a lot of items and two people were dead with no hope of revival at the end, and tp was tapped for everyone but my fortress, who was dead anyway. Only thing left is this dang warped savior.

Congrats! Only one more to go!

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Question: So i subbed L to my Fortress main and they share the Iron Wall skill, do the effects stack though? Should i invest in it as F AND as L to get the most out of it?

 

[omlet]

Question: So i subbed L to my Fortress main and they share the Iron Wall skill, do the effects stack though? Should i invest in it as F AND as L to get the most out of it?

W-why would you sub Landshark to your Fortress? Just for Iron Wall? Not worth it even if they do stack.

As for whether or not the stack, I can't confirm on that skill, but if I recall from what I've read, skill stacking in EO4 does work but the subclass' stacked (same) skill has a reduced effect. Basically it's not worth it.

Would highly recommend you consider a better support class for your F's sub. If you're building your F for some damage, their innate damage skills are actually pretty good, so just invest in those, because you will not get good damage out of half-rank L skills on your F. If you're building your F for tanking, then you want subclass options that help them support the party better. Almost anything is a better pick than L, no matter what your party build is.

As subs for F your options are... (my recommendations in bold)

L - Iron Wall, but as mentioned you have better options.

N - Speed Boost is not bad but that's about all you're getting.

S - Support skills like Spotter, Eagle Eye, Scavenger, or Discerning Eye, but...

M - Actually a decent pick. Patch Up stacks IIRC, and Stretch will help your Fortress avoid binds which is critical for them. TP boost can help for boss fights and the mace skills are good. Don't recommend trying to spend points on healing skills unless you're not going for any mace skills.

R - TP boost, Runic Shield, and Free Energy are all useful for F. Rune skills can be useful, too, if you don't have a R or /R in your party with those skills yet.

D - An excellent choice (IMO the best choice). Fan Dance is very useful for F as it gives a better evasion rate than Speed Boost. They can also afford to take Sword and Mist dance giving them chances to land stun hits on turns where they don't need to use a skill. Refresh Waltz and Freedom Waltz are literally life-savers later in the game and even if you have a dancer in your party already, letting F do these dances while D does something better (Attack Tango and/or a Samba). Quick Step is priceless and Burst Saver is a good investment for 3 points.

A - Warding Mist is very good, Tame Ground is good but not as useful in EO4 as in other games, Bracing Walk is good for saving on TP/items, and Eye skills are good picks for turns when your F can do something offensive.

B - Roar and Endure are good. Ferocity and Power Boost aren't bad to dump points in after important things are done. You don't want to be using Blood Surge as a tank. If you're trying to build a tank that can do damage, this is a way better subclass choice than L, at least IMO.

I - Hawkeye is about the only useful thing and it's only useful if you need it (and if you can afford the debuff slot) and don't have an imperial in your party already. Not a good option.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

I WAS considering Dancer as well just to take some of the buffing off her so she can attack with my Linking mainly...

However, i did pick L not just for Iron Wall but mainly for Swordbreaker since my F was meant to be a Tank based on Taunt mainly, so that should help support by reducing damage. I also thought i could have him debuff by using Power Break/elemental break so my L wouldn't have to do this instead of building up linking buffs/attacking.

 

[tuffy]

Consider that Swordbreaker will max out at ~14% chance of reducing only physical damage and only to the Fortress' row. But Fan Dance will max out at ~30% chance of nullifying everything by evading the attack entirely. So the latter is more popular, especially when combined with Party Shield.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Consider that Swordbreaker will max out at ~14% chance of reducing only physical damage and only to the Fortress' row. But Fan Dance will max out at ~30% chance of nullifying everything by evading the attack entirely. So the latter is more popular, especially when combined with Party Shield.

hmmm, well if i switch over to party shield now (where i currently have 0 pts in) what about all those pts i already put into taunt/auto-taunt? Won't those be wasted then?

 

[omlet]

I WAS considering Dancer as well just to take some of the buffing off her so she can attack with my Linking mainly...

However, i did pick L not just for Iron Wall but mainly for Swordbreaker since my F was meant to be a Tank based on Taunt mainly, so that should help support by reducing damage. I also thought i could have him debuff by using Power Break/elemental break so my L wouldn't have to do this instead of building up linking buffs/attacking.

You really don't want to be relying on Swordbreaker to protect the whole row. Its activation rate is poor to begin with, but more importantly F has Taunt so most of the attacks will be targeting him already. Dancer sub for Fan Dance is a much better way to avoid damage. For attacks that are going to hit your entire row or party no matter what, you don't want to rely on Swordbreaker, you want to use Line or Party Shield.

If you have a dancer already, F/D is still great. Your dancer main can do things where the rank of the dance actually matters (like attack and regen dances and sambas for more chasers) and your fortress can do dances where the rank matters less or not at all (refresh and freedom waltz, quick step). Also if two people are doing Regen Waltz in the same line the healing stacks.

IMO Power and Mind break aren't bad skills but it's up to you how you want to spend your debuff slots. Unless you're fighting the postgame boss without the handicap a F is already really durable enough to not need your party to use skills that reduce enemy attack power. Plus they only target 1 enemy at a time and only last for 3 turns... and in a boss fight that matters, your F is probably not going to have time to re-apply that attack.

Another thing to consider is that a F/D with Mist Dance can just lock down a target by normal attacks stunning it. Probably around the same odds as getting Swordbreaker to activate, but you spent 0 TP and then the target just lost their turn.

Then again this is EO4 and even on normal mode it's pretty easy until postgame. I'm sure you'll survive with F/L but I do recommend you give F/D a try, it's pretty fantastic as you approach the later parts of the game and have enough skill points.

Pretty sure this was my endgame F/D build (or very similar), for your reference: 3721x504x0x041066500600105x80500002000002000550010040

hmmm, well if i switch over to party shield now (where i currently have 0 pts in) what about all those pts i already put into taunt/auto-taunt? Won't those be wasted then?

Not really. Some enemies will have attacks that hit your entire party and ignore Taunt. That's what party shield is good for. You will want to get it eventually. Taunt is amazing in EO4 (finally) and will handle most random encounters. For FOEs and bosses, though, they have some attacks that you will need Line or Party shield to effectively block.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

I don't think I'd sub a Fortress anything else than Dancer.

 

[Man God]

I don't think I'd sub a Fortress anything else than Dancer.

Whatever they call Alchemist in this game is a distant but usable second.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

I don't think I'd sub a Fortress anything else than Dancer.

That's great and all but just how are you supposed to figure these intricacies out by yourself as a first timer? I mean i even checked a site beforehand which clearly recommended L as a viable or even great choice to subbing a Fortress so i trusted that. The justification being swordbreaker and some debuff skills like i mentioned.

Now without counter checking some other sites/number calculators etc. there's no way to possibly know that swordbreaker is VASTLY inferior in terms of activation rate to other classes skills in the same range.

Also: i wish there were a way to see these things beforehand IN the actual game without having to check forums and sites etc.

 

[Anteo]

That's great and all but just how are you supposed to figure these intricacies out by yourself as a first timer? I mean i even checked a site beforehand which clearly recommended L as a viable or even great choice to subbing a Fortress so i trusted that. The justification being swordbreaker and some debuff skills like i mentioned.

Now without counter checking some other sites/number calculators etc. there's no way to possibly know that swordbreaker is VASTLY inferior in terms of activation rate to other classes skills in the same range.

Also: i wish there were a way to see these things beforehand IN the actual game without having to check forums and sites etc.

I have a tank that redirects damage to herself (as oposed to reducing the damage to the row/party fron III). I definitely want her to take less damage. I really didnt think too much about it, evasion is a good fit

 

[tuffy]

Also: i wish there were a way to see these things beforehand IN the actual game without having to check forums and sites etc.

The lack of real in-game numbers on anything has been an issue in the series right from the start. On one hand, it encourages players to share info with one another like the developers intended. But on the other hand, working out a good party build often forces players to the online skill simulators.

That's why getting some actual stats in EO V is such a big deal.

 

[omlet]

That's great and all but just how are you supposed to figure these intricacies out by yourself as a first timer?

By playing the game and paying attention to how things work, or by asking around. And I'm not saying that in a condescending way like "you must not be paying attention." I'm just saying that the games are designed intentionally to mask some of their math in order to encourage you to experiment and communicate with other players. Obviously not everyone has the patience to make spreadsheets of numbers or reverse engineer a rom to test the game's math, but you don't need to to get a good idea of how useful most skills are.

Personally, I thought it was a super obvious choice. I had a dancer in the front line in my party for the entire game and I saw how well she could evade attacks. I didn't need a skill calculator to tell me the exact evade chance; I already knew that it was effective. Since taunt was pulling most hits onto my fortress, that evasion boost plus the very good utility she could get with dancer subclass made it a solid pick.

There are some build that sound good in theory (and it's worse in EO3 where subclassing is a mess) but in reality, while they may work in a "you can finish the story with this" kind of way, aren't as good in practice, depending on what you're fighting. If your Fortress had unlimited turns to stack Swordbreaker debuff on everything you fought then yeah L would be a great subclass, but of course she doesn't have unlimited turns, and in fights that are challenging you probably can't afford to even spend one turn on using that skill, much less one turn every 3 turns to keep the debuff active.

 

[Pyros_Eien]

That's great and all but just how are you supposed to figure these intricacies out by yourself as a first timer? I mean i even checked a site beforehand which clearly recommended L as a viable or even great choice to subbing a Fortress so i trusted that. The justification being swordbreaker and some debuff skills like i mentioned.

Now without counter checking some other sites/number calculators etc. there's no way to possibly know that swordbreaker is VASTLY inferior in terms of activation rate to other classes skills in the same range.

Also: i wish there were a way to see these things beforehand IN the actual game without having to check forums and sites etc.

I went Dancer too, but I did a bunch of research before choosing subs and all. Most important part of the research was checking the japanese wiki which actually has values on a lot of stuff. It's also great to figure out when to take skills and how many points you put in them at first for maximum efficiency. A lot of the skills don't scale linearily and most of them also get worse per point than the previous point, meaning stopping at 2/8 or 4/8 is usually optimal early on, until you have every good skills to a decent level and just need more fillers(like at lvl 60-70+). Even the japanese wiki doesn't have numerical values for everything though.

That said, you can easily finish the game even with the "wrong" sub class, or even main class. Postgame stuff is where the min maxing matters, and at that point you can just retire your party to get the retirement bonus and get some new optimal classes and afk level them for a bit(or grind FOEs, depending on your tastes).

Dancer is cool cause the passive evasion is very strong especially with the fortress parry and damage reduction, so you take very little damage even when party blocking a multi hits aoe. It also gets Quick Step to put on your healer for quick rez or whatever if you don't have an actual dancer, and you can do basic dancing stuff for like line regen or line refresh(and you can move the fortress in other lines without any real repercussions).

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

That's great and all but just how are you supposed to figure these intricacies out by yourself as a first timer? I mean i even checked a site beforehand which clearly recommended L as a viable or even great choice to subbing a Fortress so i trusted that. The justification being swordbreaker and some debuff skills like i mentioned.

Now without counter checking some other sites/number calculators etc. there's no way to possibly know that swordbreaker is VASTLY inferior in terms of activation rate to other classes skills in the same range.

Also: i wish there were a way to see these things beforehand IN the actual game without having to check forums and sites etc.

I love the "community" part of Etrian Odyssey, I already have a team planned with several builds before I even have the game thanks to all the data we can get from Japanese players.

The skill info not being in the game is a definitely a problem if you want to play the game without any external info, but I've never had that issue.

Fortress subbed as Dancer seemed obvious to me because you want your Fortress to evade attacks as much as possible, it works pretty well.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

I love the "community" part of Etrian Odyssey, I already have a team planned with several builds before I even have the game thanks to all the data we can get from Japanese players.

The skill info not being in the game is a definitely a problem if you want to play the game without any external info, but I've never had that issue.

Fortress subbed as Dancer seemed obvious to me because you want your Fortress to evade attacks as much as possible, it works pretty well.

yeah it does... then again L seems obvious too at first glance since you could also want your Fortress to mitigate damage as much as possible which Swordbreaker SHOULD do but somehow doesn't do it satisfactorily it seems.

Also: call me crazy but i somehow didn't notice my Dancer evading attacks all THAT much ? I have 4 pts in Fan Dance, that should be enough to get most of the benefit right? (I read somewhere that more pts is not worth it for the little more benefit you get after that)

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Level 4 Fan Dance: 29% Evade (almost 1/3 chance, pretty good, but level 10 is almost 1/2 which is amazing)
Level 5 Fan Dance: 30% Evade(not worth the point if it's a subclass)
Level 10 Fan Dance: 47% Evade(totally worth it if your main class is Dancer)

Most skills aren't that great after level 4-5, but Fan Dance is pretty good. A Dancer can forever be in the front row thanks to it.

Evading is better than whatever benefits the L gives you, and it's a passive so it's even better. If you attack with your Fortress then Mist Dance is also awesome.

 

[omlet]

Also: call me crazy but i somehow didn't notice my Dancer evading attacks all THAT much ? I have 4 pts in Fan Dance, that should be enough to get most of the benefit right? (I read somewhere that more pts is not worth it for the little more benefit you get after that)

Nope.

For 4 points you are only getting the best point-for-point ratio at 29% evade boost for 4 skill points, but Fan Dance at level 10 gives like a 47% evade boost. So as a subclass skill you can stop at 4 points, but if you stop at 4 on a dancer main you are really missing out.

When you're early in the game and skill points are tight, stopping at 4 is fine for your dancer main, but later in the game your dancer will have lots of skill points and if they're on the front line it should be obvious that 47% evade boost is way better than 29%.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Ok. Does anyone know just HOW many skill pts you will have later on in the game? Or better said, will you be able to pretty much max everything by the time you hit level 70 or 80 or whatever? Because then it wouldn't be so much a matter of prioritizing but more of grinding levels to be able to max almost every skill for every class?

 

[tuffy]

At level 70 with a subclass you'll have a total of 77 skill points to distribute. At level 99, having retired at level 99 and with a subclass it maxes out at 116. Even that many points is not enough to max out all the available skills. So since you can't have it all, specialization often helps - like having an Arcanist that does binding circles or status circles, but not trying to do both.

 

[omlet]

Ok. Does anyone know just HOW many skill pts you will have later on in the game? Or better said, will you be able to pretty much max everything by the time you hit level 70 or 80 or whatever? Because then it wouldn't be so much a matter of prioritizing but more of grinding levels to be able to max almost every skill for every class?

One skill point per level, plus 5 for subclass, plus 2 (since you start at level 1 with 3 points).

You get bonus SP for retiring. Absolute maximum for a fully retired character is 116.

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

At level 70 with a subclass you'll have a total of 77 skill points to distribute. At level 99, having retired at level 99 and with a subclass it maxes out at 116. Even that many points is not enough to max out all the available skills. So since you can't have it all, specialization often helps - like having an Arcanist that does binding circles or status circles, but not trying to do both.

Ok, thanks... Damn though, so what i am often trying to do is a jack of all trades approach, so that's no good here then? Specifically with the arcanist, i am enjoying the versatility of having binds available to me at every moment but also being able to poison my enemies in random battles to make fights go by faster.

I am guessing that as usual, it's all good until Post game right?

If i even decide to go for that, i could always rest and redistribute later then.

 

[tuffy]

Ok, thanks... Damn though, so what i am often trying to do is a jack of all trades approach, so that's no good here then? Specifically with the arcanist, i am enjoying the versatility of having binds available to me at every moment but also being able to poison my enemies in random battles to make fights go by faster.

I am guessing that as usual, it's all good until Post game right?

If i even decide to go for that, i could always rest and redistribute later then.

Arcanist's poison circle is really good for when you get it so it's hard to recommend otherwise. But because poison is a fixed amount of damage, it'll become less effective at clearing random encounters later on. By then it'll be easy to take the 2 level loss and redistribute as you say, so no harm in using it to the fullest now.

 

[Nachos]

Neat:

Famitsu article (not that I can read anything from it).

 

[Zweizer]

This boxart definitely looks better than the barebones prototype. Shishou takes her rightful place under the spotlight again~

The new class is called "Furai" (no idea how to translate it).

 

[E_Darkness]

This boxart definitely looks better than the barebones prototype. Shishou takes her rightful place under the spotlight again~

The new class is called "Furai" (no idea how to translate it).

Surely it'll just be Wanderer.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Oh god that boxart and new class, soooo good.

Wanderer class is such a brilliant idea.

 

[Zweizer]

Surely it'll just be Wanderer.

Oh yeah, Shiren the Wanderer is Furai no Shiren in Japanese. This escaped my mind.

Pretty great nod to the series I must say.

 

[Zweizer]

Gematsu article for Etrian Mystery Dungeon.

Yeah, there isn't much information available for now. I wonder what "DOE" stands for though. Dungeon-On Enemy?

 

[E_Darkness]

Yeah, there isn't much information available for now. I wonder what "DOE" stands for though. Dungeon-On Enemy?

I'm really looking forward to the weird Latin name we get in English.

 

[ohlawd]

that smile on the cover looks off

please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks like this

I am, aren't I?



dammit all

 

[Zweizer]

I'm really looking forward to the weird Latin name we get in English.

...

Diritas Oppugnatura Exsequens?

I'm sure among the community it'll be "Damn Overpowered Enemy" (or something like that) though.

that smile on the cover looks off

please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks like this

I am, aren't I?



dammit all

It looks good to me, although I can see why you're a bit weirded out, because the style is kind of different from Yuji Himukai's usual designs.

 

[Anustart]

Is EO 3 a Ds game or 3ds? Also, V needs to launch now.

 

[Zweizer]

Is EO 3 a Ds game or 3ds? Also, V needs to launch now.

EO3 is the last DS game, and graphics aside I'd say it's pretty similar to IV.

I doubt V is going to be released before Q4 2015 at the earliest, considering there is Etrian Mystery Dungeon coming up.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Neat:

Famitsu article (not that I can read anything from it).

That is very neat indeed, but Protecta-Woman not glaring or yelling is kinda jarring.

 

[Zweizer]

That is very neat indeed, but Protecta-Woman not glaring or yelling is kinda jarring.

Shishou has always been rather cheerful outside of the games' portraits.

 

[spiritfox]

Shishou has always been rather cheerful outside of the games' portraits.

Avatarquote.jpg

 

[whiterabbit]

I'm much more interested in EO 5 than I am in Mystery Dungeon. I doubt I will get that unless something convinces me otherwise. I didn't really like Shiren the Wanderer DS very much. It was too hard.

EO3 is the last DS game, and graphics aside I'd say it's pretty similar to IV.

I doubt V is going to be released before Q4 2015 at the earliest, considering there is Etrian Mystery Dungeon coming up.

Yeah I wish V were coming out sooner, but I dont think it will be out for a while...

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Guys, we won't get V till 2016 and we don't even know shit about the game so don't think much about it.

Is EO 3 a Ds game or 3ds? Also, V needs to launch now.

DS, but it's amazing and you should play it anyways.

 

[Zweizer]

Avatarquote.jpg

What? (>ڡ&#9864

I'm much more interested in EO 5 than I am in Mystery Dungeon. I doubt I will get that unless something convinces me otherwise. I didn't really like Shiren the Wanderer DS very much. It was too hard.

Have you tried other Mystery Dungeon games (such as the Pokemon ones)? They are much easier. I don't think Etrian Mystery Dungeon will be much different difficulty-wise compared to the main series, so if you liked the gameplay of Shiren the Wanderer, I'd say it's worth a play.

(Or you could hope for a demo to see if it's your cup of tea or not.)

 

[whiterabbit]

Have you tried other Mystery Dungeon games (such as the Pokemon ones)? They are much easier. I don't think Etrian Mystery Dungeon will be much different difficulty-wise compared to the main series, so if you liked the gameplay of Shiren the Wanderer, I'd say it's worth a play.

(Or you could hope for a demo to see if it's your cup of tea or not.)

Yeah, I tried a demo of the Pokemon mystery dungeon game. I liked it, but I didn't buy the game. I hope there will be a demo for Etrian Mystery Dungeon. That would be cool. I'm not sure I like the gameplay that much, though. Like I said, I'm way more interested in EO V...


Also this is a completely different game, but I haven't gotten Persona Q yet either, although I did play P3 and P4 so I am familiar with Persona and Etrian Odyssey of course, so I think I would like it probably. I watched some videos and there seems like a lot of dialogue, maybe too much for my tastes.

And I'm going to start my replay of EO IV soon. Should be fun.

 

[atlusprime]

Yeah, I tried a demo of the Pokemon mystery dungeon game. I liked it, but I didn't buy the game. I hope there will be a demo for Etrian Mystery Dungeon. That would be cool. I'm not sure I like the gameplay that much, though. Like I said, I'm way more interested in EO V...


Also this is a completely different game, but I haven't gotten Persona Q yet either, although I did play P3 and P4 so I am familiar with Persona and Etrian Odyssey of course, so I think I would like it probably. I watched some videos and there seems like a lot of dialogue, maybe too much for my tastes.

And I'm going to start my replay of EO IV soon. Should be fun.

I'm gonna try and stream some EMD this week or next. Have already requested that the party members be named Fight and Heal. Will give a proper heads up once we get the schedule in, so stay tuned!

 

[whiterabbit]

I'm gonna try and stream some EMD this week or next. Have already requested that the party members be named Fight and Heal. Will give a proper heads up once we get the schedule in, so stay tuned!

Wow cool an actual Atlus rep. Thanks for making me smile. I'll look out for that.

 

[omlet]

I'm gonna try and stream some EMD this week or next. Have already requested that the party members be named Fight and Heal. Will give a proper heads up once we get the schedule in, so stay tuned!

Oh, very cool, please keep us posted and thanks for checking in!

 

[tuffy]

If EO reminds me of all those days I spent playing Wizardry, Etrian Mystery Dungeon reminds me of playing Nethack. Lots of dungeon exploration, planning moves carefully and sometimes knowing when to make a strategic retreat. I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun.

 

[E_Darkness]

I'm gonna try and stream some EMD this week or next. Have already requested that the party members be named Fight and Heal. Will give a proper heads up once we get the schedule in, so stay tuned!

Looking forward to the continued adventures of Fight and Heal.

 

[Nachos]

I'm gonna try and stream some EMD this week or next. Have already requested that the party members be named Fight and Heal. Will give a proper heads up once we get the schedule in, so stay tuned!

Awesome. Thanks, John! Any idea as for what classes you'll use, or will you just kind of wing it?

 

[crabhammer]

I should have subscribed to this thread, lol. I rarely venture out of the gaming section of GAF and was sad thinking this thread had fallen inactive because I hadn't seen it on the front page of the gaming section in a while. It was here all along!

Does anyone have a recommendation in the Mystery Dungeon series I should try if I'm interested in playing one before Etrian x MD? I think the closest thing I've probably played was Sorcery Saga: Legend of the Curry God for Vita which was kinda cute, but not extremely difficult or deep.

 

[E_Darkness]

I should have subscribed to this thread, lol. I rarely venture out of the gaming section of GAF and was sad thinking this thread had fallen inactive because I hadn't seen it on the front page of the gaming section in a while. It was here all along!

Does anyone have a recommendation in the Mystery Dungeon series I should try if I'm interested in playing one before Etrian x MD? I think the closest thing I've probably played was Sorcery Saga: Legend of the Curry God for Vita which was kinda cute, but not extremely difficult or deep.

The DS Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games from what I remember are pretty enjoyable. I don't think MD games can really be regarded as deep mind.

Spoiler

Maybe they can, but I've only ever played Pokemon MD.

 

[ohlawd]

Sorcery Saga was terrible. I got that for 12 bucks and I still felt ripped off.

It looks good to me, although I can see why you're a bit weirded out, because the style is kind of different from Yuji Himukai's usual designs.

I can dig that. Everything else looks good to me. It's just the face pretty much.