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Euro 2012 |OT| of England? You're having Olaff

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pringles

Member
GG Sheva.

Felt like a recipe for disaster to play an almost must-win opening game against the home nation. They were fired up and the swedes were shaky. No one but Zlatan could handle the ball.

I think Sweden will fight it out but not get more than a draw against both England and France. Feels shitty but it was kind of a longshot for us to make it past the group anyway.
 
In 2016, why don't they do four groups of six teams and have the top two go through to the quarters? You still get more games, but it's not too many more.

Unless I'm being a total numpty and haven't realised something blindly wrong with that...

Less excitement, since chances will be greater that some teams will be eliminated before the final group game.
 

F#A#Oo

Banned
Sweden can still make it out.

This England is poor...Ibra can slice them open better than Benzema. Sweden's defence though needs to be more organised.

Ukraine are in a good place mentally even if physically we all know there are issues. The mental strength needed for these competitions is always a major factor. It's just not something you can account for.

All in all I think its a 3 horse race between France, Sweden and Ukraine.
 

Wilbur

Banned
Sweden can still make it out.

This England is poor...Ibra can slice them open better than Benzema. Sweden's defence though needs to be more organised.

Ukraine are in a good place mentally even if physically we all know there are issues. The mental strength needed for these competitions is always a major factor. It's just not something you can account for.

All in all I think its a 3 horse race between France, Sweden and Ukraine.

Really? We draw with the best team in the group and we're out? Okay haha
 
He didn't play that bad. But his performance has less to do with him and more with the team in general and the tactics used by the coach. See his performance in club level as proof. Opposing fans have been heckling him for years, all the way back to his Man Utd days (especially after that wink incident) and it doesn't seem to bother him much. In fact, I think he likes it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcOCKd-3a-U




One was playing in a friendly while the other in the 2nd most prestigious football tournament. Sure he performed better but so what? The media loves rivalries and loves to play up the Ronaldo vs Messi saga.

The Ronaldo v Messi thing is fascinating because, whilst I can acknowledge and accept every accolade and praise of Ronaldo, I do not fear him as much as I do Messi. Ronaldo may be a more complete specimen of a player; a brilliant machine. But there is something inherently mythical about the dribbling past player after player.

I cant articulate or explain why exactly, but to me there is no comparison; Messi is on another level to Ronaldo. I would think fans would prefer the Argentine but coaches would prefer to have CR in their team.
 

Juicy Bob

Member
Yup. It would be really boring if the better teams could just cruise control through 5 games.
But then on the other hand, wouldn't that make games more exciting? Because a single loss would not be as big a problem with 5 games instead of 3, meaning teams could be less inclined to be so cagey?

I'll admit football is not one of my biggest sporting passions though, so I'm certainly not that informed about this.
 
Really? We draw with the best team in the group and we're out? Okay haha

uefa.euro.2012.group.ddcqr.gif
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
The Ronaldo v Messi thing is fascinating because, whilst I can acknowledge and accept every accolade and praise of Ronaldo, I do not fear him as much as I do Messi. Ronaldo may be a more complete specimen of a player; a brilliant machine. But there is something inherently mythical about the dribbling past player after player.

I cant articulate or explain why exactly, but to me there is no comparison; Messi is on another level to Ronaldo. I would think fans would prefer the Argentine but coaches would prefer to have CR in their team.

coaches would prefer Messi, too. The ability to get past defenders with ease is just incomparable in football as not a lot posses it and it's one skill that can completely break a defensive system.

plus Messi just doesnt have good dribbling skills, he also has excellent vision to spot incoming teammates and leave them one on one with the keepers add to that his ridiculously good finishing... I would choose Messi everytime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3vkKv8rmA8

this match shows every attribute I listed of him, perfect example of his skill set.
 

IceCold

Member
The Ronaldo v Messi thing is fascinating because, whilst I can acknowledge and accept every accolade and praise of Ronaldo, I do not fear him as much as I do Messi. Ronaldo may be a more complete specimen of a player; a brilliant machine. But there is something inherently mythical about the dribbling past player after player.

I cant articulate or explain why exactly, but to me there is no comparison; Messi is on another level to Ronaldo. I would think fans would prefer the Argentine but coaches would prefer to have CR in their team.

The way I see it is that Ronaldo is a better athlete while Messi has better footballing skills (in terms of dribbling and stuff). Both are amazing players in their own way imo.

I wonder what will happen in the future when they are retired. I hope they become BFFs and play together in those charity games lol.
 

Kozak

Banned
Thoughts on refs performance in Ukraine-Sweden game? Haven't seen much posts so I assume he was at least decent/non-controversial?
 

Gregorn

Member
I felt really bad for Sweden during those last minutes, I could feel how much they wanted to win.

Is there any way both England and Sweden can go through?
 

Wilbur

Banned
I felt really bad for Sweden during those last minutes, I could feel how much they wanted to win.

Is there any way both England and Sweden can go through?

If we draw in the next match, France and Ukraine draw, then we beat Ukraine and Sweden beat France by more than one goal
 
Thoughts on refs performance in Ukraine-Sweden game? Haven't seen much posts so I assume he was at least decent/non-controversial?


I thought they did pretty good. There were some free-kicks where there shouldn't have been, at least in my opinion, but that went both ways. Only thing they missed was when Ibrahimovic was very obviously pushed/ripped down around the penalty area in the last 25 of the game or so.
 

F#A#Oo

Banned
Alright whatever

You're dismissive but Ukraine, Sweden and France all tried to actually play positive football today in one form or another.

We're seeing the same England that just gives up the midfield...and hopes to nick goals from set-pieces and the odd counter-attacking opportunuty afforded to them. It's the same England that when they score first are just happy to sit back and soak it all up.

The last time I can remember England had a team that tried to play football and dominate games in these competitions (not friendies or qualifiers) and not give up the midfield was under Hoddle...since then it's just been the same England just turning up at these competitions and not putting in the effort to do anything other than wallow in self-pity "Oh the shirt is too heavy". The pre-game interview with Gerrard was yet another self-pity exercise. "I'm not an England legend"...

Leave that shit at home...
 

Wilbur

Banned
Okay well:

You're dismissive but Ukraine, Sweden and France all tried to actually play positive football today in one form or another.

I saw Sweden and Ukraine play positive football against one another. The only team where there's been a real underdog is Denmark vs Netherlands, and the Danes played how we did today and got commended for it; and I would say it's because they're Denmark and not this perceived giant of football (probably our media's fault). In fact, I would say ours and Denmark's performances were almost identical, but the difference is that a) Netherlands were desperately unlucky in front of goal and b) Netherlands put more effort in. How many shots did France have in the box today? They were lazy, but we defended well. We played no different to Denmark but no one levels anti-football at them.

We're seeing the same England that just gives up the midfield...and hopes to nick goals from set-pieces and the odd counter-attacking opportunuty afforded to them. It's the same England that when they score first are just happy to sit back and soak it all up.

I agree, I don't particularly like watching Gerrard and Parker lose the ball a lot and sit back to get the ball. But we were inferior to the French, and I think if we had gone for it you wouldn't be saying 'valiant effort England', you'd be laughing because we had lost 3-0. Wait until we actually play Sweden and Ukraine before you start analysing our game plan based on one match against superior opposition. We'd do the same against Spain because we're not as good as Italy and it's been proven we can beat Spain like that.

The last time I can remember England had a team that tried to play football and dominate games in these competitions (not friendies or qualifiers) and not give up the midfield was under Hoddle...since then it's just been the same England just turning up at these competitions and not putting in the effort to do anything other than wallow in self-pity "Oh the shirt is too heavy". The pre-game interview with Gerrard was yet another self-pity exercise. "I'm not an England legend"...

Leave that shit at home...

But Gerrard isn't a legend in an England shirt. He asked a question to which he gave an answer.

I would agree with you that up until this game I haven't seen England give a fuck in years. But it's stupid to say we didn't put the effort in today. If we didn't, France might have had a fucking shot in the box. We wouldn't have defended so well. We wouldn't have had injured Scott Parker busting a lung to charge down shots.

I'm one of the most pessimistic FootyGAF England fans when it comes to our chances, but writing us off because we set out to counter-attack against a ball hogging team like France? It's stupid and if I do say so, rankles a little bit of wishing an England defeat as opposed to real criticism and analysis of a team's strengths and weaknesses.
 
D

Deleted member 81567

Unconfirmed Member
ARE YOU GUYS READY FOR GREECE CZECH? 3-0 CALLING IT.
 

F#A#Oo

Banned
I'm one of the most pessimistic FootyGAF England fans when it comes to our chances, but writing us off because we set out to counter-attack against a ball hogging team like France? It's stupid and if I do say so, rankles a little bit of wishing an England defeat as opposed to real criticism and analysis of a team's strengths and weaknesses.

Ball hogging because England gave up the midfield not because France's midfield is amazing.

France didn't even trying to go through the middle it was Ribery and Nasri on the flanks with Cabaye, Malouda and Diarra keeping things ticking loaning each other the ball with what is a pale imitation of Tiki-taka. Benzema was playing deep. There is absolutely no reason why England couldn't go toe-to-toe with this France midfield.

If you were up against Zidane, Makélelé, Djorkaeff, Deschamps or Vieira I could understand but not this France midfield please...please.

p.s I think Gerrard can be called a legend...just because England as a team post-1966 never won a title internationally doesn't mean players shouldn't be recognised as legends.
 

Wilbur

Banned
Ball hogging because England gave up the midfield not because France's midfield is amazing.

France didn't even trying to go through the middle it was Ribery and Nasri on the flanks with Cabaye, Malouda and Diarra keeping things ticking loaning each other the ball with what is a pale imitation of Tiki-taka. Benzema was playing deep. There is absolutely no reason why England couldn't go toe-to-toe with this France midfield.

If you were up against Zidane, Makélelé, Djorkaeff, Deschamps or Vieira I could understand but not this France midfield please...please.

p.s I think Gerrard can be called a legend...just because England as a team never won a title internationally doesn't mean players shouldn't be recognised as legends.

Nope, France are a team that like to keep possession, pass and move. They're 22 games unbeaten and they've used the same tactics against every team under Blanc's reign.

The reason why England didn't go toe to toe with the France midfield is because France kept the ball and used the wings. If they don't use their centre midfielders how are we supposed to go toe to toe with them? :S

And Gerrard is a legend. Just not in an England shirt, which was the question.
 

Clegg

Member
I'm looking forward to Poland/Russia.

Russia were in Irelands qualifying group for the Euros so I saw them play a bit. They're a very impressive side.
 

Wilbur

Banned
I'm looking forward to Poland/Russia.

Russia were in Irelands qualifying group for the Euros so I saw them play a bit. They're a very impressive side.

Yeah I was impressed with Russia in qualifying and on Friday. Dzagoev, Shurikov and Arshavin (!) in particular.
 

Clegg

Member
I know Croatia played better than us but they didn't dominate us the way Russia did. They tore our midfield and defence to shreds with the quick passing and first touch football.

Croatia were miles better than us but they still weren't that good. 2 of their goals were a bit flukey imo. But Russia are definitely the real deal. We lost 3-2 to Russia at home. Russia were 3-0 up at half time and we only came back because they took their foot off the gas. We drew 0-0 in Moscow only because Richard Dunne and Shay Given put on magnificent individual performances.

They are a very very good team.
 

F#A#Oo

Banned
Nope, France are a team that like to keep possession, pass and move. They're 22 games unbeaten and they've used the same tactics against every team under Blanc's reign.

The reason why England didn't go toe to toe with the France midfield is because France kept the ball and used the wings. If they don't use their centre midfielders how are we supposed to go toe to toe with them? :S

And Gerrard is a legend. Just not in an England shirt, which was the question.

Wut...? France can only have as much of the ball as England is willing to give to them. See the Italy vs Spain game.

You agree that England gave the midfield up but it's not because France is amazing in that dept but because there was absolutely no effort to even control it by England. Yeah France used the flanks...because England just wanted to stay compact in around their own third. So then France had the whole midfield to just loan each other the ball. England could have done a high pressing game. Yet they opted for compact third.

So you fear France's 22 games unbeaten run?

Yet you dismiss the history and record that England has never beaten Sweden in a competitive match. :?

You're picking and choosing facts and history to suit you...

England could have won today but they reverted to bad habits. That should be troubling you...for me that's 3 points England didn't get...not a point gained.
 

Wilbur

Banned
Wut...? France can only have as much of the ball as England is willing to give to them. See the Italy vs Spain game.

You agree that England gave the midfield up but it's not because France is amazing in that dept but because there was absolutely no effort to even control it by England. Yeah France used the flanks...because England just wanted to stay compact in around their own third. So then France had the whole midfield to just loan each other the ball. England could have done a high pressing game. Yet they opted for compact third.

So you fear France's 22 games unbeaten run?

Yet you dismiss the history and record that England has never beaten Sweden in a competitive match. :?

You're picking and choosing facts and history to suit you...

England could have won today but they reverted to bad habits. That should be troubling you...for me that's 2 points England didn't game not a point gained.

France are the type of team that control the ball. I'm not saying I fear France's unbeaten run, you've completely got the wrong end of the stick. I'm saying that throughout a 22 match run they've played a possession based game that has worked for them because it's unbeaten. They're hardly going to come up against the mighty England and suddenly have 25% of the ball. Hodgson is nothing if not a sharp tactician; it's fucking dull but he knows that France are technically superior and they'll keep the ball. If we had pushed forward, tried to play high tempo football in their half, they also have the players available to hit us on the counter.

It's not about picking and choosing facts and history because like I say, you've picked it up wrong. History is bollocks, the fact we haven't beaten Sweden in 10 games or whatever means nothing because the majority of them are in times that all the players have retired. However this France side have gone 22 teams unbeaten with this team and these tactics, and that's why they're relevant as opposed to some bollocks history that means... nothing.

England can't play a high pressing game in that heat and with those players, because they don't play that type of football at club level and neither does Hodgson. You seem to be surprised at how England turned out; I wasn't, no one else was. They turned out exactly as we thought they would, and their game plan worked. They restricted Benzema, Cabaye, Nasri and Ribery to long shots.

It would have been nice to control the ball but our midfield consisted of:

* 18 year old AOC in his first tournament game
* Scott Parker who is good at running around and tackling but not really on the ball
* Steven Gerrard who is average in the centre as opposed to being further up the field
* James Fucking Milner

France's 3 may not have been anything special, but by saying we should have had them means you're wildly overestimating England's midfield. It seems like you're judging some sort of idealised version of England where we've played brilliant football for years and Hodgson is known for Barcelona like pressing and pass and move... it's no surprise that we turned up like this, but what is rather surprising is that it worked effectively and we shut out a talented team.
 

IceCold

Member
I think that Ronaldo will retire much quicker than Messi...Messi will drop back when he gets older IMO. He's very intelligent with the ball.

I wouldn't say much quicker. Ronaldo is pretty committed to the sport and doesn't lead a party lifestyle. I doubt he'll burn out like R9 or Ronaldinho. Given their difference playing styles, Messi's style is more sustainable but I don't see why Ronaldo wouldn't be able to adapt if his athleticism starts to wear out.
 
I'm getting pretty nervous about tomorrow's game against Poland. Hopefully they won't be overconfident after that win against the czechs and don't play like the lazy bums they usually are.

And Kerzhakov please bring your shooting boots, I feel like were gonna need it since Berezutski can only contain his innate desire to put on a hilarious defensive display for so long.

I'm expecting something like a 2-2 draw but I'm fearing the worst (our shitty fans doing something dumb and giving us an auto-loss).
 
I wouldn't say much quicker. Ronaldo is pretty committed to the sport and doesn't lead a party lifestyle. I doubt he'll burn out like R9 or Ronaldinho. Given their difference playing styles, Messi's style is more sustainable but I don't see why Ronaldo wouldn't be able to adapt if his athleticism starts to wear out.

True lol.

I was just thinking in terms of intelligence and vision with the ball... Obviously Messi is much quicker at making decisions on the pitch than everyone else lol
 

Tawpgun

Member
I'm looking forward to Poland/Russia.

Russia were in Irelands qualifying group for the Euros so I saw them play a bit. They're a very impressive side.

I'm only hoping Poland (and pretty much the rest of the world, but especially Poland's) hate for Russia will give us an edge.

But that's wishful thinking.
 

leadbelly

Banned
Really? We draw with the best team in the group and we're out? Okay haha

Yeah. I kind of buy into the idea that those two matches are potentially tougher for England though. The reason being, they a matches they have to win now. They have to pretty much control those games. For that to happen they need to improve possession wise.
 

Wilbur

Banned
Yeah. I kind of buy into the idea that those two matches are potentially tougher for England though. The reason being, they a matches they have to win now. They have to pretty much control those games. For that to happen they need to improve possession wise.

I understand that, we need to improve and control these games. But saying it's a three way fight between them and excluding us is a little odd to me.
 

leadbelly

Banned
I understand that, we need to improve and control these games. But saying it's a three way fight between them and excluding us is a little odd to me.

I certainly believe we can do it. I just think they're not straightforward at all. We need to be more positive going forward in those games. Possession of course is the key. An area England have been quite poor in recent years.
 

Wilbur

Banned
Poland x Russia will be good.

Germany x Holland will be god-tier.

Really looking forward to tomorrow. I think unless Holland burst out of the fucking traps they're going out. They need to get an early goal and then keep at it. Germany looked far more vulnerable against Portugal than I expected them to.

I certainly believe we can do it. I just think they're not straightforward at all. We need to be more positive going forward in those games. Possession of course is the key. An area England have been quite poor in recent years.

Calling it, we draw 1-1 with Sweden while France beat Ukraine, and then we beat Ukraine 1-0 in the last match with some fucking nervy moments as Shevchenko hits the bar.
 

Kinan

Member
Back from the stadium, Kiev is celebrating whole night today! What a great evening! Very brave game from Ukraine today, athmosphere at the stadium was so amazing, excellent performance from both sweden and our fans. Hope still lives!
 

leadbelly

Banned
Calling it, we draw 1-1 with Sweden while France beat Ukraine, and then we beat Ukraine 1-0 in the last match with some fucking nervy moments as Shevchenko hits the bar.

lol

That certainly sounds like the English way. England would probably keep giving the fucking ball away as well. Just building more and more pressure on themselves.
 
Back from the stadium, Kiev is celebrating whole night today! What a great evening! Very brave game from Ukraine today, athmosphere at the stadium was so amazing, excellent performance from both sweden and our fans. Hope still lives!

Was at fan zone in Lviv! An incredible evening!!
 
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