The EU is above all a trade union.
China is trying to flood EU market with its dumped goods (see the steel for example), against which the EU is fighting. A week EU would definitively profit China.
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European Council President says Trump poses threat to Europe
- Thread starter -Plasma Reus-
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The EU is above all a trade union.
China is trying to flood EU market with its dumped goods (see the steel for example), against which the EU is fighting. A week EU would definitively profit China.
Felix Lighter
Member
Trump is such a buffoon on top of his administrative policies, how could any foreign country trust the US to vote sensibly in the future? A slick, charismatic fascist may make some kind of sense but Trump shows that speaking coherent english isn't even a requirement.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Chinese internet propaganda must be really on point recently. Or maybe it's just the global money people protecting their investments by talking sweet about them.
China is a massive currency manipulator and the EU is in a similar point of stress to the US due to the trade defecit. Furthermore China has no respect for copyright and is constantly using hacking to steal trade secrets. This is bad news for advanced economies in Europe.
Then for politics you have the Chinese human rights abuses that are seen as totally unacceptable in Europe. As is their aggressive military position. Arms sales to China are banned in the EU.
Then you just have the global stability threat of their over heated economy collapsing.
Naturally they have to pretend to love them in trade deals and so on.
crimsondynamics
Member
![fFaltm7.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/fFaltm7.jpg])
Hand size looks about right.
TotalHorlicks
Banned
Yep. Trump is a Chump, No doubt. But what I hear the loudest is foaming at the mouth, rabbit liberals.
Well seeing that ZeeGermans tend to call the shots in the non-apparent equal E.U, it's a horrific horror of proportions untold.
You've been watching to much BBC mate. If the E.U really wanted to keep NATO they would pay the 2% of GDP like agreed?
Nope, Germany only pays 1% because they don't want to pay; They want an E.U army.
CrispyBoar
Banned
I agree, & sadly, I'm an American who has to deal with this mess because of those idiots that voted for him along with the 57% of voters who sat at home & didn't vote against him.
People who want an EU army are liberals? When did that happen?
There is no such agreement.
The agrrement is to try and reach 2% GDP spent by each member state on its own army; not to NATO (Germany pays almost as much as the US for the direct NATO budget). An EU army would actually help to achieve just that, and would strengthen NATO.
LegendofJoe
Member
America's leadership can't be trusted, but there are millions of us that are deeply disturbed by where they're taking us. Personally, I'll be an ally to the EU from now until the day I draw my last breath. I believe in the EU more than I do my own country. I still have faith that we will defeat the march towards nationalism though, as increasingly naive as that may seem.
United in diversity, now and forever.
I wonder if they get the threads allocated somehow as it's always one per thread.
TotalHorlicks
Banned
What are you implying exactly??
So basically what i'm hearing from you folks is, if you didn't vote for Hillary specifically based on your principles, or didn't support the broken two party system and voted third party based on your principles, you are just as bad as a Trump supporter.
That's some democracy.
Yet if you claim to fight against Trump in a march or a protest based on your principles, your good?
If Hillary for example had attacked Syria on her own time, destroyed the government there and displaced Assad which created a failed state that we put a no fly zone under which put us in direct arms distance of Russia(which she said she was going to do during her debates) would that be what the people voted for, they owned that?
We vote based on the ideas these politicians sell to the public, i thought that was the idea?
I might create a thread based on that actually.
"Is voting with your principles equal to being the bad guy?"
I always thought that if Hillary was the democratic nominee against Trump, she would lose or it would be very close. Its not something i feel is something i own because others clearly made the wrong choice somewhere.
On the other hand, i feel like its more complicated than that, because Trump won, yet all the people who voted for Clinton were invalidated anyway because of how our electoral system works.
So does voting in this case even matter if say you voted for Jill stein out in California but didn't even have anything to do with the electoral votes needed to get Trump into office?
You were excusing the whole country. I don't blame individuals, but the USA as a whole has to just hold that.
TotalHorlicks
Banned
Not always, but context *absolutely* matters. In this particular case it makes you a naive fool, because you ignored the danger at your door for a nonsense candidate. You should own the fact that you're a fool and move past it. Not everybody that voted for Jill Stein resided in California and in some cases they absolutely could have made a difference.
Looking at her twitter she continues to be a trash person, just as she was before the election.
Lord Frieza
Member
You can blow up TN first. I'll take the L.
Nah, I mean, he's on the backburner, but I think if anything his ties to Trump has made him a much bigger boogeyman. He's just not the immediate one...as of now.
I didn't vote for Jill Stein myself, i wrote in Bernie's name because i voted for him in the primaries
But i posed the question because, regardless of the extreme, the essential point stays the same in every election.Do the people who didn't vote for the one most likely to win, who then loses, have the blame when they were likely never going to vote for that person to start with?
It reminds me of a chart Rachel maddow put out right after the election saying that if all the jill stein voters and all the gary johnson voters voted for hillary, she would have won(which i think makes no sense to start with because gary johnson voters were never voting for Hillary anyway)
It makes you wonder what the point of democracy is if it comes to the point where it doesn't matter who votes how as long as it is for a specific person that others champion.
I didn't vote for Jill Stein myself, i wrote in Bernie's name because i voted for him in the primaries
This bullshit is even worse. Frankly for your pathetic symbolism and lack of shame, I'd say you deserve the country you get. Too bad everyone else has to suffer for idiotic acts like this, among others.
It's simple, really. You either vote pragmatically or idealistically.I didn't vote for Jill Stein myself, i wrote in Bernie's name because i voted for him in the primaries
Do the people who didn't vote for the one most likely to win, who then loses, have the blame when they were likely never going to vote for that person to start with?
It reminds me of a chart Rachel maddow put out right after the election saying that if all the jill stein voters and all the gary johnson voters voted for hillary, she would have won(which i think makes no sense to start with because gary johnson voters were never voting for Hillary anyway)
It makes you wonder what the point of democracy is if it comes to the point where it doesn't matter who votes how as long as it is a a specific person.
This was a race between Trump and Clinton and every single voter knew that going in. Now someone like you probably felt pretty good leaving that voting booth, but what you really did was throw your vote away.
I hope the leaders understand this and get their shit together. A divided Europe is lost, a United one can stand to outlive.
You remember the three states where Stein sued for a recount. The difference between trump and Clinton was smaller than the amount of stein votes.
Your being unfair i feel.
Basically, people can't exercise their rights when you say so because your afraid of the outcome.
I knew the danger Trump posed, that's why i specifically did not support what the Democrats were doing during the general, or what they did during the primaries, and i was hoping they corrected course which they never did. That was my 'principled stance'.
They were always going to lose a specific segment of people plus more how they were acting. And it is not up to the voters to make up for their failures.
How we oppose Trump and his administration now is more or less about reacting to a mistake that was made.
Felix Lighter
Member
I didn't vote for Jill Stein myself, i wrote in Bernie's name because i voted for him in the primaries
Do the people who didn't vote for the one most likely to win, who then loses, have the blame when they were likely never going to vote for that person to start with?
It reminds me of a chart Rachel maddow put out right after the election saying that if all the jill stein voters and all the gary johnson voters voted for hillary, she would have won(which i think makes no sense to start with because gary johnson voters were never voting for Hillary anyway)
It makes you wonder what the point of democracy is if it comes to the point where it doesn't matter who votes how as long as it is for a specific person that others champion.
I give you a half share of the blame compared to a Trump voter. I'm sure Bernie didn't appreciate the write in either. I don't absolve those that chose this point in time to make a protest vote. I don't absolve those that chose to stay at home. The system is fucked but the system isn't secret, the reality of what could happen was known.
I voted for Clinton and I still feel guilty because I must not have done enough. I know Trump voters and 3rd party voters I didn't push on very hard because I was convinced she had it in the bag and I feel the guilt more so because I live in PA.
Are you really this delusional? For real?
It is up to those voters and the non voters to lay in the bed they made though.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
Look at the post history.
But think about it this way for a second. An individual can't force everyone who has misgivings in a democratic state to vote their way to avoid a specific outcome. There were millions of people who either knew what was coming and didn't feel the need to respond, or those people who didn't understand the nature of what was happening until afterward.
There were tons of Trump folks who eagerly wanted to destroy this country. But i feel there were tons of non trump voters who felt like the party supposed to be in opposition to the one Trump was leading let them down.
Is that the party in question's fault, or the voter for being disillusioned?
Your rights mean jack shit if what your vote does is meaningless. You essentially said "my vote does not matter and I feel good about it". In which case you have partial ownership of the outcome. It means you're ambivalent to the fascist outcome.
Nah. As a Bernie supporter myself, if Hillary were president none of this would be happening. yes it wouldn't be the ideal you imagined under Sanders, but it would still not be a fascist America. Could have worked on the system while we still had the power, now the chance for change is just gone. Voters like you betrayed Sanders that wanted no part of your stance either, but worse, you all betrayed this country by not doing your part to stop a dictator from gaining power.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Well, at least almost as bad, certainly. Your actions contributed to the election of a fascist.
You live in reality, not in an idealistic world. If voting "with your principles" contributes to a fascist getting elected because of the way the system is set, then don't fucking vote with your principles and stop the fascist from getting elected.
Well that's some mighty convenient handwaving right there. "Others made the wrong choice so my wrong choice is OK and not my fault guys!"
Yup.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
It's painful to read this. It's so disheartening to see how America was essentially betrayed voters who only cared about their candidate and their own ego, rather than protecting the country, and their own lives, from the man who is going to destroy everything. Trump is a fascist, taking over the country and the system with force, we are all in perilous times.
Is that fault also reserved for the Dems themselves who didn't even campaign in many of the places they lost because they felt assured in their victory though?
I can understand what your saying. You feel like voters are the ones who have to pick up the slack and swallow their tongues and not the people in power.
I don't agree, but i feel like it would atleast be fine if those with that viewpoint acknowledged that its not the citizen's entire responsibility to move electoral parties based on nothing but their own will and a faint chance that those parties will move to their will.
The voters themselves are to blame for voting or not voting in the right way, but the politicians also have to make the right moves to motivate people to bother to support them.
In general, the voting bloc of people in this country has shrunk population wise over the decades, and we need to look at that as well.
That you're still defending your awful choices means to me that you're utterly disconnected from the reality in which you live, were I in your position I'd be feeling extremely foolish and ashamed to admit the shit you did. People love to call the Trump voters utterly deluded, but at least they voted for an *actual* candidate.
You don't get to shift the blame for your choices in life.
I don't think voting with your principles makes you a bad guy, but as I said in the post you quoted me on, I think there is a problem when you don't vote at all, and then complain afterwards that "This is isn't what I wanted." You had a chance to say what you wanted, and instead you chose to remain at home.
I don't agree with Trump, and I don't agree with Trump voters, even though some of them are my in-laws, but at least these people--as misdirected as their decision may be to me--went out and actually stayed true to their convictions. I'll likely never see eye to eye with that conviction, but they had the power to determine how they wanted their country to be run, and they took action to realize it.
If you do nothing at all, especially if your excuse is "I don't feel like it," "I'm too tired today," or "It doesn't matter anyway, who cares," and THEN after everything that's happened, cry "THIS SUCKS, WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?" I think you effectively negated your right to complain.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Not a bad guy, but a useful idiot to the bad guys, at least.
I hope you don't get stepped on either. Clearly the UK should get the right to vote if they should be a fascist state's lapdog, feeding on table scraps.
I find it interesting that some Americans actually believe that Russia is their ally now. The only reason Putin interfered with the US election was to ensure the fall of the US. Russia does not want the US to be a superpower anymore. Ensuring that they self destruct was the whole plan. Putin the puppet master playing them perfectly.
Americans actually believing that Russia is going to suddenly help the US is hilarious.
Americans actually believing that Russia is going to suddenly help the US is hilarious.
Unknown One
Member
It's majorly the stupid Republican voters. They tend to fall in line just like their representative in office.
You don't have to go that far to character assassinate someone. You've seen my posts from long before this, you know what i believe and atleast policy wise, i'd assume i'm not too far from you.
My original point from the first post i made a few pages ago, was that due to our electoral system, it didn't even matter what you or i may have wanted or even voted for, because that was not what decided our current situation. It was a technicality of the rules that gave disproportionate weight to some states. The electoral college.
In that situation, does my vote automatically make me a target to be criticized, when that was never going to be the way this was decided?
I live in a solid blue state(NJ), so i'm fairly privileged in who i can vote for without having to worry about my state. But for those in swing states its a different story. Who should get blame then?
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Just catching up on today's press conference and oh wow how questions are just shut down or ignored is amazing. We need a thread for each of these soon -.-
gutter_trash
Banned
I totally agree.
it's insane that other senior Republicans are letting Trump get away with it.
It's like the party doesn't care about the ramifications, they only care about the politics.
It is also insane that Americans in general don't realize that they are beign played.
Putin wants a weak US and a weak Europe.
Russia's economy is total shit, and he wants to drag the ''West'' down to be on the same level of shit
Lord Frieza
Member
Yep, Bernie himself said this was not the election, of all elections, for a protest vote. Bernie or Busters were just as guilty as everyone else in this, no matter how much they want to squirm out of it. I understand a protest vote, a vote for a third party to maybe get federal funding, etc. But this wasn't the election for that shit. Bernie himself told them this. Everyone else told them this.
I feel like those who say that what they believe in doesn't matter because they are just going to be taken advantage of by more powerful people is a pretty big sentiment in the US unfortunately.
I gathered my family in the living room and actually went on an hour spiel during the primaries about how it was very important that we all went out and supported Bernie.
My parents beforehand wavered between Hillary and Bernie, but my sister and cousins were all of the mind that politics were a game that nobody won and it didn't matter anyway who they voted. Even when i went into depth about money in politics and political corruption and how voting affected change on the top and bottom, they were still disinterested and largely apathetic about going into the voting booth.
It was surreal considering how important politics had been for me ever since Obama was elected.
You can't complain about your lot in life and still be disconnected from current events, yet it seems like almost everyone that i know is, especially in my age group. They don't watch politics, don't listen to it and don't believe in it most importantly
I don't think it's "like" anymore, I think it simply is.
My own theory now is that they know a coup is in progress and they don't want to be listed among the dissidents when the monarchy/empire is announced, so they're just playing along now in order to get a good position when things revert back to a King with his court. They've already given up on a republic and just want to make sure they have a good seat at the new Imperial Court as a "trusted noble."
jellies_two
Member
I thought this topic was how bad trump was for EU unity it seems a page on Jill stein
Ukraine?
Putin?
Come on guys
The EU feels like nirvana vs the dystopia potentially ahead for the USA at this point,
If the USA turns into Russia with the Stars and Stripes, corporate oligarchy Christianity to shut the people up and a despot, what can the EU do to defend itself and not be fractured into competing states, ones that Putin need just nudge.
Ukraine?
Putin?
Come on guys
The EU feels like nirvana vs the dystopia potentially ahead for the USA at this point,
If the USA turns into Russia with the Stars and Stripes, corporate oligarchy Christianity to shut the people up and a despot, what can the EU do to defend itself and not be fractured into competing states, ones that Putin need just nudge.
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