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[poppabk]

I'm pretty sure I told my now wife that she was 'exotic' when we first met, I didn't realize I was being racist, and I guess neither did she.

 

[N7Slayer24]

I don't think the article is saying it's an offensive word it's just you shouldn't use to describe a human being whether or not you meant it as a compliment.

I don't see why not? Not sure how it's any different from "beautiful" "hot" "fine" or "cute"

Now I wouldn't go around calling random strangers those adjectives, but I don't see how exotic is any more "offensive" or "objectifying" than the terms I mentioned.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

The reason I only date white women is because they're so exotic.

 

[Lesath]

Not too come off as some sort of dictionary thumper, but you're trying to make an argument based on conflating nouns and adjectives.

Oh, so you have nothing. Okay.

 

[RockTurtle]

This entire discussion is about how using the word "exotic" to describe a person is tactless.

You could say it to somebody who is the exact same ethnicity as you, sure. You COULD do anything.

Nor is it necessarily not racist to use the word to describe somebody of the same ethnicity as you, if you're doing it because of their look (i.e., they're browner).




I'm not sure why you keep saying this like it's a magic word. Yes, in the infinite vastness of the universe, containing within it a never-ending multiplicity of possible events, you could interact with people who found it complimentary to be called exotic, and if you could identify that situation, you could safely use the word.

If you can actually identify every social situation perfectly and the appropriate phrases and actions to take, then many discussions about social graces will seem foreign to you.

But many people use the word "exotic" in situations where the people they're talking to will be offended, and they should stop doing that unless it's their explicit goal.

this is an assumption based on your location and not necessarily the norm.

 

[Infinite]

Which is just silly, because not all human beings will be offended by it as a compliment.

I know human beings who would take it well. Does the fact that people exist who wouldn't take it well mean I shouldn't use it to compliment the people who would?

This is how language behaves. Words have different meanings depending on context and the relationship of the people it's used amongst. You knowing people who take "exotic" as nothing more than a compliment doesn't mean there isn't people who wouldn't. So it would be wise to refrain from using that word outside of that relationship considering the argument the article in question put forth on its usage.

 

[Van Owen]

A world where intent doesn't matter.

Amazing.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

No one here is associating it with the word weird

Yes they are:

Because the world only operates on literal definitions?

I've occasionally seen the odd hot Indian woman in a sari being told, "oooh, you're so exotic". Do you know what that really says: "you are a weird oddity in this area and/or my impression of you is defined entirely by your ethnicity".

I guarantee you that it is nearly always experienced as a racist statement by the person hearing it, which is the entire point of this thread.

You might not consciously be thinking "oh, this person is 'strikingly unusual'", but as you point out, that's what the word you're using actually means. Not only is calling somebody unusual not a compliment, I don't consider myself unusual. So what you're really saying is "I think you're weird because of how different you are from me, but I like that."

How nuanced!

 

[Aβydoς]

Aw come the fuck on.

 

[Infinite]

A world where intent doesn't matter.

Amazing.

Intent =! Impact. If you accidentally stepped on my toe meaning you didn't intend to step on my toe you still impacted me with pain and still owe me an apology.

 

[Zoe]

I never thought "exotic" was meant to separate someone from the rest of their race, probably because it gets liberally applied regardless of actual attractiveness precisely because of the person's race (specifically Asian/Pacific Islander).

 

[ishibear]

this is an assumption based on your location and not necessarily the norm.

Whether it's the norm is irrelevant.

Why should you automatically assume someone wants to be called that instead of assuming they don't until proven otherwise?

This is what I'm talking about. Compliments have shit to do with trying to flatter someone. It's all about releasing your personal feelings onto them and expecting them to accept it no matter what.

 

[many places]

I can somewhat sympathize with being called exotic because when i went to China as a white male, I felt "exotic" in that i was being stared at and asked to take pictures with not because of who i am, but because of my skin, brown hair, and blue eyes. So it makes a lot of sense how people being called exotic in the US might feel kinda put off by being labelled as something to be "examined" as opposed to being enjoyed as a human being.

 

[jerry1594]

Can PSA's be made anymore without annoying enunciation for every word?

 

[jasonng]

I suppose then it has gained additional meaning in your region than it has ever had in mine. I've never heard exotic to have animalistic undertones and that its association to animals is as strong as its association to a foreign art style.

Perhaps this is more an American thing then. I will admit that there is a very nuanced history in the States which carries undercurrents of tension and demeaning towards race that I do not comprehend. I have never heard exotic used for a black person who isn't, say, dressed out of the local norm. I've heard authentic French cuisine called exotic and it wasn't meant to indicate it was base or only fit for animals.

It's interesting. We have such a huge clash of different cultures and backgrounds that it's common to be exposed to something new. In that sense, it's okay to use the word exotic to describe a foreign art or object. At the same time, and because these cultures have already been established here in the US, they're not considered foreign. So when it is used to describe a person, it's baffling because the recipient would probably not consider any of his or her features different or foreign.

 

[pigeon]

this is an assumption based on your location and not necessarily the norm.

What is the hypothetical location you're describing where people use "exotic" in a non-racist manner?

 

[Zakalwe]

This entire discussion is about how using the word "exotic" to describe a person is tactless.

You could say it to somebody who is the exact same ethnicity as you, sure. You COULD do anything.

Nor is it necessarily not racist to use the word to describe somebody of the same ethnicity as you, if you're doing it because of their look (i.e., they're browner).

I'm not sure why you keep saying this like it's a magic word. Yes, in the infinite vastness of the universe, containing within it a never-ending multiplicity of possible events, you could interact with people who found it complimentary to be called exotic, and if you could identify that situation, you could safely use the word.

If you can actually identify every social situation perfectly and the appropriate phrases and actions to take, then many discussions about social graces will seem foreign to you.

But many people use the word "exotic" in situations where the people they're talking to will be offended, and they should stop doing that unless it's their explicit goal.

I don't understand why you're arguing with me here.

I've already acknowledged it's niche, and there will be better words to use in many occasions.

I also think you're underestimating the amount of people who would find it a compliment, but maybe I'm basing that too much on anecdotal stuff. Who knows.

Still, the point remains, the compliment itself isn't inherently bad.

 

[N7Slayer24]

This is how language behaves. Words have different meanings depending on context and the relationship of the people it's used amongst. You knowing people who take "exotic" as nothing more than a compliment doesn't mean there isn't people who wouldn't. So it would be wise to refrain from using that word outside of that relationship considering the argument the article in question put forth on its usage.

You could say this about any word that a certain group of people find offense. Over the internet, I've ran across quite a few women that have said they hate being called beautiful BY ANYONE, because they feel the word objectifies them and they don't like having their physical appearance being judged at all.

Now are we supposed to stop using that word to describe people just because a few people found it uncomfortable?

 

[pigeon]

Yes they are:

I am quoting the definition of the person I'm responding to in that post. You'll have to take it up with him.

 

[Moral Panic]

I can't think of any situation in which a person can be called "exotic" and it being a compliment.

 

[ishibear]

I can't think of any situation in which a person can be called "exotic" and it being a compliment.

Exactly. It's so fucking creepy.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Y'know I think it's actually kind of disappointing that some people react so negatively to being told that they look different. I really enjoy standing out.

 

[Zakalwe]

You could say this about any word that a certain group of people find offense. Over the internet, I've ran across quite a few women that have said they hate being called beautiful BY ANYONE, because they feel the word objectifies them and they don't like having their physical appearance being judged at all.

Now are we supposed to stop using that word to describe people just because a few people found it uncomfortable?

Exactly this.

I can't think of any situation in which a person can be called "exotic" and it being a compliment.

I know a lot of people in the trans gender community who would love to be called exotic. The friend I mention above is the example I immediately think of, he's incredibly flamboyant and loves to stand out.

So, there's one.

I'm not saying I would even use it, but I know it would be suitable there.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I am quoting the definition of the person I'm responding to in that post. You'll have to take it up with him.

??

The guy you quoted never used the word "weird"

 

[Cagey]

I can't think of any situation in which a person can be called "exotic" and it being a compliment.

Exactly. It's so fucking creepy.

Great, my wife's using a racist word, denigrating herself and others rather than giving a compliment, and now she's also creepy.

 

[pigeon]

I don't understand why you're arguing with me here.

Because your position is academically true but practically meaningless and so advancing it is detrimental to communication.

Yes, the word "always" is fraught with peril* because there are exceptions to every rule. This is so obvious as to not be worth stating. Why are you stating it, here, now?


* usually

 

[jasonng]

Y'know I think it's actually kind of disappointing that some people react so negatively to being told that they look different. I really enjoy standing out.

I enjoy standing out but not because of my ethnic background.

If I had a third eye on my forehead then hell yeah, call me exotic.

 

[Infinite]

You could say this about any word that a certain group of people find offense. Over the internet, I've ran across quite a few women that have said they hate being called beautiful BY ANYONE, because they feel the word objectifies them and they don't like having their physical appearance being judged at all.

Now are we supposed to stop using that word to describe people just because a few people found it uncomfortable?

Normally if a person doesn't like a word you're using with them they will probably let you know why and request that you stop. In the case of the word "exotic" the article in question put forth a good argument as to why you shouldn't casually use it at as a compliment for another person.

 

[MutFox]

Never used it, but have heard it used, always as a compliment.
Though I did see someone get bothered by it once, then the person saying it said
"Exotic not erotic" and then the person liked the compliment.

 

[RockTurtle]

What is the hypothetical location you're describing where people use "exotic" in a non-racist manner?

dominican republic.

Whether it's the norm is irrelevant.

Why should you automatically assume someone wants to be called that instead of assuming they don't until proven otherwise?

This is what I'm talking about. Compliments have shit to do with trying to flatter someone. It's all about releasing your personal feelings onto them and expecting them to accept it no matter what.

because that's how human interaction works in some places. you won't know what is someone's limits or what their whims are until you interact.

Some people like to give compliments. some people like to receive. For example, i now know you don't like to be called exotic because of this thread. but it took you responding to the word to find out. i wasn't going to guess because where i'm from it's a term of endearment and often coveted.

so if we had met in person, had conversation and i referred to you as exotic and you would have been offended you would have let me know. and now i KNOW. and from them forth i would take into account that you and maybe the people in this area don't think of it in a positive manner. but that's because your background is not the same as mine, and i won't know until i take that chance.

so in this case, using it with you will take on the definition based on a negative context. but only with you. not with my family or MY general area.

 

[N7Slayer24]

What is the hypothetical location you're describing where people use "exotic" in a non-racist manner?

Can we please stop pigeon holing the word into only meaning race?

It could mean different eye color, nail color, hairstyle, language, behavior, clothing, etc.

 

[jasonng]

You could say this about any word that a certain group of people find offense. Over the internet, I've ran across quite a few women that have said they hate being called beautiful BY ANYONE, because they feel the word objectifies them and they don't like having their physical appearance being judged at all.

Now are we supposed to stop using that word to describe people just because a few people found it uncomfortable?

But it's just not a few people. We're talking about a community of people who gets called exotic.

 

[Two Words]

People that call other people "exotic" because they don't fit in one of their racial boxes would rather just have a catch-all racial box for those people instead of expanding their preset racial boxes or throwing away the boxes entirely.

 

[Zakalwe]

Because your position is academically true but practically meaningless and so advancing it is detrimental to communication.

Yes, the word "always" is fraught with peril* because there are exceptions to every rule. This is so obvious as to not be worth stating. Why are you stating it, here, now?


* usually

The entire point of this thread is the argument the person in the video made: you should NEVER call human beings exotic.

Which is absolutely not true.

People in this thread are also saying "I can't think of any time it would ever be taken well". Which just shows they don't know people who would take it well. but they're basing their entire judgement of the use of the words on their own experience.

I think you're massively underplaying just how many people would take it as a compliment. The word isn't as dangerous as people are making it out to be imo, and just because it's niche doesn't mean the times I could be used well are rare enough for this to be "practically meaningless".

 

[Mumei]

A world where intent doesn't matter.

Amazing.

I don't think it's amazing, or perhaps you're necessarily understanding what is being asserted. If you've hurt or offended someone, no, your intent does not bear any influence on how they should feel about what you've said. I don't think anyone would deny that hurting or offending someone intentionally is worse than offending or hurting someone unintentionally, so it matters in that sense. But if it was unintentional, you should simply apologize and move on, rather than mounting a defense that you didn't mean it the way they received it and that they are wrong to have been offended. I guarantee you it'll be better received than apologetics.

(I'm sure there are exceptions to this general rule, like a person who takes umbrage at being called something because they confused it with another word, or don't know what the word actually means; please don't be annoying by bringing up situations like that.)

 

[BeesEight]

It's interesting. We have such a huge clash of different cultures and backgrounds that it's common to be exposed to something new. In that sense, it's okay to use the word exotic to describe a foreign art or object. At the same time, and because these cultures have already been established here in the US, they're not considered foreign. So when it is used to describe a person, it's baffling because the precipitant would probably not consider any of his or her features different or foreign.

True, I think most people who get called exotic likely wouldn't think of themselves as so. I think the frequency of the word is diminished the larger the city or population of the area. I obviously don't record where I hear it but I feel like my family in smaller towns are more likely to comment on things being exotic than my Aunt who has lived in many countries. In that regard, American has an advantage because they are so big and have such a large mix of cultures and peoples. But when you have smaller, more homogenized towns, even an Italian can seem exotic simply because of her darker hair.

 

[ishibear]

Great, my wife's using a racist word, denigrating herself and others rather than giving a compliment, and now she's also creepy.

Your wife and I are two totally different women, we've never met, never spoken, lived different lives.

What she likes is on her. I think the word is creepy and ostracising. Doesn't mean either of us are invalid. Women are not hiveminds. So I expect you to know that just because she's cool with it, that doesn't mean all women are.

 

[kehs]

Oh, so you have nothing. Okay.

You make some asinine argument after acusing people of dictionary thumping, and I'm the one that has nothing to say?

Calling someone a specimen is in an entirely different league than describing how them come across to you.

I'm sorry if you're idea of dictionary thumping means understanding language.

 

[davepoobond]

I think any descriptive word is particularly offensive. We all should just be people and nothing else.

 

[Nev]

People get offend by everything. It seems like they are looking for things to be offend by.

I swear the day when EVERYTHING is offensive is nigh.

 

[Zakalwe]

Oh, misread. nvm!

 

[Karkador]

I enjoy standing out but not because of my ethnic background.

If I had a third eye on my forehead then hell yeah, call me exotic.

I have some exotic news for you

 

[Van Owen]

Intent =! Impact. If you accidentally stepped on my toe meaning you didn't intend to step on my toe you still impacted me with pain and still owe me an apology.

Physical pain is different than choosing being to offended that a person thinks they have a unique look.

And I say "choosing" because I don't think anyone was actually distressed about being called "exotic", unless you want everyone on the planet to be a lemming and look/act/feel the same.

 

[ishibear]

because that's how human interaction works in some places. you won't know what is someone's limits or what their whims are until you interact.

Some people like to give compliments. some people like to receive. For example, i now know you don't like to be called exotic because of this thread. but it took you responding to the word to find out. i wasn't going to guess because where i'm from it's a term of endearment and often coveted.

so if we had met in person, had conversation and i referred to you as exotic and you would have been offended you would have let me know. and now i KNOW. and from them forth i would take into account that you and maybe the people in this area don't think of it in a positive manner. but that's because your background is not the same as mine, and i won't know until i take that chance.

so in this case, using it with you will take on the definition based on a negative context. but only with you. not with my family or MY general area.

But why are you testing strangers limits?

By the time I let you know I don't feel comfortable with that word, the damage is done. I'm ostracized and now wonder if everyone else is thinking the same of me. Why do you feel like you have to project your feelings onto me if we don't know each other?

 

[Zakalwe]

But why are you testing strangers limits?

It's called "getting to know someone".

EDIT: Let me add I don't just mean walking up to people and saying stuff and never meeting them again, I don't mean stuff like catcalling. I mean when we meet people they're initially strangers, and as we get to know them we're constantly testing their limits. It's part of how we decide who will be our friends and who won't.

 

[jerry1594]

Physical pain is different than choosing being to offended that a person thinks they have a unique look.

And I say "choosing" because I don't think anyone was actually distressed about being called "exotic", unless you want everyone on the planet to be a lemming and look/act/feel the same.

Words can devastate and shatter a person beyond repair man. People on twitter are developing ptsd from all the meanness.

 

[Lesath]

You make some asinine argument after acusing people of dictionary thumping, and I'm the one that has nothing to say?

Calling someone a specimen is in an entirely different league than describing how them come across to you.

I'm sorry if you're idea of dictionary thumping means understanding language.

People in this thread have pulled dictionary definitions to justify the use of the word, lauding the so-called positive connotations. And my point was that dictionary definitions alone cannot justify any word use when it comes to people. The example I gave was the use of "magnificent specimen" to describe a woman.

You counterargument, as far I understood it, was that specimen is a noun and exotic is an adjective.

 

[DR2K]

Maybe it's a female thing, but I've always taken being called exotic as a compliment. Not really sure how you can reach for, "you're pretty for an ethnicity". Unless you're really just looking to bitch about something.

 

[Infinite]

Physical pain is different than choosing being to offended that a person thinks they have a unique look.

And I say "choosing" because I don't think anyone was actually distressed about being called "exotic", unless you want everyone on the planet to be a lemming and look/act/feel the same.

You're willfully being obtuse but I'm going to direct to Mumei's post.

I don't think it's amazing, or perhaps you're necessarily understanding what is being asserted. If you've hurt or offended someone, no, your intent does not bear any influence on how they should feel about what you've said. I don't think anyone would deny that hurting or offending someone intentionally is worse than offending or hurting someone unintentionally, so it matters in that sense. But if it was unintentional, you should simply apologize and move on, rather than mounting a defense that you didn't mean it the way they received it and that they are wrong to have been offended. I guarantee you it'll be better received than apologetics.

(I'm sure there are exceptions to this general rule, like a person who takes umbrage at being called something because they confused it with another word, or don't know what the word actually means; please don't be annoying by bringing up situations like that.)

 

[Zakalwe]

People in this thread have pulled dictionary definitions to justify the use of the word, lauding the so-called positive connotations. And my point was that dictionary definitions alone cannot justify any word use when it comes to people. The example I gave was the use of "magnificent specimen" to describe a woman.

You counterargument, as far I understood it, was that specimen is a noun and exotic is an adjective.

Forget the dictionary definitions and just know there are people who would find it a compliment. Some people in this thread have attested to that, and I personally know people who would do the same.

So, knowing these people exist, should we never use it because some people would take offence?