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[Roufianos]

No doubt.

Online dating has played a huge role in that, the power dynamic on stuff like Tinder is crazy. Women give a hard no to guys who probably wouldn't look twice at them in real life.

Of course, women aren't all to blame. It's men's desperation that partly fuels their belief that they're too good for everyone.

 

[nush]

Because if you’re using a dating app or matchmaker women will judge you.

I work in tech and I’ve had women call me a nerd before meeting.

but women are on the app...

 

[SlimySnake]

men need to lower their standards too. all we want to do is fuck the hottest chick in the room. no, maybe go for her ugly friend once in a while. who knows, she might have a personality since she hasnt been hit on ten times a day by thirsty dudes making her feel like a beauty queen/

even if you get lucky and manage to get with one of these hot girls, trust me, you will get bored of having sex with them.

 

[M1chl]

men need to lower their standards too. all we want to do is fuck the hottest chick in the room. no, maybe go for her ugly friend once in a while. who knows, she might have a personality since she hasnt been hit on ten times a day by thirsty dudes making her feel like a beauty queen/

even if you get lucky and manage to get with one of these hot girls, trust me, you will get bored of having sex with them.

Nothing wrong with that, not the mention if you catch some feeling for hot girl, it will break you. Don't ask me how I know it.

 

[StormCell]

but women are on the app...

And a lot of women, nowadays, like nerds.

Oldest personal ad ever written: Sugar baby seeking sugar daddy. ;-)

 

[nush]

men need to lower their standards too.

No, there's plenty that already do. That's the problem, no quality control.

 

[Hypnosekroete]

MGTOW just seems like less self-aware incels. At least incels have the decency to hate themselves because no one wants to fuck them.

MGTOW are pretty much the only ones with a half working brain.
Alphas get sex, but can easily be dragged to the court, get a crotch goblin or STD's
Betas just live in a illusion and marriage is the dumbest thing a guy can do.
Women can swipe all day and pick a guy for some sex - even a 120kg landwhale.

The work you have to put into just getting a decent woman is so massive and the reward is so tiny - not gonna do it.

 

[zeioIIDX]

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone else find it weird that women can get away with putting things on their Tinder profiles like "only date black guys" and yet if a guy were to write Asian girls only" he would be absolutely torn apart. Have seen it many times. If a woman do it, she's expressing her personal preferences, but when a guy does it, he's a racist, sexual predator who has a fetish for a particular race or something along those lines.

Man...women in general I've encountered on dating apps/sites are just plain ol' shallow as fuck and I come across double standards all damn day. Half the chicks online these days are only out here begging for money with their digital panhandling crap.

"Please, come subscribe to my OnlyFans page!"
"Check out my premium Snapchat, it's just $10/month!"
"CashApp me $5 and see what happens!"

If it's not that, then a good chunk of them are just beyond shallow and sometimes straight-up racist (I'm black, light-skinned). And cool, I get that that everyone has preferences and that's totally understandable. But the way some of these women just savagely cut you to shreds if you don't fit their criteria for being date-able is totally uncalled for and after years and years of this, it's kinda fucked my self-esteem lol. I laugh but it blows.

 

[FreedomOfSpeech]

I totally understand mgtow.

You gotta be really sure about getting married in this climate, the laws are definitely against men.
It's also pretty disheartening to see women swim in the sea of 'Chad' while getting ignored and ridiculed, only to become acceptable once women hit the wall and finally realize their freewheeling time is over.

So mgtow and redpill basically promote self improvement, which is pretty logical.

It's pretty hard to not become jaded as an average guy.

 

[008]

Off topic, I forgot I was still on a dating app. Guess who liked me to write this. Here’s a fun message I received.

“So glad I’m bleeding like the Nile River and didn’t waste $50 on a waste of a dude.”

Add: Yes I chuckled and screenshot it because I was laughing

 

[NickFire]

Not always, but often enough it seems that the higher a person sets their standards in the opposite sex, the lower they set their standards in cats.

 

[Grinchy]

MGTOW just seems like less self-aware incels. At least incels have the decency to hate themselves because no one wants to fuck them.

I dunno wtf MGTOW is supposed to mean, but why do you think the guy you're replying to should hate himself?

Do you seriously feel like the only path one can take in life is to get married? And any other choice should lead to self-hatred? And if so, would you be willing to at least entertain the idea that maybe you've been brainwashed in some small way?

 

[LordKasual]

Because if you’re using a dating app or matchmaker women will judge you.

I work in tech and I’ve had women call me a nerd before meeting.

But she still met with you...?

The only time "Nerd" works against you is when you can't hold a conversation about anything other than "nerd" shit

I dunno wtf MGTOW is supposed to mean, but why do you think the guy you're replying to should hate himself?

Do you seriously feel like the only path one can take in life is to get married? And any other choice should lead to self-hatred? And if so, would you be willing to at least entertain the idea that maybe you've been brainwashed in some small way?

You don't have to get married

but people who speak like that are very obvious making choices not based on what they want, but what they've decided they have to settle for

Nobody should hate themselves, but MOST humans don't have to go to such extremes to be okay with life.


If everyone is so crazy that you feel the need to shut yourself in, be alone, and jack off to porn for the rest of your life......it's exceedingly likely that the issue isn't women. It's just you.

 

[Grinchy]

You don't have to get married

but people who speak like that are very obvious making choices not based on what they want, but what they've decided they have to settle for

Nobody should hate themselves, but MOST humans don't have to go to such extremes to be okay with life.


If everyone is so crazy that you feel the need to shut yourself in, be alone, and jack off to porn for the rest of your life......it's exceedingly likely that the issue isn't women. It's just you.

Throughout the years at various jobs, I've met so many guys who were married to a woman who cleaned them out. Maybe they weren't Prince Charming, I'm not saying they are guaranteed to be perfect people or anything, but the law decided that they had to work 3 jobs and live in a box so that they could keep providing a life for a woman who doesn't even want to have a part time job.

The reality is that women are heavily protected by marriage and men get absolutely fucked by it in the event that things go south. There are examples of the opposite happening, sure, but that's not the norm.

And now we live in an age where a woman can just write a single tweet that ruins a man's life and ability to earn income. She can see a man move on, find a new woman, start living a happy life, feel jealous, and years later just accuse him of something he never even did. The company he works for will side with her, the friends and family around him will feel pressured to do the same so as not to be "bigots."

I just don't think it's the most insane thing for someone to look at it all and say fuck it, this is not worth the hassle anymore. Even Henry Cavill, the guy who plays The Witcher and Superman, who could literally stick his dick in any hole he wanted, has expressed how scary it is to even hit on a woman in this fucked up climate.

 

[LordKasual]

Throughout the years at various jobs, I've met so many guys who were married to a woman who cleaned them out. Maybe they weren't Prince Charming, I'm not saying they are guaranteed to be perfect people or anything, but the law decided that they had to work 3 jobs and live in a box so that they could keep providing a life for a woman who doesn't even want to have a part time job.


The reality is that women are heavily protected by marriage and men get absolutely fucked by it in the event that things go south. There are examples of the opposite happening, sure, but that's not the norm.

I used to work at a lab testing clinic. If during a child custody hearing, someone says the other has a drug/drinking problem, they basically force you to take weekly, OBSERVED drug screens. Meaning I had to watch the pee leave their dicks. I've had so many conversations with people completed jaded at their ex because of them weaponizing children to use to hurt them.

Of course this DOES go both ways because I had a few women too...at least the few who were okay with me observing them pee. But the courts are clearly slanted towards women. Unless the woman has serious problems, it's more likely that children go to the mother instead of the father.

It's pretty bad

And now we live in an age where a woman can just write a single tweet that ruins a man's life and ability to earn income. She can see a man move on, find a new woman, start living a happy life, feel jealous, and years later just accuse him of something he never even did. The company he works for will side with her, the friends and family around him will feel pressured to do the same so as not to be "bigots."

This is true.....but the same place i've worked put me into uncomfortable contact with alot of women who have been raped who cope with it by getting tested for STDs and then never talking about it again. I've heard multiple times that "it's not worth the trouble, i just wanna make sure i'm clean", or they "dont want to ruin families", or a bunch of other stuff.

I think alot of guys believe accusing someone of rape/sexual harassment is easier than it actually is. The VAST majority of women who get raped/sexually harassed/abused actually never say anything. The trouble of burying it and letting them walk is usually FAR easier than dealing with the fallout.


That's just to say that accusations regarding sexual conduct are really complicated. But either way, the types of women who weaponize sexual harassment allegations are no different from the types of women who weaponize their children in divorce/child support settlements. They're malicious cunts.

I just don't think it's the most insane thing for someone to look at it all and say fuck it, this is not worth the hassle anymore. Even Henry Cavill, the guy who plays The Witcher and Superman, who could literally stick his dick in any hole he wanted, has expressed how scary it is to even hit on a woman in this fucked up climate.

There are women out there though who aren't focused on marriage or children, and just want companionship until later in life when they decide they want kids. There are ALOT of them, actually. This is why I said that marriage isn't even an issue here.

Those "incel" type guys tend to convince themselves that women are so much different from men that they not only will never understand them, but can't relate to what they want. That's stupid. The truth is that they've just gotten so caught up in the fact that they're failing that they refuse to take a step back and realize that they're their own issue.


I can 100% get behind a guy who just knows EXACTLY what he wants and is okay ignoring women. But I don't know any guys like that, even if they WISH they were like that. People pretend to dislike things they view out of reach.

 

[Turnt]

MGTOW are pretty much the only ones with a half working brain.
Alphas get sex, but can easily be dragged to the court, get a crotch goblin or STD's
Betas just live in a illusion and marriage is the dumbest thing a guy can do.
Women can swipe all day and pick a guy for some sex - even a 120kg landwhale.

The work you have to put into just getting a decent woman is so massive and the reward is so tiny - not gonna do it.

And that's the thing with the MGTOW mindset. They're so paranoid that someone is getting somthing over on them that they decide to not bother. "If the game is rigged then the only way to win is to not play" right? Again, it's the incel mindset amplified. It's not just "no woman could genuinely be interested in me for who I am, so what's the point" it's "no women could genuinely be interested in anyone, so what's the point." For MGTOW people, they aren't the problem, every woman is. Happiness is found in thinking everyone else is or will be miserable and feeling like you have avoided that.

It's not that hard to find and maintain a meaningful relationship. If you don't want it that's fine. But if you think it's not possible or too much work then you're fooling yourself.

I dunno wtf MGTOW is supposed to mean, but why do you think the guy you're replying to should hate himself?

Do you seriously feel like the only path one can take in life is to get married? And any other choice should lead to self-hatred? And if so, would you be willing to at least entertain the idea that maybe you've been brainwashed in some small way?

People are more than welcome to not get married or be in relationships if they don't want to. I actually think it's good to be able to rely on yourself for your own happiness. People that look to relationships with others for validation don't tend to find the happiness they are looking for in the long term. So yeh, whatever makes you happy is great and different things work for different people.

But don't just make that decision because some weirdos on the internet (is it a coincidence that a bunch of the people he mentioned have Patreons or books they want to selll?) convinced you that actually every woman is just gonna make you miserable and aren't worth it. It's such a sweeping generalisation about billions of people that it seems crazy to make it a foundation of how you live your life.

 

[Rest]

Men are fertile until the day they die. Women fertility start declining around 30 years old, they were born with a finite number of eggs. Every decade after 30 will pose more risk for women to conceive and support children.

I don't think men are the ones who has to worry about finding a partner. Most women are driven by urges to have children and have safety. The liberals and feminists have put some of these impressionable activist women's life prospects into a corner by telling them they should dye their hair purple, write off men, and be a strong independent women.

When these brainwashed women hit their 30's and 40's, they're going to realize their skin will begin to wrinkle, things will begin sagging, and their body begin losing its physical appeal. They will wake up and red pill so fast. It's all fun and games when you have your parents to support you in your 20's. When you hit 30 and realize you need a stable house, a loving family, and safety, it's already too late for these activist females. They will have wasted the most productive time in their life and they will be filled with regrets.

Good to see GAF has fedoras running around.

 

[supernova8]

Those "incel" type guys tend to convince themselves that women are so much different from men that they not only will never understand them, but can't relate to what they want. That's stupid. The truth is that they've just gotten so caught up in the fact that they're failing that they refuse to take a step back and realize that they're their own issue.

I can 100% get behind a guy who just knows EXACTLY what he wants and is okay ignoring women. But I don't know any guys like that, even if they WISH they were like that. People pretend to dislike things they view out of reach.

Yeah I pretty much agree with this. Guys I know have extreme difficulty finding even a date are all lacking two or more of the following:

• charisma/confidence
• visually pleasing appearance (both bone structure and muscularity/low body fat)
• hobbies (ie doesn't sit at home all day doing nothing)
• friends (ie social status)
• financial stability
• ambition

Should rename them to volcels. It's almost always self-inflicted.

 

[Hypnosekroete]

Just be happy for every guy who does his own thing, more pussy for you.
Its a Win/Win for everyone

 

[StreetsofBeige]

No surprise.

I've had my hilarious chats with coworkers about online dating, demographics and those 50 entry fields you can type in about this or that.

One thing that was 100% (yes 100%) important was money. There wasn't one female who said (when we'd have fun asking each other who we pick and what filters we use) they would pick a guy making less than the $50,000 income field. And for many, those tantalizing $100,000+ brackets were minimum. This was when Match had income field as a filter. They got rid of it a few years ago.

At first, I left income bracket as blank (ignored answering). Would get views and hits here and there. Then I decided to change my income to pick one of the $100,000+ choices and my views LITERALLY 3x to 4x. Suddenly my icon has a red dot on it every day saying this person or that person viewed me. Where the fuck was this when I left the income entry blank? I didn't say $0 or the cheap bracket. I just didn't answer.

Greedy bitches.

Didn't matter if they were good looking or was a great dad. Financial stability and "I don't want to use my money to pay for his stuff" were big deals.

Then the next important things were "the guy's got to have a sense of humour. It's not about looks"

Then you say what if the guy is ugly, but a great guy and suddenly the answer is..... "uhhh, nah. There's better looking guys out there with the same stats"

Anytime women say they only care about sense of humour and a guy great with kids are 90% bullshitting. Ya, you get some people online dating who don't care about looks, but when you got a ton of metrics and photos to pick from, it's all about looks, money and job.

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Nothing new under the sun.

 

[nush]

One thing that was 100% (yes 100%) important was money. There wasn't one female who said (when we'd have fun asking each other who we pick and what filters we use) they would pick a guy making less than the $50,000 income field. And for many, those tantalizing $100,000+ brackets were minimum. This was when Match had income field as a filter. They got rid of it a few years ago.

Years ago I setup a fake POF account to see changing different fields had on the interest the profile, the pictures were of me but I'd rotate round between a set of them. One field I just kept raising each week was salary, like you I didn't get any interest until it got up to 100K. Then the interest started, was it the attractive women writing long opening messages? No it was landwhales with several kids. Man, did some of them get mad when I left them on read.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Years ago I setup a fake POF account to see changing different fields had on the interest the profile, the pictures were of me but I'd rotate round between a set of them. One field I just kept raising each week was salary, like you I didn't get any interest until it got up to 100K. Then the interest started, was it the attractive women writing long opening messages? No it was landwhales with several kids. Man, did some of them get mad when I left them on read.

Hahaha.

I had one person who messaged me and I viewed her, but never responded. A day or two later she sends me another message. Something like "What? You think you're too good not to respond?"

Block user. LOL

By the way, when see your avatar I think I got a hair on my screen. lol

 

[nush]

Something like "What? You think you're too good not to respond?"

Yes, it was exactly that type of response. It circles back around to points I've already made in this topic that women don't know how to deal with being ignored, it's a strange alien world to them because dudes are too damn thirsty.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

It's not that hard to find and maintain a meaningful relationship. If you don't want it that's fine. But if you think it's not possible or too much work then you're fooling yourself.

Do you have children?

 

[All Hail C-Webb]

Damn, I had no clue how tough most guys have it.

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Hahaha.

I had one person who messaged me and I viewed her, but never responded. A day or two later she sends me another message. Something like "What? You think you're too good not to respond?"

Block user. LOL

By the way, when see your avatar I think I got a hair on my screen. lol

That's them projecting their own thoughts onto you. It's all a mind game to these women. That's why I don't step foot in dating sites, because I have better shit to do than worry about how to correctly respond (or not) to these hoez!

 

[Stiflers Mom]

You know, all is nice and easy when you are 22 and do Netflix and Chill and then your girlfriend goes to her own flat again.

And it can still be charming when you move in together at 28, and do that shit and going to bed together and waking up etc.

But whoever tells me it's all amazing talks, love, mutual understanding and sex a couple of times a week when you have two crazy kids and a mortgage on your house is lying.

 

[eot]

MGTOW are pretty much the only ones with a half working brain.
Alphas get sex, but can easily be dragged to the court, get a crotch goblin or STD's
Betas just live in a illusion and marriage is the dumbest thing a guy can do.
Women can swipe all day and pick a guy for some sex - even a 120kg landwhale.

The work you have to put into just getting a decent woman is so massive and the reward is so tiny - not gonna do it.

Whatever stops you from crying yourself to sleep bud. It just comes off as a way of coping with being alone, as well as a justification for not trying. This shit you are writing is just parroting the most basic "insights" you've picked up from reading Chad memes. Go out and meet real people and see that the world is a little (a lot) more nuanced than that.

 

[nush]

Whatever stops you from crying yourself to sleep bud. It just comes off as a way of coping with being alone, as well as a justification for not trying. This shit you are writing is just parroting the most basic "insights" you've picked up from reading Chad memes. Go out and meet real people and see that the world is a little (a lot) more nuanced than that.

Incels/MGTOW are both a bucket of crabs that want to pull as many guys down with them as they can. "There's no hope, so why even bother?" and there's a lot of young guys that haven't worked everything out that are indoctrinated into this thinking by those communities that the whole system is rigged against them.

 

[VertigoOA]

Some tips on tinder dating

“Loves to party” means loves cocaine

“open-minded” means she’s bisexual and likes gangbangs

Stay away from those nutjobs... yea these women have ridiculous demands but more than likely most ain’t worth shit to you. Enjoy the search and find a partner who fits you.

And incels aren’t deserving of pity sex. It’s competitive out there... you win or lose. If you can’t score a girl it’s your fault. End of story. Life isn’t fair nor should it be.

unfortunately I more than likely just triggered some basement serial killer... oh well.

 

[llien]

I don't think men are the ones who has to worry about finding a partner. Most women are driven by urges to have children and have safety. The liberals and feminists have put some of these impressionable activist women's life prospects into a corner by telling them they should dye their hair purple, write off men, and be a strong independent women.

There are more interesting aspects at play.

"Parental investment" into giving offspring is not even remotely comparable.
This also explain why men are so easy on "let's have sex", while for women it's actually a commitment, which can knock them out for 9+ month and leave with a new little human who shares genes with some guy whom they didn't even like that much.

Among our ancestors, women outnumber men 2 to 1. (some men had many kids, some had none) It isn't clear how much of it was caused by female choices, but some hint at female orgasm increasing the probability to conceive a child from the better partner in multi-partner scenarios.

Another curious case is, for some reason women look for a partner who has status higher than their own.

As most of it is actually evolution and instincts, this whole "don't listen to <crazy folks from group X>" is fairly useless.

 

[Hypnosekroete]

Man you can have fun with women, i just dont see a point.
I had that mindset long before i discoverd mgtow.
Every marriage failed in my family, coworkers with family look like walking corpses and are just drones that get money.
The work is just not worth the reward.

 

[EightBit Man]

Everybody's standards are too high I think, not just women's. Romance is dead too, replaced by a pornographic mindset.

Narcissistic Youth Sexlessness: Porn and Relationships in a Dying World

 

[Turnt]

Do you have children?

Yeh. It changes things for sure. And I'm not saying having kids is the be all end all for everyone. Like I said, whatever makes you happy is cool and having kids isn't for everyone. By "not that hard" I meant in comparison to how these MGTOW people talk about it, which is that it's basically impossible to be happy that way.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Yeh. It changes things for sure. And I'm not saying having kids is the be all end all for everyone. Like I said, whatever makes you happy is cool and having kids isn't for everyone.

Is your life with wife and kids what you expected it to be when your relationship started?

 

[rofif]

Wow. I couldn't fathom on how someone only had 5 different sex partners. I have that on a regular weekend night. Dating/sexing women seems really impossible.

I had only one. And she is my wife now (we married last this month after 12 years together).
The only problem I have is - do we do kids or not... she is 29, I am 31.... we don't want kids and are selfish bastards with great lives doing what we enjoy

 

[Turnt]

Is your life with wife and kids what you expected it to be when your relationship started?

Not too different? Friends had had kids before me so I had a somewhat of an idea of what I was getting into. Of course there's adjustments you have to make and things you could do before that you can't really now. But that's life. Things change. I enjoyed that time for what it was then and I'm enjoying what I have now.

The MGTOW guys are the ones that want to live the rest of their lives like they're in their early 20s. And that's fine if that's what they really want to do. But they act as if that's the only logical choice and everyone else is stupid and miserable. A big part of the MGTOW mindset isn't just "this is the choice I'm making" it's "everyone who doesn't choose this is getting conned"

 

[p_xavier]

I had only one. And she is my wife now (we married last this month after 12 years together).
The only problem I have is - do we do kids or not... she is 29, I am 31.... we don't want kids and are selfish bastards with great lives doing what we enjoy

No kids. Enough population already and you can enjoy your lives more.

 

[goldenpp72]

When you are talking with women in a buddy like way like I can with my sister you will soon notice that this is normal.
You will always just be the stand in for their dream prince whom they imagine their perfect life with.
Your wife usually won't tell u that off course (if she hasn't completely beta'ed you already and despises you anyway, because then she might drop you a hint. I heard stories from married friends that are sickening).

Like I wrote above, I have many many years of long term relationships under my belt, have two beautiful sons, and can get someone to fuck if I want to. Definitely not an incel who is telling you this shit.

It feels nice to be in a relationship where the person just loves you like family they actually like. I may not be brad pitt but I do fully condone and understand her weird hobbies so I guess that helps.

 

[rofif]

No kids. Enough population already and you can enjoy your lives more.

I feel the same now but what if I will regret this in few decades?
My sister have kids, friends have kids (and stopped existing then). Only we don't have

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Not too different? Friends had had kids before me so I had a somewhat of an idea of what I was getting into. Of course there's adjustments you have to make and things you could do before that you can't really now.
But that's life. Things change.

That's true.
That doesn't necessarily mean the only logical way to go is having a family and kids, though.

I enjoyed that time for what it was then and I'm enjoying what I have now.

That's great...

The MGTOW guys are the ones that want to live the rest of their lives like they're in their early 20s. And that's fine if that's what they really want to do

That sounds a bit condescending, since it implies these people are not willing to grow up in a way, or that only men with a wife and kids are mature.

. But they act as if that's the only logical choice and everyone else is stupid and miserable.

Well, that's stupid off course. Everybody should find their own way of happiness.

A big part of the MGTOW mindset isn't just "this is the choice I'm making" it's "everyone who doesn't choose this is getting conned"

I guess it's more like "i have tried it a couple of times, and it didn't work out" for me.
Some friends of mine are like you, and they really seem to work within the constraints of a relationship+wife/kids with all that stuff that comes with it.

That's more rare though in my experience. Most men I am talking with about their relationships are miserable about it.
They just accept what it is, because they don't see a way out, or are scared that the alternative is being a lonely old fuck with no life anymore.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Seems like the inflection point for marriages is right around the first kid. With women on average more educated than men these days, if they are not married to a guy that makes enough money for the wife to stay home for the baby years then the marriage likely falls apart. If the guy does make enough money then they are happily married for a long time. That is my anecdotal experience, but I believe the data on divorce rates vs income level back me up on this. In other words, if you are a guy, take care of your shit first if you don't want to be miserable in a future relationship.

 

[Frito_Pendejo]

Women are not worth the effort.
Staying alone i can make everything i want in peace. Except sex, but i can just put on my Oculus Go or if i really need go to a hooker (not now, cause of Corona).
Farting all i want, getting up at 6am and go to the gym, working in shift, no need to buy a big house, playing games, no nagging.
Pure Peace.

I love these mgtow channels: Better Bachlor, Coach Greg Adams, Undead Chronic, Terrence Popp and for german speaker the new Coach Magic Channel.

I disagree. Not all women are but some certainly are. My wife doesn’t nag or give me shit, we play video games together, I’m a huge football fan (Redskins fan sadly) and instead of bitching about me watching football she got me tickets. She’s always been super supportive and we’re pretty much best friends. I thought things might start to suck a little after our daughter was born but she’s pretty much stayed the same. Can’t imagine what my life would be like without her anymore?

 

[eot]

I feel the same now but what if I will regret this in few decades?
My sister have kids, friends have kids (and stopped existing then). Only we don't have

What if you have kids and regret it? That's worse.
You just gotta decide and commit to it.

 

[Mossybrew]

I've never heard of this MGTOW shit until this thread. Here's a brief thought experiment:

Two guys decide they don't like burgers, even though it's socially expected that every dude likes burgers.

One dude just, doesn't eat burgers. That's it. Doesn't really even talk about it unless maybe someone offers him one.

The other guy starts identifying with the online movement MenWhoDontEatBurgers, MWDEB. Watches several MWDEB youtube channels regularly, chats in discussions online about his MWDEB lifestyle. Needs others with a similar mindset to reinforce his own opinion.

Which dude probably still has some deep seated burger issues, and most likely actually really wants one.

 

[Turnt]

That's true.
That doesn't necessarily mean the only logical way to go is having a family and kids, though.

Absolutely, again I'm not saying that's the case.

That sounds a bit condescending, since it implies these people are not willing to grow up in a way, or that only men with a wife and kids are mature.

Perhaps I was being a little dismissive there. But when I've seen these MGTOW guys talk they basically want to either not bother with women at all or just want to have no strings sex. I just meant in the sense that for a lot of us that's what our late teens into early twenties are like. I didn't necessarily mean overall maturity.

I guess it's more like "i have tried it a couple of times, and it didn't work out" for me.
Some friends of mine are like you, and they really seem to work within the constraints of a relationship+wife/kids with all that stuff that comes with it.

That's more rare though in my experience. Most men I am talking with about their relationships are miserable about it.
They just accept what it is, because they don't see a way out, or are scared that the alternative is being a lonely old fuck with no life anymore.

Sure, and again not to repeat myself but whatever works for someone is fine with them. People should find a set up that makes them happy and helps them balance whatever is important to themselves in life. My bigger issue with the MGTOW thing is it's not enough for them to make that choice and decide that's what works for them, more power to them if that's the case. It's that they have to shit on everyone else who doesn't make that choice and you're stupid for not making the same choice they have. It's the same as those parents who make people who don't want or can't have kids feel like shit.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

I think the problems in online dating are overblown. Yes, unless you're in the top 2-3% you won't get a fuckton of matches, but how many matches you get isn't necessarily correlated with how much success you'll have getting a relationship. If you're just looking to hook up, then sure, it's harder for men but that's not online dating's fault. Anyway the point is that a good relationship is mutual, so setting aside gay relationships it's obvious that it's equally hard for men to find a good relationship as it is for women.

Also, having lots of matches on tinder is actually fucking exhausting.

if you are a guy this is what you do when you get a match:

Match -> message a couple times (keep it very short and simple) -> phone/video call -> meet in person

If someone does not even want to talk to you via a phone call (preferably video chat) you can then spot that they are a waste of time. Doing this will save you soooo much time because so many guys want to go back and forth messaging and they don't understand that you have to vet these girls to make sure your not wasting your time because unfortunately a lot of girls are on these dating apps just for attention.

As for the general topic, woman are picky and they have been that way since the beginning of time. I think the disconnect is guys think they can approach dating like woman and rely on dating apps and the internet but its actually the exact opposite. Going outside and having the confidence to ask woman out that you meet in-person has and will always be the best strategy for most guys.

 

[eot]

if you are a guy this is what you do when you get a match:

Match -> message a couple times (keep it very short and simple) -> phone/video call -> meet in person

If someone does not even want to talk to you via a phone call (preferably video chat) you can then spot that they are a waste of time. Doing this will save you soooo much time because so many guys want to go back and forth messaging and they don't understand that you have to vet these girls to make sure your not wasting your time because unfortunately a lot of girls are on these dating apps just for attention.

To each their own. I much prefer meeting up for something casual than phoning someone, it honestly would never occur to me - I hate talking on the phone.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

To each their own. I much prefer meeting up for something casual than phoning someone, it honestly would never occur to me - I hate talking on the phone.

In my experience most girls never go straight from tinder or dating app to a in-person meet up and for me personally I like to have a video call just to make sure the girl looks the same as her pictures.