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[Alex]

Tre, you were a LV20 who topped out in Valkurm in an English only beta in which 99% of the players were crap (myself included) as a Warrior looking to sub DRK in the future.

...

My point? You had absolutely no idea how to play the game, what you did play, like almost everyone else from beta, you played it poorly. Not that it's your fault, beta had SHIT documentation, and we had nothing online to refrence.

But, that doesn't change my opinion that a lot of your little "impressions" are totally off the mark, nor should you be consulted about the game. Your little bit about FFXI tanking is totally complete steaming bullshit. Shouta's a fuckin' Paladin, is he not? He should be bitching you out, not me.

"It’s not like you do anything different on level 70, 60, 50, 40 compared to level 20, you do the same shit over and over again… so I don’t see how you couldn’t comment on gameplay just because you’re at the lower levels..."

That's a pretty big load.

"My biggest complaint is there isn't enough variety in the game. From types of monsters, to unique class roles, appearances and what not."

Agreed, big time, espically on monsters. God...

Anyhow, yeah, there's a lot to knock like any game in existance. And despite it BEING my favorite game, there's a lot I'd like to see changed/added, but I'm going to occasionally still call bullshit on things here and there.

The "impressions" of FFXI, which were mostly utterly retarded in most cases close to PC launch, are still basicly the same, that's sad to see.

You really should consider studying up, then giving it another shot if you ever get free time Tre', I dunno if I'd ever convince you to really, really enjoy it, but I'd bet you'd have a fuckload more fun if you gave it a harder shot sometime. It is something you have to really commit to though, heh, so I don't think you'll ever take me up

 

[Matlock]

Chill out there, Liberace. He's got every right to his opinion as you do yours.

 

[MrCheez]

Before playing a MMORPG, run 30 miles while a rabid midget punches you in the groin. Then you'll understand the pain.

Keep searching, my friend! Once you've had some good MMO experiences, you'll find there is really nothing like it gaming-wise.

I'm really hoping EQ2 will feel like the "good old days". =)

 

[Drinky Crow]

How about NEITHER? They're both tedious level grinds of the most abysmal order, although if you held a rusty razor in front of my scrotum and told me to pick, I'd go with FFXI.

 

[MrCheez]

Tre, you were a LV20 who topped out in Valkurm in an English only beta in which 99% of the players were crap (myself included) as a Warrior looking to sub DRK in the future.

My point? You had absolutely no idea how to play the game, what you did play, like almost everyone else from beta, you played it poorly. Not that it's your fault, beta had SHIT documentation, and we had nothing online to refrence.

But, that doesn't change my opinion that a lot of your little "impressions" are totally off the mark, nor should you be consulted about the game.

Why does this sort of argument keep popping up? How many hours and days does it take to get to level 20? Quite a bit. It's childish to act as if he's inferior and does not "understand" the game. I hit 30, raised a Dragoon and a Beast to 15, and I agree with his general points. =P

Here's what needs to be kept in mind: The reason we are discussing FFXI at all is because the original poster wanted to know what to play, and I think he was saying this will be his first MMO. Most likely he is going to be a casual player anyway. Why shouldn't Tre be consulted about his opinion on the game? The original poster will be experiencing what Tre experienced for quite awhile before he stops being a "newb" and becomes one of you godly 1337 players. =P

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Tre, you were a LV20 who topped out in Valkurm in an English only beta in which 99% of the players were crap (myself included) as a Warrior looking to sub DRK in the future.

My point? You had absolutely no idea how to play the game, what you did play, like almost everyone else from beta, you played it poorly. Not that it's your fault, beta had SHIT documentation, and we had nothing online to refrence."

I (like shouta) spent an enormous time scouring through japanese websites semi-translating how the game worked, etc. I'm not saying I'm a pro, but my ability to PLAY the game doesn't affect the shoddy implementation. I'm sure there's plenty I missed from not getting to level 73, but ultimately, I think that the time I spent playing other games I enjoyed make up far more than what I missed

I'm sorry Alex, that's a poor excuse for a cop out defense and you know it. That still doesn't change that FFXI isn't any different from many other RPGs in how it's paced (poorly), that the game's environment is ultimately limiting and restricted. Eventually, you realize that your environments are nothing more than roads with invisible walls surrounding them.

"Why does this sort of argument keep popping up? How many hours and days does it take to get to level 20? Quite a bit. It's childish to act as if he's inferior and does not "understand" the game."

Exactly.

 

[Ferrio]

Wait to world of warcraft. You want y our first MMORPG to be special, and I'm guessing that'll be the one.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Let's not forget that the game is ugly as sin, too, and has almost no real visual variety outside of a few snazzy building dropped in the middle of fields.

I guarantee you that EVERY hardcore FFXI/L2 fan has one if not all female characters (well, a creepy few have Taru Taru), and I guarantee that the anime look is what makes them overlook the massive swaths of pure unfun that comprises 80% of the play time in these games.

 

[SaitoH]

I really liked FFXI, but it eventually wore me down. Genkai at level 50, AF quests, the hours spent, I mean wasted, waiting for a group.

/exaggeration on

It was so fine tuned, and partycentric that you needed an entire alliance just to blow your nose.

/exaggeration off

They almost really had something there, and I understand why people like it, but FFXI wasn't for me.

Filetmignon 55 blm/ 27 rdm / 9 whm / 9 bst

^w^

 

[Mock]

I guarantee that the anime look is what makes them overlook the massive swaths of pure unfun that comprises 80% of the play time in these games.

Or it could be the thrill of playing with friends, trying new jobs, getting new stuff, constant new content and a fun battle system. Not to mention cool enviroments, great music and a storyline that ::gasp:: holds together the experience rather than feel like something tacked-on.

Just a thought.

I could honestly give a shit about the Japanese design angle, but at least it doesn't look like 100 pounds of ass. That's what EQ is for.

 

[RuGalz]

Why does this sort of argument keep popping up? How many hours and days does it take to get to level 20? Quite a bit. It's childish to act as if he's inferior and does not "understand" the game.

Any game with any sort of depth has a learning curve. The word "newbie" wouldn't exist if any new player can be as good as people who spent a lot of time on the game. Like Alex said, getting to lv 20 is cake. But getting a good grasp of the game by lv 20? Not a chance. That's when plenty of new stuff start to open up.

 

[MrCheez]

Any game with any sort of deprth has a learning curve. The word "newbie" wouldn't exist if any new player can be as good as people who spent a lot of time on the game. Like Alex said, getting to lv 20 is cake. But getting a good grasp of the game by lv 20? Not a chance. That's when plenty of new stuff start to open up.

You miss my point. Will a level 20 player perform as well as a level 70 player in a level 70 situation? Not really. But someone who has played to level 20 knows what they've been doing (unless they are a moron), knows what the game is like, and should have a bit of an idea of what to expect is coming. They also should be able to say if they've enjoyed what they've done thusfar, without someone else telling them they are too "new" to know whether or not they are having fun. =P

Getting to level 20 takes... what... 40 hours? (Probably much more actually, that's assuming you can level up one level every 2 hours) That is a lot of time for you guys to still say they don't have a right to speak about what they've experienced.

 

[DJ Demon J]

Wow, what class did you play that you only require to take out a sword?
Had to be one of the first 6 classes since I know you didn't get any adv jobs.
WAR needs to maintain hate control, so that can't be it.
All the mage classes are out, of course.
MNK at least has boost.
THF pre-level 15 may fit the bill.

Were you a pre-15 THF?



These are ps2 players. And they didn't just level grind all day long. I know they did quests, missions, crafting, etc. All of them are rank 5+

GOD YOU FUCKING FFXI FANBOYS ARE INSANE.

Seriously. "I know you didn't get any adv jobs." Advance jobs require 30 levels of clicking attack and waiting for the 100-300% for your other skill, which fires off roughly every 15 minutes, then you have a 2 hour skill. AND THAT'S IT. FOR 30 LEVELS. YEA, BLAZING FAST GAME FOLKS!!!!!

There is non engaging combat in FFXI (ESPECIALLY NOT FOR A SINGLE PLAYER). For a team, you can do renkei chains, which is a start, but still does not actually give you new skills. If you look at a level 75 character, how many actual clickable gameplay interface combat skills do they have? 6? Maybe 7? Try over a dozen with City of Heroes by the mid 20s, and the same and more for SWG or many other MMORPGs after an equivalent of 20-30 hours of gameplay. How many fucking hours did that FFXI player put in to get level 75 and play around with their 6-7 skills? EASILY over 100. YEA, BLAZING FAST GAME FOLKS!!!!!

 

[Teknopathetic]

And even if you AREN'T some insanely skilled character after 20 levels, 20-30 hours is an immense amount of time. I shouldn't spend that long doing something that's godawfully boring.

 

[BuddyC]

GOD YOU FUCKING FFXI FANBOYS ARE INSANE.

Seriously. "I know you didn't get any adv jobs." Advance jobs require 30 levels of clicking attack and waiting for the 100-300% for your other skill, which fires off roughly every 15 minutes, then you have a 2 hour skill. AND THAT'S IT. FOR 30 LEVELS. YEA, BLAZING FAST GAME FOLKS!!!!!

There is non engaging combat in FFXI (ESPECIALLY NOT FOR A SINGLE PLAYER). For a team, you can do renkei chains, which is a start, but still does not actually give you new skills. If you look at a level 75 character, how many actual clickable gameplay interface combat skills do they have? 6? Maybe 7? Try over a dozen with City of Heroes by the mid 20s, and the same and more for SWG or many other MMORPGs after an equivalent of 20-30 hours of gameplay. How many fucking hours did that FFXI player put in to get level 75 and play around with their 6-7 skills? EASILY over 100. YEA, BLAZING FAST GAME FOLKS!!!!!

Quiet, do you really want them infecting other games you actually enjoy?

 

[DJ Demon J]

It is something you have to really commit to though, heh, so I don't think you'll ever take me up

Translation: I'm uberleet! I spend all day playing FFXI with my uber-leet guild! HAHAHAHA!!! Then I'll eBay my items for money to feed my Naruto and One-Piece (Editor's Note: I actually have no idea what Naruto and One Piece are aside from that they are anime flicks, but I figured the analogy would be appropriate.) addiction!!!

 

[DJ Demon J]

Quiet, do you really want them infecting other games you actually enjoy?

lol. Hey, speaking of MMORPGs, are you playing anything? Have you tried SWG, CoH or WoW yet?

 

[BuddyC]

lol. Hey, speaking of MMORPGs, are you playing anything? Have you tried SWG, CoH or WoW yet?

I've been tempted by CoH, especially with the most recent patch/upgrade. I'd definately play WoW if I had an account, but I'm avoiding SWG at all costs - it would consume my life.

 

[RuGalz]

MrCheez: You are basically saying the learning curve is linear which it isn't.

 

[MrCheez]

And you guys are saying that post 60 hours playtime the game changes SO DRASTICALLY that anyone who has played less than that couldn't POSSIBLY "grasp" or "understand" the game enough to have a reliable opinion on it's entertainment value?

 

[RuGalz]

I have WoW account since Alpha, I only care enough to put about 20 hours in that game so far. I think the game sucks. Tell me how crediable is my claim.

 

[Ferrio]

CoH is like at the other end of the spectrum. Though harping on FFXI for not having much options in battles should be mute if your coming from COH. Ya there may be more action, but it's alot more mindless with no true goal to shoot for.

I have WoW beta account since Alpha, I only care enough to put about 20 hours in that game so far. I think the game sucks. Tell me how crediable is my claim.

Do you play and actively participate in the PK server?

 

[DJ Demon J]

I've been tempted by CoH, especially with the most recent patch/upgrade. I'd definately play WoW if I had an account, but I'm avoiding SWG at all costs - it would consume my life.

I know a guy who's going to be moving out of state within the next month and has a WoW account that he won't be using again, so I'll ask him if he'd give you the account login info. I still have the BitTorrent downloader for the beta, so I could get that to you if he gives me the OK.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Ferrio: That's also true, which is why, predominantly, I've only used CoH as a combat comparison.

 

[BuddyC]

I know a guy who's going to be moving out of state within the next month and has a WoW account that he won't be using again, so I'll ask him if he'd give you the account login info. I still have the BitTorrent downloader for the beta, so I could get that to you if he gives me the OK.

There's going to be a week in August between moving and school where I'll have absolutely nothing to do, so that would rock.

 

[MrCheez]

I have WoW account since Alpha, I only care enough to put about 20 hours in that game so far. I think the game sucks. Tell me how crediable is my claim.

Plenty credible. It doesn't mean you're right or that I'd feel the same way if I played it... but it's plenty to respect your opinion and not respond with a "wtf, newb!!!"

20 hours is a long time to put into a video game.

 

[MrCheez]

BTW, anyone who thinks WoW sucks should really be PMing me their account info. *^_^*

 

[Alex]

Whatever. I just said my piece, so more or less, I'm done. I don't think it's much of a cop out to say knowing how to play a game should be required for impressions.

If you don't dig it, that's one thing, and I don't give a shit about your level even or when you quit, but the nonsense and general bullshit is just staggering at times concerning the naysayers for FFXI.

Demon, god, clam down. I used to play on Xbox Live with you, and you seemed a lot nicer back then. And also, I don't even use a LS for anything but Dynamis, and I despise all anime nowadays, heh.

Anyhow, I'm not going to start slinging off insults, or acting like a spaz ala the GA norm, I've basicly quit the forum for a reason, so I'll probably pop a few more responses, would be nice if I could make them legit ones, and be done.

 

[DJ Demon J]

I have WoW account since Alpha, I only care enough to put about 20 hours in that game so far. I think the game sucks. Tell me how crediable is my claim.

As Mr. Cheez, said, 20 hours is a long time, and enough to determine the flow of a game. However, the WoW you are playing is not completely finished--many gameplay elements are not added or finalized (how many of those 20 hours did you play post Talents patch?). The 20+hours we all spent back in October on FFXI at launch was with a finished product.

 

[RuGalz]

20 hours is a long time to put into a video game.

If MMORPG were designed to be played only for 40 hours, all these companies will be out of business.

And umm, I do respect people for not liking the game. It doesn't fit their taste. Simple as that. That doesn't change the fact that he's a newb.

 

[Alex]

"And you guys are saying that post 60 hours playtime the game changes SO DRASTICALLY that anyone who has played less than that couldn't POSSIBLY "grasp" or "understand" the game enough to have a reliable opinion on it's entertainment value?"

I never said anything on that bit. The fact of the matter, at the entry level stages, people cannot even handle or understand whats already avalible.

The game does evolve, change and grow, yeah, and it keeps doing so until the end. Really fun stuff.

But my point was just trying to debunk the "I use provoke and leave the room" and "I use a weapon skill every now and then" nonsense from the kind of folk who MAKE Valkurm/Qufim/Yuhtunga/Yhoat as abysmal as they are.

That's not just my opinion, those places have HORRIBLE reps all around for a reason...

I'm not saying it's some pinaccle of game design acomplishment, but I like to think that I have pretty solid taste as a gamer, and while I do have faults with it, it is my favorite game for some solid reasons. Espically when I've played, and denounced most of the genre.

I'm not gonna act like a rabid freak over it, I don't have the time nor energy, but yeah, I'm gonna call things like I see them.

I'm not trying to act like a fuckhead and like I'm better than anyone because of my experience with FFXI, but the fact is that I'm a pretty honest guy, who has spent plenty enough time with it to know how things work, and the fact that you're getting like minded responses from multiple people should probably tell you something.

Anyway, yeah. It's kinda annoying being treated like I'm going in with some bias when I:

~Hate MMORPGs
~Hate Final Fantasy
~Currently hate most JRPG's
~Hate Xenoanything with all of my soul (this is a freebie)

Annoying~! Damn you all!

 

[radiuhm]

Hmmm I guess I'm gonna play Lineage 2, just to try something other than FFXI

 

[Teknopathetic]

"If MMORPG were designed to be played only for 40 hours, all these companies will be out of business."

This is a true statement, unfortunately, I don't care to spend 60 hours (how much I ultimately DID spend with FFXI) doing something that bores me on the hope and promise that there will be a little extra reward eventually.

"I don't think it's much of a cop out to say knowing how to play a game should be required for impressions."

The cop out is saying that I don't. I don't think I'm an extraordinaire, but I can figure out a game easily enough with actual playtime and some reading.

"but the nonsense and general bullshit is just staggering at times concerning the naysayers for FFXI."

So far, you haven't said what is nonsense and bullshit. All I am reading is "that's bullshit! you were too low level, etc. etc." You've spent more time attacking the validity of my points than the points themselves.

 

[Mock]

And you guys are saying that post 60 hours playtime the game changes SO DRASTICALLY that anyone who has played less than that couldn't POSSIBLY "grasp" or "understand" the game enough to have a reliable opinion on it's entertainment value?

I'd say about every ten levels or so, a new dimension of the game hits. By the time you hit 20 in the game, if you haven't levelled your subjob - much less actually gotten one - you are seen as a joke and will not get parties as easily as you did starting out.

And learning how to use those subjobs is a critical aspect of the game. You have to learn what works for you and for partys and what doesn't. You might think a WHM/WAR is the way to go, but people wanting heals will think differently.

after 25, quest and missions just aren't a cakewalk and you've got to learn how to form PTs. Not to mention the main continents are much more accessable to you after 20.

After 30, you have the chance to get the advanced jobs and see what they can do. You'll also get hit with the reality that they are not, in fact, uber jobs and have just as many cons as they do pros. Those jobs are really for the players who want a bigger challenge. Paladins can take a shitload of damage and they do shit for damage - their priority is hate control of the mobs, they are not damage dealers. Dark Knight are poweful damage dealers, but are essentially paper dolls otherwise. Summoners have lots of great party buffs and can be great back up healers - but the road is a long, costly and challenging one and you have zero melee ability or protection outside of those summons.

And from 50 on up, well just, go to the online board and check out the FFXI topic. Some of the stuff at high levels is crazy.

Simply playing a job or two doesn't even let you grasp the scope of this game. In EQ, I was forced down a singular path and if I wanted to play another job, I had to make whole new character. Not to mention some jobs were restricted by race. I get a lot more freedom to do as I please in FFXI.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Hmmm I guess I'm gonna play Lineage 2, just to try something other than FFXI

NO BIG MISTAKE, DID YOU NOT SEE MY WARNINGS?

 

[Drinky Crow]

Lineage 2 makes FFXI look fun, seriously.

 

[Ferrio]

Lineage 2 makes FFXI look fun, seriously.

If anything convinces you to play FFXI over Lineage 2, that quote coming from that man should.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Ignore these people, I've spent two months with this game. TWO HORRIBLY AGNONIZING MONTHS IN ORDER TO APPEASE MY FRIENDS. I can tell you from first-hand experience that Lineage II is a horrible peice of shit that they expect you to pay $15 a month for. Sure it features full on PVP (an idea that I love) but there is nothing worthwhile in the game outside of slow and boring combat. Even the entire economy is fucked over by thousands of Chinese botters constantly farming cash.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Ah fuck it. I'll go on playing DAoC minding my own. Looks like it's destined to be ignored.

 

[Tabris]

Tre, you were a LV20 who topped out in Valkurm in an English only beta in which 99% of the players were crap (myself included) as a Warrior looking to sub DRK in the future.

...Hahahaha.

Tre's opinion is from the NA only beta? That is SO classic!

 

[Outdoor Miner]

...Hahahaha.

Tre's opinion is from the NA only beta? That is SO classic!

But mine and others aren't. And we share those same sentiments regarding FFXI.

 

[TekunoRobby]

I'd like to add that I've heard nothing but praise and love for DAoC.

Also Everquest II and WoW are on the horizon. Those are guaranteed to be big sellers in the MMO genre so if you want to go with popularity head in that direction.

Another MMO that has caught my eye is Dark and Light. There are tons of others to be sure but I don't remember their names!

 

[madara]

I don't care that it takes team work in FFXI, I care that it's boring, the combat sucks, the enviroment is drab as hell, everyone that has the same class/race looks almost exactly the same, you fight the exact same enemies over and over and over... ugh, and dont even get me started on the crafting system.

Exactly! Well said.

 

[DJ Demon J]

Hmmm I guess I'm gonna play Lineage 2, just to try something other than FFXI

Another life saved. We did excellent work, Tre, Mr. Cheez.

 

[RuGalz]

Another poor soul that will never play any other MMO cuz of L2.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I hear that Dark Age of Camelot game is really good.

A lot of the changes in the RvR revamp have helped to tie leveling in better with participation in competitive realm vs. realm combat. If you pick a higher population server, all you have to do is get to level 15 or 20 and you can basically work through the leveling grind through killing other players with the rest of your realm, if that's your thing.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

That and they added bg's for lvl's 1-15.

 

[MrCheez]

Another life saved. We did excellent work, Tre, Mr. Cheez.

This thread ended up giving me a headache, but it looks like it was well worth it! ;D

In all seriousness tho, Lineage does indeed suck too. ><

 

[Shouta]

Man, I missed another FFXI thread. I`ll have to come back and post some shit after I get back from Akihabara

 

[MrCheez]

You didn't miss much, just the same old epic battle that we've had in at least 5 other threads. @_@