Support NeoGAF

[cpp_is_king]

If you want to get really technical, Vit0 refers to any debuff that applies a penalty to stats. In FFRK terms, breaks, Deprotega, Status Reels, etc. all are Vit0 abilities. The Vit0 exploit on the other hand exploits the way some abilities interact, dropping down DEF to 2 (hard minimum instead of 0, probably to avoid divide-by-zero type issues)

In the case of bosses whose stats change, the amount reduced by debuffs (Vit0, strictly speaking) don't change. This is also why you can hit Rubicante for 9999 after he uncloaks if you Vit0 him while he's cloaked. I'm guessing in the case of this event, the change in stats from before/after coming out of the ground is not drastic enough for the Vit0 to reduce his defense to 0 (or rather, 2).

It's still technically Vit0 though :V. As is the act of simply hitting any mob with any of the Breaks, even if their stat doesn't drop to 2.

Never heard it used this way. But with all due respect, that's a pretty stupid definition -- if we're actually being technical. I mean, vit 0, litearlly means "0 vitality". Applying a debuff does not mean you've debuffed it so far that it's 0. You could reduce it's defense by 1%, and you're technically applying a debuff, and by this definition that would be vit0.

Not saying you're wrong, it is on that wiki after all. So maybe this is an accepted term in JRPGs or other Final Fantasy games which I've never heard of, but I'm going to just reject it on principle because it's completely misleading.

In any case, we're just arguing semantics, I think in the context of FFRK everyone who uses VIT0 in any context uses it to mean "the thing that lets me hit for 9999 on every attack"

 

[Falk]

It's an accepted term in Final Fantasy, I guess. Had the translation team not been paying attention, breaks would probably have been translated as Vit-0 or veto or whatever instead.

It's kinda like how Status Null got translated as "S-Na" (esu-na, esuna) and became a generally accepted term.

The only recent (lol) game where VIT-0 actually meant ZERO would be FF8, really. You get hit by it and attacks REALLY FREAKING HURT.

 

[Red Mage]

In regards to RW...

So, if I use the Shell-All ability, it does the matter which character or their level, right?

 

[Road]

Never heard it used this way. But with all due respect, that's a pretty stupid definition -- if we're actually being technical. I mean, vit 0, litearlly means "0 vitality". Applying a debuff does not mean you've debuffed it so far that it's 0. You could reduce it's defense by 1%, and you're technically applying a debuff, and by this definition that would be vit0.

Not saying you're wrong, it is on that wiki after all. So maybe this is an accepted term in JRPGs or other Final Fantasy games which I've never heard of, but I'm going to just reject it on principle because it's completely misleading.

In any case, we're just arguing semantics, I think in the context of FFRK everyone who uses VIT0 in any context uses it to mean "the thing that lets me hit for 9999 on every attack"

I don't know if it is the same coding mishap, but it is similar:

1. You protect a monster, you increase its defense. Sinspawn within shell and Rubicante defending already have the increased defense, so you skip this step.

2. You deprotect/armor break the monster to reduce its increased defense. Same for both.

3. You protect again and the monster defense is changed in a wrong way. The same thing happens when the monster change forms by itself.

It is possible you were just hitting 9999 normally (I don't know your stats), but the procedure you described is pretty much the same used to exploit VIT0 in ffrk.

 

[Falk]

It's due to the way the buffs work in FFRK, where the value of a buff/debuff is calculated on application instead of when a damage event occurs, leading to all sorts of oddball behavior.

This isn't exactly how it works in the game but it's still useful for visualizing what's going on: take Atma weapon for example

Atma has 451DEF

1) You cast protect which doubles DEF
game looks at Atma's DEF (451), assigns a Protect buff with the value of 451 to Atma

Atma has 451 + 451(Protect) = 902 DEF

2) You cast deprotega which halves DEF
game looks at Atma's DEF (902), assigns a Deprotega debuff with the value of 451 to Atma

Atma has 451 + 451(Protect) - 451(Deprotega) = 451DEF

3) You cast protect again
First, game removes Protect buff from Atma

Atma has 451 - 451(Deprotega) = 0DEF
game looks at Atma's DEF (0), assigns a Protect buff with the value of 0 to Atma

Atma has 451 - 451(Deprotega) + 0(Protect) = 0

For whatever reason though, the minimum defense you can get is 2, so all damage calcs use 2.



The same thing happens on bosses with stat changes. The value assigned to buffs/debuffs don't change even though the boss drops. So a boss that has, say, 300DEF when cloaked, eats a 150DEF Deprotega, then goes into a form that, has, say, 180DEF, and Deprotega remains at 150DEF, meaning the boss now has a paltry 30DEF and many attacks will hit for 9999.

In regards to RW...

So, if I use the Shell-All ability, it does the matter which character or their level, right?

Shell-all doubles RES regardless of level.

 

[cpp_is_king]

I don't know if it is the same coding mishap, but it is similar:

1. You protect a monster, you increase its defense. Sinspawn within shell and Rubicante defending already have the increased defense, so you skip this step.

2. You deprotect/armor break the monster to reduce its increased defense. Same for both.

3. You protect again and the monster defense is changed in a wrong way. The same thing happens when the monster change forms by itself.

It is possible you were just hitting 9999 normally (I don't know your stats), but the procedure you described is pretty much the same used to exploit VIT0 in ffrk.

Well the thing is that that boss is weak to Fire, and it was a Tier 2 spellstrike, and I had Valor Minuet II and Armor Break on the monster.

I know the procedure I described is simialr to the vit0 exploit, but the difference is you don't have to protect it first (you can't, anyway, since you can't target that enemy with spells utnil you kill his arms).

In the story version of the dungeon you don't actually need to cast protect on him, because of a glitch where he's already protected when he's in the ground and when he comes out of the ground it's like a dispel, so the effect is the same. But that seems to be fixed in this version of the boss (I tried it 4 times and couldn't get 9999 after he came out of the ground following a Status Reels).

In any case, some people don't like using the vit0 thing because they feel it's exploity, and this is completely legit. Valor Minuet II, Armor Break, Fira Strike, and Cloud using a fully upgraded Fencing Blade, and your Fira Strike will do 9999 every hit. No cheap tricks. Everyone else will just do regular attacks in the 2-4k range, so it's definitely not in its exploited form.

 

[Falk]

In the story version of the dungeon you don't actually need to cast protect on him, because of a glitch where he's already protected when he's in the ground and when he comes out of the ground it's like a dispel, so the effect is the same. But that seems to be fixed in this version of the boss (I tried it 4 times and couldn't get 9999 with Status Reels after he came out of the ground).

I don't think it's that he's already had Protect on him, so much as the variance of stat change in the story dungeon is enough to bring his defense down to 0, while in the event version it isn't, but is hovering at a very value.

 

[Pejo]

Hell yea! Just got Phoenix! Thanks again random painted highway, that strategy was flawless. I almost regret not trying to champion the previous battles leading up to the boss to get mastery. Oh well, on to Tidus event!

 

[Vorpal]

I hate to ask again but is this banner worth rolling ? Have about 50 mythril and am pretty new so don't want to waste so much.

It really comes down to your own discretion, but here are some general pointers:

-- If your best gear is sitting between 2-3* and you've hit a spike in difficulty, investing 15 mythril for a 3-pull couldn't hurt so long as you can still benefit from most 3*-4* gear--keeping in mind that you can combine duplicates to strengthen them even further. This would generally apply to any banner, and you could always luck out with one of the featured weapons/gear.

-- If your best gear is ranging in the 4-5*++ category, and you're just hungry for a weapon with a Soul Break, Tidus is a fairly mediocre banner to invest in. The SB on the Monk Robe doesn't add much beyond Esuna, and while the Heat Lance and Soldier's Sabre offer neat AE attacks, you can eventually achieve the same effect with Bladeblitz or Terra's SB. These weapons definitely aren't useless, but usually people horde mythril for a relic that offers something not easily replicated through abilities (i.e., Vanille's AE debuff, Locke's AE + Slow, an SB with groupwide Haste + Protect).

-- If you're determined to make an 11-pull, and you just want all of the things, you're better off waiting for a banner that offers closer to a 10% chance at nabbing a 5* relic. (Usually multi-character banners.) If I remember correctly, the Tidus banner is hovering around a 5% chance for a 5*.

-- IMO, it's fun (or infuriating) to just go after weapons with nostalgic value. I sank all of my mythril into the Tidus banner because I just really like Brotherhood. I'll probably throw actual money at an FFV Gilgamesh banner because hell yes FFV.

 

[elty]

Just tried Airship without VIT0, lost 4 medals in 2nd stage and wiped on 3rd stage.

I have 5* weapon and armor for everyone too.

 

[Falk]

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

 

[forgrim]

Thanks a lot vorpal, helps alot

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

Thats a pretty big fuck up, considering the entire game is based around stamina and lack there of.

 

[thedan001]

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

I'd still prefer having all characters + warrior unlocked instead of some stamina! gogo day 1 FFRK players!

 

[Red Mage]

Alright, gonna make RM my WR.

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

So, say I haven't cleared all of the previous elites, I now get more...? ^_^ Thank you DeNa!

 

[Hours Left]

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

Sweet. More stam for me!

 

[Don_Tombery]

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

Wait, if i haven't cleared all eltites now I'll have more stamina?
Which are the ones having more shards as reward? Maybe I was lucky. I have a couple of elites left...

 

[cpp_is_king]

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

So what's the correct amount of stamina? I'm assuming the bug is that they upped the stamina shard rewards for existing dungeons, and the the correct value is still 100 2/5?

 

[Red Mage]

They all look the same to me. Didn't each one give two?

 

[Vorpal]

Ruh roh

- JP started at 20 stam

- We started at 30 stam

- Our stamina shard rewards were (important tense) less than JP so that they'd add up to the same.

- With this patch, the rewards went back to the JP values because rofl DeNA. This change is not retroactive.

- Meaning if you clear elites post-patch and get the new set of rewards, you'll have more stamina than 100 2/5.

I want this fixed (everyone gets more stam yay!) and I want free Mythril for this mistake.

DeNA pls

I don't have any response I just wanted to keep this quote chain going.

Edit: DANGIT RED MAGE

 

[Red Mage]

I don't have any response I just wanted to keep this quote chain going.

Edit: DANGIT RED MAGE

NOBODY expects the Red Mage Interruption!

 

[thedan001]

NOBODY expects the Red Mage Interruption!

reminds me of FFXI's rdm chainspell stun so dps can zerg it down in endgame stuff

actually today I just paralyze-locked ultima weapon while burning it down with vit0, same experience!

 

[Falk]

So what's the correct amount of stamina? I'm assuming the bug is that they upped the stamina shard rewards for existing dungeons, and the the correct value is still 100 2/5?

I'm assuming the correct value was 100 - such a nice number.

Who knows how they're gonna handle this though. I mean technically it shouldn't be hard to create an algo that basically goes through the accounts and sends stamina shards as gift items based on what dungeons you've already completed, and I'm not sure if there's as easy a way to deduct total stamina from people.

Or maybe they'll be jerks and just let the differing amounts of stamina slide.

proof: (GameFAQs)

 

[Hours Left]

You can change Battle Speed in the pause menu too? Excellent.

 

[thedan001]

You can change Battle Speed in the pause menu too? Excellent.

definitely excellent, I use 2 while I actually play elite events to give me better decisions during response time, and 5 for auto-battle

 

[Falk]

p.s. for all you people asking "why don't we get all features from the start!?!@" shit like this is why lol

So many things you have to take into account when you're doing something that's not exactly the way JP had its game.

edit: My hypothesis is they probably changed the rewards from the JP version this patch (Wakka memory crystal for example) and totally forgot that they'd changed the stamina shard rewards prior, basically undoing their first set of changes. Woops!

 

[cpp_is_king]

p.s. for all you people asking "why don't we get all features from the start!?!@" shit like this is why lol

So many things you have to take into account when you're doing something that's not exactly the way JP had its game.

edit: My hypothesis is they probably changed the rewards from the JP version this patch (Wakka memory crystal for example) and totally forgot that they'd changed the stamina shard rewards prior, basically undoing their first set of changes. Woops!

Shouldn't be hard for them to fix it. Take the game offline, do a maintenance, write a tool that iterates of every user's account, looks at the dungeons they've completed, and writes the correct value to the max stamina field back into the database for their account

 

[Falk]

Yeh, they gotta be very, very careful with future updates.

Spoiler

or just have proper versioning

 

[Noi]

We already have QoL updates that the Japanese version didn't have until way way later too. I'm 99% sure that they didn't have dungeon info until after the Quistis/Selphie event, which is still a long time from now for us.

 

[Falk]

And battle speeds, and friend summons.

And record synergy when the game launched.

And the whole 30 vs 20 stamina thing.

I'm not saying we don't. I'm pointing out why it's always a risk to deviate from something that already works, especially if you're short on QA or programming support or both.

 

[Nohar]

Screw it. I'll do Phoenix Cave with the Vit0 trick.

Sadly, a friend Vanille doesn't seem to pop... I'm doing the daily in the hope of unlocking her >_< How does that list even works? We are limited to 20 potential summons? How many Friends and Randoms? AND WHY IS IT SO LAGGY?! Good Lord, if only they made that app worked smoother... The game is correct/good for a Freemium app, but that lag really is insane. Were it not a Final Fantasy game, I bet no one would have give it any interest because of how crappy it runs.

 

[Falk]

You can repeatedly do Fabul castle for 1 stam to reroll the list till you get something you want.

 

[Ben Morales]

reminds me of FFXI's rdm chainspell stun so dps can zerg it down in endgame stuff

Oh god, you just gave me a FFXI nostalgia rush! RDM cast Refresh dammit!

Spoiler

I want a FFRK Taru Taru sprite.

 

[thedan001]

Screw it. I'll do Phoenix Cave with the Vit0 trick.

Sadly, a friend Vanille doesn't seem to pop... I'm doing the daily in the hope of unlocking her >_< How does that list even works? We are limited to 20 potential summons? How many Friends and Randoms? AND WHY IS IT SO LAGGY?! Good Lord, if only they made that app worked smoother... The game is correct/good for a Freemium app, but that lag really is insane. Were it not a Final Fantasy game, I bet no one would have give it any interest because of how crappy it runs.

If there's no Vanille/Deprotega... and you have several of her in your friendlist then go to fabul castle in FFIV classic and do 1 stamina run, retreat and try Phoenix Cave again and see if you get a Vanille roll

edit: Falk beat me

 

[Nohar]

Thank you for the advices regarding refreshing the friend summon list. I managed to get Vanille and Vit0 the Red Dragon to death. I'm not proud, but, frankly, there was no way for me to complete this challenge in time otherwise.

Well, FFXII dungeons can't come soon enough. Storm Spear 3*+, Trident 4*, Hammerhead 4*, Long Bow 1*++ and Steel Axe 1*++ ready. With Fran and Balthier being able to equip spears, it is going to be a breeze.

On a side note: the Festival of Gold looks sexy. Mythril, Pampa summon, 5* Growth Egg and 5* Sword? Give it to me!!! However it seems our version of the event won't last that long, so I guess the rewards won't be the same...
Edit: Nevermind. It seems I confused the Festival of Gold event with the Golden Saucer one.

Balthier's event can't come soon enough. I'll definitly do a 11 pull for him. But I guess we won't see that one anytime soon.

 

[Nohar]

(My bad. I was sure someone else posted in the meanwhile. My apologies. Please disregard that double-post or delete it).

 

[thedan001]

so.... who's with me dedicating the whole day to Tuesday's daily?

obligatory whycantiholdalltheseblack&powerorbs.gif

 

[Nohar]

so.... who's with me dedicating the whole day to Tuesday's daily?

obligatory whycantiholdalltheseblack&powerorbs.gif

Pretty much the same here. We can never have enough (lesser) Power orbs. Not to mention we have those abilities quests to complete.

 

[Falk]

I know that I'm burning a shit ton of Mythril for stam refreshes these few days, and then paying for one 11 pull on a banner when I want to pull.

Other than the stamina shard glitch, it's an awesome patch. DeNA deserves it.

 

[Hours Left]

According to reddit, the only elite dungeon that had its rewards reverted back to the Japanese values was Darill's Tomb. So it's not a widespread issue.

Though it'll still cause a discrepancy. I wonder how they'll address it.

 

[Shahadan]

I like how the banners above the free pull are FF7 related. Guess we were supposed to get that shinra event.

I definitely appreciate that they try to give us stuff in advance rather than just copy/paste the jp version

 

[Falk]

The Tidus banner also awards some XII and IX loot not previously in the game.

It definitely was supposed to come after the dungeon update lol

 

[Wazzy]

Hmm if it's Darrils Tomb I don't think I finished it lol

Also I'm on the last three elites of Tidus event. I'll attempt them later when my bar is full.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

The Tidus banner also awards some XII and IX loot not previously in the game.

It definitely was supposed to come after the dungeon update lol

I've done 3 single pulls and got a bunch of FF12 gear.
Its crazy how much I've got since the game started and the game still hasn't made its debut yet.

 

[Falk]

interestingly enough, one of the pictures in the email they sent out

When you see it...

 

[thedan001]

When you see it...

...wut? those are HP bars on trash? unless those are some kinda bosses, sure doesn't look like it tho

Always thought HP bars were on bosses in JP

sure is interesting

 

[Falk]

Also Yuna and Seph's 2nd soul break.

The image was to showcase friend summons.

I guess they just randomly grabbed any picture of a friend summon they had lying around lol

 

[Macnair]

Phoenix get! Thanks Vit0.

This trick made the game fun again until I pulled another staff hahahha.

 

[thedan001]

Falk, how do you subscribe to their email newsletters btw?

 

[Falk]

I don't even know!