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[Brandon F]

Basch's weird triangle vest is the only clothing I take issue with. Aside from Fran and Ashe dressing like... yeah

The vest is flipped open so that it forms two triangles. Why?

There are actually more pieces to the outfit involved he is not wearing. You can even see other NPC's in the game wearing the full uniform(Bhujerba has a few) insinuating that he is kind of holding onto his legacy, but his current predicament has him only co-opting the jacket portion.

(I'll see if I can grab a screenshot next time I spot one, but pay close attention yourself. You'll see that jacket being worn by many others)

 

[Baloonatic]

The artwork during the credits looks so beautiful.

My opinion of the game is about the same as it always was. I think it drags in places, especially the last few dungeons. The 4x speedup does alleviate that a bit.

Other than that, still a fantastic game. Love the world and the characters especially. The story and writing is a nice change from the usual JRPG stuff.

The remaster looks really nice as well and I was happy to have a good reason to replay it. Feels like a long time since that IZJS translation.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I haven't looked up the lore in Ivalice too much yet, but I can't stop thinking how FFXII time period is before FFT's then what happened to all the airships?

Did something happen between games that made Ivalice civilization lose the tech for airships when FFT came about?

Airships and other races such as moogles are mentioned as part of Ivalice's history in FFT, referred to as a "golden age"

St. Ajora lived during a time of airships.

A cataclysm happens 92 years after XII that wipes out non-humes and technology.

The Ajora backstory from FFT isn't that far off from XII, must happen during or soon after the mysterious cataclysm

There are actually more pieces to the outfit involved he is not wearing. You can even see other NPC's in the game wearing the full uniform(Bhujerba has a few) insinuating that he is kind of holding onto his legacy, but his current predicament has him only co-opting the jacket portion.

(I'll see if I can grab a screenshot next time I spot one, but pay close attention yourself. You'll see that jacket being worn by many others)

This is awesome. I still hate the design but the lore is cool

 

[YankeeDonB]

There are actually more pieces to the outfit involved he is not wearing. You can even see other NPC's in the game wearing the full uniform(Bhujerba has a few) insinuating that he is kind of holding onto his legacy, but his current predicament has him only co-opting the jacket portion.

(I'll see if I can grab a screenshot next time I spot one, but pay close attention yourself. You'll see that jacket being worn by many others)

Don't the street soldiers in Bhujerba wear this? What does Bhujerba have to do w/ Landis?

Basch got his new clothes in Rabanastre too, not Bhujerba, so I still don't get why he's wearing this particular outfit.

 

[Maledict]

Airships and other races such as moogles are mentioned as part of Ivalice's history in FFT, referred to as a "golden age"

St. Ajora lived during a time of airships.

A cataclysm happens 92 years after XII that wipes out non-humes and technology.

The Ajora backstory from FFT isn't that far off from XII, must happen during or soon after the mysterious cataclysm


This is awesome. I still hate the design but the lore is cool

I've always assumed the notion of Ivalice being a shared world was just usual Square Enid gibberish to tie unconnected things together, but are you saying the actual game lore has every non-Hume species going *extinct* less than a century after ff12?

 

[Syntsui]

Is it normal that Foebreaker is fucking worthless for the first half of the game? I have zero skills for it and past Phon Coast, zip. So yeah it has high STR etc but for actual technicks I mean.

Yeah really weird how they locked the breakdown skills so far into the game.

 

[iosefe]

I've always assumed the notion of Ivalice being a shared world was just usual Square Enid gibberish to tie unconnected things together, but are you saying the actual game lore has every non-Hume species going *extinct* less than a century after ff12?

i mean, when you put it that way, shit's kinda bleak

 

[MogCakes]

XII is the golden age of Ivalice in technology and diversity of civilization. It all goes to hell after the game's events, quite possibly because of the actions of Vayne and Ashe

Spoiler

directly leading to the espers (yes, THOSE espers) causing the cataclysm.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I've always assumed the notion of Ivalice being a shared world was just usual Square Enid gibberish to tie unconnected things together, but are you saying the actual game lore has every non-Hume species going *extinct* less than a century after ff12?

Basically... yes. I assume it doesn't happen immediately, though.

XII is the golden age of Ivalice in technology and diversity of civilization. It all goes to hell after the game's events, quite possibly because of the actions of Vayne and Ashe

Spoiler

directly leading to the espers (yes, THOSE espers) causing the cataclysm.

I wouldn't be surprised if

Spoiler

Vayne and Venat

had something to do with it. The espers in this game are definitely responsible for a lot of shit down the line, so I wouldn't put it past them to play a hand in the cataclysm as well.

 

[Ralemont]

Playing through FF12 was one of the best "slow" plot twists I've ever experienced, coming off Final Fantasy Tactics. It's not a focus of the story at all but when you realize what happens later in Ivalice due to

Spoiler

unlocking those espers...

 

[Maledict]

Well, that's fucking bleak. Still go back to the comment about SE tying unconnected things together - why would you nuke a really interesting world like FF12 for no purpose other than saying it's in the same setting as FFT? What's the point of that? Off-screen extinctions is incredibly weird.

BTw, appreciate the spoilers - this will be the first time I actually complete the game!

 

[aadiboy]

Wait, if humans go extinct, how do they come back for Tactics? And how do people know this cataclysm happens exactly 92 years after XII?

 

[RPGCrazied]

Anyway to get teleport stones easier? I have some hunts to do but some of them are so far out don't know if I want to do them yet. Probably should wait until I

Spoiler

get the airship at this point.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Wait, if humans go extinct, how do they come back for Tactics? And how do people know this cataclysm happens exactly 92 years after XII?

Humes don't, everyone else does.

 

[Ourobolus]

Tournesol get!

Man getting Dark Elementals to spawn in Nabudis was surprisingly a pain in the ass.

 

[Zesh]

Anyway to get teleport stones easier? I have some hunts to do but some of them are so far out don't know if I want to do them yet. Probably should wait until I

Spoiler

get the airship at this point.

You can buy them on airships for 200 gil.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Anyway to get teleport stones easier? I have some hunts to do but some of them are so far out don't know if I want to do them yet. Probably should wait until I

Spoiler

get the airship at this point.

They're a pretty easy farm. Try stealing from bats in the Lhusu mines.

Spoiler

There's a guy on a Chocobo just outside of Balfoheim who sells teleport stones.

You can buy them on airships for 200 gil.

Oh wow. That's even better.

 

[AmethystEnd]

Well, that's fucking bleak. Still go back to the comment about SE tying unconnected things together - why would you nuke a really interesting world like FF12 for no purpose other than saying it's in the same setting as FFT? What's the point of that? Off-screen extinctions is incredibly weird.

100% agreed. I just ignore this shared world bullshit, mostly.

Viera and Bangaa are really cool races. Fuck the idea that a century later they're just all dead.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Well, that's fucking bleak. Still go back to the comment about SE tying unconnected things together - why would you nuke a really interesting world like FF12 for no purpose other than saying it's in the same setting as FFT? What's the point of that? Off-screen extinctions is incredibly weird.

BTw, appreciate the spoilers - this will be the first time I actually complete the game!

It's not SE connecting things that weren't supposed to. Ivalice Matsuno's creation. and it's not like it's "off-screen" cause there are no games where the cataclysm would be relevant to the story.

 

[RPGCrazied]

You can buy them on airships for 200 gil.

They're a pretty easy farm. Try stealing from bats in the Lhusu mines.

Spoiler

There's a guy on a Chocobo just outside of Balfoheim who sells teleport stones.

Oh wow. That's even better.

Nice. Didn't know that about the airship. I'm guessing you have to get the expensive cabin for npc to show up?

 

[Diablos54]

Think I've figured out how I'm going to handle stealing finally!

Foe = 100% HP - Steal
Foe = >=90 HP - Attack

Been working okay so far, still need to try a few other combinations though.

 

[Maledict]

Think I've figured out how I'm going to handle stealing finally!

Foe = 100% HP - Steal
Foe = >=90 HP - Attack

Been working okay so far, still need to try a few other combinations though.

Not sure what the second line here does. The hero will always attempt to run the steal command if there's an enemy at full health in combat with you, the second line doesn't matter at all with that. It could be any attack command at all.

 

[Zesh]

Nice. Didn't know that about the airship. I'm guessing you have to get the expensive cabin for npc to show up?

You just need to choose the leisure craft option (or whatever it is, the one that lets you explore the airship). It shouldn't be more expensive.

 

[Jennipeg]

It's not SE connecting things that weren't supposed to. Ivalice Matsuno's creation. and it's not like it's "off-screen" cause there are no games where the cataclysm would be relevant to the story.

That's true, FFXII was made to fit with Tactics. Its not like the Shinra FFX-2 thing.

 

[Ralemont]

It's not SE connecting things that weren't supposed to. Ivalice Matsuno's creation. and it's not like it's "off-screen" cause there are no games where the cataclysm would be relevant to the story.

Would pay so much for a Cataclysm and/or Ajora game, though. The Ivalice Trilogy.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Yeah, it's very clear XII was made with FFT's "golden age of airships" in mind. It all came from the same mind and was very deliberate.

 

[YankeeDonB]

Damn, this cataclysm stuff does cast XII's story in a much bleaker light.

The whole thing at the end (late game spoilers)

Spoiler

w/ Ashe deciding NOT to roll w/ the Occuria's idea and become a new dynast king. It's classic FF "power of friendship/hope/individualism!" stuff, and I didn't really question it when I played the original game. But if the Occuria were looking to maintain stability, Ashe spits in their faces, and a cataclysm (likely involving the espers the crew unlocks) happens w/in a hundred years, maybe Ashe made the wrong choice. Presumably Penelo and Vaan's children (or at least grandchildren) lived to see this go down.

Now I want a game set during the cataclysm....

 

[MogCakes]

That's true, FFXII was made to fit with Tactics. Its not like the Shinra FFX-2 thing.

Narratively it's just an easy excuse for not having non-humes in FFT since XII is set before then.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Think I've figured out how I'm going to handle stealing finally!

Foe = 100% HP - Steal
Foe = >=90 HP - Attack

Been working okay so far, still need to try a few other combinations though.

It helps to make the thief the party-leader. They're all but guaranteed to get the first move in when you run into a monster.

 

[AmethystEnd]

Narratively it's just an easy excuse for not having non-humes in FFT since XII is set before then.

That's why I have a problem with it, lol.

You could say it's a "deliberate" choice if FFT came out AFTER XII, but since it didn't, it just comes off as a hastily thrown together excuse.

 

[Ralemont]

That's why I have a problem with it, lol.

You could say it's a "deliberate" choice if FFT came out AFTER XII, but since it didn't, it just comes off as a hastily thrown together excuse.

But the Cataclysm was something talked about in Tactics, which mentioned explicitly that it wiped out at least one non-hume race. If it's now being used to explain no viera and such, that's actually a totally reasonable explanation given the timeline.

 

[MogCakes]

That's why I have a problem with it, lol.

You could say it's a "deliberate" choice if FFT came out AFTER XII, but since it didn't, it just comes off as a hastily thrown together excuse.

All the same, a game covering that time period where everything falls apart would be really awesome. Though I don't think it will happen.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Narratively it's just an easy excuse for not having non-humes in FFT since XII is set before then.

Not really.

Description from the "Floating Castle" wonder from FFT:

"The winged ones possessed technology allowing them to transmute cloudstone into crystals, like the ones that keep this castle aloft. Unfortunately, both the winged ones and their wounderous knowledge were lost in the Cataclysm."

Go to the world map and hover over The Siedge Weald (formerly Sweegy Woods), in between Gariland and Dorter, and press Select. The description reads:

"An ancient forest surrounded on all sides by mountains. Said to have once been home to a race of extinct moogles."

Occuria and Moogles, along with Nethicite, are all mentioned in FFT. Also, Archadian soldiers and airships are mentioned by Agrias concerning the city of Goug:

"They say the ruins of a lost civilization lie buried beneath the streets of Goug, the Clockwork City. Relics from the age of Saint Ajora, when airships numerous beyond counting filled the skies, and men of iron walked city streets. But the art of crafting such things was lost—if it ever truly existed at all."

 

[aadiboy]

Are we sure that the Ivalice games aren't just a set of shared races, locations, and motifs? I mean, you can get Balthier in WoTL, right?

 

[MogCakes]

Not really.

I'm not so much saying it wasn't thought out as I am that it comes across as an alibi, even though it's just how things happened in development. When FFT was first made XII wasn't even an idea yet as a numbered FF, so the lore of non-humes that used to exist wasn't meant to be expanded into a full story of its own...yet. Then when XII was created, the vibrancy of Ivalice's golden age was overshadowed by the lore of FFT. Anyone discovering that would be accordingly bummed out, I think.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Are we sure that the Ivalice games aren't just a set of shared races, locations, and motifs? I mean, you can get Balthier in WoTL, right?

Not sure what you mean, especially considering that you can get Cloud in FFT as well.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Are we sure that the Ivalice games aren't just a set of shared races, locations, and motifs? I mean, you can get Balthier in WoTL, right?

Positive. Even Balthier's appearance in WotL could be considered canon. He was after the Cache of Glabados at the end of Revenent Wings, which (interpreted through inferred dialogue) sent him into Ivalice's future, during the time of the War of the Lions.

Taken from the wiki concerning his recruitment in Tactics:

"After the battle, Balthier explains he is a sky pirate looking for the Cache of Glabados. Ramza thinks Balthier is referring to the auracite, and when he asks Balthier what the cache is Balthier only mentions it is the reason he is currently in Ivalice."

Even writing this encounter out of the picture entirely, it's 100% certain that all Ivalice games (with the possible exception of the conjured Ivalice from FFTA) are on the same calendar in the same world. Vagrant Story is the one outlier, which shares motifs and names with the rest of Ivalice but was only later retrofitted into the setting itself, which happened around the time of FFXII, IIRC.

Ivalice's wiki article

The dates all line up and the world all comes from Matsuno's mind.

I'm not so much saying it wasn't thought out as I am that it comes across as an alibi, even though it's just how things happened in development. When FFT was first made XII wasn't even an idea yet as a numbered FF, so the lore of non-humes that used to exist wasn't meant to be expanded into a full story of its own...yet. Then when XII was created, the vibrancy of Ivalice's golden age was overshadowed by the lore of FFT. Anyone discovering that would be accordingly bummed out, I think.

The creative process doesn't work in a linear fashion. From an out of universe perspective, yes, the Viera, Bangaa, etc. were thought up after Tactics for certain. However, they were made to fit into the pre-catalcysm world based on pre-established lore via the cataclysm. Everything ends up fitting together in the end.

Think about it. A group of devs sits around a table and sets out to design a distant prequel. They have previous lore to work with, but they also have to create a totally original world. Of course it's not going to have been planned out from day one, especially since Tactics was a spinoff and XII is a mainline entry sharing its world made ten or so odd years later.

 

[Ralemont]

Are we sure that the Ivalice games aren't just a set of shared races, locations, and motifs? I mean, you can get Balthier in WoTL, right?

Yeah but I mean that's largely a cameo. Even so, Balthier remarks in WoTL that the Cache of Glabados brought him there into the future, which is (FF12 spoilers kinda)

Spoiler

something he mentions going after

I'm not so much saying it wasn't thought out as I am that it comes across as an alibi, even though it's just how things happened in development. When FFT was first made XII wasn't even an idea yet as a numbered FF, so the lore of non-humes that used to exist wasn't meant to be expanded into a full story of its own...yet. Then when XII was created, the vibrancy of Ivalice's golden age was overshadowed by the lore of FFT. Anyone discovering that would be accordingly bummed out, I think.

true, but I think it befits Matsuno and Ivalice that history has its ebbs and flows and there's no happily ever after. It's kinda like the Days of Future Past/Logan situation in X-Men.

 

[Bolivar687]

Matsuno has had multiple episodes of his world fleshed out in his head going back to the Quest days. It makes sense for their biggest and most detailed game to be the "Year 0" story, to explain where these zodiac stones came from and why people are constantly warring for them across Ivalice and Xytegenia.

 

[thedan001]

Thanks for all the posts about the catalysm influencing the state and setting of FFT.

I played FFT something like 10 years ago so I wouldn't be able to remember all the lore involved.

I'm planning to do a replay of FFT and maybe pick up on revenant wings after I'm done with FFXII.

Also never played Vagrant Story, I'll need to play that also.

Ivalice is an amazing world to get immersed into. Someone should make a big portrait or timeline outlining all the events in the Ivalice world and history and how it all connects.

 

[SprachBrooks]

When

Spoiler

Reddas

teams up with you, is that close to the end game? I can’t remember much from when I played it on PS2.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Ivalice is the setting FF needs to explore a lot more of. It has a lot of potential and I am hope FF16 is a return to it in a big way.

 

[MogCakes]

The creative process doesn't work in a linear fashion. From an out of universe perspective, yes, the Viera, Bangaa, etc. were thought up after Tactics for certain. However, they were made to fit into the pre-catalcysm world based on pre-established lore via the cataclysm. Everything ends up fitting together in the end.

Think about it. A group of devs sits around a table and sets out to design a distant prequel. They have previous lore to work with, but they also have to create a totally original world. Of course it's not going to have been planned out from day one, especially since Tactics was a spinoff and XII is a mainline entry sharing its world made ten or so odd years later.

Right. But we can't deny the first impression upon learning such diversity of life and society won't be expanded upon because of lore reasons in another game is rather dour.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Thanks for all the posts about the catalysm influencing the state and setting of FFT.

I played FFT something like 10 years ago so I wouldn't be able to remember all the lore involved.

I'm planning to do a replay of FFT and maybe pick up on revenant wings after I'm done with FFXII.

Also never played Vagrant Story, I'll need to play that also.

Ivalice is an amazing world to get immersed into. Someone should make a big portrait or timeline outlining all the events in the Ivalice world and history and how it all connects.

There's tons of cool little facts and such about Ivalice in the bestiary. One of the best touches in this game is sitting through and reading through the entries.

 

[Zakkath]

When

Spoiler

Reddas

teams up with you, is that close to the end game? I can’t remember much from when I played it on PS2.

You still have a few hours to go.

 

[Pinko Marx]

Right. But we can't deny the first impression upon learning such diversity of life and society won't be expanded upon because of lore reasons in another game is rather dour.

There's no lore reason that you can't get more of the races. All we know is that they eventually die out, but that doesn't rule out everything BEFORE. In XII Ivalice is in a golden age, but how long has it lasted, how did we get here, what was life like before said golden age, what about early Ivalice history?
There's a lot there. The FFTA games are good example.

 

[Maledict]

There's no lore reason that you can't get more of the races. All we know is that they eventually die out, but that doesn't rule out everything BEFORE. In XII Ivalice is in a golden age, but how long has it lasted, how did we get here, what was life like before said golden age, what about early Ivalice history?
There's a lot there. The FFTA games are good example.

That's not it works for most people. The fact that everything we do and all the characters and setting we like just gets blown to crap and every other race goes extinct puts a huge downer on everything.

Have to say, it also feels like a really stupid move creatively. Replace a unique and interesting setting, with multiple races and an atmosphere and aesthetic we dont often see in games, with an unbelievably stereotypical medieval fantasy world with a corrupt church and only humans?

It's a massive step down really.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Right. But we can't deny the first impression upon learning such diversity of life and society won't be expanded upon because of lore reasons in another game is rather dour.

It is, absolutely. Especially considering the implied fact that

Spoiler

Ashe and Vayne denying the Occuria, and Ashe and co. unleashing the "Espers" (who are, in fact, demons who rebelled against their gods) leads to so much misery in the future.

From an out of universe perspective, I really hope they do revisit this world in the future.

One interesting tidbit: While it's never stated where the Ivalice of FFT lies in comparison to the kingdoms and continents introduced in XII, it's worth noting that "Ordallia" lies to the east of the known world of Tactics, and that the climate grows more temperate and desert-like as you go further east. In XII, Ordallia is where Rozarria is located, and the Galtean Peninsula where most of the game takes place, which is connected to Ordallia in the west, is likewise a desert climate.

 

[Pinko Marx]

That's not it works for most people. The fact that everything we do and all the characters and setting we like just gets blown to crap and every other race goes extinct puts a huge downer on everything.

Have to say, it also feels like a really stupid move creatively. Replace a unique and interesting setting, with multiple races and an atmosphere and aesthetic we dont often see in games, with an unbelievably stereotypical medieval fantasy world with a corrupt church and only humans?

It's a massive step down really.

I disagree but you're entitled to your opinion fam.

 

[Tomeru]

This game is like a fucking painting. Beautiful.

Is there a list of things I shouldn't miss? Especially if I'm going for plat (or not).