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[ezekial45]

i disagree. the gameplay is mothereffin awesome.

Don't get me wrong, i really dig the battle system. I like the role aspect and the crystarium as well. Everything outside that is lacking. Case in point, the town of Nautilus,

Spoiler

which was a complete disappointment. A carnival type town were you can't do or interactive with anything outside of story or event specific stuff is bizarre. Why couldn't you do any mini-games? Why cann't you explore?

Thats what bugs me about this game. I'm still enjoying it, i can't wait to go back, but my feelings regarding gameplay stands. The battle system aren't the only thing that FF is known for.

 

[RockmanWhore]

Being "in control" is such a fundamental component to any and all videogames.

I understand your argument, but we're talking about RPGs here. It's one thing when you're playing a fighting game with crazy shortcut that do the huge combos with a single button press, or playing a FPS with a huge auto-aim. It's an RPG, the key to play well isn't to press the buttons skillfully, avoiding the magic menus to get to the item menu. It's all about the strategy, the customization, the deepness and modularity of the system. For me RPG are some kind of non gameplay games, just like point & click or digital novels. Every games don't have to be about having fast reflex or manipulating stuff.

I think it's much better when things are automated, spells like shell or protect are near useless in the older FF games, what is the interest of wasting a turn and tons of time messing in the menus looking for a specific spell, when you can launch a powerful spell or just attack anyway. I XII and XIII these spells are finally useful and really enhance the possibilities.

 

[DY_nasty]

Vanille makes the SO4 cast look extremely bad. But I like Vanille now. Although she needs to laugh less. A LOT less.

Vanille would be the best character in SO4 by a long shot. She could be given a full 10 minute monologue every 2 hours and it would be a massive improvement over everything character/story related. (Beat SO4, Tri-Ace should send me a handwritten thank you letter)

 

[LowParry]

Spoiler

which was a complete disappointment. A carnival type town were you can't do or interactive with anything outside of story or event specific stuff is bizarre. Why couldn't you do any mini-games? Why can you explore?

Man. That whole scene was such a disappointment. I was hoping for some old school Gold Saucer moments of kicking sheep, chocobo races and snow boarding downhill Vanille style. The ending of that all was pretty damn good though of how things unfolded.

 

[MrOctober]

Getting a little tired of those Eidolon trial and error fights...Saszh one again is the same thing...off for the night,i;ll try it again tomorrow,maybe i`ll bring the ATB down to the slowest speed,the Synergist ability when you open up the choices there`s like 8 in there,by the time you find the one you want you waste precious time,I hate the Sentinel and Saboteur shifts,game is getting a little too hard for my patience.Chapter 8 by the way.

They aren't trial and error if you're using Libra. I'm bolding the next part for anyone else that is having trouble with this.

Libra is your best friend. Use it and use it a ton. If you are having a problem with something Libra more than likely has the answer for you.

 

[sonitii]

Love the battle system. It's really fun with some epic boss battles. Love the tanking, DPS, healers aspects and the on-the-fly classes changes. However, like many others, I wished that they let you prioritize certain spells/abilities for your AI controlled party. I like to buff up my party with Synergist and it would be so much better to prioritize certain buffs rather than wait for the AI to take forever to cast what you want. Kind of annoying especially later in the game when you have lot more buff/debuff spells in your repertoire.

 

[palpabl_purpura]

Bayonetta doesn't suck. Best gameplay in an action game EVER.

Action game of this generation. Period.

 

[ElFly]

People are overreacting.

AI didn't bother me in Dragon Warrior IV on the NES, and in this game you are in much more control.

 

[scotcheggz]

Whilst I do agree about the criticism of auto-battle that keeps cropping up, why don't you just not use it? It might not be the most effecient always, but it does help to give back a sembelance of control and flicking through menus and queuing up actions as well as paradigm switching makes it quite frantic, I think it's a pretty good battle system.

What does annoy me is the lack of control you have over the characters spacing. If a mob casts a -ga spell, don't stand next to the sentinal eh? If a mob is smashing everything directly infront of it, DD get out back please... I've not seen anyone else comment about this issue, but sometimes it can really be a pain. I wonder if it's just my history in MMO (FFXI) that makes me irked about this or if I'm just doing something wrong. :lol

I think I'm almost done with chapter 11, loved the way it opened up and the missions were great, I was really clamouring for that. I can go back to the lovely big field again right? I hear there is a ton more mission to be doing there?

 

[Crash Station]

I hear it has characters even I wouldn't start a defense force for.

You'd be right. Lymle is such a bad character in every way that she actually broke my sanity. There will NEVER be a character worse than her. If anyone is even capable of creating one, they shouldn't only be put in a straight jacket but also given some kind of award.

This is coming from the same guy that defended Emil from Tales of Symphonia 2 btw.

 

[DY_nasty]

Libra is just necessity. I don't even think its possible to beat the game without it... Its probably right behind Haste as the most important ability in the game. (Both are more important than Summons imo). In Chapter 11,

Spoiler

has anyone killed those giant turtle/dinosaur things? I want to kill one so bad but omfg they own me. Right now my team is Fang/Vanille/Sazh and I'm thinking that one healer just isn't going to cut it.

 

[Llyranor]

You'd be right. Lymle is such a bad character in every way that she actually broke my sanity. There will NEVER be a character worse than her. If anyone is even capable of creating one, they shouldn't only be put in a straight jacket but also given some kind of award.

I can think of 3 just off the top of my head. All from SO4.

 

[rainer516]

You know what really gets me about this game? It's the intensity of the emotion that they manage to convey using the character models and their facial expressions. Take for example the

Spoiler

first time Barthandelus reveals himself at the climax of Chapter 9, the look on the characters faces, the amount of despair.

It's just staggering how far technology has come along in Final Fantasy since the 60 or so frames limited to each sprite back in FF6. It even beats out such "emotion heavy drama" tried by Heavy Rain.

 

[Magnus]

I think it's much better when things are automated, spells like shell or protect are near useless in the older FF games, what is the interest of wasting a turn and tons of time messing in the menus looking for a specific spell, when you can launch a powerful spell or just attack anyway. I XII and XIII these spells are finally useless and really enhance the possibilities.

I think you meant useful at the end there, right?

And yeah, I agree that XII elevated the buff spells in Final Fantasy in a major way. Gambits/pre-planned, *user-constructed* combat routines and priorities allowed you to decide to have those buffs up and ready without having to waste time doing it every battle. XIII continues that tradition, but takes the concepts of prioritization and choice away. I can't make any decisions other than, "I want buffs". The game takes that command, and gives me a Synergist that does whatever the fuck they please. Often it's a good outcome, more often it's an outcome that isn't ideal but doesn't hurt me, and sometimes, it hinders me. This ain't satisfactory from a series that afforded me increased control in the past.

People are overreacting.

AI didn't bother me in Dragon Warrior IV on the NES, and in this game you are in much more control.

I can't disagree more; losing control of one's characters for the first time in a series is a paramount concern for a video game. What should I react more strongly about than that?

You know what really gets me about this game? It's the intensity of the emotion that they manage to convey using the character models and their facial expressions

I agree 100% -- there was a scene somewhere in Chapter 7 where Lightning's eyes widened as she reacted to something Fang said, I think. She was unbelievably human in her reaction. I said "woah" out loud.

That's a strong enough impetus for me to play right now; these characters are strangely growing on me, despite my hate for a couple of them, and even in the midst of some questionable storytelling, they get some amazing moments to express themselves with all the visuals have to offer.

 

[MrOctober]

Libra is just necessity. I don't even think its possible to beat the game without it... Its probably right behind Haste as the most important ability in the game. (Both are more important than Summons imo). In Chapter 11,

Spoiler

has anyone killed those giant turtle/dinosaur things? I want to kill one so bad but omfg they own me. Right now my team is Fang/Vanille/Sazh and I'm thinking that one healer just isn't going to cut it.

You are no where near strong enough to take those on yet. You won't be for a while.

 

[LowParry]

Auto-battle is great for finding a weakness without having to use Libra. After that it's manual inputs for the higher use of magic if your lead is Ravage. Having more control of magic is a whole lot better in the long run then letting a system auto for you. 5 star ratings rock out in Gran Pulse.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Very much liking the battle system too. I do agree that calling it "strategic" is giving it a bit too much credit, but what I think it does well, and I don't think can be argued, is it gives the battles a very palpable flow and pacing. You pull back...buff/heal/sab...wait until you're good and ready...then gogogogogo. Mix in various shades in between to maintain chains while healing incase the badguys aren't fully staggered yet.

It's fun. It gives the battles a very clear pacing that the rest of the game unfortunately seems to lack so far.

 

[Cep]

Vanille would be the best character in SO4 by a long shot. She could be given a full 10 minute monologue every 2 hours and it would be a massive improvement over everything character/story related. (Beat SO4, Tri-Ace should send me a handwritten thank you letter)

Not good enough.

I need them to replace my eyes and ears, they have lost their innocence and are forever violated. I need a new set.

Spoiler

And I did not even get very far. I fear what would have happened had I actually beaten it.

 

[Crash Station]

I can think of 3 just off the top of my head. All from SO4.

Like I said, she broke my sanity. Edge, Meracle, Sarah, etc; hearing them talk was a breath of fresh air after "KAY" every goddamn minute.

 

[DY_nasty]

What does annoy me is the lack of control you have over the characters spacing. If a mob casts a -ga spell, don't stand next to the sentinal eh? If a mob is smashing everything directly infront of it, DD get out back please... I've not seen anyone else comment about this issue, but sometimes it can really be a pain. I wonder if it's just my history in MMO (FFXI) that makes me irked about this or if I'm just doing something wrong. :lol

This bothers me too. As soon as I use Provoke or Challenge as a Sentinel, it should immediately signal the rest of my party to get the hell away from me. I don't mind it when my party sort of clusters together when I go to Com/rav/rav, but when I take a defensive paradigm I wish they'd move a little smarter.

 

[dreamer3kx]

I thought Eidolons were bad ass, why every time I summon one they get their ass kicked pretty good, is it better to summon while fighting a single foe, say a boss or harder enemy, also does it matter which point in time to activate gestalt mode?

 

[Llyranor]

I think one quick solution to the auto-battle complaints would be (this could be possibly on top of gambits - and could also apply to AI or to the entire party at once) would be preset commands within a paradigm.

So, rather than choosing individual commands one at a time, you open up the menu and choose from one of your preset ones. Just having a few available would allow for a lot more control, without necessarily compromising efficiency, and would add an extra layer of depth to the paradigms.

Like I said, she broke my sanity. Edge, Meracle, Sarah, etc; hearing them talk was a breath of fresh air after "KAY" every goddamn minute.

Hey, you just mentioned the 3 characters that are worse than Lym!

 

[LowParry]

I thought Eidolons were bad ass, why every time I summon one they get there ass kicked pretty good, is it better to summon while fighting a single foe, say a boss or harder enemy, also does it matter which point in time to activate gestalt mode?

I use Eidolons as a group killer utility with their final attack.

 

[BocoDragon]

I must confess something. My love of XII's battle system is clearly fueling my XIII-rage, and honestly, I'm deeply pissed that so many people ragged on XII's (brilliant) combat system with the complaint, "It just plays itself, I don't want the AI to control my characters" (remember Penny Arcade's strip?) and now, XIII is getting a free pass despite actually committing this gameplay sin, when XII never committed it in the first place if you even casually understood how gambits worked.

I loved XII's system too.

But the fact that you don't have direct control over AI actions, instead trusting certain pre-set AI roles, means that the gameplay now consists of choosing your strategic role, rather than choosing the direct actions of your characters (which you are dealing with even in XII's gambits). XIII is played from a high macro level of overall strategies rather than direct actions. You are still choosing options in a menu, but because you aren't bothered with the details they can speed up the pace of battles significantly. It still gives you control over some aspects of the battle, it's just control from a different level than we have been used to. My view is that XIII is its own thing. Gambits would make this an entirely different type of game.

 

[DY_nasty]

Like I said, she broke my sanity. Edge, Meracle, Sarah, etc; hearing them talk was a breath of fresh air after "KAY" every goddamn minute.

No, that damned cat-girl. She was like 13. Whenever someone walked into my dorm room and saw her on the screen I was overwhelmed with shame. Why would they put a little cat-preteen in a thong like that? Why would they make her the horniest character on the ship? Why?

 

[MrOctober]

I thought Eidolons were bad ass, why every time I summon one they get there ass kicked pretty good, is it better to summon while fighting a single foe, say a boss or harder enemy, also does it matter which point in time to activate gestalt mode?

You get more Gestalt points or whatever if you help your Eidolon fight until just before the purple bar goes away. Try and go for it at the very last possible minute so your Eidolon will A) do a ton of damage while it's out in the open and then B) do way more damage once you're on him since you'll have more moves available.


Also summons are best used in a fight where you're about to die since after they leave they bring everyone back to full health.

 

[firehawk12]

Ugh, grinded for tiaras for an hour and all I have to show for it are lots of bomb cores.

There's a sentence I never thought I'd use.

 

[ElFly]

I think you meant useful at the end there, right?

I can't disagree more; losing control of one's characters for the first time in a series is a paramount concern for a video game. What should I react more strongly about than that?

Final Fantasy 7 had sections where you controlled Cloud and Sephiroth controlled himself.

It was even worse because whatever you did Sephiroth would destroy everything.

 

[DualShadow]

Do we gain more TP as we progress? Having only the starting

Spoiler

5

TP's is annoying. I would also like to use the other party members summons

 

[~Kinggi~]

I have to say, im on chapter 7 or 8 now and the game is starting to grate on me. At first i was really impressed by the visuals and game world, but now it just feels like im trudging along from one battle to the next. Battles also take longer than they should sometimes, and that can get annoying. Im pretty sure im playing the game correctly, since i havent died much.

This is definitely a game that would have benefited a whole lot from a great story. The game engine that they built is very impressive in keeping the pace brisk. Transitions to battles are short and there arent a lot of loading between areas and cutscenes. If i actually cared about the characters and story i would probably find this a riveting experience. But the story sucks, and the dialog sucks, and that's a gigantic "oh shit!" for every writer involved on this game.

With a GOW 3 and Metro 2033 coming out tomorrow, i have a good feeling im gonna stop playing this game 14 hours in and possibly not return.

I would love to see some western talent be given the Japanese artists and budgets they lavish on these things.

 

[Magnus]

I loved XII's system too.

But the fact that you don't have direct control over AI actions, instead of trusting certain pre-set AI roles, means that the gameplay now consists of choosing your strategic role, rather than choosing the direct actions of your characters (which you are dealing with even in XII's gambits). XIII is played from a high macro level of overall strategies rather than direct actions. You are still choosing options in a menu, but because you aren't bothered with the details they can speed up the pace of battles significantly. It still gives you control over some aspects of the battle, it's just control from a different level than we have been used to. My view is that XIII is its own thing. Gambits would make this an entirely different type of game.

I hear what you're saying. I think "choosing your strategic role, rather than choosing the direct actions of your characters" and "XIII is played from a high macro level of overall strategies rather than direct actions" are polite ways of saying, "you have less control." I get to choose to bring out my "buff class" and then cross my fingers and hope for the best. That can be exciting, in a bizarre way. That's the same kind of suspense generated as in that old argument where people were defending Resident Evil 1 and Silent Hill 1's awful controls by saying "it adds to the suspense!" It certainly did add to the suspense, but by way of lacking control, by disconnecting the player from their character, or weakening the connection somehow. Being out of control, or being offered less control, shouldn't be acceptable ways to exhilarate a player or expound on suspense and speed in a gameplay system in my opinion.

 

[mjemirzian]

Things like being able to set gambit-like priorities for your AI-controlled (yes, AI-controlled) characters, being able to switch leaders on the fly, and a massive alteration in pacing

You complain about auto-battle then don't suggest that they get rid of it or make it less useful for the leader. Did that just slip your mind?

If you don't like auto-battle, don't use it. We already know the scoring system is worthless because of grinding, auto-battle, shrouds, etc. This game is like every other traditional RPG - if you want a challenge, make it yourself.

By the way it sounds like you might agree with my review of the game here.

I'm currently working on a challenge run that is proving to make the first couple chapters more entertaining.

 

[_Xenon_]

You are no where near strong enough to take those on yet. You won't be for a while.

Is it even possible to kill it? That thing can one hit KO the whole party even with everybody buff'ed. I doubt sentinel would work for that thing because it always attacks the whole party.

 

[Lightning]

Fang REALLY cares about Vanille. I don't think there is anything she wouldn't do to protect Vanille.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

I must confess something. My love of XII's battle system is clearly fueling my XIII-rage, and honestly, I'm deeply pissed that so many people ragged on XII's (brilliant) combat system with the complaint, "It just plays itself, I don't want the AI to control my characters" (remember Penny Arcade's strip?) and now, XIII is getting a free pass despite actually committing this gameplay sin, when XII never committed it in the first place if you even casually understood how gambits worked.

My beef with 12 was that I was programming AI. I figured that is why most people didn't like it. Programming is the job of a developer, and it is lazy to say, "I can't tell what you want, so do it yourself." Maybe other people felt differently. The 'fun' of programming AI is so that you can give your creation to someone else and have it work just like they want it to. That is what XIII gives to me.

 

[Magnus]

You complain about auto-battle then don't suggest that they get rid of it or make it less useful for the leader. Did that just slip your mind?

If you don't like auto-battle, don't use it. We already know the scoring system is worthless because of grinding, auto-battle, shrouds, etc. This game is like every other traditional RPG - if you want a challenge, make it yourself.

Auto-battle has its place. So does a gambit that looks like this: "Attack -> Nearest Enemy". I would elect to keep that gambit on (i.e. use Auto-battle) until the need arises (hopefully often enough) for me to change strategies in order to survive. Until I need to have my leader do something else to keep the team going. In nearly every battle so far, that need hasn't existed. The proper thing to do to play the game as well as possible, has been to hit auto-battle. Playing without it under these circumstances would be, as you said, making your own challenge; intentionally crippling yourself. That's a little screwed up.

Auto-battle is the no-fail gambit for 90% of battles. If XII handed you a gambit at the start of the game that worked as prevalently as Auto-battle does, I'd be trashing that game to high heaven.

Anyway, my complaints about it pale vastly in comparison to the big elephant in the room, lack of control over your 1 or 2 partners. I would bathe in Auto-Battle's glorious waters and have nasty animal sex with it in return for being given back control of the other two.

 

[LowParry]

Fang REALLY cares about Vanille. I don't think there is anything she wouldn't do to protect Vanille.

BFF's yo.

 

[Styles]

Fang's voice is sexy during battle. Unlike Vanille's sex groans.

 

[Magnus]

My beef with 12 was that I was programming AI. I figured that is why most people didn't like it. Programming is the job of a developer, and it is lazy to say, "I can't tell what you want, so do it yourself." Maybe other people felt differently. The 'fun' of programming AI is so that you can give your creation to someone else and have it work just like they want it to. That is what XIII gives to me.

There's a major issue here that touches the core of my argument. Yeah, you're programming your characters. But it's you, the player, who's doing that. When gambits achieved their desired amazing effects in battle, you can know that you set that shit up right. You anticipated, you interrupted where needed, you planned, you succeeded. In XIII, I feel like I've had Square make my gambits for me. Imagine XII with pre-manufactured gambits for nearly all of your characters, no matter how efficient. Man, no one would have played it. I would have used the disc as a coaster, taken a fat shit on it afterward and thrown it out my window. :lol This is bizarrely what 2/3 of XIII's combat is. It's sexy, fast-paced, visually glorious....Square gambits. I mean, they're fun to watch, but I want to play.

edit- out for a bit to play the game lol ), forge toward glorious Chapter

Spoiler

11

and enjoy this strange little brainchild of Square Enix. I'm sure I'll have a host of objections to respond to whenever I return to the thread.

I love you all.

 

[Chamber]

Man, for as much trouble as it sometimes is to get these Eidolons, they don't slay nearly the amount of ass they should.

 

[WYWY]

I thought Eidolons were bad ass, why every time I summon one they get their ass kicked pretty good, is it better to summon while fighting a single foe, say a boss or harder enemy, also does it matter which point in time to activate gestalt mode?

Their usefulness varies between 'strategic' to 'useless', depending on the gamer's gaming style.

Their power is tied to the characters' current power. So if characters are under-leveled against a foe, summons won't help.

We all agree that summons are great for rescuing the party in a bad condition, since all characters are healed after the summon. But beyond that.... well the characteristics I noticed so far are:

- They chain quite fast.
- Their drive gauge builds up rapidly if enemy is in break status.
- Invincible in gestalt mode. But... the enemy comes out of break status if you engage gestalt mode! (need confirmation but looks like it) - Unless you break the enemy in gestalt mode itself.
- They won't attack if the summoner is in bad condition, instead casting heal spells.

My uses so far are:
* Against bosses that suddenly become more aggressive when their HP runs low. Lets you bash off some more HP before coming back with all characters recovered.

* When a boss is going to break like at 80%, call a summon to do the break. The drive gauge will go full easily when the enemy is broken. When the break gauge is about to wear off or the summon's time is coming up, activate drive mode to get the bonus wallops on the enemy.

 

[7Th]

Fang's voice is sexy during battle. Unlike Vanille's sex groans.

They're both equally bad. As much as I like them, silly Japanese battle cries don't really work in English.

BFF's yo.

Oh you.

 

[BocoDragon]

I hear what you're saying. I think "choosing your strategic role, rather than choosing the direct actions of your characters" and "XIII is played from a high macro level of overall strategies rather than direct actions" are polite ways of saying, "you have less control." I get to choose to bring out my "buff class" and then cross my fingers and hope for the best. That can be exciting, in a bizarre way. That's the same kind of suspense generated as in that old argument where people were defending Resident Evil 1 and Silent Hill 1's awful controls by saying "it adds to the suspense!" Being out of control, or being offered less control, shouldn't be a way to expedite suspense, speed or add exhilaration to a gameplay system, in my opinion.

I don't quite see it that way. While old games gave you "fight", "magic", "blitz" or whatever, XIII reassigns some things to AI, and gives you new options "switch optima change", "auto-battle", "specific action"... in either case you are selecting options based on the battle circumstances. Now you aren't responding to specific situations, more that you are switching your strategy depending on the changing tide of battle.

I think bringing the battles to this level of focus and using AI definitely makes it seem simpler at first. However, the simplicity lets them speed up the battles. Your choices make for a more "arcade" experience in that you have to react quickly because the tide of battle changes so suddenly... even with AI, this game still demands fast responses of the player, it's just a different type of response than in older FFs.

 

[DualShadow]

Fang REALLY cares about Vanille. I don't think there is anything she wouldn't do to protect Vanille.

If i hadn't just got to where i am in the game Chapter

Spoiler

7

i would find this a bit spoilerish :|

 

[MrOctober]

Is it even possible to kill it? That thing can one hit KO the whole party even with everybody buff'ed. I doubt sentinel would work for that thing because it always attacks the whole party.

In chapter 11 no. It fucks you up right away. After you do some serious leveling you can. It's never easy though.

 

[K' Dash]

What is the point of no return in chapter 11? I'm inside

Spoiler

Taejins Tower

and I want to do all the hunts before I move on to chapter 12.

 

[leng jai]

Whats up with Sazh's Eidolon fight? Everytime I get it to about 90% it just one shot kills me. Happened about 5 times in a row :/

 

[LiK]

Whats up with Sazh's Eidolon fight? Everytime I get it to about 90% it just one shot kills me. Happened about 5 times in a row :/

really? i never died from that fight. kept losing cuz of the damn doom timer.

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

Even Vanille - freaking Vanille - is better than all the SO4 cast combined. Even her VA is better than SO4's cast combined. Her freaking VA. SO4 would have been a much better game if Vanille was the VA for all the characters.

So what you're saying is that Vanille's VA is better than Serah's VA.

 

[Diablos]

Spoiler

Nautilus

is soooooo cool.