BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
They're on pulse too!.. It's funny your characters comment on them as u walk by.Dra-Q said:
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Final Fantasy XIII |OT|
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
- Status
dustytruly
Member
hah that's is what i was thinking...ElFly said:
he's either emo or super lame
i like him in my party... and he's a good character... my least favorite character is snow because the things he says are soooo stupid but he reminds me of people i know in real life who are like "we gotta fight... but i dunno why because it's just the manly thing to say and do" i'm like fuuuuu get a fucking brain
RPGCrazied
Member
some of these boss are so hard, you want to exchange the game. lol
literally this is the hardest FF to date.. alteast for me
literally this is the hardest FF to date.. alteast for me
Alex
Member
Being a child is no catch-all for complaints when you're presented with a subplot as bad as his plight was early on, ugh. There are plenty of games with interesting and justified child characters that don't need to sink to those depths, because those depths made no sense.
Still he's not so terrible, just that forced subplot he had which wasn't even a bad talking point except the writers didn't know when to give up and insisted on creating artificial drama when the typical drama from the event would've been enough. I'd rather have a dazed and confused child than a walking blame gun.
I use him in my primary party and liked him well enough, but the jump from unlikable douchebag to pleasant guy on a complete dime is a bit silly and kind of forced development. Seems to be cropping up more and more in RPGs lately. "Luke syndrome"
Oh it's EASILY the hardest, even bringing in the old ones, any remakes, etc (FFIV DS has the most exaggerated difficulty ever, game has like two hard spots and is a complete breeze after). And that's what's awesome, it's fantastic to have a combat engine put the pressure on you. Very rare in a lot of RPGs lately, sadly.
Still he's not so terrible, just that forced subplot he had which wasn't even a bad talking point except the writers didn't know when to give up and insisted on creating artificial drama when the typical drama from the event would've been enough. I'd rather have a dazed and confused child than a walking blame gun.
I use him in my primary party and liked him well enough, but the jump from unlikable douchebag to pleasant guy on a complete dime is a bit silly and kind of forced development. Seems to be cropping up more and more in RPGs lately. "Luke syndrome"
Oh it's EASILY the hardest, even bringing in the old ones, any remakes, etc (FFIV DS has the most exaggerated difficulty ever, game has like two hard spots and is a complete breeze after). And that's what's awesome, it's fantastic to have a combat engine put the pressure on you. Very rare in a lot of RPGs lately, sadly.
KZObsessed
Member
OMG
eat ma dick!!!!!!!!!! VICTORY! Took everything I had to beat him. Med/Sen/Med during his annihilation phase and Com/Com/Med while in ariel attack mode. Was within an inch of death twice during the battle and didn't think I'd make it but BAM. You ma bitch. Epic.
Proud Clad v2
Let's not get too crazy here. If we're talking about the same Luke from Abyss, he's on a different tier from Hope when it comes to in-game douchebags.Alex said:
I agree about Hope's growth being overblown, though. It's like in chapter 7 when you have this great scene with Snow and Hope, and then it's ruined by
lots of dialogue and a cheesy reunion scene with his father. They should just have left it with Snow carrying Hope to safety on his back, broken ribs and all, and left out the sappy dialogue. But this is Final Fantasy.
And Vanille's voice acting is definitely worse early on. I'm beginning to think it was on purpose, since as she says,
she was playing dumb early on.
Alex said:
Funny you call it Luke Syndrome when Luke was actually pretty justified in his personality change. Being manipulated by your hero/mentor into killing thousands and finding out you are a clone and THEN finding out that your friends hate you does tend to have a humbling effect on an individual (to the point where it completely removes your spine).
Properly named or not, it is one of the more annoying phenomena when it comes to characters.
marathonfool
Member
I found that SAB, SEN, and SYN pretty much make any boss a cakewalk. I was able to beat the game fairly easily with un-upgraded weapons and less than max levels.
Most of the later enemies can be taken down between 1-2 minutes. I originally thought the game was going to get grind heavy, but it turns out you have all the necessary components, weapons, and accessories if you just play the game.
I have saves at every chapter and before every major boss fight. I think I'll tinker with some strategies and different teams.
Most of the later enemies can be taken down between 1-2 minutes. I originally thought the game was going to get grind heavy, but it turns out you have all the necessary components, weapons, and accessories if you just play the game.
I have saves at every chapter and before every major boss fight. I think I'll tinker with some strategies and different teams.
Guys, if you're all finished and ready to discuss story, have at it in the spoilers thread, since apparently people here are super-sensitive:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382120
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=382120
Fimbulvetr
Member
Cep said:
This.
Kinda off topic, but I'm really curious how RPG's are gonna be handled from here on, especially Sakaguchis's.
Kudos to SE for actually having the balls to do 180° turn with FXIII, I really like it, when you reach chapter 11 you start to realize how good SE planned all the game.
Damn, they still got it.
Kudos to SE for actually having the balls to do 180° turn with FXIII, I really like it, when you reach chapter 11 you start to realize how good SE planned all the game.
Damn, they still got it.
gutterboy44
Member
I read in another forum that if you beat the game with tier 2 weapons or higher it makes 5 staring the missions harder because of shorter time allotment. Has any one here confirmed leaving your weapons on tier 1 during first play through? A platinum seems ridic at first, but I figure I could just do some grinding from time to time while watching a TV show and eventually get it in a few months.
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
DY_nasty said:
SAB can deal stagger bar damage?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
FTWer said:
Yeah, their debuffs add to the bar.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Hope's mom is a milf.
Also, did the game ever address
Also, did the game ever address
What happened to his dad after he got party vanned?
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
Cep said:
Luke.... Skywalker?
marathonfool
Member
FTWer said:
Playing as SAB is great. You can build the stagger bar and debuff at the same time. You can even build the stagger bar even if the enemy is immune to the status ailment. I can spam a boss to half stagger as SAB, while the SEN draws all the attention and the SYN buffs.
edgefusion
Member
Just got my growth egg, yay it's grinding time then down with an Adamantoise!
Fimbulvetr
Member
Lost Fragment said:
Did you see how the game treated the other minor characters after they became insignificant?
I'm surprised he isn't dead.
I'm surprised he isn't dead.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
painey said:
Yeah, I did that too. It's tragic that you can't change your paradigms in battle. :lol
Just when I thought the game would be a linear dungeon romp, I get Chapter 11 and the game WOWS me. Super open area, flourishing enemies, lots of enemies I can't possibly defeat yet, monster hunts, treasure everywhere...
It's like a cross between the Calm Lands and FFXII. It's awesome. Best thing in an FF.
It's like a cross between the Calm Lands and FFXII. It's awesome. Best thing in an FF.
Cep said:
Or rather, the game just pushes everything actually going on with the characters under the carpet and only shows the generic JRPG fluff in the game itself.
I think Hope's actual character was pretty irrelevant, myself... his real purpose was to serve as some sort of accessory for Lightning and Snow.
marathonfool
Member
7Th said:
I enjoyed Lightning and Hope's relationship myself. I think the game did a great job of building their bond.
Might as well do this in a "stream of consciousness" kind of way, since it'll be the only way I can properly convey how I feel about this game after completion. I'll break it down into two big elements: story and gameplay. I actually loved the music in XIII, and it would have been the first time I really found an FF soundtrack mostly memorable since FF8 (I need to replay FF9 period, but I definitely was not a big fan of 10, 11, or 12's soundtrack). And the graphics are pretty, especially coming from some one playing the 360 version.
Story - The story structure is definitely a little bit... different from typical JRPG tropes. One advantage that I can give 13's story is that it manages to make the atmosphere tense throughout for good reasons. Sure, there is no real opportunity to explore towns and what-not, but would that really work when these people are the world's biggest fugitives? Unfortunately, that choice of establishing an in-universe sense of realism and plausibility directly clash with the absurdities expected in RPG design. With the exception of Pulse, the story line still keeps moving and it still kept me motivated to see what would come next, no matter how absurd it actually was. The pace definitely starts to sputter during the last quarter.
Although, that's just talking about the plot's structure. What about the characters themselves? I found that at least half of the cast was likable in my tastes (Lightning, Sazh, Hope, and sometimes Fang). Moreover, I felt that this game really established the divisive line between likable and developed. For instance, I find Snow and Vanille irritating for many, many, many reasons, but I cannot say that they were not developed characters (
). I think Parish brought this up in his review, but this is one of the few RPG parties that really make sense, especially since they have problems staying together from the get go and you get the impression that each have their own separate motivations for doing stuff. When they do come together, I feel a group cohesiveness that has only really been done better in Persona 4. Even towards the end of the story, I still feel as if the individual group members still matter in the grand scheme of things (Unlike say... FF12, where late in the story, most of the party just drop out of even basic conversations). Too bad the game hates minor characters
.
But... the villains... Hoo boy, the villains. I would say that the antagonists in this game are among the worst in the entire FF franchise.
. Ugh, this shit is bananas. The only one that had any real potential was Yaag Rosch, in part due to how I like the Inspector Javert types.
But it was not to be, and the antagonists were mostly throw-away. This really hurts the plot due to how a good opposing force for the protagonists can make even the most bare-bones story more fun to follow.
In all, I was interested in the story, but I cannot really say that it was especially well made. But the tension by the swiftly moving chain of events is hurt by some really lackluster antagonists. Sure, you have developed protagonists, but that is really only one side of the coin. Without the other, the party seems more compelled by coincidences and unfortunate events as opposed to an active force or struggle. With that said, it still goes beyond almost every JRPG released this generation, for better or for worse. In the other JRPGs, I felt they usually missed the mark on everything (plot, characters, pacing, etc).
Gameplay - Here we go, a Frankenstein's Monster-esque combination of X-2, X, and XII's gameplay elements. I'll get the entire map issue out of the way first. For the first part of the game, I wasn't really bothered by the linear style of the dungeons. The dungeons might have been rather linear, but they had some really good scenery, and were big enough but did not drag on for too long. Unfortunately, the late game examples have the deadly combination of insanely long dungeons (usually with the same music going through the map and the battles) and absolutely vile enemy placements ("Let's place three of these type of enemies together where taking out one of them is an ordeal! Oh, and let's place them in a narrow hallway where there is virtually no way you're getting around them without an item"). Of course,
But I'm not saying that one large area can excuse the precedent set by the rest of the game. I just didn't like how the designers didn't really have brevity in mind when creating the late-game dungeons.
I also do like the Paradigm system with some reservations (mostly pertaining to the Crystarium "Sphere Grid-Lite" style of level progression). I mean, when you get down to it, you're switching through a combination of three job classes for your three main characters. But I did appreciate how these combination really did affect how smoothly or not the battles unfolded. For instance, you could go into a battle with three magic dealers or three attackers, but it might be better to have a buff/debuff party or to use a tank to take all of the attacks while the other two members do something else. Sure, people complain that it lends itself to "Press buttons, switch to healing Paradigm when low on HP, switch back," but the mid-game and on requires much more attention concerning how and when to implement certain Paradigm combinations, especially when the difficulty is well above a far amount of non-Megami Tensei RPGs. Plus, the more FF games that actually make status and debuff spells worth a damn, the better. In regards to differing roles, the vanilla version of 12 had an issue where eventually each of the characters became carbon copies of each-other, but I felt FFXIII narrowly avoids this by at least having roles that the members would suit better than others even in the post-game. Unfortunately, when considering that there are only six roles, the end of the road becomes visible pretty quickly. That is why I would wish that SE would really blow the lid off of the Paradigm system with more Job classes and probably a game mechanic built around canceling enemies out of attacks in a more indepth mechanic than the stagger bar and hitting the enemy out of some attacks (The Grandia series have always been excellent in this regard, and it is one of the closest things to FFXIII's gameplay when taking out the Paradigm switching system).
Stuff pertaining to game balance was typically the gameplay stuff I was not a big fan of. What I did like was that even party members outside of battle get exp/cp, which is something that avoids a lot of frustrated encounters, especially for a game that switches party members in and out without abandon. Sure, the game takes a Chrono Cross-esque approach of it being a bit hard to become underleveled or overleveled, but when considering that you do not get good rewards for anything but non-Mission battles, it makes a lot of the fights seem trivial. In the last section of the game, the difficulty becomes "do or die," and you'll seriously start to think twice on whether it is even worth it to go through these long battles for virtually little-to-no reward. The way Gil IS handled is quite weird, as you have a whole bunch of items that you would need a guide to figure out what is sellable and what is actually important for the weapon crafting. Unfortunately, I still have yet to pour a gil into my weapons, so I can't really speak on how effect or not it is.
In all, I felt FFXIII was a strange beast of a game. I do not regret paying full price from it, but I am disappointed that this was the game that I spent my entire college undergraduate career waiting for. I don't think the story is terrible by any means, especially compared to a lot of this generation's JRPG attempts, but it is still something that falls trap to typical shonen/JRPG tropes in an age where they really wear thin. I like the game enough to finish the optional content on my first time through, but I wish I got something more than what I did. Whether it was development hell, Square being too ambitious, or simple confusion on where to take the series next, I felt this game felt short of both my over-inflated hype and Square's own promises and hype. It's not my favorite RPG or even my favorite FF, but what's there, albeit usually flawed, still constitutes as a worth-while RPG experience for me. I'm in the odd position where I don't really love or hate the game, I'm just kind of in the middle.
Story - The story structure is definitely a little bit... different from typical JRPG tropes. One advantage that I can give 13's story is that it manages to make the atmosphere tense throughout for good reasons. Sure, there is no real opportunity to explore towns and what-not, but would that really work when these people are the world's biggest fugitives? Unfortunately, that choice of establishing an in-universe sense of realism and plausibility directly clash with the absurdities expected in RPG design. With the exception of Pulse, the story line still keeps moving and it still kept me motivated to see what would come next, no matter how absurd it actually was. The pace definitely starts to sputter during the last quarter.
It begins to suffer from the symptom of "Well, we don't really have much to contribute to the grand scheme of things rather than have the party members repeat variants of "We have to do it! We're the only ones who can! We have the will to make the impossible possible! etc."
Although, that's just talking about the plot's structure. What about the characters themselves? I found that at least half of the cast was likable in my tastes (Lightning, Sazh, Hope, and sometimes Fang). Moreover, I felt that this game really established the divisive line between likable and developed. For instance, I find Snow and Vanille irritating for many, many, many reasons, but I cannot say that they were not developed characters (
Especially in regards to Snow and Lightning's relationship, a relationship-style between sibling-of-fiance/wife and husband/wife that is seldom explored in games, or the relationship between Vanille and Sazh/Fang
Hope's dad just disappeared into the abyss, and Snow's resistance group virtually vanishes for 35 hours.
But... the villains... Hoo boy, the villains. I would say that the antagonists in this game are among the worst in the entire FF franchise.
Jihl jobs to a random Ruin spell by Barthandelus so quick that I had some serious trouble believing that SE would kill off one of their "main villains" like that. I don't know what in the fuck they were thinking when creating Cid Raines. They have him appear once, appear again 10 hours later to turn evil in a very hamfisted way, crystalize him, have him revived in charge of the evil forces he wanted to fight against only to get killed 2 minutes later? Barthandelus was a pretty lame villain, boiling down to "Hey, you guys. Do this for me" in all of his appearances, and while Orphan doesn't come out of the blue as badly as Necron did, he still ends up being a rather lame final obstacle. I mean, there are definitely much easier ways to try to get some one to kill him and destroy Cocoon. If he wanted a strong enough Pulse L'Cie to become Ragnarok (which was a rather insipid story element in of itself), why go through the trouble of orchestrating a Purge to get them moving, pulling the strings of the entire planet's military forces, hoping they don't get killed along the way, just so one of them can become this magic beast? Building a kind of coliseum/gladiator type of program would have ensured that some one would be quite strong when all is said and done and you wouldn't need to go through this FOXHOUND-esque convoluted scheme. I guess it works well that Pulse Fal'Cie Anima just happened to be in Cocoon, which raises the question of what it was doing for the past two hundr- RRAAAGGGGGHHH.
Too bad he drops off the radar for 2/3rds of the game and his last appearance makes him into a bit of a dope by deliberately following the orders of some one he knows wants to destroy his home. If they had made Rosch into the reoccuring villain, that might have worked out a lot better. Hell, if he some how followed the party into Gran Pulse, that would have made things even better, as at least there is a consistent threat that continues to follow the party. And perhaps seeing Gran Pulse would have had profound effects on his character.
In all, I was interested in the story, but I cannot really say that it was especially well made. But the tension by the swiftly moving chain of events is hurt by some really lackluster antagonists. Sure, you have developed protagonists, but that is really only one side of the coin. Without the other, the party seems more compelled by coincidences and unfortunate events as opposed to an active force or struggle. With that said, it still goes beyond almost every JRPG released this generation, for better or for worse. In the other JRPGs, I felt they usually missed the mark on everything (plot, characters, pacing, etc).
Gameplay - Here we go, a Frankenstein's Monster-esque combination of X-2, X, and XII's gameplay elements. I'll get the entire map issue out of the way first. For the first part of the game, I wasn't really bothered by the linear style of the dungeons. The dungeons might have been rather linear, but they had some really good scenery, and were big enough but did not drag on for too long. Unfortunately, the late game examples have the deadly combination of insanely long dungeons (usually with the same music going through the map and the battles) and absolutely vile enemy placements ("Let's place three of these type of enemies together where taking out one of them is an ordeal! Oh, and let's place them in a narrow hallway where there is virtually no way you're getting around them without an item"). Of course,
Gran Pulse doesn't have this problem. In fact, I really like Gran Pulse for reasons that I can't fully explain. I felt that this is one area that I actually was motivated to explore, which is something that not many RPGs have done before.
I also do like the Paradigm system with some reservations (mostly pertaining to the Crystarium "Sphere Grid-Lite" style of level progression). I mean, when you get down to it, you're switching through a combination of three job classes for your three main characters. But I did appreciate how these combination really did affect how smoothly or not the battles unfolded. For instance, you could go into a battle with three magic dealers or three attackers, but it might be better to have a buff/debuff party or to use a tank to take all of the attacks while the other two members do something else. Sure, people complain that it lends itself to "Press buttons, switch to healing Paradigm when low on HP, switch back," but the mid-game and on requires much more attention concerning how and when to implement certain Paradigm combinations, especially when the difficulty is well above a far amount of non-Megami Tensei RPGs. Plus, the more FF games that actually make status and debuff spells worth a damn, the better. In regards to differing roles, the vanilla version of 12 had an issue where eventually each of the characters became carbon copies of each-other, but I felt FFXIII narrowly avoids this by at least having roles that the members would suit better than others even in the post-game. Unfortunately, when considering that there are only six roles, the end of the road becomes visible pretty quickly. That is why I would wish that SE would really blow the lid off of the Paradigm system with more Job classes and probably a game mechanic built around canceling enemies out of attacks in a more indepth mechanic than the stagger bar and hitting the enemy out of some attacks (The Grandia series have always been excellent in this regard, and it is one of the closest things to FFXIII's gameplay when taking out the Paradigm switching system).
Stuff pertaining to game balance was typically the gameplay stuff I was not a big fan of. What I did like was that even party members outside of battle get exp/cp, which is something that avoids a lot of frustrated encounters, especially for a game that switches party members in and out without abandon. Sure, the game takes a Chrono Cross-esque approach of it being a bit hard to become underleveled or overleveled, but when considering that you do not get good rewards for anything but non-Mission battles, it makes a lot of the fights seem trivial. In the last section of the game, the difficulty becomes "do or die," and you'll seriously start to think twice on whether it is even worth it to go through these long battles for virtually little-to-no reward. The way Gil IS handled is quite weird, as you have a whole bunch of items that you would need a guide to figure out what is sellable and what is actually important for the weapon crafting. Unfortunately, I still have yet to pour a gil into my weapons, so I can't really speak on how effect or not it is.
In all, I felt FFXIII was a strange beast of a game. I do not regret paying full price from it, but I am disappointed that this was the game that I spent my entire college undergraduate career waiting for. I don't think the story is terrible by any means, especially compared to a lot of this generation's JRPG attempts, but it is still something that falls trap to typical shonen/JRPG tropes in an age where they really wear thin. I like the game enough to finish the optional content on my first time through, but I wish I got something more than what I did. Whether it was development hell, Square being too ambitious, or simple confusion on where to take the series next, I felt this game felt short of both my over-inflated hype and Square's own promises and hype. It's not my favorite RPG or even my favorite FF, but what's there, albeit usually flawed, still constitutes as a worth-while RPG experience for me. I'm in the odd position where I don't really love or hate the game, I'm just kind of in the middle.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I don't see anyone couldn't think that Sazh isn't developed in a believable way. He also is about as far from "JRPG cliches" as you can get. He's a very fresh and believable character, and one from a point of view that we don't often see in games. It's really nice to see a father and family man given a lot of focus.
marathonfool
Member
7Th said:
Not sure where you are in the game. But Hope developed quite a bit through his relationship with Lightning. I also think Hope helped Lightning develop as well.
FateBreaker
Member
I have a quick question...am I just looking really terribly, or do none of the stores offer the boosts that you can use on screen before battle? (ATK,DEF,++,HASTE,etc) I am currently in ch 11
the tower
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
marathonfool said:
Yeah, it's pretty clear in Chapter 7 that Lightning wouldn't have developed the way she had without Hope being around.
It was Hope becoming increasingly focused on "Operation Nora" and getting revenge on Snow that caused Lightning to realize that her own aggression was misplaced and had simply been a way for her to avoid coping with what had happened to Serah and to her.
I think the way that both characters influenced the growth of the other one was very well done, and it felt very natural to me.
So I just got to Chapter 10 (fuck you Barthandelus) and things seem to be looking up a bit. The music in the fifth ark is amazing, reminds me a lot of Uematsu's work. The story still isn't resonating with me for the sole fact that I haven't had time to develop any kind of emotional attachment to well...anything really. Everything moves so fast that the plot twists don't really phase me at all.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
I love Fang's design. She's essentially wearing a sports bra and toga with a belt around the waist.
FateBreaker
Member
Crisco said:
ch 9, I think
MechaX said:
This was shoddily explained in the game itself.
When Vanille and Fang almost completed Orphan's ridiculous suicide plan hundreds of years ago, they were, for no real reason, crystallized by the Goddess before they could complete the destruction of Cocoon. After crystallizing them, the Goddess prophesied that the destruction of Cocoon would only come at the hands of the currently sleeping Ragnarok-holding l'Cie. Essentially: by the arbitrary word of the Goddess, only Vanille and Fang held the power to become Ragnarok and destroy Cocoon and Barthandelus and Orphan were unable to actually do anything until they woke up.
Yep, I know what you're thinking: where the fuck did that Goddess come from? Nobody knows, not even the Datalog features much information on her.
DangerousDave
Member
Lost Fragment said:
Check in the codice, the character section. It's explained there.
CruxisMana
Member
Crisco said:
I thought the game started picking up with Chapter 7, but maybe that was just me...
marathonfool
Member
CruxisMana said:
I think the most interesting part of the story and characters were Chapters 6-9.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
if you didn't like chapter 7, you'll never like it. trade it in, asap.Crisco said:
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