Take your time with it is all I can say. I've spent roughly the last 15 game hours just running around looking for more missions to do, and it's been a blast. I did roughly the first 15 or 16 before moving on with the story, and I think I'm finished with mission 1-20 + mission 32 and I just entered the tower.
Welcome to HEAVEN. The same blissfully designed power/difficulty curve as the rest of the game, but applied carefully in an open world so it's no longer handholding or constrictive.
Linear yes, limited fuck-your-mom-no. Almost every location had your basic secrets, some really well hidden secrets and then you have the massive monster arena, blitzball, cloister of trials (and the hidden Aeons) and so much more. I put 120 hours in that game on my first run and didn't get even near 100%.
True, true, but when I think of that I think of it as post-story content. I was referring to the story arc itself.
Those god damn Dark Aeons were devastating.
I needed to get back into the Besaid Trial Temple thing in order to get all the Aeons, and i couldn't beat Dark Valefor. I ended up summoning Yamamasomething and hoping that if I paid him enough he'd use his one-hit kill ultimate move.
Yeah, for how linear it was, FFX had a lot of optional content which was pretty awesome (nevermind the 200 lightning dodges :lol ), but it's really surprising that it was only released a year after the PS2 versus the three for FFXIII.
Yeah, Sazh ain't as bad as some people make him out to be.
I like to put stuff on him that gives him random: chain fill or whatever it's called. Since he hits twice per attack, it gives him twice the chances to activate random stagger.
Yeah, Sazh ain't as bad as some people make him out to be.
I like to put stuff on him that gives him random: chain fill or whatever it's called. Since he hits twice per attack, it gives him twice the chances to activate random stagger.
It is true. Have you played FFX recently? I played it last approx 6 months ago, and if I had $1 for every time the floating winged eyeball showed up in a different color, I'd be halfway to purchasing a new game. Now lets talk about the dogs. Now the elementals. etc. On the front of FFX towns, I never considered an area with 3 siderooms/buildings (one for a shop, one for an inn, and one to move the plot forward) much of a compelling anything. FFX's story simply had a different pace because it was a different story. It was a pilgrimage, a long journey. FFXIII is a mad dash of fugitives. Of course there's not going to be downtime - do you expect them to stop in the local cafe showing off their l'Cie brands and ask for the local rumors? FFX has practically no sidequests at all for the vast majority of the game, unless you count finding Destruction Spheres in the extremely linear "dungeons" of the Aeon temples. The minigames don't show up until nearly the last 3rd of the game, and even then they're maddening. The Chocobo races, the lightning dodging, the butterfly catching, collecting 10 of each monster? - I didn't find any of that to be particularly compelling or enjoyable. The one thing I'd say FFXIII needed to steal is a monster arena (sans the grinding necessary to unlock the monsters). Missions kind of take the place of that though.
There's two specific points I want to make in your post here. One of them is about FFX and one of them is about FFXIII.
First, the FFX point. You can choose to devalue elements of that game as "worthless" or not, but the central issue is not whether you liked the diversions but whether they existed and whether it is distinct from FFXIII in that regard.
And it is. FFX had substantial towns, with secrets, side-quests, mini-games and tons of NPCs to interact with. In the end game, you could revisit all the old areas to find more secrets or do whatever... a feat not possible in FFXIII outside of returning to Gran Pulse. FFX mixed in a lot of things which for all intents and purposes provided relief from the "everything else", which is needed in 40 hour games. It's a necessity to break tedium. No matter how fun a battle system is, fighting similar enemies with similar strategies for twenty hours in a row is going to get tiring. That's why RPGs generally have the structure they do.
So, we disagree about FFX and FFXIII being the same. They are distinct entities with real reasons to choose one over the other.
The second point I'd like to make is about FFXIII. This excuse people keep having about how the game can't possibly let you into towns and such because you're a fugitive on the run. There's two reasons why this is demonstratively false.
One, the reason there are no real town locations is not because they are fugitives on the run. It is because, according to Square Enix themselves, the manpower required to build HD towns on top of the manpower required to build the engine etc was such that they didn't have the time. FFXIII on PS2, like it originally was, would have almost certainly had towns you could explore.
But the evidence doesn't stop there. Because FFXIII has moments in the story which show beyond a shadow of a doubt that you could have downtime if it wanted to and it wouldn't conflict with your "man on the run" status. For example,
Nautilus. Wow, it's amazing! So many rides, so many toys! A perfect place for a breather!
It's the most wonderful place in Cocoon, and Sazh and Vanille both take a break here!
But what do we end up with? The most retarded
hide and seek chocobo game
of all time and more hallways leading to nothing... in fact, if I judged Nautilus from the game, I would have thought it was nothing more than a glorified petting zoo. Most expensive petting zoo ever!
No, there's plenty of opportunities that other games would have given you to breathe a bit if it wanted to. They simply didn't have the time to do so, and it shows. It hurts the game.
Giolon said:
The sphere grid is exactly the same for much of the duration of the game until you get Lvl 3 Lock Spheres. Everyone's stuck on a dictated path that has small sidebranches. The only annoyance is that early in the game you need to farm for specific sphere types that you run short on (damn you Power Spheres!) - but eventually you're just sitting on stacks of 99 of them. Why even bother? (yeah I know they're used for crafting). Swapping out party members in X is not much different than swapping the jobs of your party members in XIII. Around the same time that you'd get L3 Sphere in X is around the same time they let you take all your characters down any Crystarium path in XIII.
Again just because you choose to ignore the actual realities of the system doesn't mean the same. Functionally, switching out party members is not the same as switching paradigms. Because you control every last aspect of the system, from who you switch in to what they do when they're in the battle. Every move, item and spell they cast is your command. You're not depending on woefully unreliable A.I. to do the business for you, and you're not shackled for 60% of the game before you unlock most of the system for play.
In FFXIII, what you do is shuffle decks. You shuffle decks and then watch the game play itself. I've found no purpose to even participating in manual control 99% of the time since this strategy always nets 5 stars. Every boss and 85% of the enemies end in five star victories. All from pressing L1 to switch between like four or five paradigms and then autobattling.
But, then, that's just what I feel about the game. Much like elements of FFX you didn't care for allowed me to catch my breath, elements in FFXIII I don't care for might be precisely what others like. I can respect that.
I just don't like the argument that these games are the same. They're not.
Giolon said:
Maybe everything was obvious to you from the get go, but it wasn't for me.
It really was obvious to me pretty quickly. It sucks that there was no middle ground for them, because no matter how obvious the battle system was for you, I think 90% of all gamers would agree that the 25 hour tutorial/hand-holding this game puts you through is fairly obscene.
Giolon said:
Well if that's what you're after, then you'll have fun getting squished...though I hear Monster Hunter Tri is almost here...
I feel I just hit a wall and need suggestions to move on with the game.
Chapter 11 spoilers
OK, so I've defeated ch.11 boss and spent quite a few hours in Gran Pulse to level up and do missions. Now, I have leveled one 2-tier weapon to star for each of my most-used characters. My party members have around 6000 ~ 8000 HP.
I have finished pretty much all D, C, and B level missions. I attempted a few A level missions; but it seems that my party is a bit too weak for A level monsters now.
So I'm bored now. Killing normal monsters to level up seems slow. The harder ones kill me with one blow. The only thing I can think of is to level my weapons up to the third level; but that Mr. huge-ass turtle thing kills my entire party by just farting at me...
What should I do? Are there any other things I don't know to further level up my party? I'm thinking of just going back to Cocoon to further progress the story. But can I still come back to pulse once I leave?
I feel I just hit a wall and need suggestions to move on with the game.
Chapter 11 spoilers
OK, so I've defeated ch.11 boss and spent quite a few hours in Gran Pulse to level up and do missions. Now, I have leveled one 2-tier weapon to star for each of my most-used characters. My party members have around 6000 ~ 8000 HP.
I have finished pretty much all D, C, and B level missions. I attempted a few A level missions; but it seems that my party is a bit too weak for A level monsters now.
So I'm bored now. Killing normal monsters to level up seems slow. The harder ones kill me with one blow. The only thing I can think of is to level my weapons up to the third level; but that Mr. huge-ass turtle thing kills my entire party by just farting at me...
What should I do? Are there any other things I don't know to further level up my party? I'm thinking of just going back to Cocoon to further progress the story. But can I still come back to pulse once I leave?
So the game runs in 720p (on PS3 at least), but everyone is talking about those great 1080p CGI cutscenes. How can a game and a cutscene have different resolutions? Can someone explain that to me?
So the game runs in 720p (on PS3 at least), but everyone is talking about those great 1080p CGI cutscenes. How can a game and a cutscene have different resolutions? Can someone explain that to me?
What's the issue? It's like taking videos with different resolutions in a media player and playing them one after another. The game is rendered in 720p but the cutscenes are played in 1080p. Some games like Star Ocean 4 even change resolutions in-game.
And it is. FFX had substantial towns, with secrets, side-quests, mini-games and tons of NPCs to interact with. In the end game, you could revisit all the old areas to find more secrets or do whatever... a feat not possible in FFXIII outside of returning to Gran Pulse. FFX mixed in a lot of things which for all intents and purposes provided relief from the "everything else", which is needed in 40 hour games. It's a necessity to break tedium. No matter how fun a battle system is, fighting similar enemies with similar strategies for twenty hours in a row is going to get tiring. That's why RPGs generally have the structure they do.
I agree with you on the fugitive on the run point. This annoys me too. The people who made the game constructed the story. Their hands weren't tied. They could have written anything they wanted to. That they wrote it to be relentless isn't an excuse. They obviously wrote it in such a way that it fit the limitations of what they were making. Every single game story is written with this in mind, and that's no different here. If a part of the game's design is disappointing, the story isn't a reason, it's a symptom.
As for the quoted point, it's as overstating the point as your opposing argument is. FFX had substantial towns? With secrets? And SIDE QUESTS? What version of FFX is this? FFX had late/post game hunt side quests. Late/post game collection stuff too. Neither were anywhere near a town. They were basically positioned exactly the same way they are in XIII. But secrets and sidequests in X's two or three screen towns? That I can't recall.
I can't argue with the minigames point, leaving value judgments out of it, because it had more than XIII certainly. If the argument is XIII is exactly the same as X then the argument does fall apart. But anyone saying that is dumb.
It is however very structurally similar to X. Both are built as a long tube of dungeons, with tiny branches, often holding treasure. Both have sporadic NPC interaction areas. X has more; but not by some sweeping amount. Both break their long tunnel with a wider area late in the game, where you can ride chocobos and fight monsters. The games are built in a very similar fashion, but paced very differently.
They aren't the same, but they aren't wildly different either.
So the game runs in 720p (on PS3 at least), but everyone is talking about those great 1080p CGI cutscenes. How can a game and a cutscene have different resolutions? Can someone explain that to me?
I agree with you on the fugitive on the run point. This annoys me too. The people who made the game constructed the story. Their hands weren't tied. They could have written anything they wanted to. That they wrote it to be relentless isn't an excuse. They obviously wrote it in such a way that it fit the limitations of what they were making. Every single game story is written with this in mind, and that's no different here. If a part of the game's design is disappointing, the story isn't a reason, it's a symptom.
As for the quoted point, it's as overstating the point as your opposing argument is. FFX had substantial towns? With secrets? And SIDE QUESTS? What version of FFX is this? FFX had late/post game hunt side quests. Late/post game collection stuff too. Neither were anywhere near a town. They were basically positioned exactly the same way they are in XIII. But secrets and sidequests in X's one or two screen towns? That I can't recall.
Al Bhed primers hidden everywhere, treasures hidden out of view in towns, stores and buildings to explore with secrets to locate in them.
The towns were less substantial than other FF games... that's undoubtedly true. But still significantly more substantial than FFXIII. And that makes a big difference. People are trying to act like they didn't exist (there weren't many towns), but they were there. They broke up the tedium.
chicken_ramen said:
I can't argue with the minigames point, leaving value judgements out of it, because it had more than XIII certainly. If the argument is XIII is exactly the same as X then the argument does fall apart. But anyone saying that is dumb.
It is however very structurally similar to X. Both are built as a long tube of dungeons, with tiny branches, often holding treasure. Both have sporadic NPC interaction areas. X has more; but not by some sweeping amount. Both break their long tunnel with a wider area late in the game, where you can ride chocobos and fight monsters. The games are built in a very similar fashion, but paced very differently.
The functional flow of the games are similar only at a surface glance. They have corridor tunnels - which I strongly criticized in FFX too - but FFX has all this other stuff on top of it, which allowed it to be tolerable. FFXIII simply does not for 90% of the game, except Gran Pulse.
And once you get under the hood to the battle system, all pretenses of it being the same evaporate. FFX lets you control every element of the system from top to bottom, and it does it without holding the players hand for 60% of the game.
So like I said... the base argument that FFX and FFXIII are basically the same and if you liked one you'd like the other is just false. They are distinct.
Was I the only person paying attention to the script :lol ?
Regarding the "hope" puns some people have conveniently forgotten, let me refresh your memory:
"we still have hope"
"we have no hope! the only hope we have is to get a swift death!"
"...well we should find that hope that which is your namesake"
And several others that occurred mostly during that chapter when Lightning & Hope were alone. It wasn't so bad when they were spread out but one cutscene in particular had a couple of them which had me groaning out loud. Anyways, enough bitching from me, chapter 11 is the bee's knees .
So the game runs in 720p (on PS3 at least), but everyone is talking about those great 1080p CGI cutscenes. How can a game and a cutscene have different resolutions? Can someone explain that to me?
And several others that occurred mostly during that chapter when Lightning & Hope were alone. It wasn't so bad when they were spread out but one cutscene in particular had a couple of them which had me groaning out loud. Anyways, enough bitching from me, chapter 11 is the bee's knees .
And once you get under the hood to the battle system, all pretenses of it being the same evaporate. FFX lets you control every element of the system from top to bottom, and it does it without holding the players hand for 60% of the game.
I don't disagree with this. I don't think anyone can. The battle systems are fundamentally different. XIII has more in common with XII than X's battle system. It's a lot like they stripped all the player control out of XII and replaced it with button mashing.
Amirox said:
So like I said... the base argument that FFX and FFXIII are basically the same and if you liked one you'd like the other is just false. They are distinct.
I think I had said something like that argument leading up to the English release, and you're correct, it's not true as a blanket statement. I still believe that if people are worried about the linearity, as many people were leading up to the English release, then if the linearity of X didn't bother you then the linearity of XIII isn't much worse. We disagree here, that's fair enough. You argue that X had some things to break tedium, but I don't think that tiny number make the game structurally less linear by any significant amount. That's just where we have to disagree I guess.
You dont have to do the monster hunts and prolong it, tbh...
You can really race through 12 and even 13 (I mean in 13 only a small number of fights are actually necessary), 12 is the same way but a level of decent length
I don't disagree with this. I don't think anyone can. The battle systems are fundamentally different. XIII has more in common with XII than X's battle system. It's a lot like they stripped all the player control out of XII and replaced it with button mashing.
I think I had said something like that argument leading up to the English release, and you're correct, it's not true as a blanket statement. I still believe that if people are worried about the linearity, as many people were leading up to the English release, then if the linearity of X didn't bother you then the linearity of XIII isn't much worse. We disagree here, that's fair enough. You argue that X had some things to break tedium, but I don't think that tiny number make the game structurally less linear by any significant amount. That's just where we have to disagree I guess.
The degree to which the game is or is not linear is clearly similar, I think. It's just the structure of how they break up that linearity is different, and is where people like me tend to get hung up.
Finally got Lightning's ultimate weapon last night after grinding edinhall for gil. With 80hrs and 45min now on the clock, I think I'm going to take a break.
I need to figure out a good build for Sazh that makes the most of his multiple-hit attacks. He can effectively break the damage limit without a Genji Glove, and that could be damn valuable.
Use Combat Clinic (Sent/Med/Med) to stop his initial flourish, wait until everyone is in the green then switch to Sent/Com/Rav (forgotten the name) to deal some damage, switching back to Combat Clinic when your HP gets low.
Use Fang as a Sentinel, while the remaining two party members serve as Medics. If you see a chance to switch Paradigms without taking too much damage, switch everyone to either Saboteur or Ravager. Fang's Slow ability is particularly effective.
Use Combat Clinic (Sent/Med/Med) to stop his initial flourish, wait until everyone is in the green then switch to Sent/Com/Rav (forgotten the name) to deal some damage, switching back to Combat Clinic when your HP gets low.
I mean I think its more advantageous to do them after the full crysterium is unlocked and everything is opened up. After a game reaches 10+ chapters, I always face story fatigue in which I just care about finishing the story since its near over, lol. Plus I cared too much about getting a 5 Star on each Mark, so Im waiting (well I finished the game), waited until that point to start, get 5 star on one run through of them all.
Chapter 11 is so much fun. I finally found a good grind spot in
Mah'habara
, near where that Juggernaut boss comes out of the door at the end of a long hallway, you can constantly trigger him to reset the enemies and just run back and forth raping the shit out of bombs and mechanical men. I was enjoying finding ways to sneak up behind the enemy groups and ended up grinding out just about the entire Crystarium almost up to the end of Stage 8 for all the characters. When I reached that grind point, my characters had like 1500 HP, when I left, they all had 3000+. I ended up collecting all the remaining CP on the way to
Taejin's Tower.
I didn't mean to grind out around 750,000 CP in that little hallway, I was just having too much fun to stop. :lol
So now I'm at
Taejin's Tower
, I think I might teleport back and run some missions with my superpowered characters now. At least now every fight isn't praying for survival, now that I have triple the HP I did when I showed up at Gran Pulse. That bastard
