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[Cep]

I've got R. Scott Bakker novels reserved at the library thanks to your recommendation in the book GAF thread, Dresden. And we've gone so off-topic so many times before in this thread that I figure a mod should've yelled at us by now, or something.

That said, I am glad that FF13 has a color manual, but sad that the inner cover art is of Snow. And that the outer cover art is of Lightning. You know the drill, I'm shallow.

Guide my clicking finger to this thread!

 

[User 10639]

Guide my clicking finger to this thread!

It's a monthly thread in O-T. You can't miss it!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=391646

Just be aware that there are a few kids who find Ayn Rand to be high literature in there.

edit: it's also mostly just a lot of cover spamming, but there are good new things to be found within.

 

[Amir0x]

I just saw this... really? Are you equating opinion with fact, here, or are you just really confident and sure in your opinions? Do you never change your mind about anything in argument? I'm just having a hard time grasping that kind of POV. I don't even know why you'd argue with others of varying opinions about anything, in that case.

No, I know the difference between opinion and fact. However, I believe that it is not worth having an opinion unless one is completely confident in the rightness of it. An opinion without the thrust of conviction is a worthless one indeed.

I would not waste my time with such things then.

I do not have these discussions on the off chance my viewpoint would be changed (interesting fact: though nobody else would say it, there is virtually no chance anybody's' opinion is changed through this type of discourse. I am just honest in the reality of things. This is but a pulpit to share our positions, where no one else might listen.).

I have these discussions because I enjoy them. I enjoy hearing other people's perspectives on things, and sharing my own. However, I would not waste my time sharing an opinion which was so feeble that it would be changed by someone saying they liked this or that. As if the world would shift if someone acknowledged an aspect of gameplay they liked. How would such a thing change my perspective? I know what I like, and you know what you like. Acting like there is some way to change this through discussion seems fruitless to me.

I'm just blunt about it. There are other reasons to have conversation and debates though. This isn't debate class, after all, and there are rarely victors.

But that doesn't mean I don't know my opinions aren't objectively true. That it is not fact. That my word is no more true than anyone else's, except to myself. That opinions must be respected.

If I did not respect the people's opinions I talked with, I wouldn't talk with them at all. It is because I find the discussion engaging and that I find different perspectives so fascinating that I argue with others. Passionate, yes, but not out of spite or anger. Just because it's fun. I enjoy these conversations, genuinely.

 

[Dresden]

Guide my clicking finger to this thread!

It's just the monthly 'what you reading' thread. I guess it says something about GAF that it's half the size of the usual 'should I shave my balls' threads.

As for the cover, I wish it had just been a plain white cover with the game's logo on it. Isn't the Japanese cover like that? I can't remember.

edit: damn, so late

 

[Rahxephon91]

oh i understand. sometimes when i play a game i don't feel like putting in any effort either.

looking at it that way i can definitely see why one might love XIII.

FFXIII takes effort, it just effort that is easier to grasp and get into. Thus more relaxing.

Its like WoW and idk Everquest.

 

[User 10639]

It's just the monthly 'what you reading' thread. I guess it says something about GAF that it's half the size of the usual 'should I shave my balls' threads.

As for the cover, I wish it had just been a plain white cover with the game's logo on it. Isn't the Japanese cover like that? I can't remember.

edit: damn, so late

The European covers are usually just the logo on a white background, I think. Maybe Japanese, too. To remind us of the days when Amano actually worked on stuff besides the logos, I guess.

 

[Cep]

The European covers are usually just the logo on a white background, I think. Maybe Japanese, too. To remind us of the days when Amano actually worked on stuff besides the logos, I guess.

I have seen some of Amano's FF13 'designs' and I think it is best if he only does logos from now on.

 

[Amir0x]

FFXIII takes effort, it just effort that is easier to grasp and get into. Thus more relaxing.

*tee hee*

Sexual innuendo ahoy ahoy!

(FFXIII is definitely the least effort FF of all time. I autopilot through 95% of the game so far without blinking, almost all five star efforts. Have no idea why anyone said this game was difficult. It is one of the easiest FF game I've played. The only remotely hard parts were the Eidolons, and that's because each of the battles were retarded.)

As far as mainline FFs go, FFXII is my favorite, followed by FF5, then FF6 and FF4, then the others FFVII and FFIX and FFX. Far from them is FF3.

Far behind still, lagging all, is FFXIII (4/10) and finally FF2 (4/10) and FFVIII (2/10 - only for Triple Triad and the soundtrack does it have any points)

 

[User 10639]

I have seen some of Amano's FF13 'designs' and I think it is best if he only does logos from now on.

What did he do for FF13 that was so offensive? I honestly did not know that he did any designs for the series any more outside of the logos.

edit: oh yeah, thanks for response, Ami.

 

[Rahxephon91]

Well I thought XIII's battle required a lot more thought then most jrpgs. I guess that's just me. I mean I had different tactics for many of the different random monsters. Which is more then XII which just seemed to be "set gambit to attack" and thats it. And FFX which is probably the easiest FF. I don't remember how battles played it the other ones and I guess XI is the hardest.

 

[Cep]

Well I thought XIII's battle required a lot more thought then most jrpgs. I guess that's just me. I mean I had different tactics for many of the different random monsters. Which is more then XII which just seemed to be "set gambit to attack" and thats it. And FFX which is probably the easiest FF. I don't remember how battles played it the other ones and I guess XI is the hardest.

If you want a battle system that requires thought, play Tales of Rebirth, that ought to take you for a spin.

 

[ULTROS!]

I have seen some of Amano's FF13 'designs' and I think it is best if he only does logos from now on.

I don't think so... This artwork is from Versus XIII (as seen in trailers) and it's pretty good:

 

[Cep]

I don't think so... This artwork is from Versus XIII (as seen in trailers) and it's pretty good:

I was not being truly serious, I was just highlighting how awful the particular artwork I was referring to is.

Unfortunately it is a scan, so I cannot post. But searching Amano + FF13 should bring it up.

 

[Skilletor]

WoT book 12 was amazing. Having Rand present in the book was like catching up with an old friend. (I've been reading the series since I was 13 or so.)

I think FF13 is fun, I just dislike everything about the game other than the music and battle system. Since the game design forces everything else on me, but stripped away most of the battle system for the majority of the time I've played, I am very negative on the experience. Maybe when I've spent more time on Gran Pulse and the time spent doing what I want/being forced into things ratio evens out, I'll like the game more.

 

[ULTROS!]

I was not being truly serious, I was just highlighting how awful the particular artwork I was referring to is.

Unfortunately it is a scan, so I cannot post. But searching Amano + FF13 should bring it up.

Oh I saw that. It's just for FFXIII only anyway! :lol

 

[Amir0x]

Paradigms are just gambits you have no control over and with extreme limitations.

You shuffle between a set of chosen gambits and then autopilot your way to victory. Each enemy has extremely easy to exploit weaknesses, and every battle ends in five star using simple techniques (ATB canceling, a simple switch between combo builders and healing on tough battles... maybe throw in a Sentinel to avoid a major attack).

In FFXII, you intricately planned your strategy before battles. The difference is you had a hand in sculpting the entire thing, carefully changing gambits based on what there was to fight. Like most FF games, regular enemies did not require much thought so you could generally rely on a simple gambit set up for them (much like FFXIII, where you can just switch between two paradigms for pretty much 95% of all regular battles). Indeed, one of the strengths of FFXII is that it relegates the tedium of pointless strategy-less battles to the backburner.

But in the big battles, you would sculpt your strategy to your advantage, and when it came together there was nothing more rewarding. In the best battles, you'd even jump in when a gambit set up begins to fail, trying desperately to put your team on the better foot.

Yeah, FFXIII has speed. But it does not have much else over FFXII, if you ask me. In FFXII, every battle had my fingerprint. In FFXIII, it's the computer doing the work, and I just select which "general" duty I wish the computer to perform for me. And the A.I. doesn't even do the goddamn duty right much of the time.

 

[Skilletor]

Paradigms are just gambits you have no control over and with extreme limitations.

You shuffle between a set of chosen gambits and then autopilot your way to victory. Each enemy has extremely easy to exploit weaknesses, and every battle ends in five star using simple techniques (ATB canceling, a simple switch between combo builders and healing on tough battles... maybe throw in a Sentinel to avoid a major attack).

In FFXII, you intricately planned your strategy before battles. The difference is you had a hand in sculpting the entire thing, carefully changing gambits based on what there was to fight. Like most FF games, regular enemies did not require much thought so you could generally rely on a simple gambit set up for them (much like FFXIII, where you can just switch between two paradigms for pretty much 95% of all regular battles). Indeed, one of the strengths of FFXII is that it relegates the tedium of pointless strategy-less battles to the backburner.

But in the big battles, you would sculpt your strategy to your advantage, and when it came together there was nothing more rewarding. In the best battles, you'd even jump in when a gambit set up begins to fail, trying desperately to put your team on the better foot.

Yeah, FFXIII has speed. But it does not have much else over FFXII, if you ask me. In FFXII, every battle had my fingerprint. In FFXIII, it's the computer doing the work, and I just select which "general" duty I wish the computer to perform for me. And the A.I. doesn't even do the goddamn duty right much of the time.

Well said, I agree.

 

[User 10639]

I was not being truly serious, I was just highlighting how awful the particular artwork I was referring to is.

Unfortunately it is a scan, so I cannot post. But searching Amano + FF13 should bring it up.

You're right, it's pretty bad. I just thought it was kind of weird to complain about Amano given that the main character designer for the series is now Nomura, and...yeah. I'll just assume it was a bad interpretation of Nomura's designs. It's weird to prefer Nomura to Amano even if it's just this case, I feel dirty now. O_O

 

[BocoDragon]

After playing XIII, I know why SE insists they can't pull off a VII remake. If it took 5-6 years to pull off the gilded tube that is XIII, there's no way they can pull off the huge world of VII in HD in any normal time frame.

I predict, if they ever do a VII remake, they will outsource most of the work.

 

[Amir0x]

Well considering the engine is place, which is what apparently made them take so long, and considering they wouldn't be moving development from one platform to another, it probably wouldn't necessarily be as difficult as they kept making it seem. Expensive, sure.

 

[BeeDog]

Speed is the key. You need to drive up his bar and then kill him while he's staggered. Otherwise he'll keep regenerating.

Thanks. To 5 star this fight, would you say it's wise to burn through some shrouds? How much will they help?

 

[darkwings]

would you ever use dismantle? Because I am at chapter 11 and not dismantled anything yet.

 

[jtb]

Is it just me, or is the plot of Final Fantasy XIII the same as LOST? (This kind of struck me as I was finishing up the last 2 chapters of FFXIII).

Seemingly random survivors come together and unite for whatever reason (and then break up into various subgroups, etc.) - check

Strong female protagonist (Kate was originally going to be the main character, not Jack) - check

Life changing even that brought all of them together? - check

Flashbacks? - check

Really pointless, repetitive flashbacks? (can anyone say Jack's Tattoos?) - check

Everyone is "connected" - check

Some loosely incorporated theme of fate vs. free will - check

A black dude that just can't stop talking about his son - check

A villian who makes no sense whatsoever, and doesn't even appear until the final act - check

Fucking annoying as hell Australians who should have gotten killed off a long time ago - check

And perhaps the biggest one of all: Both start out extremely character oriented, then halfway through (probably, what Chapter 9/10 and S4 of Lost) it takes a complete 180 and turns into a generic "SAVE THE WORLD", each with their own little twist.

---

Unfortunately, not only did LOST premiere first - in 2004 - but it also does it infinitely better than FFXIII does. And I think, at least reading the last 10 or so pages, since everyone has basically hit on the head why I find the gameplay to be so underwhelming, it's safe to say that watching LOST is a hell of a lot more enjoyable than watching "the army's no match for NORA" - I mean, I still don't understand the concept of this quote! They're fucking bartenders, and, last time I checked, he didn't seem to give a shit about saving people until after everyone started getting purged.

In short, IMO, not only is the story of this game poorly told, but wholly unoriginal and boring. Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees this.

 

[Dresden]

In short, IMO, not only is the story of this game poorly told, but wholly unoriginal and boring. Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees this.

You're actually the first one to notice this. We all thought it was brilliant until you pointed out its flaws. Thank you.

I don't watch LOST, but you sure make it sound terrible. :lol

 

[berserk_ftw]

would you ever use dismantle? Because I am at chapter 11 and not dismantled anything yet.

You can use it later in the game for obtaining 3 traps from Kains Lance Max and for getting Hermes Sandals out of Tetradic Crowns, but besides that, not very often

 

[Amir0x]

would you ever use dismantle? Because I am at chapter 11 and not dismantled anything yet.

Dismantle a few times only... for Traphezhedoblahblah (saving yourself millions of gil if you intend to upgrade for ultimate weapons) and a few times for Sprint Shoes.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I really like FFXIII's battle system. I feel it requires actual thinking ,but yet its really easy to get into. Yet, it also does what I like about XII in that it dosen't require me to do all the stuff I find kind of boring. Now I love FFX and don't mind or dislike controlling healers and casting buffs but its not a fun thing to me. Strangely in FFXI I was a white mage. Anyway, FFXIII allows me to focus on the battle it seems. Its fast and idk just feels fun to me.

RoF just didn't click.

Yes I like the characters in FFXIII a lot. Its the most enjoyable FF cast if you ask me. I also find the story very enjoyable until it falls horribly apart. The stand alone stories of RoF don't appeal to me and I don't know if I like that story structure when it comes to video games.

And I kind of like the linearity of XIII. Yeah its kind of off putting in a way ,but IDK it just ads to the already relaxing rpg experience that FFXIII is. When I play a FF, I play them because I feel like I'm going on a pretty cool adventure. FFXIII still does that.

RoF felt pretty complex and just isn't what I'm looking for in jrpgs right now. What it had to offer didn't seem very good to me. I'll probly buy it if I see it for $20 down the road.

Yeah it kind of plays like Eternal Sonata but its not button mashy, also its not as easy as that game. That was a terrible game.

I guess if that is what you like. I agree with controlling healers or having the game do the redundant stuff for you (I love FFXII) but that is about it. The battle system is ok. It, like the rest of FFXIII, looks really good but you aren't really doing anything with it. The entire game is super easy except for the summon fights, which are just kind of silly. Basically every fight I've gotten into is "which paradigm do I need to use".

I much prefer Resonance of Fate's battles. I need to worry about my teams position at all times, I have to watch the charges on my shots, I have to pay attention during hero actions, I have to time bonus shots, I have to manage my bezels and Resonance Points and a lot of the times I have to avoid blowing up my treasure chests. FFXIII is definitely easy to get into, and I suppose it is relaxing. When I'm playing the games though RoF is a lot more engaging because it is constantly challenging me and MAKING me win fights. And yes RoF is quite complex. I rather have that than something overly simplified.

As far as the characters and story, they do nothing for me. I like Sazh because he has a good voice actor and he generally isn't as bad as most of the others. I don't mind linear games but with this one you literally run down a hall, occasionally branch off to another hall to get a chest, then return back to the same hall to get in a fight or watch a cutscene. FFXII felt like an adventure to me because I was *there* exploring a massive world almost completely at my own pace.

Paradigms are just gambits you have no control over and with extreme limitations.

You shuffle between a set of chosen gambits and then autopilot your way to victory. Each enemy has extremely easy to exploit weaknesses, and every battle ends in five star using simple techniques (ATB canceling, a simple switch between combo builders and healing on tough battles... maybe throw in a Sentinel to avoid a major attack).

In FFXII, you intricately planned your strategy before battles. The difference is you had a hand in sculpting the entire thing, carefully changing gambits based on what there was to fight. Like most FF games, regular enemies did not require much thought so you could generally rely on a simple gambit set up for them (much like FFXIII, where you can just switch between two paradigms for pretty much 95% of all regular battles). Indeed, one of the strengths of FFXII is that it relegates the tedium of pointless strategy-less battles to the backburner.

But in the big battles, you would sculpt your strategy to your advantage, and when it came together there was nothing more rewarding. In the best battles, you'd even jump in when a gambit set up begins to fail, trying desperately to put your team on the better foot.

Yeah, FFXIII has speed. But it does not have much else over FFXII, if you ask me. In FFXII, every battle had my fingerprint. In FFXIII, it's the computer doing the work, and I just select which "general" duty I wish the computer to perform for me. And the A.I. doesn't even do the goddamn duty right much of the time.

I'd like to add that FFXII also gave you options. I played the game with just a few actions per gambit and In real time and that makes a HUGE difference.

 

[Pooya]

Is it just me, or is the plot of Final Fantasy XIII the same as LOST? (This kind of struck me as I was finishing up the last 2 chapters of FFXIII).
*list*
.

Holy shit:lol , didn't really think about this but yep.

 

[berserk_ftw]

Is it just me, or is the plot of Final Fantasy XIII the same as LOST? (This kind of struck me as I was finishing up the last 2 chapters of FFXIII).

Seemingly random survivors come together and unite for whatever reason (and then break up into various subgroups, etc.) - check

Strong female protagonist (Kate was originally going to be the main character, not Jack) - check

Life changing even that brought all of them together? - check

Flashbacks? - check

Really pointless, repetitive flashbacks? (can anyone say Jack's Tattoos?) - check

Everyone is "connected" - check

Some loosely incorporated theme of fate vs. free will - check

A black dude that just can't stop talking about his son - check

A villian who makes no sense whatsoever, and doesn't even appear until the final act - check

Fucking annoying as hell Australians who should have gotten killed off a long time ago - check

And perhaps the biggest one of all: Both start out extremely character oriented, then halfway through (probably, what Chapter 9/10 and S4 of Lost) it takes a complete 180 and turns into a generic "SAVE THE WORLD", each with their own little twist.

---

Unfortunately, not only did LOST premiere first - in 2004 - but it also does it infinitely better than FFXIII does. And I think, at least reading the last 10 or so pages, since everyone has basically hit on the head why I find the gameplay to be so underwhelming, it's safe to say that watching LOST is a hell of a lot more enjoyable than watching "the army's no match for NORA" - I mean, I still don't understand the concept of this quote! They're fucking bartenders, and, last time I checked, he didn't seem to give a shit about saving people until after everyone started getting purged.

In short, IMO, not only is the story of this game poorly told, but wholly unoriginal and boring. Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees this.

I think the flashbacks in LOST were at least interesting, what I can't say to the ones in FFXIII.
Overall it seemed like the most of the time I was LOST in the story of FFXIII, sometimes I didn't even knew what happened. Worst story ever, not engaging and no feelings for any character (besides hate, rage and annoyance XD).

But all in all not a bad game Only the post-story grinding etc. is a bit too much.

 

[The Chosen One]

I'm into chapter 4 now and still loving it. Wish I was playing the game when it was first released and before everyone in the thread was a hater.

Of course, I've been a long time fan of JRPGs, so according to people I shouldn't like this one.

I will say that doing nothing but running, fighting, and watching cut scenes is starting to feel a little tedious, but I'm sure that's going to open up a bit and include at least a couple of distractions.

You poor unfortunate soul. This is exactly what I thought. But I came into this thread and found out the game stays completely linear and tedious until about Chapter 11.

Despite the linearity, I actually enjoyed the environments of chapter 6, but chapter 7 drained me. I don't know if I can force feed myself 3 more chapters without mentally puking.

I'm just astonished how this game got 8 & 9 review scores from major game publications. A lot of people were duped by reviews thinking this was a great game. At best, FF13 is an "acquired taste", at worst it's a terrible "game" devoid of any level design and varied gameplay.

I can't believe I actually bought a strategy guide for this game...

 

[User 10639]

You're actually the first one to notice this. We all thought it was brilliant until you pointed out its flaws. Thank you.

I don't watch LOST, but you sure make it sound terrible. :lol

Holy avatar change Batman. It is kind of terrible, for those and other reasons, but I'm a Lost hater, so I'm not exactly an impartial observer. But lol @ Kate being a strong female protagonist.

Some of those connections are extremely tenuous, but it's clear that the writers probably lifted the flashback structure from Lost, at least. And not to the betterment of the story.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I, too, like Code Geass.

Poor Euphie.

 

[darkwings]

You can use it later in the game for obtaining 3 traps from Kains Lance Max and for getting Hermes Sandals out of Tetradic Crowns, but besides that, not very often

isnt it tetradic tiaras?

 

[berserk_ftw]

isnt it tetradic tiaras?

Quite sure that I got them out of the crowns yesterday. Maybe it is possible with both, don't know ^^

Edit: googled it and it is possible with both, the only difference is, that the crowns are worth 15.000 Gil and the Tiaras much less, so damn, better sold them and used the tiaras, need every penny!

 

[itsinmyveins]

Oh god, the levels, they are sooo long and the gameplay just makes me think of games like Final Fight; run, fight and repeat throughout a linear level. Granted, some of them look spectacular but they all feel very much pointless too in their lenght. Fighting my way through the airship must have taken like three hours or something.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Fucking christ, I am STILL is this stupid crystal forest? Really? Who thought this was a good idea?

edit: Wait, That was the end. I fought a boss and it opened up into another walkway floting in the air for no reason and I thought I was going to have to keep going in here.

 

[M°°nblade]

Paradigms are just gambits you have no control over and with extreme limitations.

You shuffle between a set of chosen gambits and then autopilot your way to victory. Each enemy has extremely easy to exploit weaknesses, and every battle ends in five star using simple techniques (ATB canceling, a simple switch between combo builders and healing on tough battles... maybe throw in a Sentinel to avoid a major attack).

In FFXII, you intricately planned your strategy before battles. The difference is you had a hand in sculpting the entire thing, carefully changing gambits based on what there was to fight. Like most FF games, regular enemies did not require much thought so you could generally rely on a simple gambit set up for them (much like FFXIII, where you can just switch between two paradigms for pretty much 95% of all regular battles). Indeed, one of the strengths of FFXII is that it relegates the tedium of pointless strategy-less battles to the backburner.

But in the big battles, you would sculpt your strategy to your advantage, and when it came together there was nothing more rewarding. In the best battles, you'd even jump in when a gambit set up begins to fail, trying desperately to put your team on the better foot.

Yeah, FFXIII has speed. But it does not have much else over FFXII, if you ask me. In FFXII, every battle had my fingerprint. In FFXIII, it's the computer doing the work, and I just select which "general" duty I wish the computer to perform for me. And the A.I. doesn't even do the goddamn duty right much of the time.

FFXIII has more advantages over FFXII than just speed.
FFXII’s combat system was as much autopiloting as is FFXIII, even more. You programmed your AI in such way that you didn’t have to press a single button to win a battle. You could keep some actions manually but doing so only gave you a disadvantage because of the input delay.
FFXIII on the other hand is tailored around and forces you to do ‘something’ in-battle like switching paradigms, selecting the target and initiate a set of multiple attack commando’s while still avoiding the tediousness of unnecessarily button pressing like in previous FF-games. Because of this, you still have the feeling that the battle itself ‘matters’ because it requires attention to become victorious. It’s a satisfaction FFXII lacked because battle was nothing more than an evaluation of your gambit setup. The outcome of the battle was already determined before it began. As the player, you just watched it unfold.

Another thing I give credits for is the difficulty level of regular fights. They are way more challenging than in any other FF game. This is largely thanks to auto-regen and the dumping of MP. FFXII also had MP regen but still made me walk around in circles to recover MP between fights.
In the end, both systems are different ways to achieve the same thing: managing realtime battle with multiple characters. While they have their own intrinsic pro’s and con’s, they both succeeded cum laude imo.

 

[-tetsuo-]

FFXIII has more advantages over FFXII than just speed.
FFXII’s combat system was as much autopiloting as is FFXIII, even more. You programmed your AI in such way that you didn’t have to press a single button to win a battle. You could keep some actions manually but doing so only gave you a disadvantage because of the input delay.
FFXIII on the other hand is tailored around and forces you to do ‘something’ in-battle like switching paradigms, selecting the target and initiate a set of multiple attack commando’s while still avoiding the tediousness of unnecessarily button pressing like in previous FF-games. Because of this, you still have the feeling that the battle itself ‘matters’ because it requires attention to become victorious. It’s a satisfaction FFXII lacked because battle was nothing more than an evaluation of your gambit setup. The outcome of the battle was already determined before it began. As the player, you just watched it unfold.

Another thing I give credits for is the difficulty level of regular fights. They are way more challenging than in any other FF game. This is largely thanks to auto-regen and the dumping of MP. FFXII also had MP regen but still made me walk around in circles to recover MP between fights.
In the end, both systems are different ways to achieve the same thing: managing realtime battle with multiple characters. While they have their own intrinsic pro’s and con’s, they both succeeded cum laude imo.

I just played through the entirety of Chapter 5 in War & Peace, hardly paying any attention at all. Actually spent a majority of the time browsing the net. I switched a few times just because the fights were going so slow.

 

[Choopy]

What's the catalyst for The Tetratic Tiara? Scarletite??
I want to get sprint shoes and I maxed the Tiara so I can turn it into a crown... And scarletite is the catalyst according to http://ff-13.info/accessory/ .. But scarletite is greyed out

Anyone? =/

 

[Thrakier]

What's the fastest way to get Lightings ultimate weapon (currently gladius @ level 6)?

 

[M°°nblade]

Anyone? =/

Scarletite is for the tetratic CROWN.

For sprint shoes you simply dismantle your maxed tiara. No catalyst required.

 

[Lince]

What's the fastest way to get Lightings ultimate weapon (currently gladius @ level 6)?

Seph just use this guide, remember to get the multiplier to 3x with organic parts (36 Sturdy Bones = instant 3x) before using mechanical parts.

also, you'd be better off upgrading Lightning's Lionheart to a maxed Ultima Weapon (not Omega) and equip one Speed/Energy sash, thank me later.

 

[Amir0x]

FFXIII has more advantages over FFXII than just speed.
FFXII’s combat system was as much autopiloting as is FFXIII, even more. You programmed your AI in such way that you didn’t have to press a single button to win a battle. You could keep some actions manually but doing so only gave you a disadvantage because of the input delay.
FFXIII on the other hand is tailored around and forces you to do ‘something’ in-battle like switching paradigms, selecting the target and initiate a set of multiple attack commando’s while still avoiding the tediousness of unnecessarily button pressing like in previous FF-games. Because of this, you still have the feeling that the battle itself ‘matters’ because it requires attention to become victorious. It’s a satisfaction FFXII lacked because battle was nothing more than an evaluation of your gambit setup. The outcome of the battle was already determined before it began. As the player, you just watched it unfold.

The illusion of participation, much better than the illusion of freedom?

In any event, there was no attention necessary. As I said, I got through the first 10 chapters of the game with mostly five stars and without dying once (except on the first Eidolon battle because I was unsure how to fight them), and that was almost always with a combination of the same two general paradigms and the autobattle command. Never did I stop to consider the proceedings except on the bosses, and even then it was only on the surface level: I just chose a way I wished my team to go "generally", and the computer handled all the details (and a lot of the time, they did not even handle the details well).

That's the problem when you take all levels of control away from the player though. The player begins to notice even more when the computer does it wrong.

FFXIII is the definition of style over substance (even though I don't much like the style either). It's flash and bang, and in the name of speed ever trades off its gameplay. The battle system is indisputably fast. And characters jump about and sparkle like Dragonball Z. If only I could work things out myself, I might have been interested. The foundation of FFXIII is sound after all.

Another thing I give credits for is the difficulty level of regular fights. They are way more challenging than in any other FF game. This is largely thanks to auto-regen and the dumping of MP. FFXII also had MP regen but still made me walk around in circles to recover MP between fights.
In the end, both systems are different ways to achieve the same thing: managing realtime battle with multiple characters. While they have their own intrinsic pro’s and con’s, they both succeeded cum laude imo.

I still don't understand the difficulty comments. I really never will. Outside of the Eidolon's and certain bosses, pretty much every fight could be five starred by auto battling. It's that easy. One doesn't even have time to plan a pre-battle strategy because it is so exceedingly easy. Typically I'll get into a battle I'll switch between two pre-set aggressive paradigms, and then the battle will be over in seconds and I'll get five stars. All without activating a single unique command myself. Just watching the PC go to town.

What does it matter if the HP regens if all battles are won the same way, and without any thought? FFXII typical battles were easy as well, so I'm not calling out FFXIII in this regard... only to say that FFXIII isn't particularly uniquely difficult, and it certainly didn't leverage its set up to be this ultra difficult RPG experience. It's exceedingly simple.

The only difference is in FFXII I had a hand in every level of the battle. The battle system was how I programmed the A.I. Sitting back and arduously selecting an ability from a menu is not any different at all. One takes place on the eve of battle, one takes place during - all is a means of gaining the upper hand on your enemy. But only one gives you any real control of all of the proceedings. And anyway, you could also choose to have a direct hand in battle. Options are great! The way FFXIII forces you to macromanage everything is to the great detriment of the gameplay. Because not only is the A.I. often deficient, you cannot plan for a large number of specific moments that would have been simple as pie in FFXII.

Gambits >>> Paradigms (or you could combine them further for some mixture of the two. Have a set of Paradigm loud outs that you could switch between, but you design even paradigm down to the littlest detail! That would have been so amazing, as it would have kept the speed yet upped the strategizing and maintained player control!)

 

[Ricker]

Seph just use this guide, remember to get the multiplier to 3x with organic parts (36 Sturdy Bones = instant 3x) before using mechanical parts.

also, you'd be better off upgrading Lightning's Lionheart to a maxed Ultima Weapon (not Omega) and equip one Speed/Energy sash, thank me later.

Thanks for the tip but by the time I got the Lionheart,my Gladius was already a maxed Helter Skelter so there was no way I was going to start upgrading a completly new weapon

 

[Choopy]

Scarletite is for the tetratic CROWN.

For sprint shoes you simply dismantle your maxed tiara. No catalyst required.

Ah, I see... Thank you. Reading the guide + a random forum post confused me a bit.

 

[C.T.]

Quite sure that I got them out of the crowns yesterday. Maybe it is possible with both, don't know ^^

Edit: googled it and it is possible with both, the only difference is, that the crowns are worth 15.000 Gil and the Tiaras much less, so damn, better sold them and used the tiaras, need every penny!

I think you need to upgrade a crown to tiara.

 

[M°°nblade]

The illusion of participation, much better than the illusion of freedom?

There are no illusions, only different levels of participation and freedom.
Switching paradigms at the right time and using auto-attack sounds bland but still requires more participation than FFXII’s ‘auto-battle’ system. In FFXII I may have had a hand in every level of the battle, but I didn’t during the actual battle. The experience is very different because one setup gives you unlimited time to slowly refine a macro system while the other one forces you to make decisions during battles while time is running.
FFXIII is by no means a hard game but the regular fights are at least a step-up compared to previous FF games, especially when you reach chapter 11. The gap between regular enemies and bosses is much smaller.

Because not only is the A.I. often deficient...

How come I keep hearing this without experiencing this myself? Are you sure you aren't the one doing something wrong? I have yet to find a specific situation that can't be solved by finding and using more efficiënt paradigms.

 

[jtb]

You're actually the first one to notice this. We all thought it was brilliant until you pointed out its flaws. Thank you.

I don't watch LOST, but you sure make it sound terrible. :lol

Well I didn't mean to point out that it has poor storytelling (that much is obvious) - more that there's a ridiculous amount of parallels to LOST. Oh, that and my personal opinion - since this is a discussion forum. But, going back and reading some 16,000 posts isn't exactly something I enjoy doing in my free time, so I have no idea if this was ever posted.

 

[dramatis]

There are no illusions, only different levels of participation and freedom.
Switching paradigms at the right time and using auto-attack sounds bland but still requires more participation than FFXII’s ‘auto-battle’ system. In FFXII I may have had a hand in every level of the battle, but I didn’t during the actual battle. The experience is very different because one setup gives you unlimited time to slowly refine a macro system while the other one forces you to make decisions during battles while time is running.
FFXIII is by no means a hard game but the regular fights are at least a step-up compared to previous FF games, especially when you reach chapter 11. The gap between regular enemies and bosses is much smaller.


How come I keep hearing this without experiencing this myself? Are you sure you aren't the one doing something wrong?

*sigh* And when someone suggests the idea that you turn the gambits off, or only configure them for the most basic things, the detractor will say, "But the game is MEANT to be played with gambits!" You can have a hand in the battle, all it requires is that you customize the gambits for the least amount of control. You can literally leave it with an Attack gambit only. The choice lies with you, the player, and not with the AI. Just as Rahxephon can claim that he is the one who 'chooses' what the AI does in 13, then of all things why is it so hard to comprehend that in 12 you choose what you yourself want automated and what you want to do yourself?

 

[Amir0x]

There are no illusions, only different levels of participation and freedom.
Switching paradigms at the right time and using auto-attack sounds bland but still requires more participation than FFXII’s ‘auto-battle’ system. In FFXII I may have had a hand in every level of the battle, but I didn’t during the actual battle. The experience is very different because one setup gives you unlimited time to slowly refine a macro system while the other one forces you to make decisions during battles while time is running.
FFXIII is by no means a hard game but the regular fights are at least a step-up compared to previous FF games, especially when you reach chapter 11. The gap between regular enemies and bosses is much smaller.

But that's false though. In FFXII, I have the option of participating in every part of battle... both in and out of it. In FFXIII, I simply don't. The game has no options to do this.

FFXII is slower, true, but I'd take a more methodical battle system to a speedy, detached one where I feel like I basically do nothing to change the outcome of battles but stare glazed-eyed as the mediocre A.I. does its thing.

Again, the whole idea that the regular battles are closer to bosses just doesn't jive with any of my experiences. I think people must be pretty bad at FFXIII if they are having problems. All one must do is auto battle with two paradigms, and occasionally mix in a third one for the odd bugger who has a strong attack. For all regular battles this is all that is necessary for 5 star rewards and under a minute victories.

How come I keep hearing this without experiencing this myself? Are you sure you aren't the one doing something wrong? I have yet to find a specific situation that can't be solved by finding and using more efficiënt paradigms.

Because you're choosing not to look. When I battle any "high level" hunt, the teammates are completely absurd as healers. They will often choose to heal instead of Esuna, when there's a crippling status effect on. They will frequently use a string of weaker mgk attacks, if an enemy is weak against physical attacks + fire, they will go Firestrike -> Fire -> Firestrike -> Fire, instead of just fucking stringing Firestrike together. They don't understand the concept of effect utilization of A.O.E. abilities. There's so many individual A.I. issues that don't come up often during the regular battles, but rear its ugly head in grinding situations, boss situations and hunts. It then goes from being something that is ignorable to infuriating.

Because if you're going to take control away from the player, you better do it right. The A.I. in PERSONA did a much better job.