neoism
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:lolMajukun said:why the worst game of this generation is getting a SECOND OT? ò_ò
:lolMajukun said:why the worst game of this generation is getting a SECOND OT? ò_ò
marathonfool said:If you just want the trophy, you can just sell everything, upgrade all weapons, and not save.
Majukun said:i have not played persona,i know,it's a great game,but never played it personally.
paradigms set only what "generally" tha cpu must do,nbut if,for exemple ,i want to boost my atk in that moment,i can't,i have to switch paradigm and wait that the CPU decide that it's the moment to give it to me,probably after so many other boost that i don't need.
that's not my idea of control.
you don't have total control over you "leader" either,all you have to do is scan an enemy and then press the "automatic attack" every now and then...
Kagari said:I didn't think the old thread was active enough for a second OT, but hey...
KuwabaraTheMan said:Um, you shouldn't be hitting 'auto-battle', then. I played the game for more than 70 hours, and I think the only time I ever really did that was when I was playing as a medic and needed to heal quickly.
Sure, the option exists if you want to use it, but it's pretty ridiculous to complain about the lack of control while using auto-battle.
brandonh83 said:Is it okay to sell the Wurtzite Bangle? It gives between a 2500-3000 HP boost, but I haven't really had to rely on HP boosting accessories-- and it sells for 177,000 gil in the state it's in right now which is going to speed up gil farming.
ULTROS! said:Brandon, you're planning on platinuming the game right? What trophies do you need?
brandonh83 said:dude everytime I see your icon I have to head over to Youtube and watch Tourettes Guy videos.
Trent Strong said:I don't get it.
revolverjgw said:I beat this whole game using just one class, warrior or fighter or something, pounding X the entire game.
Lain said:You and your friends are terrorists (in the eyes of the citizens), you're running away because of your actions at the start of the game and everyone is after you since you tried to save your sister/the people that were being shipped out of Cocoon and now you are looking for a way to save yourself/save your sister if possible while keeping running away.
The story is pretty simple.
Lain said:because of your actions at the start of the game
Crazetex said:<Other people> ZOMG SO MANY NEW WORDS
<Craze> l'cie: chosen one; fal'cie: god; cie'th: ghoul who became unchosen
<Craze> Really, this isn't hard, folks
<Craze> Also, the codex is really well-written, so check out the story bits if you're lost
<Craze> but seriously if you don't get it as you go then I think you're trying too hard not to like the game and need to get the stick out of your ass! Just enjoy games, please. They're for entertainment, not over-analyzing
Crazetex said:<Other people> ZOMG SO MANY NEW WORDS
1)<Craze> a) l'cie: chosen one; b) fal'cie: god; c)cie'th: ghoul who became unchosen
<Craze> Really, this isn't hard, folks
2)<Craze> Also, the codex is really well-written, so check out the story bits if you're lost
3)<Craze> but seriously if you don't get it as you go then I think you're trying too hard not to like the game and need to get the stick out of your ass! Just enjoy games, please. They're for entertainment, not over-analyzing
There's a big difference between having secondary details being optional to read with having vital key words and points of the story being optional to read.Lain said:The game doesn't explain those things to you outright because it puts all the detailed explanations about stuff (like fal'cie, for example) in the database and leaves it up to you to read it if you're interested or just ignore it otherwise.
Personally I liked this choice they took, because of the premise of the game. Since you are always on the run fleeing, there is little time to give you specific explanations about certain things, but you can still get it thanks to the database in the game.
Grivenger said:There's a big difference between having secondary details being optional to read with having vital key words and points of the story being optional to read.
Not only that, but the story contradicts or ignores its premise when it feels like it. Do remember that we are talking about the same story where characters have all the time to brood, whine and repeat the same sentences over and over, or go to entertaining parks, explore relaxing forests and etc while on the run. I don't care if there's good reasons for that or not. Point is: the writers could have presented the story much better than they have if they were capable to.
FFXIII's writing is about equal as any teen's fanfiction-"writing". It has no notion of presentation, structure, immersion, etc. You don't even need to compare it to "high literature" to see that, nor "over-analyze it" neither. Just compare it to FFX's instead, whose story has many similarities, yet its presentation was far more competent.
Lain said:Frankly, I don't really feel that the game contradicts or ignores its premise when the characters do the stuff you mentioned, nor do I think that it should explain explicitly certain things to the players given the premise and the presentation of those key points.
Lain said:Things are shown, you are given some sort of idea about it with as little knowledge as also the characters themselves possess, and that's enough to be able to enjoy the story without thinking too much about it.
Lain said:Then you have the chance to get more detailed explanations thanks to the database, but even without reading it everything is kinda simple to grasp, more or less.
Lain said:Also, I feel that if the game tried to explain some things directly to the player, it would have come out as pretty cheesy, simply because it already came out as pretty cheesy (the Hope/Lighting or Hope/Snow stuff for example) when not doing that.
Lain said:In comparison to FFX, there you were on a journey to take the maiden to her destination, you had all the time in the world to be given info about stuff. In 13, premise wise, you don't have that luxury and I'm ok with that.
I don't disagree that it can be seen as a flaw or a lazy way to do things by other people, but for me it just wasn't. For me it worked perfectly given the game at hand.
The ending alone completely ignores the whole "thematic" build up of the entire story before it.Lain said:Frankly, I don't really feel that the game contradicts or ignores its premise
Just because the characters are on the run, does not means that the player should NOT know why they are on the run. Using terms like L'Cie, Fal'Cie and Cie'th, making dramatic events out of the meaning of those, but not knowing what they truly are unless you read the optional walls of text in the datalog, isn't exactly good storytelling. Especially when the story itself wastes so much time throwing at the player secondary details or overly repeating other details.nor do I think that it should explain explicitly certain things to the players given the premise and the presentation of those key points.
That's what FFX does well, not FFXIII. For the player to know decently well the premise behind the party's run, he must read them optionally, because much of the terms are already known by the characters but not by the player.Things are shown, you are given some sort of idea about it with as little knowledge as also the characters themselves possess, and that's enough to be able to enjoy the story without thinking too much about it.
You also get to understand vital key points of the story thanks to the datalog, because the cutscenes themselves are more busy throwing at you secondary details more so than primary ones.Then you have the chance to get more detailed explanations thanks to the database
If FFXIII's story wasn't designed to focus on the world development and make the player immerse within its world, then it shouldn't have thrown plenty of world-twisting plot points at the last 1/3 of the game. But it does that, much like FFX. And thus in turn, unlike FFX, it fails completely to make the player interested or "shocked" by them. (Not to tell that FFXIII also throws out those twists in the most boring and generic imaginable way, with a cliché villain popping up once and then and revealing all of those through a wall of text and evil laughs in between... but that's simply one of many other things that makes FFXIII's story completely amateur.)In comparison to FFX, there you were on a journey to take the maiden to her destination, you had all the time in the world to be given info about stuff. In 13, premise wise, you don't have that luxury and I'm ok with that.
Grivenger said:There's a big difference between having secondary details being optional to read with having vital key words and points of the story being optional to read.
Not only that, but the story contradicts or ignores its premise when it feels like it. Do remember that we are talking about the same story where characters have all the time to brood, whine and repeat the same sentences over and over, or go to entertaining parks, explore relaxing forests and etc while on the run. I don't care if there's good reasons for that or not. Point is: the writers could have presented the story much better than they have if they were capable to.
FFXIII's writing is about equal as any teen's fanfiction-"writing". It has no notion of presentation, structure, immersion, etc. You don't even need to compare it to "high literature" to see that, nor "over-analyze it" neither. Just compare it to FFX's instead, whose story has many similarities, yet its presentation was far more competent.
Wrong. Teen fanficition doesn't take 20 hours to start.Grivenger said:FFXIII's writing is about equal as any teen's fanfiction-"writing". It has no notion of presentation, structure, immersion, etc. You don't even need to compare it to "high literature" to see that, nor "over-analyze it" neither. Just compare it to FFX's instead, whose story has many similarities, yet its presentation was far more competent.
Solstice said:That's the first time I thought of it like that. That's a very good point.
Fimbulvetr said:"Let's fight our own fate, and by fight we mean get a deus ex machina to do it for us."
Sure, if you don't actually care about what's going on.
Telling the story through the database is itself a flaw.
Or they could have told us stuff in a way that isn't completely unnatural. You're basically saying you want the story to be badly told otherwise it would be even more badly told, this is not a good defense.
So you're saying the cutscene when the party stops so Snow can give a speech about their focus, even though he just literally gave that same exact speech during the last cutscene, couldn't be cut and exchanged for minor explanation?
Are you saying that their time was too limited when the party had apparently stayed on Pulse long enough to forget how much time they spent there?
Grivenger said:The ending alone completely ignores the whole "thematic" build up of the entire story before it.
Just because the characters are on the run, does not means that the player should NOT know why they are on the run. Using terms like L'Cie, Fal'Cie and Cie'th, making dramatic events out of the meaning of those, but not knowing what they truly are unless you read the optional walls of text in the datalog, isn't exactly good storytelling. Especially when the story itself wastes so much time throwing at the player secondary details or overly repeating other details.
That's what FFX does well, not FFXIII. For the player to know decently well the premise behind the party's run, he must read them optionally, because much of the terms are already known by the characters but not by the player.
You also get to understand vital key points of the story thanks to the datalog, because the cutscenes themselves are more busy throwing at you secondary details more so than primary ones.
If FFXIII's story wasn't designed to focus on the world development and make the player immerse within its world, then it shouldn't have thrown plenty of world-twisting plot points at the last 1/3 of the game. But it does that, much like FFX. And thus in turn, unlike FFX, it fails completely to make the player interested or "shocked" by them. (Not to tell that FFXIII also throws out those twists in the most boring and generic imaginable way, with a cliché villain popping up once and then and revealing all of those through a wall of text and evil laughs in between... but that's simply one of many other things that makes FFXIII's story completely amateur.)
Lain said:The premise I was referring to is that they are constantly on the run. I didn't see a Deus Ex Machina do the running for them.
Lain said:No, if you give things the right amount of attention they deserve and take them as seriously as they deserve.
Lain said:If the whole story was told through the database, I might be more inclined to agree with you, but the database serves the purpose of expanding and explaining things that, in the context of the game, would have felt a bit out of place to be explained in game in the same detail the database goes in. The story is told in the game, and while I can agree that it would have been better if at least certain terms used were also explained directly, I didn't feel the need for it. Since I didn't feel the need for it, I'm completely OK with the way they did it because I don't see it as a flaw. I'm still open to other people finding it a flaw
Lain said:I never said I want the story to be badly told but that I'm OK with the way they did things because, given the game, the premise and the context, it worked for me.
The fact that also seeing how they handled certain elements makes me even more happy they went this way is just a way to say that yeah, the writing wasn't good, so with that in mind, the less they tried to do shit the better.
Lain said:Who would have given that minor explanation though, and what would it have concerned? How would it have been handled, when the characters themselves know so little, and the ones that know a bit more, hide it?
Lain said:What I'm saying is that, in the context of the game, you're a group of terrorists trying to escape, find answers and save your sister/lover/friend, so much of everything else really doesn't matter as much is it would/should otherwise.
But they end in a forest, but they end in a park, but they spend time here and there moping or giving speeches. Yes, they do, but so what? It doesn't change that the next second they're running again to escape from the people giving chase, to try to fulfill their focus and escape their curse etc.
Lain said:I don't think I can make it more clear than this, other than saying, flawed or not, it worked for me and really that's all I was saying.
Lain said:The ending fails to give a closure, and it left me underwhelmed, but by premise I meant the running away.
Lain said:I'm of the idea that the player knows perfectly well why they are on the run. The player does not know what L'Cie, Fal'Cie, Cie'th etc mean, but they are told that L'Cie need to be eliminated, that Fal'Cie from Pulse want the destruction of Cocoon and curse you, as such whoever gets close to one needs to be purged etc. I felt that to be explanation enough for the reason on why you're on the run.
Lain said:Again, given that the premise is that you have to run constantly, I see doing the explanation of those terms through the database as a good enough way to try and maintain the feel of these guys running away, spending what little time they do taking a break with the moping/depression/speeches that I feel fit from a context of stressful running away while your life is ticking away.
Lain said:What world-twisting plot points are we talking about? The truth about Cocoon? I can't say I would have cared too much one way or the other.
I mostly cared about Lighting, I didn't really care about the world (outside of thinking that it looked beautiful) since I wasn't given enough of that world to see and explore and my time in it was "limited". To me FFXIII is more of a character driven game, where everything else is just a backdrop to have these characters act.
Lain said:Btw, the cliché villain doing the boring and generic explanation here and there is imo a less offensive flaw than the fact that there isn't a real villain throughout the game, that antagonists characters are thrown away like rags and that you can tell who's gonna do what before they even do it.
Fimbulvetr said:But nobody was arguing that it didn't work for you.
Fimbulvetr said:"Let's fight our own fate, and by fight we mean get a deus ex machina to do it for us."
Lain said:Then, exactly, what are you trying to argue with me?
What exactly is the point of breaking down the posts of someone that simply said he was OK with the way SE chose to go about things with the use of the database to explain things like l'Cie, fal'Cie etc?
I really don't get it.
Fimbulvetr said:Weren't you the one who started it with Lumine?![]()
edgefusion said:The shameful underuse of the games hottest character, Rygdea, makes me sick. That is all.