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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn |OT3| LFT Full Relic and DL Required
- Thread starter Kokonoe
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diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Jeeze, you guys jump down the throat of people that enjoy different things.
I enjoyed rushing to endgame and getting this coil bit learned. I know there won't be challenging content for some time, but that doesn't slow me down or stop me from subbing.
You see, I enjoy the friendships I made and often come on mumble even if I am playing something else. I also would like to support the developers of this great game and show them (with my money) that I am eager to see what they can bring with future updates.
No reason to get all fussy when somebody expresses an opinion on what may or may not be a shortcoming of the release. Just keep playing and enjoy it how you would like to enjoy it.
Yeah, I mean, I still haven't been able to play Wind Waker. There's that new Ratchet and Clank game that I'd like to run through, not to mention two or three other titles I'd love to run through right now. I haven't played any of these, because I'm enjoying the content in XIV for the time being. Running out of content isn't going to be the end of the world for me though, it just means that I'll get to play something else while XIV's on the back burner.
It's probably still a good idea to pace yourself in MMO's a bit though. I was shocked with how many people had gotten through the main story in under a week. I mean, I paced myself and stretched that out to a month, and there were few nights where it felt like I was forcing myself to quit all that early.
My biggest issue with the game is in its replayability. After you've leveled your battle class to 50, you've pretty much seen all there is to see in the world. Leveling a second battle class and onward requires you to fate grind (the very limited number of fates) with the occasional bounty and class quest along the way.
Coming from Guild Wars 2, this was a disappointment for me. Even after level capping four different characters in GW2, I still find myself discovering new dynamic events and hidden areas, all the time. Even If I reached the point where I didn't feel like repeating content on a new character, I can bypass it altogether by leveling via crafting professions, or jumping into WvW (which has its own progression system as well).
I really hope FFXIV improves in this regard.
Coming from Guild Wars 2, this was a disappointment for me. Even after level capping four different characters in GW2, I still find myself discovering new dynamic events and hidden areas, all the time. Even If I reached the point where I didn't feel like repeating content on a new character, I can bypass it altogether by leveling via crafting professions, or jumping into WvW (which has its own progression system as well).
I really hope FFXIV improves in this regard.
There's a lot of grinding at the end game. The grind isn't high value.
It's great been able to play from different perspectives - but a lot of the content in this game is under-utilized - you go through it once or twice and you're done with it, because there's no real incentive to redo them. But there's a narrow slice of content that ends up preoccupying all your time at end game, because that's all you're incentivized to do.
They're improving on this... but they've a long way to go before there's a wide variety of activities to engage with at end game - things that you can do that build some degree of temporary lasting value; rather than value that is nearly immediately superseded (as with the case of leveling gear).
Ideally, you'd be able to enjoy the breadth of the game's content while using it all to build meaningfully towards your end game goals - so that you're not necessarily spending more time with the game, but that the time you spend with the game is filled with more variety and interest.
Masterful designers will consider player 'exploits' part and parcel of the mastery curve that is so necessary towards creating engaging long term experiences. Like speed running wanderer's palace - it doesn't seem as though it was intended for players to pull large packs of mobs and AOE them down - but players do it - the skill and gear requirements are high, and the process stressful, fun and engaging enough for players to build mastery on.
Now take that idea, but build it into the game on a systemic level, and explicitly reward it.
And bam, you've barely generated any extra content work for the team, but you've greatly extended the value of the existing content and content going forwards for players.
It's great been able to play from different perspectives - but a lot of the content in this game is under-utilized - you go through it once or twice and you're done with it, because there's no real incentive to redo them. But there's a narrow slice of content that ends up preoccupying all your time at end game, because that's all you're incentivized to do.
They're improving on this... but they've a long way to go before there's a wide variety of activities to engage with at end game - things that you can do that build some degree of temporary lasting value; rather than value that is nearly immediately superseded (as with the case of leveling gear).
Ideally, you'd be able to enjoy the breadth of the game's content while using it all to build meaningfully towards your end game goals - so that you're not necessarily spending more time with the game, but that the time you spend with the game is filled with more variety and interest.
Masterful designers will consider player 'exploits' part and parcel of the mastery curve that is so necessary towards creating engaging long term experiences. Like speed running wanderer's palace - it doesn't seem as though it was intended for players to pull large packs of mobs and AOE them down - but players do it - the skill and gear requirements are high, and the process stressful, fun and engaging enough for players to build mastery on.
Now take that idea, but build it into the game on a systemic level, and explicitly reward it.
And bam, you've barely generated any extra content work for the team, but you've greatly extended the value of the existing content and content going forwards for players.
Man I still need to beat Poke'mon but there is so much stuff that I should do to increase the effectiveness of my main class, even though I already have 6 Item Level 90 pieces, there is just so much more that I can do to improve. I guess that's what lead me to gathering and what will eventually lead me to crafting. Every time I think I've run out of stuff to do I find something occupy myself with.
TheDancingWatermelon
Member
Well you do main a Dragoon, so you've been playing wrong since day one imo.
In regards to this discussion, I personally play mmo's with 3 rules in mind(lets call them Odo Laws, trademark pending). One of which is "everyone plays differently." It's perfectly fine if you want to take your time, level slowly, or whatever. It's also perfectly fine if you GOTTA GO FAST and blaze through things. I personally did the latter, and now I'm in conservation mode where I log in a few times a day, do a few things here and there and then just go play other games. Am I getting as much out of the game for my money as I was a month ago? Of course not. The end game is thin, there's no point in arguing that. I still enjoy the game, love the GAF FC, and think the world of my coil cabal though, so its money well spent to me!
People play for all sorts of reasons. And as long as you're not forcing your reason on someone or being disrespectful to people who are playing for other reasons, that's fine.
Complaints are good and often accurate. A game can cater to many different types of players. "Casual" and "Hardcore" are not mutually exclusive and with some understanding and theory of mind, the two are often compatible for lots of content.
Complaints are good and often accurate. A game can cater to many different types of players. "Casual" and "Hardcore" are not mutually exclusive and with some understanding and theory of mind, the two are often compatible for lots of content.
You better heal me in PvP when 2.1 comes out D:
I tend to agree with this general sentiment. Also, I'd love to see a few Fates or dungeon events that were nothing but Zerg rush events set to timers. IE: dungeons where you'll run into certain scenes where an endless number of weak enemies spawn, that you, "must," survive, until a timer reaches zero and some sort of escape path becomes available.
It'd have to be optional content though, because I'd think you'd need at least one AoE DPS to have a decent chance of surviving
EDIT: When I say, weak enemies, I'm thinking along the lines of those beetles from WP. Imagine events where you had to fight twenty of those at once, just wave after way of them.
theSlacker
Member
If you want to be fair about it, WoW at launch had BRD, Scholo, both sides of Strat, and both sides of BRS to do for cap content, not even counting the actual 40 man raiding content. As well as a much larger world, and longer leveling path. This really doesn't relate to the topic at hand, I just get annoyed when I see constant claims that it is only though nostalgia that Vanilla WoW was a good game, when even at the day of launch it was an objectively better game then most mmos that get released now.
Vanilla wow had it's problems too. I played war and tge best way to tank was to use only sunder armor lol.
theSlacker
Member
And keep up full stacks on everything near you, but then also spam the fuck outta heroic strike to burn though rage instead of just sitting there letting it cap with sunders stacked. It is only by the grace of god that one of the super bad tanks that I raided with got Thunderfury since he too thought that just stacking sunders was all you had to do as a tank.
But yes, WoW at launch did have actual problems at launch as well, like servers going up and down, super lag, imbalance, and so on. Lack of content was not one of those problems.
It's off topic but...
What impresses me most about vanilla WoW was 2 unique continents, 2 unique factions, and unique starting areas for every single race in the game. There were also multiple choices of where you wanted to level. Multiple paths of progression in that sense.
Even ignoring end game, WoW had significantly more content at the start than many new games have even after an expansion.
It's not without problem but the lack of content in FFXIV:ARR is real. FFXIV:ARR is more in line with all other modern MMORPGs, which also fall short of vanilla WoW content-wise. What's disappointing about that is that FFXIV isn't a new game. But the circumstances for ARR to exist allow me to forgive it for that.
What impresses me most about vanilla WoW was 2 unique continents, 2 unique factions, and unique starting areas for every single race in the game. There were also multiple choices of where you wanted to level. Multiple paths of progression in that sense.
Even ignoring end game, WoW had significantly more content at the start than many new games have even after an expansion.
It's not without problem but the lack of content in FFXIV:ARR is real. FFXIV:ARR is more in line with all other modern MMORPGs, which also fall short of vanilla WoW content-wise. What's disappointing about that is that FFXIV isn't a new game. But the circumstances for ARR to exist allow me to forgive it for that.
Lets not forget the fact ARR was literally born in a span of 2 years as well.
WoW had at least double that amount of time to develop the world considering development for that started somewhere in 1999 till release of '04. That's a shitload of time to create content wheras Yoshi and team basically tore down what little we had in 1.0 and rebuilt it or just completely threw out swaths of it to make again. I'm all for comparing launch titles, but ARR is a weird as fuck case as it stands with an even more odd development cycle.
theSlacker
Member
Watch out. Some stickler is gonna nail you on the fact that 2 races, one on each side, had to double up their starting area with another.
Bolded is something that has annoyed me about every post WoW mmo. Games kicked out the door to compete with a titan without even the same amount of content that that game had at launch. And when you complain about this the common response is "well you can't expect a game to have the same level of content as WoW, that game has been out for years".
Still offtopic, because this doesn't relate to FFXIV and it's unique upbringing.
Yes. That is why I said, "But the circumstances for ARR to exist allow me to forgive it for that."
Also, FFXI was lacking in many ways too at launch. But it became my all time favourite over time. So I have long term hopes for FFXIV:ARR even if it's not the best right now.
There's no doubt that WoW had a lot of content at launch, although I do kinda wonder how it would've been if they were going with the token system for armor back then. WoW also had major content patches more rapidly than this game will, what with Maraudon being added one month after launch, and Dire Maul being added 3 months later. Of course, these were pre-cap dungeons, so that left end-game raiders with Molten Core and Onyxia all the way until when Blackwing Lair was released, 8 months after launch. Adding to that, the PvP honor system came 6 months after launch and battlegrounds came in 7 months after launch.
At the same time -- I don't expect everyone to look at it this way; it's totally fair to ignore this aspect and look solely at the product before you -- when looking at this game's history and the fact that they were able to form a new team, toss out pretty much everything from 1.0, and give us what we have right now in such a short amount of time is nothing short of amazing, and it makes me incredibly excited to see what's to come as the game matures.
NA players were spared this, but FF11 didn't even have subjobs at Japanese launch. Those came several months later.
theSlacker
Member
As I said, that post didn't really relate to this game or the topic at hand, just was making a response to the quoted comment concerning WoW's content. Nevertheless, I am more then happy to engage in this conversation. As an added point to your argument, the atmosphere was a lot different as well, and even though it did take a while for BWL there wasn't as many people, percentage wise, that were waiting on it feeling like there is nothing else to do in WoW. That isn't to say that there wasn't people that were waiting for BWL/new content, just that that group wasn't "nearly everybody at cap".
Not that it maters, Dire Maul was cap content, and only got tuned down below 60 when Cata came out, to more fit with the level you would be going though Feralas, iirc. Also not that it maters, or relates to anything we have been saying, but Maraudon was boss as everliving fuck. Thought it needed mentioning. Do you remember how big that place was, with all the quests and bonus bosses? God damn.
Libra Eorzea is finally out on Android.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.square_enix.libra_eorzeaE&hl=en
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.square_enix.libra_eorzeaE&hl=en
Something else to keep in mind, models and assets were/are a lot easier to create when you're working on WoW scale visuals. So not only did it have more time to develop all that, but, it took less time to develop the same number of assets as FFXIV.
Not that this makes all THAT much of a difference. Some gamers will be willing to cut the game some slack because of all this, and wait for future content upgrades to flesh things out. Other players will either leave for a time, or move on permanently.
Hopefully the former, I really do want this game to do well.
If you're having very frequent lag issues, are running a PC (I don't think it helps with PS3,) and really care about this game.
Yes, it's probably worth the five dollars a month.
Teletraan1
Banned
People are also dialed in a lot more than Vanilla WoW. While I admit that Vanilla WoW has more content than this game. People eat through the content at a much faster pace now. It tends to happen when this style of game is iterated on. We now live in a world where you can find a video to show you how to beat every boss and sites dedicated to telling you the optimal rotation and gearing strategies. I dont recall a vast proliferation of that when WoW released.
yaffi
Member
Well, the huge delay on some AOE attacks really makes it difficult for me to play normally sometimes.
theSlacker
Member
Touched on that with my last response to Aeana. How people play mmos has decently changed, but that doesn't change the fact about just how much content WoW had even at launch.
BTW, that reminds me.
A GAFer whom I frequently play with has been dealing with PS3 lag issues for quite awhile, but recently he apparently tried the whole, "log out of PSN trick," and now insists that the problem has disappeared.
Can I get independent confirmation that this actually works? Because if it does, I'd like to take him into Coil. He's a very eager player, that always seems ready to contribute, and that's something I love seeing. At the same time though, while I'm willing to risk it, I've got to think about everyone else in that party. If one or two players lagging is the difference between a relatively quick fight, and hours of wipes, then I really do have to seriously consider letting these players go.
It really is an unfortunate situation, because I would just assume get everyone through. On something like Coil though, that just may not be a practical mindset. You have to go through those first few fights every week after all, so even if you can carry a laggy player through once, that doesn't mean you can and should do it every week. So, to that effect, yes, I'm curious whether that PS3 fix works.
Full disclaimer, no I am not criticizing anyones gamer skills. Even great players can hit a wall when they're lagging in Coil. XD
On another note, I also happened across another GAF whom is stuck playing the game on a relatively low power laptop. This player can play the game well enough at the lowest settings, at 720p, but during Primal fights the rendering slows down that they experience a 1-2 second input/reaction lag.
Is there anyway to further reduce settings for this player? The plan seems to be to upgrade the rig eventually, but it sounds like this isn't an option in the near term. In the meantime, said player is stuck on the Relic Quest, wearing full Darklight gear, but refusing to initiate the fight.
Also, I'm keeping the identity of this player a secret for now, for the sake of the players privacy.
A GAFer whom I frequently play with has been dealing with PS3 lag issues for quite awhile, but recently he apparently tried the whole, "log out of PSN trick," and now insists that the problem has disappeared.
Can I get independent confirmation that this actually works? Because if it does, I'd like to take him into Coil. He's a very eager player, that always seems ready to contribute, and that's something I love seeing. At the same time though, while I'm willing to risk it, I've got to think about everyone else in that party. If one or two players lagging is the difference between a relatively quick fight, and hours of wipes, then I really do have to seriously consider letting these players go.
It really is an unfortunate situation, because I would just assume get everyone through. On something like Coil though, that just may not be a practical mindset. You have to go through those first few fights every week after all, so even if you can carry a laggy player through once, that doesn't mean you can and should do it every week. So, to that effect, yes, I'm curious whether that PS3 fix works.
Full disclaimer, no I am not criticizing anyones gamer skills. Even great players can hit a wall when they're lagging in Coil. XD
On another note, I also happened across another GAF whom is stuck playing the game on a relatively low power laptop. This player can play the game well enough at the lowest settings, at 720p, but during Primal fights the rendering slows down that they experience a 1-2 second input/reaction lag.
Is there anyway to further reduce settings for this player? The plan seems to be to upgrade the rig eventually, but it sounds like this isn't an option in the near term. In the meantime, said player is stuck on the Relic Quest, wearing full Darklight gear, but refusing to initiate the fight.
Also, I'm keeping the identity of this player a secret for now, for the sake of the players privacy.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
We have a PS3 user in our coil group and the PS3 has not been an issue in T1-T4 and I doubt it will be an issue in T5.
Now, if that PS3 user is not in the USA or Canada, it may be another issue.
Princepeach
Neo Member
I've seen it as low as 8:15 today.
Well, in his own words, before he wasn't even seeing the AoE markers before attacks hit, and was memorizing them for the various boss/primal battles. Now he's apparently seeing them in real time.
I just want to know if anyone can varify if A: PS3 users sometimes have problems this dramatic, and B: that logging out of PSN can reduce or fix these kinds of problems.
You have any reason not to trust this guy? Why not just give it a try.
I'm heavily inclined to do so. Just, trying to balance out interests is all. I mean, in eight person teams, there are six other players trying to clear the event as well. So somebody has to look out for their interests as well.
I'll almost certainly invite him to participate sometime tonight.
ur a dirty dodo that's what
TatteredHat
Member
You brought this upon yourself.
I was super skeptical about it after Pingzapper and WTFast did nothing for me but it has a free trial and I thought I'd give it a shot. The delay on AOE was destroying me in Titan HM and living in Aus made it super hard to do anything high level. It seriously worked for me. Can't speak highly enough of it. Try out the free trial.
Maraudon has like 3 different sections with different entrances. That place was huge.
But regarding the state of this game:
What gives me the most hope about FFXIV:ARR's future is what happened in 1.0 - 1.23.
The launch was terrible. Probably one of the worst MMORPGs I have ever played. But if you see how far they went going to 1.23 with this team it's pretty amazing. They took that mess and made a good game out of it with some really cool story. The base here is better than the original (although I prefer 1.23's battle system honestly...) so just imagining what they can do with this in a year or two gets me super excited.
But regarding the state of this game:
What gives me the most hope about FFXIV:ARR's future is what happened in 1.0 - 1.23.
The launch was terrible. Probably one of the worst MMORPGs I have ever played. But if you see how far they went going to 1.23 with this team it's pretty amazing. They took that mess and made a good game out of it with some really cool story. The base here is better than the original (although I prefer 1.23's battle system honestly...) so just imagining what they can do with this in a year or two gets me super excited.
yaffi
Member
Okay, I'm going to give it try during Titan tomorrow and report back if it changes anything.
Be careful though with the trial. It will disconnect you every 20 minutes or so, mainly to get you to pay I guess.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Ken you better not post mine
Post all of them!
Do it!!
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