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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn |OT3| LFT Full Relic and DL Required

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A

Aeana

Member
Tash said:
So, we normally one shot Cadeceus and our progression team is at T5, however we do rotate our teams quote often since we need to rotate healers, dps and tanks in our two Coil groups.

Yesterday it was the first time we were two WHM healing a WAR and PAL tank. The War is somewhat new to coil but he has DL and an Allagan chest which dropped on his first run.

I healed the same setup with a Sch covering the War last week and we one shot it but yesterday it was almost impossible to keep the War as MT up after the split. We had the other (better geared and more experienced) WHM on the PAL but it still took as almost all evening to beat that stupid snake.

Anyone with experience with that? Is SCH on PAL just so much better for spike damage? MP was also a serious issue on the WHM covering him even though our dps was good.

I am seriously considering making my SCH my main since we only have one dedicated SCH and 4 WHMs right now.
Click to expand...

I've done Caduceus exclusively with PLD/WAR (never PLD/PLD), both as WHM in a WHM/WHM setup and as SCH in a SCH/WHM setup. In the 2x WHM setup, it was definitely more down to the wire with healing. If a warrior gets low on health, a white mage only has one option to shoot them back up to a healthy level, and it's on a 5 minute cooldown (well, outside of a swiftcasted cure 2 anyway). Current warrior also has limited ways to mitigate damage, which leaves WHM+WAR in a really sticky situation if the WAR is at low health. SCH is very well-suited to WAR healing, because it has lustrate which is a flat 20% heal, which heals for quite a lot on a WAR and can be used instantly 3 times in a row if you have 3 aetherflow stacks up. It also has the ability to add extra damage mitigation with adloquium shields, etc. A well-played SCH also has a nearly bottomless MP pool, although on very extended fights it can start to hurt (this should never, ever be an issue on Caduceus though). Honestly, SCH/WHM just works together much better than WHM/WHM in my opinion, especially if one of your tanks is a WAR.

I made SCH my main because of the surplus of WHMs, and while I do miss WHM, it was definitely the right decision for the better of my groups. SCH/WHM is like a dream team. Much less potential overhealing and wasted MP.
 
T

Tash

Member
Aeana said:
I've done Caduceus exclusively with PLD/WAR (never PLD/PLD), both as WHM in a WHM/WHM setup and as SCH in a SCH/WHM setup. In the 2x WHM setup, it was definitely more down to the wire with healing. If a warrior gets low on health, a white mage only has one option to shoot them back up to a healthy level, and it's on a 5 minute cooldown (well, outside of a swiftcasted cure 2 anyway). Current warrior also has limited ways to mitigate damage, which leaves WHM+WAR in a really sticky situation if the WAR is at low health. SCH is very well-suited to WAR healing, because it has lustrate which is a flat 20% heal, which heals for quite a lot on a WAR and can be used instantly 3 times in a row if you have 3 aetherflow stacks up. It also has the ability to add extra damage mitigation with adloquium shields, etc. A well-played SCH also has a nearly bottomless MP pool, although on very extended fights it can start to hurt (this should never, ever be an issue on Caduceus though). Honestly, SCH/WHM just works together much better than WHM/WHM in my opinion, especially if one of your tanks is a WAR.

I made SCH my main because of the surplus of WHMs, and while I do miss WHM, it was definitely the right decision for the better of my groups. SCH/WHM is like a dream team. Much less potential overhealing and wasted MP.
Click to expand...

That confirms what I said in a discussion yesterday. The higher HP pool a warrior has combined with less mitigation option and Lustrate scaling % wise is a big issue.

While 2.1 will catch up on this a bit I also just made a post in our forums that I will be switching my WHM to SCH. I have not that much experience with SCH yet (the usual Fate grinding to 50 and I've only done AK runs and HM Ifrit with SCH) I think it will help us in the long run. Like you, we have a surplus on WHMs and only one dedicated SCH (4:1 ratio which would change to 3:2)

Can I pick your brain a bit about SCH? Right now I still find the pet management a chore.
I have her on Obey and use embrace manually. Do you use her on steady instead to manage all her skills?

I also am unsure how much difference placing her makes. Do you place her on EVERY fight? I am also a bit unsure when to use Flare. Does it make sense on a single boss fight? I assume it's a no brainer to rotate flare, sacred soil, eye 4 and eye and virus accordingly on T4. But in T1 or T2 I would be a bit unsure how to use them (other than using them for after 3 stacks etc..)

I am also not really trusting that fairy yet :p Also wondering if it wouldn't be better to use Selene at least for T4?
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Other than Lustrate vs. Benediction, I think WHM is better suited to heal Warriors because scholars will have a harder time topping a warrior back up to full hp. Often times I can tell when I'm going to die because the healers don't have the capacity to heal more than I'm taking for more than 5-10 secs.
 
K

Kenai

Member
Tash said:
Can I pick your brain a bit about SCH? Right now I still find the pet management a chore.
I have her on Obey and use embrace manually. Do you use her on steady instead to manage all her skills?

I also am unsure how much difference placing her makes. Do you place her on EVERY fight? I am also a bit unsure when to use Flare. Does it make sense on a single boss fight? I assume it's a no brainer to rotate flare, sacred soil, eye 4 and eye and virus accordingly on T4. But in T1 or T2 I would be a bit unsure how to use them (other than using them for after 3 stacks etc..)

I am also not really trusting that fairy yet :p Also wondering if it wouldn't be better to use Selene at least for T4?
Click to expand...

I don't always use Embrace manually unless focusing on the tank exclusively, but I do tend to Place her nearly all the time unless actively moving around since the pet pathing seems to affect her A.I. if she is moving. I like to line up Obey with the longer CD timers so I can use them at more appropriate times than Eos will, but manually using Embrace at all times means re-using Obey after every single one to prevent the Guard stance, which feels like way more hassle to me than it's worth. the faeries aren't even bad at Embrace spot healing, especially if you get hit with a bit of server lag. Just make sure her Place spot is relatively safe from dangerous AoE while still being in tank range or you might find yourself short a faerie at a bad time.

Unless you're starved for MP or there's a SMN doing it already you can keep Shadowflare down most times for the slow, but you can't use SSoil at the same time so it's something to keep in mind.

Eye for an Eye doesn't always proc right away so you kinda have to plan ahead on it while Virus and Soil are more for clutch stuff. You can rotate it if it's well coordinated with your other healers and casters (who can cross class them on a longer timer) but if that isn't the case I'd save it when the tank's abilities are on CD. I tend to use SSoil a bit less because that means less Lustrates, unless my Aetherflow CD is almost up and I have charges ready but the tank is topped.

I never use Selene just because the extra AoE healing of Eos combined with her +20% to Mdefense and +20% to healing CDs feels like a much bigger deal to me than the passive Selene skill/spell speed would be, but that's coming from a healer perspective. Our DPS don't have trouble downing the turn but I am unsure how much those bonuses would matter to other classes.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
Ken said:
jbdCK8QfMSXllb.png


oh ultros
Click to expand...

I'm glad people are doing this to counter the run-sellers.
 
W

WolvenOne

Member
Note to self, if your going to keep using Mumble, find yourself a non headache inducing headset. >_<;;

Things fine for maybe an hour, then the pressure on the cartilage on my ears becomes agony. Shame I'mkinda poor rright now though.
 
T

Tash

Member
Totakeke said:
Other than Lustrate vs. Benediction, I think WHM is better suited to heal Warriors because scholars will have a harder time topping a warrior back up to full hp. Often times I can tell when I'm going to die because the healers don't have the capacity to heal more than I'm taking for more than 5-10 secs.
Click to expand...

No, absolutely not. I saw the difference first hand yesterday. The thing is that a SCH doesn't have to top them off as often as a WHM thanks to the shields and the fairy addition and IF he has to 3x Lustrate has him up MUCH faster then a Cure 2 spam with swiftcast. Not to mention, if you have time to swiftcast a Stoneskin in before a big hit. Adlo, Stoneskin combo is just ridiculous for mitigation.

WolvenOne said:
Note to self, if your going to keep using Mumble, find yourself a non headache inducing headset. >_<;;

Things fine for maybe an hour, then the pressure on the cartilage on my ears becomes agony. Shame I'mkinda poor rright now though.
Click to expand...

God yeah, I have the same issue with my G35 and TS :/

Kenai said:
I don't always use Embrace manually unless focusing on the tank exclusively, but I do tend to Place her nearly all the time unless actively moving around since the pet pathing seems to affect her A.I. if she is moving. I like to line up Obey with the longer CD timers so I can use them at more appropriate times than Eos will, but manually using Embrace at all times means re-using Obey after every single one to prevent the Guard stance, which feels like way more hassle to me than it's worth. the faeries aren't even bad at Embrace spot healing, especially if you get hit with a bit of server lag. Just make sure her Place spot is relatively safe from dangerous AoE while still being in tank range or you might find yourself short a faerie at a bad time.

Unless you're starved for MP or there's a SMN doing it already you can keep Shadowflare down most times for the slow, but you can't use SSoil at the same time so it's something to keep in mind.

Eye for an Eye doesn't always proc right away so you kinda have to plan ahead on it while Virus and Soil are more for clutch stuff. You can rotate it if it's well coordinated with your other healers and casters (who can cross class them on a longer timer) but if that isn't the case I'd save it when the tank's abilities are on CD. I tend to use SSoil a bit less because that means less Lustrates, unless my Aetherflow CD is almost up and I have charges ready but the tank is topped.

I never use Selene just because the extra AoE healing of Eos combined with her +20% to Mdefense and +20% to healing CDs feels like a much bigger deal to me than the passive Selene skill/spell speed would be, but that's coming from a healer perspective. Our DPS don't have trouble downing the turn but I am unsure how much those bonuses would matter to other classes.
Click to expand...


Thanks a lot for the input :)
So you never use her manually? You leave her on guard at all times?
I actually think the fact that Eos is still using Whispering Dawn during Obey is a bug - since Garuda doesn't use her other skills even though I use Contagion manually at all times.
Doing Steady -> Obey works fine for Garuda but not for Eos with Dawn.

I still think using her on Obey and manually cast embrace on mt intense pounding is better. If she is casting a few Dawns in between, that doesn't really matter..never had issues with CDs (well never meaning with my limited experience with Ifrit HM and AK ;p)
 
rykomatsu

rykomatsu

Member
Tash said:
So, we normally one shot Cadeceus and our progression team is at T5, however we do rotate our teams quote often since we need to rotate healers, dps and tanks in our two Coil groups.

Yesterday it was the first time we were two WHM healing a WAR and PAL tank. The War is somewhat new to coil but he has DL and an Allagan chest which dropped on his first run.

I healed the same setup with a Sch covering the War last week and we one shot it but yesterday it was almost impossible to keep the War as MT up after the split. We had the other (better geared and more experienced) WHM on the PAL but it still took as almost all evening to beat that stupid snake.

Anyone with experience with that? Is SCH on PAL just so much better for spike damage? MP was also a serious issue on the WHM covering him even though our dps was good.

I am seriously considering making my SCH my main since we only have one dedicated SCH and 4 WHMs right now.
Click to expand...

WHM here. I had a little bit of an issue with PLD up until last week. I was healing our slime bitch and tank and healing one or the other usually ended up with the other dying. I switched over to cure 2 exclusively for our slime handler and it gives me enough buffer to heal the tank with no issues anymore really. Mix in some stoneskin from time to time and this buys me enough buffer to keep our snake team up and toss an occasional heal to the WAR tank as well as the other snake team. Our SCH also cross-heals our group when possible as well.

Also, I use divine seal every CD I get. For mana, I try to use shroud early in the fight so that it's available multiple times throughout the fight rather than use it as an "oh shit" button.
 
T

Tash

Member
rykomatsu said:
WHM here. I had a little bit of an issue with PLD up until last week. I was healing our slime bitch and tank and healing one or the other usually ended up with the other dying. I switched over to cure 2 exclusively for our slime handler and it gives me enough buffer to heal the tank with no issues anymore really. Mix in some stoneskin from time to time and this buys me enough buffer to keep our snake team up and toss an occasional heal to the WAR tank as well as the other snake team. Our SCH also cross-heals our group when possible as well.

Also, I use divine seal every CD I get. For mana, I try to use shroud early in the fight so that it's available multiple times throughout the fight rather than use it as an "oh shit" button.
Click to expand...

I assume you meant WAR? Not PAL? Not having any issues with PAL thanks :)

Nevertheless, that's what the WHM on the WAR did eventually, as well. Cure 2 Spam with Bard feeding MP and rotating the CDs accordingly. But it was still super close. Even when Virusing at 3 stacks and waiting on the CDs until then.

And yeah, I always use DS on CD, it comes up fast enough anyway. I normally don't have MP issues even though I don't use shroud until after the split. DS and cure spam with Cure 2 on trigger works out fine every time.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Tash said:
No, absolutely not. I saw the difference first hand yesterday. The thing is that a SCH doesn't have to top them off as often as a WHM thanks to the shields and the fairy addition and IF he has to 3x Lustrate has him up MUCH faster then a Cure 2 spam with swiftcast. Not to mention, if you have time to swiftcast a Stoneskin in before a big hit. Adlo, Stoneskin combo is just ridiculous for mitigation.
Click to expand...

Well I said aside from Lustrate vs Benediction. But if you could spam lustrate, then sure. Stoneskin is the same whether you cast it on a warrior or a paladin. Adloqium is better on a paladin because they have better mitigation for the same amount of shield.
 
A

adixon

Member
Tash said:
I assume you meant WAR? Not PAL? Not having any issues with PAL thanks :)
Click to expand...

He probably thought you meant PAL because you wrote:

Tash said:
Anyone with experience with that? Is SCH on PAL just so much better for spike damage? MP was also a serious issue on the WHM covering him even though our dps was good.
Click to expand...

I was confused too :)

But yeah, scholars rock at single target healing. When I switch to white mage things just feel wrong (though white mages have a bunch of nice things to make up for that). Hope we never get a nerf!



Wilsongt said:
Anyone getting lag spikes tonight?
Click to expand...

My god yes, I was fine for about half an hour in coil tonight, but then later we tried to do titan with 4 healers, 2 tanks, and 2 dps (don't ask) and after a while in the titan instance the worst lag I've ever seen kicked in! I was basically just running back and forth continuously to avoid aoes, and two or three times Titan cast landslide on one side of the arena, and even though I had sprinted to the opposite side of the arena by the time it went off, I still flew off the platform -- and my position didn't even snap to where I could have been hit, I just flew off in a direction completely perpendicular to his landslide. Was particularly frustrating because we got past heart with the party before the lag kicked in and probably could have sealed the deal if I hadn't been flying all over the map at random. Will just get my white mage relic another night... maybe with more than 2 dps.


Totakeke said:
Well I said aside from Lustrate vs Benediction. But if you could spam lustrate, then sure. Stoneskin is the same whether you cast it on a warrior or a paladin. Adloqium is better on a paladin because they have better mitigation for the same amount of shield.
Click to expand...

I had that thought about Adloquium as well, that it pairs better with paladins, but I think what it comes down to is that scholar single target healing is just better, and warriors right now need a little more healing. I've been in turn 1 with at least 5 different white mages and I've always ended up switching to heal the warrior after a wipe or two.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
adixon said:
I had that thought about Adloquium as well, that it pairs better with paladins, but I think what it comes down to is that scholar single target healing is just better, and warriors right now need a little more healing. I've been in turn 1 with at least 5 different white mages and I've always ended up switching to heal the warrior after a wipe or two.
Click to expand...

Could be always because of skill reasons and nothing inherent to the class. If the fight isn't hard enough that you can easily spam lustrate when the big hits come, then sure, have the scholar heal the warrior.
 
T

tiggerkiddo

Member
I have thought about rerolling my WHM as I am not up to healing much. Healing 8 man groups is my personal nightmare ingame...I was thinking about leveling MNK since I played that in XI and was originally going to choose it in XIV but gave healing a shot. Anyone have any guides?
 
O

orion434

Member
Tomestone mats are plummeting on Ultros, like 18K now and a ton on the market. Will there be new items / equipment in 2.1 to spend Tomes on?
 
yaffi

yaffi

Member
WolvenOne said:
Note to self, if your going to keep using Mumble, find yourself a non headache inducing headset. >_<;;

Things fine for maybe an hour, then the pressure on the cartilage on my ears becomes agony. Shame I'mkinda poor rright now though.
Click to expand...

Also having to wear glasses doesn't help either. >.<
 
U

Ultrabum

Member
orion434 said:
Tomestone mats are plummeting on Ultros, like 18K now and a ton on the market. Will there be new items / equipment in 2.1 to spend Tomes on?
Click to expand...

I don't think they are adding new crafts in 2.1, so ya, the 2 star crafted items are going to be almost worthless for a patch x_x

They are currently the best non-cap locked equipment, but CT gear will be raking over that role in 2.1
 
GraveRobberX

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Ferr986 said:
So sad that YoshiP advertised those for vanity slots...

They could atleast reuse the sets from Brayflox or the lvl 15 ones...
Click to expand...

I think those are the Pharos, Copperbell HM, and Manor HM drops

I don't think we have seen ilvl80 gar from CT, I think only one was the candy cane spoony BRD from the live letter
 
N

Nohar

Member
theSlacker said:
To be honest that is the only real part of the fight. Everything before that is just filler. What server are you on?
Click to expand...

Ragnarok. I'm French, so I followed most EU people (and my former linkshell in FFXI) I know who went to that server.

Ken said:
what win
Click to expand...

Oups, sorry, it seems I misunderstood. I assumed that with you saying "all the wipes were worth it" you've been able to down Titan.
 
GraveRobberX

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Liethe said:
Did he? thought he said that specifically about Crystal Tower stuff, for those who already are doing Coil.

In any case, this model recycling is getting tiresome indeed.
Click to expand...

I just wish you could dye your fn gear, be it w/e

Dungeon green, blue, just lets us play with color to stand out

Seriously crafters stand out with their colors, running around the market board areas

Be nice to see different sets be different colors

I rather take MD as Skittles R' Us, than black & white with maybe a pinch of color to the mix
 
L

Liethe

Member
GraveRobberX said:
I just wish you could dye your fn gear, be it w/e

Dungeon green, blue, just lets us play with color to stand out

Seriously crafters stand out with their colors, running around the market board areas

Be nice to see different sets be different colors

I rather take MD as Skittles R' Us, than black & white with maybe a pinch of color to the mix
Click to expand...
yeah, agreed.

I sort of get why they don't allow it if they want certain sets to be "iconic" but at the same time that's not really a good enough reason. In the end I feel player freedom in choosing what to look like is the most important thing. If you wanna be the default Dragoon in black/purple, that's cool, but let me dye it white if I want! iDragoon.
 
F

frequency

Member
If the next set they show for DoM is yet another cowl, I'm just going to stop playing DoM and switch to my Dragoon. I really like healing but I can still have fun with that class.

Nice clothes is half the enjoyment for me in MMORPGs.
 
A

Aeana

Member
Tash said:
That confirms what I said in a discussion yesterday. The higher HP pool a warrior has combined with less mitigation option and Lustrate scaling % wise is a big issue.

While 2.1 will catch up on this a bit I also just made a post in our forums that I will be switching my WHM to SCH. I have not that much experience with SCH yet (the usual Fate grinding to 50 and I've only done AK runs and HM Ifrit with SCH) I think it will help us in the long run. Like you, we have a surplus on WHMs and only one dedicated SCH (4:1 ratio which would change to 3:2)

Can I pick your brain a bit about SCH? Right now I still find the pet management a chore.
I have her on Obey and use embrace manually. Do you use her on steady instead to manage all her skills?

I also am unsure how much difference placing her makes. Do you place her on EVERY fight? I am also a bit unsure when to use Flare. Does it make sense on a single boss fight? I assume it's a no brainer to rotate flare, sacred soil, eye 4 and eye and virus accordingly on T4. But in T1 or T2 I would be a bit unsure how to use them (other than using them for after 3 stacks etc..)

I am also not really trusting that fairy yet :p Also wondering if it wouldn't be better to use Selene at least for T4?
Click to expand...

I haven't found a way to keep Eos from using her AoE heal without mucking around with steady constantly, so I don't bother. I do place her in situations where that's beneficial, because the fairies choose their targets based on proximity first, then HP level (or so it seems). I personally almost never use shadow flare on SCH, because sacred soil is much more important to get down. My group has no problems with DPS on turn 4, so they don't really need my help on that front. I use Eos on turn 4 because of her healing potency buff, which helps a lot. I've been using Selene for phase 2 of Twintania because fey light speeds up our DPS for the short conflags, and that's generally been pretty helpful, but I generally prefer Eos for almost all content.
 
GraveRobberX

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
1d2735aedb93aec6689f83f7ab79ad62ed30e196_3.png


Taking a guess here:
Left to Right:
SCH/WHM > MNK > WAR/PLD > DRG > BRD (why do they need spikes?) > BLM/SMN

Only things that stand out are the monocle on the Roe and Oakleys on the fem Roe
Everything else looks like someone just cut/paste with new colors

Also these are going to be the new ilvl60 gear, so they look like a more refined AK gear set...

If they worked on this due to the delay of 4 weeks for 2.1... Jesus, I wonder what most ilvl 80 gear will look like
 
S

studyguy

Member
It's like none of you have been around for new gear since 1.0.
Every single non-unique piece of dungeon gear has been throwaway color swaps for common gear (lol alpine jackets and kokkoroon's mail). The only thing you should all be looking forward to is CT gear which will be the only unique designs.
 
T

Taruranto

Member
Color-swap armors were in XI too, but at least there gears were interesting due to the unique stats. Here, they don't even have that.
 
S

studyguy

Member
Ultrabum said:
I'm not going back to a subligar. Fuck crystal tower loot.
Click to expand...

More than likely these are Hakkure/Copperbells maybe Pharos loot.
CT loot will probably have FFIII stylings. I doubt the final drops in CT will be palletswaps, the progression content always tends to be unique for gear.
It's the middleman dungeons that get the swaps.
 
M

MechaX

Member
I would be more okay with the cowls if you could at least take off the hood (which I don't think you can). I can't wait to join the legions of identical DL DoM's when I eventually get a DoM class geared.
 
O

orion434

Member
Ultrabum said:
I don't think they are adding new crafts in 2.1, so ya, the 2 star crafted items are going to be almost worthless for a patch x_x

They are currently the best non-cap locked equipment, but CT gear will be raking over that role in 2.1
Click to expand...

Maybe not new crafting items, aside from possibly Furniture, but as it is now, players saving for ilv 90 gear via Mythology Tomes also get Philosophy Tomes... what else would you spend it on besides Mats to sell to crafters? I think is why the prices are tanking...
 
F

frequency

Member
MechaX said:
I would be more okay with the cowls if you could at least take off the hood (which I don't think you can). I can't wait to join the legions of identical DL DoM's when I eventually get a DoM class geared.
Click to expand...

You're right. You can't, which is my problem with them too. One of the only really distinct identifiers of your character without the camera being super close is your hair... which gets completely hidden with the stupid cowls. So you look the same as everyone else.

Minor thing for some people I guess.

Completely immersion breaking for me.
 
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