Support NeoGAF

[diablos991]

No freaking way I would recommend DF to learn such a fight. 80% you don't get past heart and the 20% people leaves after one wipe.

If you have a FC with ppl that can help or ppl that can stick together to learn it or you find a PF that sticks together to learning, or yeah you can smash your head with DF for days until you find enough that aren't a total disaster.

I meant smash your face against DF for days so you don't waste the time of your FC mates who may have better things to do than repeatedly fail a fight.

If you have enough people in a group willing to stick with it and learn the fight, more power to you. Personally, I got plenty of DF experience before even attempting the fight with FC mates or my coil static. No need to waste their time unless they have the same goal. In the end, it was "elitist" PF groups created myself (booting people after their 3rd death) that got me through the fight. Ifrit EX is excluded from this as it was a joke and I completed it through DF.

 

[Valus]

you sir, has problem with reading comprehension.

PMed you.

No freaking way I would recommend DF to learn such a fight. 80% you don't get past heart and the 20% people leaves after one wipe.

If you have a FC with ppl that can help or ppl that can stick together to learn it or you find a PF that sticks together to learning, or yeah you can smash your head with DF for days until you find enough that aren't a total disaster.

Agreed. DF is way too inconsistent and if I had to rely on PUGs I'd definitely go through party finder.

 

[Isaccard]

PMed you.



Agreed. DF is way too inconsistent and if I had to rely on PUGs I'd definitely go through party finder.

In my experience the quality of DF far outweighs that of PF. I'd take DF pugs, and the long wait times, and use PF as a last resort. If pugging is your only option

 

[MogCakes]

I've got (hopefully) 5/8ths of a party that are willing to stick it through the learning process. I was just surprised that EX mode and particularly Titan has caused such a rift in player tolerance. Probably time I started actually talking to people in town and getting to know who's who.

 

[Lucis]

In my experience the quality of DF far outweighs that of PF. I'd take DF pugs, and the long wait times, and use PF as a last resort. If pugging is your only option

A week ago when I first tried to DF titan ex, the very first pull of the very first DF we went to add phase and almost downed the adds with out anyone dieing. That run lasted a few pulls before people started bailing. the DF quality is dropping over the time as more people finish garuda ex. I have tried ifrit df once too and got to big nail phase which isn't bad...

 

[Ken]

Grats to crack for getting his egg crown.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I meant smash your face against DF for days so you don't waste the time of your FC mates who may have better things to do than repeatedly fail a fight.

If you have enough people in a group willing to stick with it and learn the fight, more power to you. Personally, I got plenty of DF experience before even attempting the fight with FC mates or my coil static. No need to waste their time unless they have the same goal. In the end, it was "elitist" PF groups created myself (booting people after their 3rd death) that got me through the fight. Ifrit EX is excluded from this as it was a joke and I completed it through DF.

What's the point of a FC if it's not to help each other? To talk about silly things and make weird lala jokes?

In my experience the quality of DF far outweighs that of PF. I'd take DF pugs, and the long wait times, and use PF as a last resort. If pugging is your only option

I should have took a screenshot of that DF failing before Titan first jump.

 

[LowParry]

So yeah...this happened a couple of nights ago.....

 

[Ken]

What's the point of a FC if it's not to help each other? To talk about silly things and make weird lala jokes?

Helping others is fine. Piggybacking or trying to get carried through content? Nope.

 

[Alucrid]

Helping others is fine. Piggybacking or trying to get carried through content? Nope.

i totally never did that

nope

never

 

[Lucis]

Helping others is fine. Piggybacking or trying to get carried through content? Nope.

Are you Qhon?

I hit 50 2 weeks and a bit ago (close to 3 now?) Qhon/Grimm helped me organize a gaf party for primal train for the first relic weapon.

The fact that happened kinda put me as a second class citizen now that people say "lol you got carried through titan HM", and that cloud has been over my head for the entirety of my level 50 experience. The fact that I didn't hit level cap and learn fight with some of the people seem to make me a baddie that needs to be carried in some people's eyes. (and i am not pointing finger to Qhon or Grimm, they have obviously been nice to me)

There was once I asked (not the complaint I posted earlier) to be brought in to some runs, and people told me "lol stop hoping to be carried".

As someone who used to be a hardcore raider in some other MMOs, I certain understand the feel some times that you don't want to "re-learn" the fight with people you know that might have trouble doing it. But I don't think I have ever acted the way some of the gaffer has shown me so far.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

The whole FC "carry" stuff just seem unproductive. FC's should want to help get it's members up to speed so there would be more people able to pick from when things are about to go down, and in FFXIV's case, when people are needed to fill out a party.

 

[diablos991]

The whole FC "carry" stuff just seem unproductive. FC's should want to help get it's members up to speed so there would be more people able to pick from when things are about to go down, and in FFXIV's case, when people are needed to fill out a party.

Carrying doesn't help anybody. I have seen people who got carried through Titan HM fail miserably at Coil or the EX fights. Those mechanics genuinely need to be learned and they exist for a reason.

I firmly believe that the carrying and HM selling is a leading cause of the Primal EX mode shitfest where maybe 1/8th of the people learned the skills necessary to complete the fight.

Doesn't impact coil that much since you have to form a group yourself. But it sure has impacted party-finder for those that don't have a static.

 

[Taruranto]

The whole FC "carry" stuff just seem unproductive. FC's should want to help get it's members up to speed so there would be more people able to pick from when things are about to go down, and in FFXIV's case, when people are needed to fill out a party.

Well, the whole game is designed to carry people (sans maybe 2 fights), it's not like you ever need to work your own stuff, so why not.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Maybe I'm just slow at finding out, but I realized this morning the trick to doing the perilous pumpkins Sylph daily is to treat it like a stealth game. Sylph wont aggro you unless they actually see you, so you just have to watch which way they're facing and run behind them.

After I saw that I tried it out and dropped off the bombs without aggroing a single mob, including the few that sit in that tiny corridor.

Everything in this game is sight aggro. You can run behind everything in the open world AFAIK.

The other fun thing you can do is switch to a gathering class and put Stealth on. I cheesed a number of the more annoying story quests this way.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Well, the whole game is designed to carry people (sans maybe 2 fights), it's not like you ever need to work your own stuff, so why not.

It's not really carrying, it just sounds like helping fill the party with FC people, and if the people seeking help haven't beat the fight with DF yet it could be a opportunity to work with the FC to work together for the betterment of the Guild. Though I never been in a Guild type thing with 500 people lol. The closest was gaf GW2 but that game seem to have big groups covered nicely with WvW.

In my ffxiv FC which has a good amount of Gaf people in it, they are way too eager to help people catch up. The people that they help don't sit there and do nothing either. They just have fun with it it seem. I had to hide because they wanted me to get past stuff when I wasn't interested in it lol. Though again, this FC isn't 500 or anywhere near it.

Carrying doesn't help anybody. I have seen people who got carried through Titan HM fail miserably at Coil or the EX fights. Those mechanics genuinely need to be learned and they exist for a reason.

I firmly believe that the carrying and HM selling is a leading cause of the Primal EX mode shitfest where maybe 1/8th of the people learned the skills necessary to complete the fight.

Doesn't impact coil that much since you have to form a group yourself. But it sure has impacted party-finder for those that don't have a static.

Saw the other quote before this one, scrolled up.

I put Carry in quotes because people seem to be confusing the joke which used the word carry as actually carrying members. It just seemed like the person wanted help and not to sit there as a dead fish while a full party of over geared people did all the work.

 

[Talaysen]

Everything in this game is sight aggro. You can run behind everything in the open world AFAIK.

The other fun thing you can do is switch to a gathering class and put Stealth on. I cheesed a number of the more annoying story quests this way.

Some enemies do have proximity aggro (morbols are the ones I remember in particular). But I think the majority is sight.

Unfortunately the sylph quests are timed so Stealth isn't an option.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I was semi carried through the Titan HM fight but otherwise have been able to pick up and progress through Coil without being a hindrance at all to my group!

In other news, Coil continues to show love to anyone in our group who is a caster. I picked up the alagan robe and circlet today...means I can hold off on some myth purchases and replace anything that isn't i90 before worrying about bis.

Twintania is a jerk!

 

[Isaccard]

I should have took a screenshot of that DF failing before Titan first jump.

I didn't say it was perfect ;P

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Darn, this alagan stuff is really bad on accuracy...gonna have to find a way to make that up now.

 

[chrono01]

Darn, this alagan stuff is really bad on accuracy...gonna have to find a way to make that up now.

The Allagan Breeches of Casting [Turn 4] is the crucial piece in a lot of end-gear BLM gear sets. Unfortunately, they elude me. They're only dropped once in around two months of Coil, and another BLM in my static got them [congrats to him!].

As for my current two sets, here they are [both factoring in Relic +1/Elder Staff as well as the Allagan weapon]:

Weapon - Relic +1/Elder Staff
Head - Sorcerer's Petasos
Chest - Sorcerer's Coat
Hands - Allagan Gloves of Casting
Waist - Allagan Rope Belt of Casting
Legs - Allagan Breeches of Casting
Feet - Allagan Boots of Casting/Sorcerer's Crakows
Neck - Hero's Necklace of Casting
Earrings - Allagan Earrings of Casting
Wrist - Hero's Bracelet of Casting
Ring # 1 - Vortex Ring of Casting
Ring # 2 - Hero's Ring of Casting

Food - Deviled Eggs

Weapon - Allagan Sceptor + Ancient Shield
Head - Sorcerer's Petasos
Chest - Allagan Tunic of Casting
Hands - Allagan Gloves of Casting [Crit]/Sorcerer's Gloves [Spell Speed]
Waist - Allagan Rope Belt of Casting [Crit]/Hero's Belt of Casting [Spell Speed]
Legs - Allagan Breeches of Casting [Crit]/Sorcerer's Tonban [Spell Speed]
Feet - Allagan Boots of Casting/Sorcerer's Crakows
Neck - Hero's Necklace of Casting [Crit]/Allagan Choker of Casting [Spell Speed]
Earrings - Allagan Earrings of Casting
Wrist - Hero's Bracelet of Casting [Crit]/Allagan Bracelet of Casting [Spell Speed]
Ring # 1 - Vortex Ring of Casting [Crit]/Allagan Ring of Casting [Spell Speed]
Ring # 2 - Hero's Ring of Casting

Food - Deviled Eggs

As you can see, I have two different sets in-mind for when I get my Allagan Sceptor + Ancient Shield, one that prioritizes Crit and the other Spell Speed. The Spell Speed one supposedly offers more DPS, but I can't help but feel the "fun" of a Crit set for seeing those massive numbers. I will likely try to obtain both, especially since so many of the armor are shared between the two. >

 

[Ken]

.

Gimme those Titan Earrings if you aren't even using them. D:

 

[Isaccard]

Crit is nice but relies too much on RNG, so I personally put Spell Speed over it

 

[Tabris]

Helping others is fine. Piggybacking or trying to get carried through content? Nope.

What do you define as being carried though?

Because I just recently hit 50 for the first time (I started playing a month ago) and I'm new and I suck right now. I ask to do things with FC, not on the expectation that I'm being carried but that I want to do things with the FC. I always apologize for sucking and being new, and letting everyone know before hand on everything I do.

But how do I not be "carried"? The only new person that has wanted to do stuff with me has been another PLD (Pelyo), so the only thing we've been able to try together was me helping with Chimera and Ultima HM. Everyone else is experienced. So my only options would be to either watch videos (which kind of ruins the point of experiencing the game), or run with DF the entire way, or join another less-experienced FC.

Luckily almost everyone I have dealt with in the FC has been super awesome and has no problem instructing me on the fight. Remiel or Renault (I believe that was his name, there's 2 characters with almost the exact same name) helped me learn the Garuda and Titan fights. Elrina, Tirazel, Sosul, etc. There's a huge amount of people.

Of course I have probably annoyed a lot of people by sucking, but the only way I can get better is to keep trying. Like I just did an AK run, and I didn't know the speed run pulls yet, and we wiped on demon wall once because I thought DPS killed DPS bee. So I apologized for how long it took (I think 20-30 mins) as I'm learning how to go through those fast... or the better word is experiencing. I have feeling Qhon was annoyed at me by how quick he left and never responding to my apologies in party chat. Or maybe he's just a quiet guy. Not sure. But I feel bad.

Anyways, long rant, point is I'm sorry for sucking and being "carried", but I want to experience everything new and learn as quick as possible, but I want to do that with FC members - and they are much better and more experienced than me.

EDIT - And I'm trying to return the favour. Any time someone asks for Garuda or Titan HM I'm there.

 

[Ken]

What do you define as being carried though?

Dying early on in the fight is a good indicator.

Basically if you can pull your own weight even if the 7 other people are experienced and well-geared, it's not a carry. Take Titan HM for example. If you're constantly dying pre-heart phase to random landslides and plumes, I really doubt you took the time to bother learning or practicing the fight and just came for a free win.

 

[Tabris]

Dying early on in the fight is a good indicator.

But I die early on with a lot of fights. My first story Titan I got pushed over the edge as I didn't know how that worked. My first Garuda HM I personally caused the party to wipe 4 times by being in the wrong spots (I would die and then learn a phase, die and then learn a second phase, die and learn a third phase). How do I avoid that when I'm learning?

EDIT - I made sure when I hit 50 to buy crafted gear and gear up enough DL pieces to be over 5000hp as that was the necessary HP I was told.

 

[Ken]

But I die early on with a lot of fights. My first story Titan I got pushed over the edge as I didn't know how that worked. My first Garuda HM I personally caused the party to wipe 4 times by being in the wrong spots (I would die and then learn a phase, die and then learn a second phase, die and learn a third phase). How do I avoid that when I'm learning?

If those parties you were in were for learning or DF then that's fine?

 

[Tabris]

Take Titan HM for example. If you're constantly dying pre-heart phase to random landslides and plumes, I really doubt you took the time to bother learning or practicing the fight and just came for a free win.

Except how do you learn without having done it? Do you not want FC members to do things with FC members? Do we have to do DF to learn the fights first before we can play with the team? Do you get how that sounds?

If those parties you were in were for learning or DF then that's fine?

But how do you do that with the FC?

EDIT - Hey Ken, what's your character name in FFXIV?

 

[chrono01]

Gimme those Titan Earrings if you aren't even using them. D:

I would, but unfortunately they are an upgrade to anything I currently have at the moment. Everything else is a...work-in-progress, but I will get there!

Oh, and they are quite fashionable. I apologize greatly, but I cannot do without them. I am sure you understand. >

Crit is nice but relies too much on RNG, so I personally put Spell Speed over it

Yeah, that's why I'd likely use the Spell Speed for serious content, and the Crit set anytime I'm feeling like something different.

I'm definitely aiming for the Spell Speed one as my primary, though.

 

[Ken]

Except how do you learn without having done it? Do you not want FC members to do things with FC members? Do we have to do DF to learn the fights first before we can play with the team? Do you get how that sounds?

But how do you do that with the FC?

EDIT - Hey Ken, what's your character name in FFXIV?

Watch videos, get other FC people interested in learning to run with you, etc.

I also don't see the problem with learning fights in DF.

 

[Alucrid]

The Allagan Breeches of Casting [Turn 4] is the crucial piece in a lot of end-gear BLM gear sets. Unfortunately, they elude. They're only dropped once in around two months of Coil, and another BLM in my satic got them [congrats to him!].

*looks in bags*
*sees unused allagan casting pants*

 

[Tabris]

Watch videos, get other FC people interested in learning to run with you, etc.

I also don't see the problem with learning fights in DF.

Except I don't want to watch videos. I want to experience it new. I don't think that's an unfair thing. And finding new players on FC is tough, as I mentioned before, only person I found was Pelyo and we're both PLD so limits what content we can do together. I have helped as many people as possible on things I can teach them like the story primals, HM's, etc. The whole point of doing things with the FC instead of DF is so I can be a part of the community and part of that is helping both ways.

I'm sorry, but it sounds like you're an elitist. You sound exactly like I was in FFXI. Play on PS2? Won't play with you. Don't know the fight? Read a strat. You missed a skill chain? Stop being carried. Need help? Play in a lower end linkshell. That's not a good attitude to have. Sure, you save time and frustration by not playing with people who are learning, but it's a bit of a dick move and I was definitely guilty of it before. Also I don't think that is an attitude that's compatible with the open nature of the GAF FC, unless I'm mistaken on the FC's purpose as a community.

Please let me know your character name and I will make sure not to inconvenience you.

 

[Ken]

If you want to experience something fresh that's fine. Just don't go in expecting a win or to get carried and this whole discussion is irrelevant. Not sure how we went from a discussion on carries to a discussion on how to foster a different type of experience in game.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Good info

I should have specified I'm SMN...but thanks for your help!

I accidentally bought a Hero's ring before noticing my awful accuracy so I may get the summoner's horn to help. At least I still have Vanya to get by. Apparently the ancient Alagans don't believe in accuracy! Ugh...can't believe I was so badly geared for Turn 4&5, feel like I let my group down by not noticing the awful accuracy.

 

[Tabris]

If you want to experience something fresh that's fine. Just don't go in expecting a win or to get carried and this whole discussion is irrelevant.

I don't expect a win (infact I'm PLD so if I fail, the party fails), but I hope for understanding that I'm learning and understanding that I'm sorry that I cause them to die. What you just said over the last couple of posts is exactly what makes us new players feel bad for trying to learn and having the failures that go with learning.

You just said "if you get knocked off by landslide or die from a plume, you're being carried". Well how else do you learn except by dieing and learning from the mistake? Except by playing your way, watching videos, playing with random strangers, and then playing with GAF once you can beat it?

Luckily almost everyone on GAF I've dealt with isn't like that, but I'll make sure not to inconvenience you. So if you see Riou Midgard, please ignore me, as I suck and I'm below you obviously to play with.

 

[Tabris]

I should have specified I'm SMN...but thanks for your help!

I accidentally bought a Hero's ring before noticing my awful accuracy so I may get the summoner's horn to help. At least I still have Vanya to get by. Apparently the ancient Alagans don't believe in accuracy! Ugh...can't believe I was so badly geared for Turn 4&5, feel like I let my group down by not noticing the awful accuracy.

What ACC do you need? 470+ right?

 

[Ken]

You just said "if you get knocked off by landslide or die from a plume, you're being carried".

Depends on the context of the party being formed. I mean, just a few weeks ago I set up a Garuda EM learning group and never really cared if people died from not hiding behind rocks or doing something silly.

Luckily almost everyone on GAF I've dealt with isn't like that, but I'll make sure not to inconvenience you. So if you see Riou Midgard, please ignore me, as I suck and I'm below you obviously to play with.

I never said that but if you want to believe that go ahead.

 

[frequency]

Leveling multiple jobs makes the world seem even smaller than it already is. I really need some new scenery... An expansion can't come soon enough.


Also, your Guild/LS/FC/Whatever is supposed to work with you during your learning phase. It makes the Guild/LS/FC/Whatever stronger in the end for it as your pool of experienced players increases and the bonds between members strengthens.
It's just a different attitude/perspective. Instead of looking at it as building your FC, some choose to look at it as them being totally awesome and amazing so they "carry" you since you're dead weight compared to how amazingly awesome they are. Though to be fair, it can be that way sometimes...
In the end, I think people should just be more careful with word choice and how they choose to describe situations.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

It seem like FFXIV may not be so FC (guild/linkshell) friendly. People don't want to deal with the fights that allow little room for error, the frustration, the time that could be lost. In the process they could be missing out on a crazy awesome PLD or whatever by not putting the rookie in to get warmed up.

So many lockouts and stuff needs to be loosened for the expansion.

For leveling I did the same thing every time. It was the fastest at the time so I couldn't really complain.

 

[Aeana]

It's often hard to accept that when stuff isn't going well, it's your own fault. But I guess if, when you are removed from the equation, the situation immediately improves, it becomes even harder to deny. Congrats to some members of my group going on to beat Ifrit EX on their first few tries in a duty finder group after we wiped to it for 3 hours. Sorry for holding you back.

 

[chrono01]

*looks in bags*
*sees unused allagan casting pants*

I should have specified I'm SMN...but thanks for your help!

I accidentally bought a Hero's ring before noticing my awful accuracy so I may get the summoner's horn to help. At least I still have Vanya to get by. Apparently the ancient Alagans don't believe in accuracy! Ugh...can't believe I was so badly geared for Turn 4&5, feel like I let my group down by not noticing the awful accuracy.

Yeah, getting accuracy-capped can be a brutal experience. It's especially worrying when one missed spell can throw off your rotation, such as when you cast Blizzard III to go from Astral Fire III to Umbral Ice III only for it not to connect and yourself not notice until after you cast another spell putting you below the MP to cast another Blizzard III spell forcing you to Transpose [if Convert and a Mana Potion aren't available] to get things as they were. ~_~

Thankfully this hasn't happened to me since I've always been super-careful not to fall below the cap [I've always used food if I needed it], but I know how painful it would be. I wish you luck in that endeavor!

 

[Kintaro]

If you are helping someone in your FC and they are brand new to the content, "carrying" shouldn't even enter into the mindset. You should check yourself.

If you help that person through the tenth time through and they are still dying at the same part? You should probably have a talk with them.

 

[Ken]

It's often hard to accept that when stuff isn't going well, it's your own fault. But I guess if, when you are removed from the equation, the situation immediately improves, it becomes even harder to deny. Congrats to some members of my group going on to beat Ifrit EX on their first few tries in a duty finder group after we wiped to it for 3 hours. Sorry for being bad.

If you are helping someone in your FC and they are brand new to the content, "carrying" shouldn't even enter into the mindset. You should check yourself.

If you help that person through the tenth time through and they are still dying at the same part? You should probably have a talk with them.

Pretty much.

 

[frequency]

The way raids are designed in this game (lockouts and the poor circle dodging encounters) does encourage a certain mindset so I can't blame people too much for having different motivations to play.

And really it probably just seems like more of an issue because the NeoGAF FC is so big that it encompasses several groups. In other MMORPGs if the guild is too slow for what you want, people kind of just leave to join a more hardcore raiding guild. So it's not like that attitude doesn't exist. It's just you don't see it as much because those people disappear and you don't have to keep hearing from them.

This is just what happens in a huge guild. You're going to have cliques forming with people that have different motivations for playing. And since everyone is in the same community, there will be some clashes. It just happens.

Though it doesn't help that the FFXIV content is kind of so light and so many people burned through so much of it so quickly. So it's harder to get into stuff as a new 50 in this than in other games. It is kind of asking a bit for people who've been clearing content for months to suddenly fail repeatedly playing with newer players in the learning phase. It's hard to fault them for that.

But there's a reason I always choose smaller guilds. The big ones don't fit with my style of playing at all.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

People need to have better attitudes in general. Don't be high and mighty just because you're pro in a game. I may be just a regular member but I won't stand for poor attitudes.

 

[BLCKATK]

WE GOT IT!

So pumped right now

 

[Jomjom]

DAMN IT! Just realized I totally forgot to get my Cactuar and Bomb earring. Have they said anything about that giving that again in the future? Like how the Lightning quest is coming back?

 

[tiggerkiddo]

WE GOT IT!

So pumped right now

Congrats to your group! What server?

 

[Ploid 3.0]

DAMN IT! Just realized I totally forgot to get my Cactuar and Bomb earring. Have they said anything about that giving that again in the future? Like how the Lightning quest is coming back?

Whoa there was a limited time loot again, are they nice to have or just visual?

 

[Ken]

WE GOT IT!

So pumped right now

Grats! We're still stuck on snakes. @_@