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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn |OT3| LFT Full Relic and DL Required
- Thread starter Kokonoe
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definition of butt hurt right there
Not really hard for me to understand, but this is my first MMO. XD
irfaanator
Banned
I still see no bard ct hat, the best hat, and where is all the allagan?
tiggerkiddo
Member
Coil hates white haired tomcats
Congrats! \(^_^)/
Please do not bring up Coil, it is a sensitive subject for Kagari and I. That vile place continues to avoid dropping a single piece of gear for either of us, and yet, we do not [and will not] give up!
I was playing with my guild earlier, trying to get my relic for my White Mage. We were doing Titan HM and a few others needed it as well. After about four attempts it became blatantly apparent that one DPS in the group was holding us back. They were dying to landslides and plumes in the first few phases of the fight. When the discussion of switching to a carry group came up, the person offered to bow out instead of actually trying to learn from their mistakes.
That kind of defeatist attitude is something I see a lot in MMORPGs. Usually from the beginners, but sometimes from people who should know better. It is the worst too. Players who fall into this mentality are holding themselves back, as well as everyone else. It's often something that elitist players tend to ignore or forget too, which can result in much arguing and mudslinging.
The player in question had worked under the assumption of "Can't do it, so I might as well give up", ignoring the fact that Titan HM is intentionally a learning experience. Designed to teach you how to get out of the stuff in the first place. A skill check. But in their mind they had convinced themselves they wouldn't get it.
Two hours later my patience had run out and I basically issued an ultimatum to my free company to get it done in the next pull or I was bowing out. An ultimatum I eventually made good on when I logged off after that pull without a relic.
That player was still dying to landslides in phase one when I left, and attempts to get them on Mumble ended with "My computer isn't good enough to run both the game and Mumble at the same time!"
You need to get real if you think 5 turns of coil is "a large chunk of the game content."
It's hilarious how mad you are.
I think you left something out of your description of the situation, because a carry group would imply that the person will probably not get the chance to learn from their mistakes anyway, because they're being carried through whether they live or die. Not disagreeing with your post as a whole though.
We did switch over to what was suppose to be an all guild carry group, instead of having two pugs. Rotated roles around here and there. It was ultimately futile because people who shouldn't have been making mistakes were, and this person wasn't learning at all and was usually dying in the first phase. Attempts to offer raid calls, get them on mumble, and give them general advice all went over their head entirely.
We did however make it past the heart phase when people weren't screwing up. It was still embarrassing, and I have a slightly lower opinion of some people in my guild now.
tiggerkiddo
Member
And there are some people who just might never learn how to do that fight or become a good enough player, no matter how many tries.
You know what?
Clearly the solution is to have the Maat RDM FFXI fight pre-2004 nerf be the first instance in the game so anyone who can't clear it on the first try gets banned and their account gets deleted immediately. No refunds. That'll teach those casuals. Get over it guys, the game simply doesn't gate content like XI, deal with it.
Clearly the solution is to have the Maat RDM FFXI fight pre-2004 nerf be the first instance in the game so anyone who can't clear it on the first try gets banned and their account gets deleted immediately. No refunds. That'll teach those casuals. Get over it guys, the game simply doesn't gate content like XI, deal with it.
irfaanator
Banned
But I hear you guys already have full i90 healers, and look, kagari is starting the arcanist quest line. Time to play scholar kagari and get that healer chest piece from coil. Bookey was looking super fly in it last night during chimera
Actually I'd say this game does have quite a bit of gated content. The relic quest itself is basically a skill gate as it teaches every role essential mechanics within the three primal fights.
Much better designed then XI's absurd content gates.
I will admit that I've fallen into similar traps at certain points. Right now, it's with Titan Extreme Mode. I'm actually reasonably certain I can manage that fight, but, I'm also reasonably convinced that I'd do plenty of Wiping before I got it.
The net result is, well, I haven't really volunteered for any Titan runs for a few days, in part, because I don't want to hold any groups back that have a good and reasonable chance of passing that fight already.
It's really frustrating, because by now I've seen most of the fight, but I've never seen beyond the first set of adds. None of the groups I've been in have been able to kill off the adds before I had three stacks.
I should actually probably try off tanking those myself, now that I think about it. I'm usually paired with PLD's, and WAR's of course have slightly higher DPS.
XI was my first MMO ever when it first released in the states when I was just starting college. Red Mage was my main job. After many hours chaining cockatrice in kuftal tunnel, beating Maat on my 3rd try after learning from the first two deaths was an MMO memory hall of fame moment. But it took me 3 tries to win it so I guess that means I'm a bad. I'll go find a bridge.
Sir Griffith
Member
I remember so many RDM mains leveling BLM or WHM to beat Maat.
Sacred Soil is an AoE though, so in some encounters its effectiveness goes up by the number of people in the bubble.
-10% on one person is most likely not worth the stack for sure, but -10% on 8 people during Geo Crush has to make it much easier for the WHM to top everyone off no?
I will admit that I've fallen into similar traps at certain points. Right now, it's with Titan Extreme Mode. I'm actually reasonably certain I can manage that fight, but, I'm also reasonably convinced that I'd do plenty of Wiping before I got it.
The net result is, well, I haven't really volunteered for any Titan runs for a few days, in part, because I don't want to hold any groups back that have a good and reasonable chance of passing that fight already. It's really frustrating, because by now I've seen most of the fight, but I've never seen beyond the first set of adds. None of the groups I've been in have been able to kill off the adds before I had three stacks.
I should actually probably try off tanking those myself, now that I think about it. I'm usually paired with PLD's, and WAR's of course have slightly higher DPS.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I admit to be short on patience at times...I don't want to attempt a fight for hours and hours because usually I know how it goes but as time goes on, my mind goes on auto pilot as I get burnt out from doing it over and over.
That's exactly what it is, appropriately gated to be completed within a reasonable amount of time. If someone asked me to jump through the types of hoops I did during XI again today then I'd tell them to get the fuck out. I love XI, but I'm not about falling into black holes of wasted time anymore.
That's far from the worst number of attempts I've heard of personally. Depending on your strat, there was some luck on landing spells on Maat.
I don't think I could ever play a game like XI again either. It was great for its time, but flawed in execution.
That said, I never want to see this game become what World of Warcraft and other MMORPGs did. Where there's no real difficulty curve at all and what is intended to be a learning experience is just a pointless grind that teaches nothing.
Yeah, everyone gets like that. Some players have extreme dedication, but for most of us we need a break to let our minds to refresh. I can slip pretty easily if I'm not being challenged and other players are making the same mistakes over and over again.
don't ever macro combo's, ever.
Well unless you're just doing easy content where dps never matters
LOL between puppy qhon and our two over zealous healers
coil time =fun time
we should just stream party chat and mumble and I think it'll be a hit
Your classes are at the right level. Simply complete all the Conjurer guild quests and you'll be offered the White Mage one right after it. No need to complete any of the Arcanist guild quests.
Alex
Member
There are no combos involved in a macro in what I wrote, though! Just utility and situational elements, my main use of macros is mostly to save cross bar space when it comes to off-GCD elements. I edited it to make it a little more clear, as it was jumbled a bit.
Shouta
Member
Well, apparently it doesn't really cut any damage from some AOEs and in most cases, reducing the damage for multiple people still isn't worth it. It's not a reactive spell you can use and you usually only have one or two people taking damage. It doesn't last long enough for folks to move around and take advantage of it and the potency of the damage cut isn't anything to write home about. It's just really underpowered in most fights.
For example, the Snake in T1 Coil would ideally be a place to use it on but he does so much damage and hits so fast that -10% really doesn't help. you're likely to have your tank die without the Lustrate ready. In the T2 ADS, it's not gonna help you with Rot and it actually is more of a liability because if someone touches another accidently while trying to use the Soil, it can screw you up, lol. It's not as helpful for the Rage method because it's better spent on keeping your MP up through Energy Drains as it only lasts a handful of the AOE (or maybe doesn't even reduce it).
Just in general SCH needs more tweaks to make it better. I mean WHM/WHM or WHM/SCH is fine but SCH/SCH, especially in AOE heavy fights is like impossible to heal, lol.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Why is Turn 2 an issue, the Rot mechanic requires a lot of juggling
I mean if people didn't use vent/mumble/teamspeak, Allagan rot would really be cumbersome
If there were PS3 users in the group would be more ridiculous
So most just use enrage method and just get the win that way and not try to take it on
If you want to feel like that special snowflake and do it the true way, go ahead no one is forcing you to do it the other way
When you have a PUG, the easy method will always win out
Most do Coil Turn 1 and 2 now w/o voice chat, cause it really isn't required
Turn 4 is where it gets a little crazy, communication is key at that point, Turn 5 lol, try w/o communication and see how it goes
I'm gonna guess when Turn 1-5 leave the weekly lockout and DF + Buffs come into play, are people gonna bitch that someone has the Allagan weapon and doesn't deserve it, just because they didn't "earn" it
I mean if people didn't use vent/mumble/teamspeak, Allagan rot would really be cumbersome
If there were PS3 users in the group would be more ridiculous
So most just use enrage method and just get the win that way and not try to take it on
If you want to feel like that special snowflake and do it the true way, go ahead no one is forcing you to do it the other way
When you have a PUG, the easy method will always win out
Most do Coil Turn 1 and 2 now w/o voice chat, cause it really isn't required
Turn 4 is where it gets a little crazy, communication is key at that point, Turn 5 lol, try w/o communication and see how it goes
I'm gonna guess when Turn 1-5 leave the weekly lockout and DF + Buffs come into play, are people gonna bitch that someone has the Allagan weapon and doesn't deserve it, just because they didn't "earn" it
It's a shame they don't let you get more specific with Macro's than the nearest second. If they'd let you get down into tenths of a second, then that'd be a perfectly valid way of keeping down the number of crossbars.
You're right though, characters lose a heck of a lot of DPS when they go with Macro's, probably a lot more than they realize. Before I knew better I had my WAR on macro's for his rotations, and it's absurd how much easier it was for me to keep enmity once I got rid of them.
Edit: I read somewhere, that a 1/10ths of a second delay, causes roughly a 2% drop in total DPS output, if everything else is equal. So, if a player is using Macro's, and as such is experiencing 6/10ths of a second delay as a result, than their total DPS is going to be 12% lower as a result.
Yeah, twelve percent more DPS could easily make a difference in many high level fights. Again though, it's a shame they don't just, let people make macro's that're accurate to the 10/th of a second. That'd be a godsend to people playing certain classes on controllers.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That's exactly the reason, they want Macro to be have their utility, but they won't let you press one button and let the game play itself.
Saves time we could better spend on Turn 4. One user can't get on Mumble anyhow, so it's a pain to coordinate. Nobody in the group is so elitist that they'd want to waste time on it after we've done it the normal way anyhow.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The question should be, "why not?"
If your static has limited play time, is easier to do enrage, avoid any possible problems and go directly to other turns. Yeah rot rotation run is faster if you one shot it, but even if you fully know the rot mechanics is still a tricky fight and other factors can easily turn the fight on a wipe. Better play it safe.
I mean there's a good number of reaons to why use enrage, but what reasons are for doing it the normal way except "challenge" (Is even challenge when you completed it several times already using rot)?
Edit: Also as a tank there's not really much a difference, tanking ADS is certainly not hard with rot. 99% of the times I wiped was because other people mistakes.
If they did T2 for several weeks the normal way, wasting hours getting down to perfection T2? Yeah, but at that point for many statics is just better using enrage.
It takes longer to do the enrage method than normal since you have to wait for the fight to time out. At this point when my group does Turn 2 we barely talk or what we are talking about is unrelated to the fight. I don't think it's about being elitist, I think people just aren't capable of doing the fight easily the normal way. That's fine.
Our group wouldn't one shot it consistently, and we have limited time as Relaxed Muscle said. We could do it the normal way and fail once or twice before we got it, or we could just do the enrage method and get it over with.
Regrettably, not everyone in our group has superhuman multitasking capabilities like I do. >.>
Mind you, I do think the enrage method is too easy. But I'm not so stubborn as to complain about doing it "right", plus it makes Turn 2 and 3 like a relaxing break before we have to do real practice on Turn 4.
Actually, what I'd like to see, is a utility that allowed people to map a rotation to a single button, without putting it onto an actual Macro.
For example. I push A to activate Heavy Swing, Push A a second time and it's Maim, push it a third time and it goes to Butchers Block, and then it default back to Heavy Swing. It'd have the button saving capabilities of using macro's, but unlike macro's wouldn't be a complete auto-pilot setup.
The only down side is that you'd lose a little utility. Sometimes when starting out Tanking, I'll use Butchers Block first, since it grants a little more initial enmity than Heavy Swing. For the most part though, that wouldn't be a big deal. It's fairly rare for Tanks to need more initial enmity than Tomo and Heavy Swing will give them.
I don't like to rely on things like this because I know they won't last, basically you put yourself in a position when they patch it out to where you go back to wiping, basically that adds additional pressure. When content can be cleared and then suddenly not cleared any more people tend to break.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
The dev team said they aren't patching the enrage method, they acknowledged it as an alternative strategy.
They aren't patching it out, SE has came out and said they are not against doing it the enrage way.
Some one back in SE office is probably laughing their ass off for how long it took the player base to find out about enrage method.
Things change.
Alex
Member
Problem is, for most things, unless you're rolling a straight static rotation that wouldn't really work without peppering a bunch of additional keys just to prop it up, which is no fun.
Expansions might get a little scary in this game for controller/console users unless they take precautions and remove some of the ability bloat that plagues hotkey MMOs as they add new things.
I think people are reading way too much into that dev comment.
Remember what YoshiP said about Warriors before 2.1?
I'd be more apt to believe they'll simply stop allowing soft enrages in future instances than go back and adjust T2. It's two months to the next patch. People just need to move on, it won't matter once echo buffs hit anyway. All this arguing over content that's quickly becoming dated is silly. Get on the treadmill, it's going to start moving soon whether you want to or not.
There would be no reason for them to do it right now, and after 2.2, there will be even less reason (less than 0? how is that even possible)
however even if they change it, no big deal, not like rot is hard, it will just be HARDER for pugs to do it. All they are adding is frustration to player base, which is definitly not a thing they want.
Dark Devices.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I think that the difference is that all the changes in Warrior were still in development so any changes compared to what we got are, somehow, normal.
But if they considered it a exploit or a problem with how the battle was designed they would have said so. In 1.X Garuda could be easily blasted just burning it with BLM then they quickly said it was a mistake in how they designed the battle and then they changed it.
Is 100% different in how they reacted now. As studyguy said this will likely affect in how they will design future content, but I don't see any reason to backtrack from these comments.
I have no idea what that is, but my justification goes beyond what the dev has said, but to a more logical standpoint why they won't do it, of course if you read that, that is.
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