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[tiggerkiddo]

Was just thinking, Yoshi-P has his work cut out for him when it comes to fixing the economy. By the time they get to it, there will be more players with high level crafting and gathering jobs, making for a potentially competitive market.

 

[MogCakes]

competition is good. It'll drive down prices for us poor folk.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

competition is good. It'll drive down prices for us poor folk.

Except what happens when you have too much competition?

 

[MogCakes]

Except what happens when you have too much competition?

Veeerrry low prices lol. And market bloat. Economics has never been an easy beast to handle in reality, nevermind an MMO.

 

[Ken]

as a pretend economics experts business man person i can say that too much competition will do something to the prices

ok see you next week

 

[GraveRobberX]

Very good read about virtual economies in MMO's

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134576/virtual_economic_theory_how_mmos_.php?print=1

MMORPGs often use MIMO as part of their content gating system. If players get, on average, 1000 gold while going from level 1 to 40, but players who "rush past" content end up with less gold, then putting a 1000g content gate at level 40 forces "rushing" players to slow down, harvest more money (possibly by doing quests they skipped) and getting "back in line" with what was intended by the developers.

There's another reason I started with the story about Asheron's Call. AC's economy did quite fine despite the absence of any market system, so why does FFXIV suffer so? It's primarily because of the sheer number of items in FFXIV and the importance of crafting in the game. In AC, there wasn't much to trade; in FFXIV, there's probably several thousand items, and 4 versions (regular, +1, +2, +3) of each.

Because of the complexity of crafting and the inter-craft dependence (it can take 16 components made by five crafters to make even a basic item) players need a rich, robust market system to exchange all these myriad items with one another. This is further reinforced by the limits to inventory space: players can only hold a tiny portion of the available items at one time, thus are forced to sell the majority of what they acquire, either to other players or to vendors.

Good stuff in there about FFXIV

 

[dcye]

You know he's talking about 1.0 there, right?

 

[tiggerkiddo]

So I have CUL and LTW at level 20. Which crafting job should I level next to 15? I know getting all of them to 15 is beneficial but which one do I go for first?

 

[cultureculture]

So I have CUL and LTW at level 20. Which crafting job should I level next to 15? I know getting all of them to 15 is beneficial but which one do I go for first?

I'm not an expert, but:
CRP for Rumination will make your life a lot easier, I think.
You already have Waste Not from LTW, so using that with Inner Quiet/Rumination will greatly extend the amount that you can do during a craft.

 

[dramatis]

Forgot how fun crafting can be. Spammed leves for a bit, will go back tomorrow and just craft everything on the list at least once for that bonus exp. Also finally got that darn allagan healing chest.

You might want to listen to what Ari has to say about crafting everything on the list.

Also, you gun for alchemist to 15 first. After that you do goldsmith to 15.

 

[orion434]

Very good read about virtual economies in MMO's

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134576/virtual_economic_theory_how_mmos_.php?print=1

Good stuff in there about FFXIV

One good part is the Money In / Money Out section. Unless players are doing non-GC Leves / Daily Beast Tribe Missions / Treasure Hunts and they Teleport Everywhere they are taking Gil out of the system and not putting enough in. Then the FC housing put the kaibosh on most of the Gil, there just isn't enough left to divide among the masses.

I do the Daily Beast Tribe missions each day even though I have max rep. I get 32,760 Gil a week from that, then I host our FC 8-man Treasure Hunt, at the minimum I get 13,536 Gil ( 8 maps, no rares ) or 94,752 Gil a week. So I pump at least 127,512 Gil into the economy each week.

Think to yourself... how much Gil do I get from the system? Selling on the Market Board is just Gil being transferred from one player to another... and Taxed!

 

[Alucrid]

and back to dark souls

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I'm not an expert, but:
CRP for Rumination will make your life a lot easier, I think.
You already have Waste Not from LTW, so using that with Inner Quiet/Rumination will greatly extend the amount that you can do during a craft.

You might want to listen to what Ari has to say about crafting everything on the list.

Also, you gun for alchemist to 15 first. After that you do goldsmith to 15.

I thankfully have been crafting everything at least once but thanks for the advice! Will probably shoot for ALC next. That should be easy to level.

And Vero, you'll be back. You always come back. Like a moth to the flame.

 

[jon bones]

You might want to listen to what Ari has to say about crafting everything on the list.

Also, you gun for alchemist to 15 first. After that you do goldsmith to 15.

Where can I find that info?

 

[WeaponKnight]

I thankfully have been crafting everything at least once but thanks for the advice!

On the contrary, don't craft anything you won't use. Only make leve items.

Make me some crafting AF dude

I can make stuff on my WVR and CRP if you want.

 

[dramatis]

Where can I find that info?

This is what Ari will tell you:

On the contrary, don't craft anything you won't use. Only make leve items.

Since Mr. Ari is the one who actually spent 80k trying to get the mats and junk to craft everything on the list. lol

 

[Tabris]

The key to craft levelling is 5 fold in my opinion:

1) Level multiple crafting classes at one time. (i.e. I levelled GSM, ARM, BSM)
2) Level the appropriate gathering class at the same time. (i.e. I levelled MIN while levelling GSM, ARM, BSM) Allows you to get free materials.
3) Take it slow. Craft 40 items, sell them on retainers.
4) Always pay for HQ Equipment and HQ Materials you don't gather yourself to HQ all items you're crafting.
5) Ensure you level all around the same time. This ensures equipment spirit bonds for materia you can use on your crafting gear to ensure HQ'ing, as well as cheaper gearing up.

Over 3-4 weeks, I was able to hit 50 on all 3, while making a profit (I probably made 200-400k off levelling all of these) and completing my crafting guide for each 3 classes.

 

[jon bones]

Appreciate all the insight, guys.

 

[Isaccard]

I can make stuff on my WVR and CRP if you want.

Yes pls

This is what Ari will tell you:

Since Mr. Ari is the one who actually spent 80k trying to get the mats and junk to craft everything on the list. lol

God damnit Drama ;_;

 

[dramatis]

If you're leveling crafting, this place is the absolute best friend. Even better if you use the Crafting List.

 

[NeOak]

I think I lost the interest to play.

Grinding CT, having to pug Coil if I feel like doing it and the Korean grind that are the EX primals.

Meh ;-;

 

[omlet]

I think I lost the interest to play.

Grinding CT, having to pug Coil if I feel like doing it and the Korean grind that are the EX primals.

Meh ;-;

Just make a coil static! All the fun of TERA statics, except you only have to deal with it once a week!

 

[NeOak]

Just make a coil static! All the fun of TERA statics, except you only have to deal with it once a week!

I was going to get into my friend's static because they need a tank, but they run too late for me.

And on the weekends my schedule is messy. I can't really commit, so its my fault there.

 

[Z3M0G]

Names are hidden (except for the person who posted the pic), but I like to spread these around in case the culprit is part of this community and gets to be shown the error of his/her ways.

I remember entering a post 30 dungeon as a Gladiator instead of a Paladin by mistake and two people giving me shit... refusing to fight as I pulled mobs. Eventually they quit, two more people joined, and we completed the dungeon. I wanted so bad to message them and thank them for leaving, but they were on different servers.

 

[Lonestar]

I had a recent problem where I had already gotten to level 30, grabbed the Warrior Job, but was still behind in the story dungeons. I hit one that level capped me back down to 27, and while I was still warrior, it "greyed out" my Flash ability, and I couldn't use it. New to the game, I didn't understand it (and neither did the people with me, who have had more time with the game).

Later, when getting to the next dungeon, thinking on this fact and worrying about it, I went into the dungeon as Marauder instead of Warrior, which was a mistake, as the level capped at 31, and would have had Flash intact. But, we managed to make it through Haukke Manor (however it's spelled), without a "proper tank" or Defiance. Made it interesting during the last boss.

 

[nubbe]

it seems pretty much impossible fail dungeons until the late 40's...

The only time I've failed a dungeon was when the healer couldn't target people in the team without running up into their face
guess he was on a PS3 and didn't know how to cycle targets

 

[King_Moc]

Names are hidden (except for the person who posted the pic), but I like to spread these around in case the culprit is part of this community and gets to be shown the error of his/her ways.

I remember entering a post 30 dungeon as a Gladiator instead of a Paladin by mistake and two people giving me shit... refusing to fight as I pulled mobs. Eventually they quit, two more people joined, and we completed the dungeon. I wanted so bad to message them and thank them for leaving, but they were on different servers.

I went into Brayflox as marauder by mistake. We couldn't even beat the first few mobs. He might be being a dick about it, but you really do need defiance post 30.

 

[omlet]

I had a recent problem where I had already gotten to level 30, grabbed the Warrior Job, but was still behind in the story dungeons. I hit one that level capped me back down to 27, and while I was still warrior, it "greyed out" my Flash ability, and I couldn't use it. New to the game, I didn't understand it (and neither did the people with me, who have had more time with the game).

Later, when getting to the next dungeon, thinking on this fact and worrying about it, I went into the dungeon as Marauder instead of Warrior, which was a mistake, as the level capped at 31, and would have had Flash intact. But, we managed to make it through Haukke Manor (however it's spelled), without a "proper tank" or Defiance. Made it interesting during the last boss.

For anyone reading and wondering, this is due to the order in which you set your cross-class abilities. The order you set them in matters because each slot of your cross-class abilities is unlocked at certain levels left to right, lowest to highest. When you are level-capped below what your actual level, your cross-class skills get "locked" (unusable) from right to left.

So basically, set your cross-class skills in order of most important to least important so that when you're level-restricted in a dungeon you will have the most important thing(s) available. If Flash is the first (leftmost) cross-class skill you have set, then it will be available even if you're in the lowest level dungeons (since IIRC you get your first cross-class skill slot at level 10).

 

[nubbe]

For anyone reading and wondering, this is due to the order in which you set your cross-class abilities. The order you set them in matters because each slot of your cross-class abilities is unlocked at certain levels left to right, lowest to highest. When you are level-capped below what your actual level, your cross-class skills get "locked" (unusable) from right to left.

So basically, set your cross-class skills in order of most important to least important so that when you're level-restricted in a dungeon you will have the most important thing(s) available. If Flash is the first (leftmost) cross-class skill you have set, then it will be available even if you're in the lowest level dungeons (since IIRC you get your first cross-class skill slot at level 10).

Indeed
you get the first one at 1, second at 10, third at 15 or so

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Names are hidden (except for the person who posted the pic), but I like to spread these around in case the culprit is part of this community and gets to be shown the error of his/her ways.

I remember entering a post 30 dungeon as a Gladiator instead of a Paladin by mistake and two people giving me shit... refusing to fight as I pulled mobs. Eventually they quit, two more people joined, and we completed the dungeon. I wanted so bad to message them and thank them for leaving, but they were on different servers.

TBH, Jobs can make a good difference on Brayflox, not only because abilities like Defiance, but also because the job gives a good boost to VIT stat. So a GLD/MRD with not so good equipment and badly stat allocation (or wrong gear decisions like STR accesories) and you'll have the healer having to spam Cure II.

I don't know the actual HP of that MRD, but I found enough of these to know the run is compromised. I remember one GLD 34 which barely had as much HP as me (MNK lvl 33)

 

[djcatskratch]

I had a recent problem where I had already gotten to level 30, grabbed the Warrior Job, but was still behind in the story dungeons. I hit one that level capped me back down to 27, and while I was still warrior, it "greyed out" my Flash ability, and I couldn't use it. New to the game, I didn't understand it (and neither did the people with me, who have had more time with the game).

Later, when getting to the next dungeon, thinking on this fact and worrying about it, I went into the dungeon as Marauder instead of Warrior, which was a mistake, as the level capped at 31, and would have had Flash intact. But, we managed to make it through Haukke Manor (however it's spelled), without a "proper tank" or Defiance. Made it interesting during the last boss.

I was there for that, we still did great! If everyone works together, we'll make it through almost anything haha.

 

[omlet]

TBH, Jobs can make a good difference on Brayflox, not only because abilities like Defiance, but also because the job gives a good boost to VIT stat. So a GLD/MRD with not so good equipment and badly stat allocation (or wrong gear decisions like STR accesories) and you'll have the healer having to spam Cure II.

I don't know the actual HP of that MRD, but I found enough of these to know the run is compromised.

Certainly by "error of his/her ways" he meant going into the dungeon without the right primary class/job skills that the dungeon is tuned to expect you to have and use, right??

 

[Zalasta]

I think one way to fix the economy is to bring back specialization in crafting and gathering, like you can only pick one or two to master. Need to limit the number of people that can have access to items to increase the demand.

Also, should reintroduce recipes that require sub-crafts to make (such as 50 leather, 40 weaver and 40 goldsmith).

 

[omlet]

I think one way to fix the economy is to bring back specialization in crafting and gathering, like you can only pick one or two to master. Need to limit the number of people that can have access to items to increase the demand.

They could do this going forward but it would really go against the spirit of the game. Also, with how easy it is to level crafting, you could just make specialized alts for stuff you needed. The main culprit is not how crafting works as much as it's the speed and volume with which materials are brought into circulation (specifically from gathering).

Also, should reintroduce recipes that require sub-crafts to make (such as 50 leather, 40 weaver and 40 goldsmith).

Kind of pointless because many recipes already require ingredients made by crafts other than the one that makes the finished product. This would also just cause more people to level more crafts which is what you're trying to avoid, isn't it?

 

[Number45]

it seems pretty much impossible fail dungeons until the late 40's...

Tell me about it. Died (entirely my fault, unnecessary risk) during the second split of the Ire on Copperbell and the team finished off without me. And I was tank.

As payback (I guess) they ignored the tactics for the final boss and failed to burn him down quick enough.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

it seems pretty much impossible fail dungeons until the late 40's...

The only time I've failed a dungeon was when the healer couldn't target people in the team without running up into their face
guess he was on a PS3 and didn't know how to cycle targets

Qarn wasn't exactly easy before nerf.

I failed it, because we were 4 ppl doing it the first time. I have to say it was very fun trying to figure the mechanics.

 

[Lonestar]

For anyone reading and wondering, this is due to the order in which you set your cross-class abilities. The order you set them in matters because each slot of your cross-class abilities is unlocked at certain levels left to right, lowest to highest. When you are level-capped below what your actual level, your cross-class skills get "locked" (unusable) from right to left.

So basically, set your cross-class skills in order of most important to least important so that when you're level-restricted in a dungeon you will have the most important thing(s) available. If Flash is the first (leftmost) cross-class skill you have set, then it will be available even if you're in the lowest level dungeons (since IIRC you get your first cross-class skill slot at level 10).

That both makes sense, and is incredibly stupid. I remember looking at the ability screen, and not seeing an obvious hint that "this is in the wrong place." It still showed all 3 spots (that I had at the time and still only have, I think). Would have been better to display only 2, giving me a solid idea that I no longer had the ability available, and could re-adjust the spots available to have it.

About the economy: Would it help if there were no more NPC's that sell the lower level crafting items cheaply? It now comes down to "do I go out and mine/gather a bunch of stuff" or just buy a boatload of 2 gil items from the NPC store? Could increase pricing on gathering stacks on the market board.

 

[omlet]

That both makes sense, and is incredibly stupid. I remember looking at the ability screen, and not seeing an obvious hint that "this is in the wrong place." It still showed all 3 spots (that I had at the time and still only have, I think). Would have been better to display only 2, giving me a solid idea that I no longer had the ability available, and could re-adjust the spots available to have it.

It's not really a stupid way of having skills work, it's just that the skill setting interface really needs something like "available while level X and up" or something so when setting them you know. The screen doesn't explain this so it can be confusing! It confused me at first, too, back around beta/launch, then when I looked at my window I quickly noticed the relation between which skills were locked and where they were in order on the cross-class list.

 

[Bomber Bob]

it seems pretty much impossible fail dungeons until the late 40's...

I failed sastasha dr once :'(

 

[Wilsongt]

I remember failing dungeons when I first started... Or, at least wiping a couple of times before completing it...

Those days are such a memory... Now all dungeons are easy as piss, though Brayflox and Cutter's Cry give me a run for my money as a WHM.

 

[frequency]

I healed Jobless people just fine in Brayflox. I had to do a little more work than usual but anyone who has played a healer knows how little healing you actually do up to about Qarn so it wasn't a big deal.

 

[BadRNG]

I went into Brayflox as marauder by mistake. We couldn't even beat the first few mobs. He might be being a dick about it, but you really do need defiance post 30.

If you couldn't beat the first few mobs either the healer or tank were massively undergeared/doing something very basic wrong(cleric stance?). Under 40 content is clearly designed to be doable without jobs. The proof of this is in PLD, who doesn't actually get it's tank stance until 40.

Certainly jobs makes things easier, but I wouldn't say it's required, and definitely think people overreact when they see a jobless person in mid level dungeons.

 

[King_Moc]

If you couldn't beat the first few mobs either the healer or tank were massively undergeared/doing something very basic wrong(cleric stance?). Under 40 content is clearly designed to be doable without jobs. The proof of this is in PLD, who doesn't actually get it's tank stance until 40.

Certainly jobs makes things easier, but I wouldn't say it's required, and definitely think people overreact when they see a jobless person in mid level dungeons.

It was me, and i was absolutely fine in there once i'd quit and changed jobs. I just couldn't hold hate on anything. Never really had a problem with that at any other point in the game.

 

[WolvenOne]

Tanked Brayflox a few times as a Gladiator during the Beta. Unless they made it more difficult afterward, (doesn't feel like it,) going in without a job doesn't seem like a big deal.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Pld doesn't make much of a difference early because unlike War you don'tget Shield Oath right off the bat.

The biggest difference is the stats you get from the job change.

 

[WolvenOne]

Anyhow, really wish I'd gotten a screenshot of this. XD

Late last night while in Mor Dhona, somebody asked me if I'd tank Titan EM for them. I agreed, and then proceeded to engage in one of the most dubious one-shots I'd ever witnessed. The party got through the final phase okay, but lost of couple members early when it started repeating. Well, once we lost a few, the rest started dropping like flies, until we'd lost both healers and subsequently the main tank.

Once that happened, without thinking I popped every cool-down I had, then popped Holmgang and Berserk when it became obvious that wouldn't be enough. Low and behold, just as I started resigning myself to having to run a second time, Titan finally went plop, with only myself and a single DPS still alive on the board, and I was down to a single HP to boot. XD

The second run went a little better, more people stayed alive til the end. XD

Moral of the story is that Holmgang isn't useless, I guess. XD

 

[devious.one]

The culprit for most of the Brayflox healing issues I've witnessed is Cure II. New WHMs at that level are just getting it so they don't really understand how to use it yet so they go about spamming it thinking it's supposed to completely replace the original Cure, which in turn leads mana issues.

 

[theSlacker]

The culprit for most of the Brayflox healing issues I've witnessed is Cure II. New WHMs at that level are just getting it so they don't really understand how to use it yet so they go about spamming it thinking it's supposed to completely replace the original Cure, which in turn leads mana issues.

Seems the first boss is a good test of mana management. When I went in there as healer right at the level it allowed I would run out or come close to it on that boss depending on how good the procs from cure were. Then never had a problem the rest of the instance. Back in the beta when there were no jobs I remember the healer running out there and having to wing it on like every run.

 

[Wilsongt]

The culprit for most of the Brayflox healing issues I've witnessed is Cure II. New WHMs at that level are just getting it so they don't really understand how to use it yet so they go about spamming it thinking it's supposed to completely replace the original Cure, which in turn leads mana issues.

In my case, going in the first time as a WHM I didn't have any problems until the final boss. That was because the tank didn't position the boss correctly, didn't move out of the line of sight attacks, and kept moving the boss to sit inside of the poison. Newbie tank mistake. The second time I ran it, I had no problems.

For Cutter's cry, the first time I ran it, the tank pulled almost up to ten mobs sometimes and kept taking tons of damage. The second time I ran it, the tank was a bit more aware and didn't try to pull nearly as many mobs.

I quickly learned to begin rotating between Stoneskin and Cure 1 to mitigate damage for the second run, though.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

The culprit for most of the Brayflox healing issues I've witnessed is Cure II. New WHMs at that level are just getting it so they don't really understand how to use it yet so they go about spamming it thinking it's supposed to completely replace the original Cure, which in turn leads mana issues.

Ahhh yes, I remember those days...