Spiritreaver
Member
Why are you all so passive-aggressive? Geez, lol.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
Oh, that's easy.
Because there are other aspects of this game that are appealing enough to make the game worth playing.
Personally, I'm a big aesthetics guy and the sheer style of FFXIV was enough to get me to play it for a few months.
So...
What I would like is for them to set AV to sync to 50 instead of 49. I mean the level 59 dungeon doesn't sync so you're at 60 in it, would be great if they did something similar to AV so we get our level 50 skills
AV is a lv 47 or 48 dungeon though (don't remember exactly), so makes sense for it to be synced a lv or two above that.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I think something is agitating people today. Aside from Mahou coming back, the last few pages have been pretty vicious.
I know but it's the final pre-50 dungeon (and was the last on LLDR until the new dungeons came in) plus being sync'd to 49 feels like a kick in the nuts
Who cares about lesser MMO.
You should talk about WoW.
WoW is a story driven MMO as well. Even the smallest dungeon plays an important overall lore to the big raid instance.
And some of the biggest big-bad fights allow you fight with that universe lore-hero, not some random adventurer with big cat ears and wearing a pink dress.
With how heavy the story is, I honestly doubt that they'll story lock the next major expac. We dont really have anywhere in Eorzea to go too other then the Garlean Empire, which I doubt we're going to invade unless something is invading them
But then again, we could have something like a grind from 1-70 in the next expac, going to the new area, and for those who havent played, maybe a short abridged video for every major story patch.
But then again, we could have something like a grind from 1-70 in the next expac, going to the new area, and for those who havent played, maybe a short abridged video for every major story patch.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I know but it's the final pre-50 dungeon (and was the last on LLDR until the new dungeons came in) plus being sync'd to 49 feels like a kick in the nuts
Hate it when I have to do AV for relic stuff or roulette, but mechanically it's still fairly simple. Only time it really drags is if DPS is slacking or the healer forgets to love themselves too lol
That'd be a looooooooot of video.
Do you really think the only thing this game has going for it is it's story? There's a lot to like about this game that isn't the MSQ.
You guys are aware that hitting escape skips cutscenes right? It's entirely possible to play through all of 2.0 and 3.0 without becoming invested in the story at all.
Or like what happened to me today.
Tank pulls some mobs and forgets about patrols.
And after the first boss
Tank pulls whole room and his hp goes down faster than most tanks I see while at the same time the healer is taking a lot of time between heals. Not a good combination.
Alas, these things happen. I just wish I had the 3rd stage of my opener combo (chaos thrust) and my awesome AoE jump (Dragonfire dive). ;_;
Why oh why are we bringing WoW into this? The story style is completely different, as well as the manner in which the player character is portrayed.
Same genre, same story driven theme, same point/click gameplay, subs based, hugely successful, and the true difference: don't lock out expansion for people.
If you were a MMO company CEO, don't you want to model and compare yourself against your top competitor?
It is always good to know how successful you are, no?
I bet you could condense the 2.1 and up stories to like a 1-2 hour video detailing the important things, it would be tough, but it would probably be way more appealing to others who dont want to go through all the story quests. there's 20-30 hours of 2.X up at just level 50 that has some pretty large lulls and filler in it.
It'll be interesting to see, but it would make sense if we went to a different continent for there to be level 1 adventurers just starting there.
The most important thing about the crafting and gathering quests are the rewards. You're overemphasizing the importance of those quests in relation to the actual content. The story in those quests ain't helping you figure out crafting rotations, timing of hidden nodes, and navigating the economy. Those quests contribute very little to the crafting and gathering experience. People are acting like the story is the only thing in this game and that everybody that likes this game has to like the story.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Yep, tank pulls can make a big difference there too. I usually try to take the path of least resistance, especially if everyone is already 50 anyway.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
So weird I checked this thread and saw this convo. I had someone say the exact same thing to me in fc chat today. I said something to the effect of "almost 60, just gotta skip all these cutscenes" and someone said "why would you skip what you paid for?"
I didn't pay for mmo stories lol. I know exactly what I'm paying for when I play this, or WoW, or Tera, or KOTOR, or whicever. It's the "dance." Each mmo has an inherent playstyle, just like a fighting game. It's fun to learn the system, do some fun stuff in it, and then move on to the next one. Sometimes you go back to a classic like SF4 after messing around in KI and MKX. But just because this game takes itself more seriously in the story department doesn't mean I have to pay attention to it. All of that is absolutely meaningless unless it affects the dance. It doesn't. So skip, skip, skip.
I didn't pay for mmo stories lol. I know exactly what I'm paying for when I play this, or WoW, or Tera, or KOTOR, or whicever. It's the "dance." Each mmo has an inherent playstyle, just like a fighting game. It's fun to learn the system, do some fun stuff in it, and then move on to the next one. Sometimes you go back to a classic like SF4 after messing around in KI and MKX. But just because this game takes itself more seriously in the story department doesn't mean I have to pay attention to it. All of that is absolutely meaningless unless it affects the dance. It doesn't. So skip, skip, skip.
Ok then, lets talk about WoW. Lets talk about how every MMO that set out to emulate its success has failed, generally miserably and how most successful MMO's do so because they differentiate themselves from WoW. So you'll forgive me if I don't find much merit in the idea that the game should be "more like WoW". I disagree that WoW is a story driven MMO, even if I did agree it clearly...actually wait, I'll save myself some time
The idea that the smallest dungeons are important to the overall lore is, well, laughable to me to be honest. I'm also not sure what your last comment refers to, in WoW you fight relative non-entities or comic relief dungeon bosses, you also fight extremely important characters - exactly like you do in FFXIV.
You don't get it. You know how when you buy your ticket for the latest Marvel movie, and the box office guy asks you if you've seen all the previous Marvel movies and if you say no you have to watch all eleven of them in a private theater before being allowed to see the movie you paid for? It's just like that.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Having players go through 2.0 to get to 4.0 seems silly in the future so here's what I would do:
**The previous expansion will still be a requirement so new players will have to go through 3.0 to get to 4.0 and there's plenty of benefits for this:
-Me and other veterans wouldn't need to deal with new players that don't know a single thing about their class,rotation,and general dungeon mechanics when we boot up 4.0
-Square-Enix doesn't have to make 4.0 content easy to ease new players in the dungeon mechanics that would have skipped straight into 4.0
-Depending on a player's gaming habits Square-Enix may be able to squeeze an extra Month or two of Subscription Fees by forcing New Players to go through old content so they get more revenue.
**All new Jobs/Classes in 4.0 can be accessed and played as you play in 3.0:
For example let's say they add a Red Mage in 4.0 and they make that accessible to 3.0 Brand new players. Lore wise they can make it so a group of Red Mages are on a mission/erand on Ishgard and will help you learn new Red Mage skills if you help them in their endeavours but once you hit Lv.60 theu say the have to return to home base and you would need to travel to "Red Mage HQ" in 4.0 to learn the new Skills from Lv.60-70
*****I would reward players who stuck around to do old content for example:
The Relic Weapon in 4.0 will have 2 different Models (Probably an EX version).
Model A would be the "Base Model" that any player can get in 4.0 without putting any prior time or effort.
Model B would have an alternate look or color pallet and slightly better stats tham Model A but require you to convert a Zeta Weapon from 2.0 to a Relic Weapon in 3.0 and THAN converted again to the Relic Weapon in 4.0
This is my take on how I would handle a future 4.0 launch.
**The previous expansion will still be a requirement so new players will have to go through 3.0 to get to 4.0 and there's plenty of benefits for this:
-Me and other veterans wouldn't need to deal with new players that don't know a single thing about their class,rotation,and general dungeon mechanics when we boot up 4.0
-Square-Enix doesn't have to make 4.0 content easy to ease new players in the dungeon mechanics that would have skipped straight into 4.0
-Depending on a player's gaming habits Square-Enix may be able to squeeze an extra Month or two of Subscription Fees by forcing New Players to go through old content so they get more revenue.
**All new Jobs/Classes in 4.0 can be accessed and played as you play in 3.0:
For example let's say they add a Red Mage in 4.0 and they make that accessible to 3.0 Brand new players. Lore wise they can make it so a group of Red Mages are on a mission/erand on Ishgard and will help you learn new Red Mage skills if you help them in their endeavours but once you hit Lv.60 theu say the have to return to home base and you would need to travel to "Red Mage HQ" in 4.0 to learn the new Skills from Lv.60-70
*****I would reward players who stuck around to do old content for example:
The Relic Weapon in 4.0 will have 2 different Models (Probably an EX version).
Model A would be the "Base Model" that any player can get in 4.0 without putting any prior time or effort.
Model B would have an alternate look or color pallet and slightly better stats tham Model A but require you to convert a Zeta Weapon from 2.0 to a Relic Weapon in 3.0 and THAN converted again to the Relic Weapon in 4.0
This is my take on how I would handle a future 4.0 launch.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
I still don't get the argument that WoW isn't story heavy. It's absolutely drenched in lore and story. It just doesn't follow an MSQ style of linear progression. It gives you bookmarks or chapter ends of the MSQ, but how you get to them is totally up to you. Still, once you hit the end game stuff you are constantly pushing the story forward with plenty of dialogue and cutscenes. Not to the degree of FF14, but c'mon now, WoW is pretty fucking story heavy.
Er, I'm not addressing at all HW's content lock. Don't care about that(though it sort of makes sense for the first xpac). I was focusing on the story aspect of the convo.
Er, I'm not addressing at all HW's content lock. Don't care about that(though it sort of makes sense for the first xpac). I was focusing on the story aspect of the convo.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Pants are overrated
I'm not "acting" like anything, I'm simply saying that the narrative is one of the primary focuses of the game, one of its selling points and one of the ways it differentiates itself from its competitors. That's it. I neither require, nor care, if other people like the story, I just think its disingenuous to pretend like its central place and importance is some kind of surprise. Or to make provably false statements that the majority of content in the game is un-related to story. Whether the crafting stories are important to the experience or not (and their importance is subjective, I quite enjoyed the WVR and ALC ones and didnt care about the rewards) is irrelevant, they are still related to story. I certainly dont think that anyone who likes the game has to like or make time for the story, or that they should play something else if they find other elements of the game engaging. I do think they should acknowledge the central role of story in the game though.
Because FF14 is a MMO...it doesn't even make sense when you realize all those adventurers that fought with you are also the WoL.
In WoW, when you killed Illidian, you were recognized as band of heroes but that universe lore-hero was the one who was truly recognized in killing him.
But that is just me when I see the celebration scene and see that my WoL is surrounded by bunch of WoL.
Maybe our adventurer is a crazy person and we are really not the WoL, but out of the thousand of players that play this game and met during DF, one of them might be the true WoL.
Hmm... fair point.
It's just something that seems to happen from time-to-time.
The final boss of WoD is a character that had no build up within the expansion, and anybody who didn't play Warcraft 3 would have no clue who he is. WoW has been story heavy in the past, but it currently is not. It still has story, but I would say it's the bare minimum.
Lorewise, im pretty sure that the other people you fight with are just "adventurers." They are called as such, but your character is the WoL because you did "everything"
But that's always been a struggle with MMO storyline, making your character seem important to have a storyline while there's hundreds of other important special snowflakes running around
The game makes it, generally explicitly, clear that your character is the only warrior of light, for battles which require multiple people they refer to them as fellow adventurers (there is an adventurers guild after all). The story being told by the game is the story of your character, the warrior of light. The game works hard to make your character central to the narrative and the NPC's (all those character and world building "filler quests" people whinge about - though they could do with trimming some). Which I much prefer to WoW's "Congratulations Generic Hero #345, Oh wait this NPC the writers in love with actually beat that guy"
irfaanator
Banned
rip
Story driven game where the main character is not the main focus of the story. You're playing in the world of the lore-characters. You're the nameless peon that gets sent to do their dirty work. You don't actually get to kill many of the large boss or villain characters, that's reserved for "The Real Heroes". Just like when you kill the Lich King... oh wait. Or when you kill Deathwing... Oh wait. Or when you kill Hellscream, oh wait.
Furthermore, WoW took it a step further and let people automatically level up for their content, and look how that turned out.
My idea for a compromise? Let people play the new jobs at level 1. Let anyone who had a character at level 50 and completed the story start the new jobs at 30 as it is now.
Make the story quests the best source of xp from 1-50.
Its not that different from playing Burning Crusade as a first timer, or playing Lich King as anything other than a DK at start. You still had to level before you could get to later content.
Azzurri
Member
Amazing how people have changed their mind on the gating issue for new and returning players. It just hurts SE numbers not allowing people how they want to play their way to the new stuff. Especially gating the new classes.
They should not gate you by MSQ but by the level of the new X-pac.
They should not gate you by MSQ but by the level of the new X-pac.
Have any of the people arguing in favor of a ++==***~~COMPLETELY OPTIONAL~~***==++ story skip to get to the newest content actually said that they don't think the story is a "primary focus" of the game?
It's certainly a big part of the game, I just don't know how important to the game it is because a ton of other people still managed to kill Bahamut and do all the 2.1-2.55 pre-Ishgard stuff without watching any cutscenes.
But it wouldnt make sense lore wise that the Ishgardians would let you into their city.
There's advantages and disadvantages of both styles, I think a lot of people really enjoy the story being added in in really good ways, but obviously new people are going to have a hard time getting through all of the 50 quests to understand that story
If we're talking long term, then it will be a problem, but I dont think that will happen.
You know who typically doesn't give a shit about "lore?" People who skip cutscenes in a story focused game. Who cares if it doesn't make sense?
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Final boss of WoD? I raided through BRF before stopping for 14. The xpac isn't done yet, it just came out. We all know what the end showdown will be. Do you think Alexander is going to be the final boss of HW lol?
Here is an interesting question. Would that optional story skip also give you (let's pretend we had one for 3.0) ilvl 110 - 115ish gear for both your right and left side + weapon? Since you're expected to be of a certain strength before doing any 3.0 stuff.
Because people were already laughing at story quests in 3.0 giving high quality high level gear out like nothing. I could see the same and maybe some rage over people getting handed stuff like that for using an optional skip story npc.
But eh, I guess damned if you do, damned if you don't. You'll never please everyone.
Complaining about that is very much akin to complaining about any repeatable content not making sense within the context of the story.
Or level sync not making sense, or all sorts of other things. Narrative is always going to require a certain suspension of disbelief to work in a game like this. To dismiss all of that because you don't wish to extend that disbelief, kinda defeats a large portion of the purpose of the genre.
IE: to immerse players in a different setting and or story, the R in mmorpg. I do realize that this isn't the sole reason to play, but still.
Well, haven't we had reviewers skip cutscenes in games and then dock the story? I mean, I wouldn't put it past someone to crap on a story for a game if they never even payed attention to it.
Azzurri
Member
I get what you're saying, but people don't care about the story, most people play mmo's for the mechanics and the community. A story is just an added bonus if it's good.
If SE keeps doing this, their numbers won't be so good.
Very big generalization there.
Have you spoken to most people? Do you have a spreadsheet with all the answers of the 3 - 4m people? May I see it?
Just curious
You should decorate your text more, I find it hard to figure out what you're getting at. You're presenting the, lets call it the pro-skip side, as having presented a unified argument, it has not (nor has the anti-skip or radical leftist we dont care about the skip sides). You've generally explicitly outlined the skip as optional, others have not. Similarly the faux-shock and bewilderment that the game story-locked content (despite doing so in every major patch to date) generally carried an implicit denial that the story was a primary focus of the game. Perhaps someone said it explicitly, but I doubt it as it would be sort of a weird thing to say. Much as the last sentence was bordering on tinfoil hat weird to write. So I'll bow out of the discussion here I think.
"I dont know how important story is to the game because people skipped all this story content", the existence of the story content speaks to its importance to the game, skipping it only speaks to its importance to the individual.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Very big generalization there.
Have you spoken to most people? Do you have a spreadsheet with all the answers of the 3 - 4m people? May I see it?
Just curious
I participated in his survey and put a big X in the "DO NOT GIVE A FUCK" column.
Who cares?
I don't get what you're trying to say. You understand that the lack of a story skip doesn't somehow force people into paying attention to the story, right? The only difference in experience between a FFXIV with a skip option and the FFXIV we have right now is that a bunch of people won't be forced into five hours of running back and forth and spamming escape.
So what you're saying is you don't really have a good reason for not putting a optional story skip feature in the game?
Azzurri
Member
Very big generalization there.
Have you spoken to most people? Do you have a spreadsheet with all the answers of the 3 - 4m people? May I see it?
Just curious
It's anecdotal evidence but from the people I've played with from this game to EQ people just speed though the quest text or skip cut scenes just to hit level cap.
Just look at twitch, 95% of the streamers just skip through everything. Just google it and read people response, most people skip text quests or the cut scenes.
Such is the way of the fulltime employee.
"people dont play WoW for the story" =/= People dont play MMO's for the story
also a lot of non mmo players really like this game, and a lot of Final Fantasy really like this game because it has an actual storyline that people care about in it.
just because you and your friends dont care doesnt mean others dont.
Like others have said, there's all this talk about the "future" of this game, but what we do know is this game is massively successful for Square, will continue to get content in big ways, and just released an incredibly popular and really well done expansion that has seen the game rise a lot in population (or at least that i've noticed) We can sit here and talk all we want about the future not lending itself to this style of MMO game design, but we dont even know what the next expansion will be or how it will be made. Square may very well put out a brand new continent for lvl 1 adventurers to start a new story, Square may also make people play a gigantic story mode. No one really knows
Rose of Eternity
Banned
This is how I've played these games since like.. Star Wars Galaxies? I played FF11 the same way, EQ2, WoW, etc. I'm honestly shocked when people don't play it like this. I remember leveling with a guy in WoW once and me being like why..aren't you moving? His response "I'm reading the quest." I actually had to pick my mouth up off the floor, hadn't heard that in years.
Because the story is bad.
I can't believe we have to collect the crystals twice to gain back our blessing.
Are they going to repeat this non-sense in 4.0?