I wasn't talking realism, I was talking from a mechanics point of view. Forcing people to be careful about superfluous motion in exchange for higher DPS makes sense. However, people need to be able to effectively stance dance or whatnot in fights where you have to move a lot, and it sounds like Bards can't do that very well. If they cannot stance dance, then the penalty for moving needs to be smaller.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
I wasn't talking realism, I was talking from a mechanics point of view. Forcing people to be careful about superfluous motion in exchange for higher DPS makes sense. However, people need to be able to effectively stance dance or whatnot in fights where you have to move a lot, and it sounds like Bards can't do that very well. If they cannot stance dance, then the penalty for moving needs to be smaller.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Well it's not the best solution but it's all I got at this point. If you noticed Square-Enix is more content with just making number adjustments instead of implementing actual changes (I mean FFS it took the TWO YEARS to change the Bard's Limit Break to a DPS one).
Nope, you only get (worthless) poétics.
Depends on fights. I think if they do movement stuff, SMN wins out. If they're more stationary, they're a lot closer. If there's timed burst phases (Ravana EX, for instance), BLM might win?
That required new animations, which aren't cheap. Plus by saving it for the expansion that gave them something new to trumpet for said expansion, there's a reason why the new LB's ended up in promotional videos.
As for adjusting CM and Prea, that isn't easy either, but again it's probably necessary. They cannot just keep adding incentives for people to roulette it.
It's not going to matter. 4.0 story won't require 2.x to be completed. Everyone save this post right now. We can take bets and everything if you want.
The Elite
BOSS
I believe this to be true.
Expansions are good opportunities for new players to jump on due to the hype. I imagine some content will be locked to people who have completed 3.0 (story, obviously) but there will be plenty available to new pople as well.
Nah. Bad fit for a narrative driven game, a ton of events and characters won't make sense without the context of having gone through the MSQ upto X point. Just make it easier to power through the earlier content and bam, done. I mean, just a quick example. Imagine you skipped all 2.0 stuff and immediately went into Heavensward story. All this stuff with the Scions being MIA would mean nothing to you, recurring characters reappearing would have zero impact, etc etc etc.
This might work for WoW, but from what I've seen WoW doesn't have nearly as much of a story going on. What you need to know to appreciate things, "can," be communicated via a video in WoW, but in FFXIV a metric ton would be lost.
This might work for WoW, but from what I've seen WoW doesn't have nearly as much of a story going on. What you need to know to appreciate things, "can," be communicated via a video in WoW, but in FFXIV a metric ton would be lost.
Haha, I was just giving you a hard time. I know how amazing SMN are right now, so no offense taken at all.
Stationary fights are definitely preferred for BLM [here's hoping there's at least one in Alexander], and we definitely have an insane amount of burst. Honestly, it's difficult not to pull aggro in my dungeons with Raging/Quelling Strikes, Ley Lines, Enochian, and Fire IV spam [with a Convert thrown in for even more Fire IV]. But then, that could be dependent on the tank I'm paired with.
Cast DoTs, Bane, Painflare, why is everything orange already
Yeah, none of that matters. This is an MMO meant to generate revenue. They aren't going to make people go through 2.0 all the way through 3.xx just to jump into the meat of 4.0. 2.0 to 2.55 was a "manageable" chunk but even that was probably too much. Expacs are meant to draw new players and returning players who were on the fence.
Getting rid of a lot of the filler-fetch quests would take care of a LOT of that. Besides, if they haven't played at all before, then all this content is new to the player anyway. Admittedly they need to do more to get players through this content more quickly, but still.
Wrong mindset, people aren't going to see the cool new expansion trailer for the samurai job and then be happy to go do old 2.0 stuff just because it's new to them. They see that and want to get their hands on it. 2 big storylines and 9-12 patches worth of mini story is just too much for someone to go through before getting into what the cool kids are doing.
No, oddly enough I think it and guildhests are the only ones you dont get law from
Giving access to new jobs earlier is something they needed to do with this expansion, but overall I find your argument a bit weak. Honestly, the jump from fifty to sixty doesn't take all that long, and once you get to sixty there isn't a whole lot to do "except," level other classes, or go after Extreme Primals.
Brand new players that haven't done anything except going from fifty to sixty, probably aren't going to be well suited for tackling extreme primals, (or Alexander, even Normal Mode is initially going to be beyond some of the less experienced players.) So for them there isn't really going to be anything to do at end-game.
Conversely, going from 1 to 50, then 50 to 60, at least gives players "Some," cumulative experience. Plus it pads the game out until 4.1, or 3.1 in the case of Heavensward. By then, there'll be more moderate level activities for players to do at Endgame. That said, if their aim was to pad things out until 3.1, I think they went a bit overboard. Again, they could have easily removed some of the level 50 fetch quests and the like.
This is the right mindset to play assuming if you have a good tank.
If the DPS isn't about to pull aggro then they are a bad DPS.
The more threat=more dps, it shows on the meter. Of course, controlling threat is also a key but you have to keep pressing for that 1% increase in DPS and pressuring the tank to work harder to hold aggro.
That was how I remember raiding in the last decade of WoW.
I would assume FF14 is the same.
The faster thing dies, the less overall stress on everyone.
People have other MMO experience. FFXIV isn't some new beast at all. If you've played any MMO semi-competently in the past 5 years then you have enough experience to do pretty much any of the high level stuff that this game has to offer. There's a reason MMOs start adding boosts to level cap once they are 2-3 expacs in. That long term MMO money comes from players who want the end game. The story is here and the focus will probably always be on story but it's an MMO first and foremost so they have to cater to that MMO idea.
FFXIV attracts a LOT of people new to the genre, in part because of the Final Fantasy name, and in part because it's one of the few MMO's on a console.
For the former, story is VERY important. FF fans lurve a good storyline.
irfaanator
Banned
time to make me all the sets jayhawk
Altered Juice
Member
yoshi p just took a shit on players saying that mch dps is low
http://www.jeuxonline.info/actualit...sive-naoki-yoshida-jeuxonline-japan-expo-2015
"get good"
http://www.jeuxonline.info/actualit...sive-naoki-yoshida-jeuxonline-japan-expo-2015
"get good"
I agree.
After playing for 3 weeks to level/grind from 50-60 and getting gear. There were so many 2yrs+ FF14 vets that can't do basic mechanic or DPS correctly.
There was no point for this cockblocking ARR===>Heavensward doing useless contents.
I spent 3 days doing MQS before I even entered Ishgard and the end result was the same.
I learned my class within hours and FF14 didn't teach me anything since MMO contents are always the same.
There was no point in leveling from 1-60 or experience this great story arc to learn how to play FF14.
If you play one MMO, you pretty much experience everything the MMO genre has to offer.
And if they do this for 4.0 and the next expansion...they are fucking crazy.
The story can be summarized in the journal, stop forcing new players to experience something that don't want to.
They will miss the rush of leveling 60-70, missing new expansion contents, and wasting 100hrs to do 1-60 MSQ contents while everyone will enjoy the new stuff.
So, what do we actually know about Alexander? What ilvl is normal mode going to drop? How many wings/bosses are going to be open on day one?
I remember reading somewhere that Yoshi-P wanted to deal with bad players getting butthurt about missing Coil lore by making future raid dungeons easier. Do we know how hard this version of Alex is going to be?
I remember reading somewhere that Yoshi-P wanted to deal with bad players getting butthurt about missing Coil lore by making future raid dungeons easier. Do we know how hard this version of Alex is going to be?
The, "journal"
Really!? You realize that the journal at the in shows cutscenes without the context of the things leading up to those cutscenes right?
Also, no not really crazy. If I remember correctly WoW was nearly a decade old before they let people skip content.
We all knew it was coming:
Just gonna sit in the corner shaking my head here. The definition of support class at this point seems to mostly be based on the DPS ceiling, not the mere presence of group utility. They going to revoke Summoner's utility skills? Or is Alex going to be full of forced MP/TP starvation mandating the presence of a support class?
Why add a DPS stance and DPS LB to Bard if you're keeping them as DPS-with-an-asterisk in the best case scenario? Because the gap is often overstated, but it exists, and functioning as support will actively widen it (although this is harder on a bard than a machinist.)
Good news is raid DPS will almost certainly be tuned to account for support DPS being low based on this; the beginning chunk of the interview reads like he was more responding to the initial subBard Machinist numbers, I expect some of the parses we've seen more lately are better in-line with where he thinks machinist should be.
Just gonna sit in the corner shaking my head here. The definition of support class at this point seems to mostly be based on the DPS ceiling, not the mere presence of group utility. They going to revoke Summoner's utility skills? Or is Alex going to be full of forced MP/TP starvation mandating the presence of a support class?
Why add a DPS stance and DPS LB to Bard if you're keeping them as DPS-with-an-asterisk in the best case scenario? Because the gap is often overstated, but it exists, and functioning as support will actively widen it (although this is harder on a bard than a machinist.)
Good news is raid DPS will almost certainly be tuned to account for support DPS being low based on this; the beginning chunk of the interview reads like he was more responding to the initial subBard Machinist numbers, I expect some of the parses we've seen more lately are better in-line with where he thinks machinist should be.
Tragicomedy
Member
Thanks for all the answers last page. Sounds like I'm on the right track with gladiator to 30. I'm happy that conjuror is a sub class for paladin, since white mage is the other class that most interests me. I always tank and heal in mmos, so after settling on a tank class I'm planning on leveling a white mage healer.
All this depends on one key issue: does the controller make tanking and healing an uphill battle? I'd rather not go the wireless kb/m approach, since I picked this up specifically to sit back with my controller on the couch. I would've purchased on my PC otherwise.
Can I just ignore most crafting and level up gathering skills to sell the mats? That's my normal approach.
All this depends on one key issue: does the controller make tanking and healing an uphill battle? I'd rather not go the wireless kb/m approach, since I picked this up specifically to sit back with my controller on the couch. I would've purchased on my PC otherwise.
Can I just ignore most crafting and level up gathering skills to sell the mats? That's my normal approach.
That's super old!
WoW is an older game that had no competition for a long time. Of course, they waited awhile before boosting players and letting you skip things, where were others going to go? FFXI? lol
Altered Juice
Member
i was reading an article yesterday where he said alex normal was about final coil difficulty, i'll see if i can fetch it.
also
irfaanator
Banned
just listened to the alexander trailer music. man was that terrible
Wow, that Inverness style greatcoat being worn by the MCH at 1:04... I need that in my life. Anyone know the name of that number?
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
yoshi p just took a shit on players saying that mch dps is low
http://www.jeuxonline.info/actualit...sive-naoki-yoshida-jeuxonline-japan-expo-2015
"get good"
This didn't sound as much "Get Good" as we are getting conflicting reports from players and internal testers so we are looking into it. More of a "it's been a couple weeks, chill out while we figure out what to do."
Uh, you definitely didn't need to do any of the prior expansion's content to do the new stuff in WoW, at least when I played. When I came back in WotLK I just botted a dude to 70 and then quested through Northrend without having to do any of the Outworld stuff.
I guess the big difference is that FFXIV has a mandatory narrative throughline directing you through content, but everything in WoW (at least pre MoP, I didn't play after Cata) was a lot more compartmentalized.
I definitely think giving players the option of skipping right to 3.0 content as long as they have a 50 is fine. I have plenty of "cutscene skipper" friends who quit before 2.1 and got mad at having to do five hours of escape mashing.
Ah no?
WoW has never blocked you from their expansion.
You jump from WoW: Vanilla to WoW: BC with no problem.
You didn't kill Illidian? Meh who cares, we hope you enjoy our Lich King story arc instead.
Even in Vanilla, you don't like useless contents? Well, you can skip everything and do Naxx instead for the next tier. Enjoy guys!
And for the journal, if you want context then tell FF14 devs to add context.
Or if the devs are lazy, just tell them to go to their fansites and read up the story.
This is easier to get and keep retention rate higher with new players than blocking out the expansion.
Honestly...Do you want FF14 to fail or something?
You want brand new players to go through hell with 1.0=====>4.0 stuff for the next expansion?
By the time they finish 3.0 stuff, 4.0 stuff will be on farmed and onto the next patch of new contents.
It's weird, because FFXIV does a lot to respect player's time. Roulettes help queues, you can teleport to wherever you want to go, you can DF into dungeons, you can put all your alt classes on one character so you don't need to re-attune to old content etc.
Forcing players to sit through hours of story to get to the newest, most exciting, content in their game seems at odds with their "don't treat players like shit" philosophy.
Altered Juice
Member
So let me get this straight, you're saying that you play one MMO, you've played them all, so why make players go through the story, which is a thing that differentiates FFXIV from others, as it is "useless content"
Sorry, but that sounds like you're missing the point of a Final Fantasy MMO. It is precisely about a "strong" narrative focus, creating a world that players can get immersed in, and indeed, giving a heck of fan service to long time fans of the series with homages throughout.
Really don't know why anyone would play FFXIV over any other MMO if you just gutted that aspect out.
They can make next expansions not tied to the previous storyline.The storylines of Chains of Promathia, Aht Urghan and Wings of the Godesss FFXI expansions worked like that, and trust me the story didn't suffer a bit (a lot of people consider Chains of Promathia one of the best stories in FF). There's still nods that you'll understand better if you played the other expansions, but its a full package without them too.
"The difficulty of alexander normal will fall somewhere between falling asleep on your keyboard and gouging out your own eyes with toothpicks."
BREAKING NEWS: The gear that alex normal drops will be somewhere between ilvl 36 and ilvl 742.
Yeah ... most the other DPS all offer at least comparable offensive/defensive support really than Bard/Machinist do. It's really just resource regeneration and they get punished doubly for it so not sure I get their design goal here. The premium on MP/TP to them is weird to me.
That said, it does seem to be a case of "We expect them to be lower so we'll investigate things" is being said. We'll see.
It most definitely had competition before WoD. I don't think lack of competition was the reason it let players skip to X point.
To be clear, "eventually," they'll need to let players skip ahead, when the amount of previous content becomes an unreasonable amount of content to grind through, even with the removal of filler. By 4.0, I don't think FFXIV will be there. There's a LOT of filler fetch quests in the 2.0 story quest, I bet you anything the length of 2.0 could be cut down to -25 hours. 2.1-2.55 could be cut down to 10-15 hours, 3.0 could also be cut down significantly with the removal of filler.
None of that seems unreasonable to me, given that large portions of that would be dungeons and trails. Now, post 4.0, they'll probably need to give people an option to skip, seeing as cumulatively the storylines will be nearing 100 hours even with all the filler quests removed.
That's still several years off however.
I rather doubt they'll be done with the Ascian/Zodiark storyline by the end of 3.X. Kinda hard to make the storyline stand alone until they reach that point.
You're still ignoring the point that WoW never, at any time, gated new players from using expansion stuff. Nor does any MMO that I've played for that matter. Don't want to sound like a WoW fanboy, I hate WoW.
Maybe but after all the whining, I can see them letting people do the next expansion/story stuff without completing 3.x stuff. If they do though, I hope they add something (into the inn or even onto youtube or something) that tells you the story from 2.0 - 4.0. (or even 1.0s story stuff to 4.0).
At the very least then, if they wish to skip everything, they can still get some story context.
Hi, I played on-and-off through all of 2.0, did basically every piece of non crafter/gatherer content in the game, and aside from Hildebrand stuff I skipped literally every cutscene I could.
People play games for all sorts of reasons. Not everyone who plays FFXIV gives a shit about the narrative. You know how butthurt people got when they thought Twintania was going to be a PvP reward, because to them it was like something neat was locked behind content they had absolutely no interest in doing? Gating HW stuff behind hours of story quests is kind of like that, except instead of a cool mount it's the entirety of the content of the $40 expansion they just bought.
If you like FFXIV's story and you wish everyone would play it and enjoy it as much as you, that's fine. But there's nothing defensible about the position of "This is a FINAL FANTASY GAME! You're going to play your main story questline and like it you piece of shit."
Yes they did, it was just a level gate instead of a story gate. The only difference is that a story gate requires the completion of handful of extra content.
Given that it would have made absolutely zero sense to end up in Ishgard without having first gone through the events in 2.1-.2.55, I can support people needing to go through that little bit of extra content.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Let's be honest here, FFXIV has more than a handful of post 50 content before HW. I quit during second coil and had around 10 hours of story to catch up on (skipping cutscenes).
FFXIV really needs to have something in place where once you hit 50, you can get a recap and move forward. They made a bad decision this expansion and it looks like they are learning from the player feedback. I expect something more streamlined for 4.0.
Your game would be bankrupt fairly quickly then. Not everyone needs to play the game just like you do, trust me, there are some people who gain nothing new by having to do 40 hours of fetch quests, clicking, and escape keying everything. MMOs are about options.