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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT2| RIP Bowmage 2015-2017.

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ebil

Member
I feel like my post history over the past eight billion years would prove out that I am *heavily* pro iLevel catch-up mechanics. The deviation here isn't muh i275, it's why do we even have i280 when i275 would already have been a substantial upgrade for the group that doesn't raid? Literally why 280 short of trying to snag raiders into Diadem.
The answer is in your post. This game's content is all about bribing players to run the newest thing. They want A12s raiders and relic heroes alike to keep the treadmill running.

People are getting mad at ilv 280 weapons, I'm personally a bit sad that Dun Scaith has been rendered completely obsolete (for its target audience) after mere weeks. In hindsight, it's now easy to understand why they chose to put Proto-Ultima as a trash mob in Dun Scaith of all things, they were planning to nuke it anyway.

It honestly does not bode super well for 4.0's content structure if they're still willing to waste their content without putting any thought behind it.
 

studyguy

Member
Same shit happened post 2.0 fam.

No one should be surprised they're throwing us overpowered RNG items a few months before the expac when they did the same before. Worrying about what your content balance is before everything is rendered obsolete is nonsense. No one is going to care in a few months time.
 

ebil

Member
Same shit happened post 2.0 fam.

No one should be surprised they're throwing us overpowered RNG items a few months before the expac when they did the same before. Worrying about what your content balance is before everything is rendered obsolete is nonsense. No one is going to care in a few months time.
Same shit happening in 2.0 is not an excuse when everyone hoped that 3.0 would fix it and when it didn't. They're proving time and again that they just can't do a coherent content progression and that they're willing to throw it under the bus for the sake of the gear treadmill. My point is they're not learning.

I'm not even surprised (and I ultimately don't care for gear at all so I'm not salty either), I called it weeks ago.
 
Your raid leader is uninformed and probably isn't in the group affected by this change.
People defending this most vehemently are mediocre raiders who have gray to green performance and not even the entire tier closed. Every single time.
But hey, it doesn't affect him, so fuck whoever complains right?

Getting some deja vu from this post for some reason.
 

iammeiam

Member
The answer is in your post. This game's content is all about bribing players to run the newest thing. They want A12s raiders and relic heroes alike to keep the treadmill running.

Which is about where I ended up, but a lot of discussion around things is just "lol salty elitists don't want casuals having good weapons" when the crux of the problem is that this stuff is hitting the way it is because they're targeting raiders. It's not 280 because they want to give casuals something cool, it's 280 as bait for the .00000000008% or whatever. Nobody I know is salty that our Alex weapons are inferior to what casual players can get, because relic already did that. None of the actually snobby elitists I know and argue with regularly care that non-raiders can get cool weapons. If they didn't work in Savage this would be a non-issue. It's mostly just people frustrated and the unpredictable swerve at the tail end of the content that is the way it is specifically to target raiders. People annoyed that they rushed into relics for a last shot at BiS padding during the casual raid tier only to have the game change. I don't think this reaction happens if the weapons had hit alongside Echo. you still have relic salt probably because that's a lot of wasted time and effort, but relic isn't really usually lumped into elitism.

People are getting mad at ilv 280 weapons, I'm personally a bit sad that Dun Scaith has been rendered completely obsolete (for its target audience) after mere weeks. In hindsight, it's now easy to understand why they chose to put Proto-Ultima as a trash mob in Dun Scaith of all things, they were planning to nuke it anyway.

It honestly does not bode super well for 4.0's content structure if they're still willing to waste their content without putting any thought behind it.

I spent a lot of 3.1 demanding to know why they didn't put gobdip in Void Ark. the lack of gobdip in Dun Scaith initially seemed like a stall tactic and now just seems bizarre. Most of their big weapon iLevel decisions have worked out to be strange. The 210 relic shouldn't have been held off as long as it was and they shouldn't have wasted a tier protecting the sanctity of Gordian weapons when the game was struggling. Gear progression has kind of had a general theme all expansion but they've struggled with weapons, and the final move is just.... oookayyyy.


Same shit happened post 2.0 fam.

No one should be surprised they're throwing us overpowered RNG items a few months before the expac when they did the same before. Worrying about what your content balance is before everything is rendered obsolete is nonsense. No one is going to care in a few months time.

I'm drawing a blank on i140 weapons in the runup to HW.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Not only are you competing with RNG stats, you're competing with RNG looks for the i280 weapons, also. Don't underestimate the lengths folks will go through to get that nice looking weapon with the decent stats.
 

studyguy

Member
maybe I'm thinking of post gordias, at some point we got 'this is better than raid gear' content in diadem, but either way.
3 months to expac. The salt over this is feeding me.

If you've cleared A12 and all the content then what are you mad about? Shit my fflogs are fucked now? Treadmill mmo is gonna treadmill, the people angry over SE catering to casuals apparently haven't paid attention to what they've been doing pretty much this entire expansion. What did people expect to happen? Just have casuals try and suffer A12 for the next 3 months when historically no one does endgame raids beyond a very select few? Come on.
 
Don't underestimate the lengths folks will go through to get that nice looking weapon with the decent stats.
This is kind of hilarious in hindsight when you think about the salt people were having about some i270 weapons looking like utter shit
maybe I'm thinking of post gordias, at some point we got 'this is better than raid gear' content in diadem, but either way.
3 months to expac. The salt over this is feeding me.
That was just Gordias since Diadem was released early on the tier's life.

Either way, no weapons back then.
 

ebil

Member
Oh man, I'm so happy I bowed out of the relic nonsense and did one super casually. I would have been pissed if it was anything meaningful for me.

Not only are you competing with RNG stats, you're competing with RNG looks for the i280 weapons, also. Don't underestimate the lengths folks will go through to get that nice looking weapon with the decent stats.
but they're not even new, they're pvp weapon reskins
 

Wilsongt

Member
This is kind of hilarious in hindsight when you think about the salt people were having about some i270 weapons looking like utter shit

There were people who turned down decent gear in diadem 1.0 because it didn't have the glamour they wanted.

"Amazing stats but not a blue dyed High Allagan Robe of Healing? Straight to the ground."
 

iammeiam

Member
maybe I'm thinking of post gordias, at some point we got 'this is better than raid gear' content in diadem, but either way.
3 months to expac. The salt over this is feeding me.

If you've cleared A12 and all the content then what are you mad about? Shit my fflogs are fucked now? Treadmill mmo is gonna treadmill, the people angry over SE catering to casuals apparently haven't paid attention to what they've been doing pretty much this entire expansion. What did people expect to happen? Just have casuals try and suffer A12 for the next 3 months when historically no one does endgame raids beyond a very select few? Come on.

I am running out of ways to say that the only people pretending casuals getting weapons is a problem are the people wanting to criticize elitists. Nobody cares that casuals can get better than raid weapons because that already happened two weeks ago.

The trying to optimize things post BiS got a quick shot to the head earlier than planned because they decided to dump weapons into Diadem aimed at enticing raiders. That's unfortunate. Yes, there's a new expansion in three months. None of this will matter then. That doesn't make it not unfortunate that people lost out on a month of Stuff To Do because the dev team decided to try to bait them into the revamp of the thing that flamed out the last time they lured people in with OP gear. The second i280 was datamined people began gleefully hypothesizing about how elitists would lose their shit over casuals getting good weapons, but that's not happening en massee because by and large nobody cares about what impact 280 is going to have outside of Savage fluff runs or speedkills. People care about the impact it has on what they were planning to do with their existent gametime. The shade tossed at people who ground relic forever is also unfortunate.

I'm mildly disappointed at the shift in the raid meta coming when it did for no real benefit, but most of my salt stems from a playerbase so obsessed with shaming the elitists that the conversation keeps turning to the invisible boogeyman raider who doesn't want casuals to get good weapons.
 

studyguy

Member
What were people trying to realistically do in what was already end of life patches that this somehow so badly throws their plans astray?

If you haven't completed your relic, you can certainly still do it.
If you haven't completed raids, you can certainly still do it.
I'm still running 2.0 content to get my gathering classes relevant to even basic 3.0 content.

Seems more like people are angry SE threw somet meaningless RNG content in to cover a few months of time even if it will only probably last a few weeks tops.

I can't give less of a fuck about hurt feelings feelings or whatever over telling people to get over content being added. If you don't like diadem, don't run it. If you're salty that people are shitposting about having gear equal or better than raiding gear then I don't know what to tell those people. There definitely are people who are vocal in their anger about being able to faceroll content to an i280 so I'm not going to act like it isn't relevant to the discussion either.

If you feel diadem has killed motivation for playing the game then that's on you, not anyone else.
 

Chille

Member
As a person with 275 relic I am happy I got something to aim for now with this new weapon, hope they find a way in the future to allow people to get best in slot gear without doing savage crap
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Historically majority of the 10 million people who purchased ARR never made it past level 35.
Historically only 5% of players at most own a house or have rights to anything important in a house, yet it keeps being an important enough feature in every presentation.
Can this "it's just a minority" thing stop already?

And somehow just saying the word "salt" doesn't absolve you of the fact that you're being salty that some people find faults with the game.
The argument "Well you're just a minority for this business so shut up and take it" is baffling and would be outright harmful if applied to any real life issue, so what gives, even.
 
I think we should focus less on weapons that largely don't matter and more on the fact that the content is a lazy revamp of the previous iteration which they admited was a failure, scrapped it and wasted dev time and resources on. That's what's disappointing, and is not a good sign for what they're going to do with Stormblood content.
 

Wilsongt

Member
I think we should focus less on weapons that largely don't matter and more on the fact that the content is a lazy revamp of the previous iteration which they admited was a failure, scrapped it and wasted dev time and resources on. That's what's disappointing, and is not a good sign for what they're going to do with Stormblood content.

All dungeons in 4.0 will just be recolor and reskinned Cutter's Cry.

Pack it up. Ded gaeme
 

iammeiam

Member
What were people trying to realistically do in what was already end of life patches that somehow so badly throws their plans astray?

If you haven't completed your relic, you can certainly still do it.
If you haven't completed raids, you can certainly still do it.
I'm still running 2.0 content to even get my gathering classes relevant to even basic 3.0 content.

Seems more like people are angry SE threw something meaningless RNG content in to cover a few months of time even if it will only probably last a few weeks tops.

They blew up BiS. It no longer exists. Anybody who was planning to wind down the last month of raids with fluff runs/speed kills/etc at BiS had that obliterated because the stat swing potential is huge. Group speedkills will now be at the mercy of Diadem RNG. If you're in a group that wanted to do anything involving that--regardless of absolute skill level and whether you were cracking top1000 or 500 or 100 or 50--it just got exploded. This has been discussed repeatedly in this thread and tossed aside for "no really you just don't like casuals."

If the weapons were 275 with less broken secondary budgets, this is a smaller issue because the BiS imbalance is smaller. If they hit alongside echo it's a non-issue because it's all invalid at that point anyway. If they were reliably attainable with static secondaries so actual BiS parity could be attainable for reset rankings, it's a non issue. If they magically materialized in everyone's inventory but didn't work in Savage, it's a non issue. The route they picked is basically going to make them common enough to skew any rankings going forward, while imposing a grind and scarcity that is going to prevent equilibrium reestablishing before Echo, for no real tangible gain.

It is, again, not world ending or game killing in and of itself. It is a real, measurable loss for a portion of the endgame community, which sucks. watching conversation cycle between lol elitists/omfg it's almost expansion who cares about iLevel even/this basically happened before except for when it didn't/there is no way this could possibly impact anything anyone actually does/srsly have I told you about the elitsists always trying to keep the common man down is just frustrating. It's not the end of the world, but it's a bummer for reasons totally unrelated to the same old manufactured war between srs raiders and innocent casuals.
 

Edzi

Member
lol, when this thread starts talking about patches every post goes right over my head. I have no clue what anyone is talking about.
 
lol, when this thread starts talking about patches every post goes right over my head. I have no clue what anyone is talking about.

Don't worry about it.

All of this stuff doesn't matter to the casual players (like me).

hsirLLB.jpg
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
The outrage over weapons masks the real issue.
This repackaged Diadem is still trash content with awful mechanics and is basically sapping any kind of fun or enjoyment.
They just replaced rolling on trash gear with Accursed Hoard RNG and farming NMs with farming FATEs.

They didn't really do anything about gatherers - Matron and Fury split only affects missions you get and still puts you into the same instance so once that's done you can switch to whatever to your party's dismay.
EMs, the scene of the crime, are just luck. I spent four hours in the instances after the release and didn't see it once. It doesn't care about what you do, it's just sheer luck to come across one.
The zone still looks utterly uninteresting, it's a few rocks across vast expanses of nothing, where you kill innocent wildlife. Some heroes of light and justice.
Farming for loot crates is mostly inefficient so people are gonna wind up AFKing at the exchange spot, or gathering, and chances are if you do want to farm the world below anyway half your party will not join you (I know I won't).
Instead of challenging content being the main dish and everything else being random bonus games you come across, the main task is easy padding and "difficult", rewarding stuff is random.
Emergency Mission is basically just one fight. Once again exploratory missions lack anything resembling exploration.

It's no different from Diadem 1.0, and that one was boring too and a part of why some of decisions in this expansion turned people away. If this was a sloppy misstep at the end of a brilliant expansion, people wouldn't really be upset as much, but like... Last week we had Custom Deliveries. Those last all of 10 minutes. Proto Ultima. A huge disappointment played up in promotion. Before that, Zurvan, a fairly lame and surprisingly easy fight. The quality AND quantity of content has gone down. Coupled with dubious comments about changes to game system coming into the expansion it makes me think thrice before buying the next outing for Yoshi's game.
 

studyguy

Member
I'm surprised people expected diadem to be something completely new. Was there indication that id' be somehow more than just facerolling? Even at fanfest it seemed like that'd be the case from the info release.

Personally I thought they'd change proto-ultima from fanfest at the very least, but apparently the faceroll there was it.

Should have thrown us a bone with that Ozoma savage mode they were talking about at Vegas Fanfest.
 
I wouldn't mind if they experimented more with some stuff that's not just your standard dungeon or trial.

I don't know if they can pull it off though.

Where is my PSO2 x XIV event SE?
We gave them something, where are my photon weapons?

Seems like other games tend to get the stuff in these promotions.

We got Yokai Watch stuff and a DQ hat I think.

Other than that, I can't think of anything that's not from another FF game.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
These weapons feel like they should be called "Yoshi's Revenge." After last fan fest, his disdain for raiding community is pretty clear.
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
I wouldn't mind if they experimented more with some stuff that's not just your standard dungeon or trial.

I don't know if they can pull it off though.



Seems like other games tend to get the stuff in these promotions.

We got Yokai Watch stuff and a DQ hat I think.

Other than that, I can't think of anything that's not from another FF game.

The GARO stuff is from a Japanese TV series.
 

Ketsen

Member
Catching up to this after waking up and I'm still not sure if I time traveled back to when hunts were introduced. Something something FFLogs something speedrunning only thing to do (isn't Diadem technically a thing to do)

Again, it's the end of a cycle and having a bit of fun before we use all this gear as seal/desynth fodder isn't going to cause the end of the world
again
. The vocal minority will yell at the clouds for a bit, continue playing anyway (or cancel for a few months and come back in June), then the cycle will repeat with something new and unexpected in Stormblood as per tradition. And if they wanted to use this Diadem as a test for Eureka, this was probably the perfect way to get as many different types of people trying it to see how they'd need to adjust when it's not something that's at the tail end of an expansion.

Plus it's fun and has space dinosaurs and mystery boxes! \o/
 

Seraphis Cain

bad gameplay lol
Right now I'm pretty fine with Diadem since I got some nice 265 arms for my BRD, the closest equivalent of which would have taken a week+ of scripture farming to get (keep in mind I'm only i238 right now, only came back to the game a bit over a month ago, so easy 265 gear is very welcome in my book).

Plus it's got a fairly easy to get flying mount as well, so that's nice too.
 

studyguy

Member
XIV written by Yoko Taro, Hauchefart is revived only to become some kind of cannibal who eats Tataru. Minfillia comes back in skimpier clothes to end the world.
 

iammeiam

Member
Is the Yoko Taro plot twist that I tripped into an alternate timeline where I wasn't one of GAF's most annoying proponents for poverty upgrade items during HuntGate? Gear equalization is fantastic.


Seriously though give me an Emil mask SE. Do it.
 

studyguy

Member
WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO HER

It's okay she comes back in the second act with heavy innuendos to lewd things with a corpse or something. Idk whatever the general Yoko Taro bit goes.



Anyway all this aside. Diadem will always suck forever. SE still can't balance out things. Delete MNK. Dedgaem.

Where are our UI mods?
 

yaffi

Member
You know, these are pretty heavy spoilers for some of the new people in here (for those who care for the story anyway).
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
Is the Yoko Taro plot twist that I tripped into an alternate timeline where I wasn't one of GAF's most annoying proponents for poverty upgrade items during HuntGate? Gear equalization is fantastic.


Seriously though give me an Emil mask SE. Do it.

You'll get a Caim smiling mask and like it.
 
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